Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Crimson King

jayo26 wrote: »

Zerks would of put one up this morning

Took me way too long to get this

Jayop

spiralism wrote: »

Notably, carrick getting less playing time coincided with a downturn in form. When we were playing him a lot over christmas(close to every game) and winning every match, people were falling all over the place talking about his importance.

We need him tbh.

See, you may well think that but if you actually look at the results they paint a very different picture. Like I told you before Carrick has played in 3 games in the league since new year. The West ham win, and then in the two draws against Liverpool and Hull where he was taken off at half time because we were playing rubbish. He also played in the Hull loss in the cup.

Sorry mate, but the games he's not played in we've been better. Sure when he first came into the side in Autumn he really improved the team but I think Jose was only playing him until he could figure out how not to have to.

bucketybuck

spiralism wrote: »

Notably, carrick getting less playing time coincided with a downturn in form. When we were playing him a lot over christmas(close to every game) and winning every match, people were falling all over the place talking about his importance.

We need him tbh.

Many of our worst performances came with Carrick in the team, why do people so quickly forget this?

Its not even that long ago that we had a whole week of people pointing out that Carrick had long been a liability in big games and various other people denying it. Then come Sunday and the big game against Liverpool Carrick was yet again a liability and hauled off at half time.

You have cause and effect mixed up, we didn't have a downturn in form because of Carrick getting less playing time, Carrick is getting less gametime because our poor form opened Mourinhos eyes to a few things.

DM_7

Hex time

Impressed with Smalling. He could easily have wilted with the injury and public disagreement through the agent/press/Jose.

But he was slotted in well now he is back in the team with others unavailable. 4 clean sheets in a row for him.

Cantona's Collars

Match thread folks: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057706836

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Many of our worst performances came with Carrick in the team, why do people so quickly forget this?

Its not even that long ago that we had a whole week of people pointing out that Carrick had long been a liability in big games and various other people denying it. Then come Sunday and the big game against Liverpool Carrick was yet again a liability and hauled off at half time.

You have cause and effect mixed up, we didn't have a downturn in form because of Carrick getting less playing time, Carrick is getting less gametime because our poor form opened Mourinhos eyes to a few things.

No they did not
Carrick had a poor game against Liverpool and everybody acknowledged it without question. It happens big deal but you tend to ignore that for the agendas you spin.
He also had played excellently in most of the matches he featured in up until that point which you no doubt will deny.
What was learned is that Herrera is actually looking more capable in that position now than he was a couple of months back and he can only improve.
He's more workhorse than play-maker but Pogba and Mata can do that for him and it looks like the system has been tweaked to that effect.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

See, you may well think that but if you actually look at the results they paint a very different picture. Like I told you before Carrick has played in 3 games in the league since new year. The West ham win, and then in the two draws against Liverpool and Hull where he was taken off at half time because we were playing rubbish. He also played in the Hull loss in the cup.

Sorry mate, but the games he's not played in we've been better. Sure when he first came into the side in Autumn he really improved the team but I think Jose was only playing him until he could figure out how not to have to.

I don't agree with some of this Jayop however the above in bold is a more valid argument against why not to play Carrick in the side IMO
And ultimately is what needs to happen for our midfield to work in the future.

bucketybuck

DM_7 wrote: »

Hex time

Impressed with Smalling. He could easily have wilted with the injury and public disagreement through the agent/press/Jose.

But he was slotted in well now he is back in the team with others unavailable. 4 clean sheets in a row for him.

My post from two weeks ago:

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think Smalling is the same as every player ever in that he would look a lot better if he got a run of games.

Smalling is a very good player and people saying he only looked good under Van Gaals defensive play or other such logic were way off the mark.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It happens big deal but you tend to ignore that for the agendas you spin.

Jog on.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Looking ahead, is Herrera good enough to be a starter in a team going for a league championship?

jimmytwotimes 2013

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Looking ahead, is Herrera good enough to be a starter in a team going for a league championship?

He's earned the right in my eyes but with a little bit of trepidation, I had always thought Jose would sign someone to replace Carrick directly this summer.
I'm not so sure now and if Ander finishes the season well enough then I'm not sure why he would.
Unless he uses him in a rotation and or a bench player but don't see how that would help him progress further as a player.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Looking ahead, is Herrera good enough to be a starter in a team going for a league championship?

Absolutely. Not even a question tbh. More than capable of.

adox

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Looking ahead, is Herrera good enough to be a starter in a team going for a league championship?

Both himself and Pogba are if they have a good player behind them to protect the back four.

We dont have that player yet but hopefully in the summer.

adox

sky88 wrote: »

who would be everyones first choice centre back pairing.

im not really sure on it. bailiy for sure is 1st choice for me then i think its a hard choice as rojo and jones were great together and smalling hasnt really done anything wrong in a while.

dont think jones and bailiy would be a good fit together.

Bailly and Smalling.

sReq | uTeK

DM_7 wrote: »

Hex time

Impressed with Smalling. He could easily have wilted with the injury and public disagreement through the agent/press/Jose.

But he was slotted in well now he is back in the team with others unavailable. 4 clean sheets in a row for him.

Plus he seems to be the captain. However that's a role id like Ander to take. He's constantly screaming at others to push up. His tackling and ferocity on the pitch is fantastic to watch.

yabadabado

adox wrote: »

Both himself and Pogba are if they have a good player behind them to protect the back four.

We dont have that player yet but hopefully in the summer.

This .

Buy a DM this summer to compliment both players and we are looking at a very formidable cm trio.

adox

adox wrote: »

Both himself and Pogba are if they have a good player behind them to protect the back four.

We don't have that player yet but hopefully in the summer.

I'd argue Herrera has been fulfilling that role recently tho
If the system has a midfield trio of Herrera , Pogba & either Mata or Miki in behind Ibra then where would another CM go?

"They've spoke to each other more tonight than I think I've spoken to any of my brothers in the last 5 years".

Keano on the Pogbas :pac:

Lovely Bloke

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

what the?

I suspect Nalz posted the wrong link by accident, and what he actually posted is something to do with the WENUS.

EDIT: Seems so, and Lovely Bloke you might be asked to remove that link you quoted if so! Everything alright there Nalz? I have the company secrets on another tab here, I want...

Nalz

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

what the?

oops wrong link!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102648982&postcount=2791

Nalz

Nalz wrote: »

oops wrong link!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102648982&postcount=2791

Ah, I suspected the intended link was one to tell me I was zerkinsin'. Fúck it, I'm doing the Lotto tomorrow.

On topic - I just laughed at Keano's comment, thought that one line was funny and apt for the man. However, he'll grumble at anything that shows a more humane side to the game. If I had have seen Paul Pogba pull out of a challenge with his brother, or treat him any differently in-play, I'd agree. As it is though, Keano is just longing for days gone by.

J. Marston

Read Romero has 6 clean sheets in his last 7 games. Only goal conceded was a penalty against Northampton. Overall, his clean sheet record is very good. Pretty great back-up keeper to have.

RobertKK

There were rumours of United wanting to sign two strikers/forwards this summer about a week ago, I wonder if Zlatan staying or leaving this summer?
A lot of goals to replace if he leaves, and he is up there at 35 going on 36 as still one of the best in Europe.

Griezmann and Belotti?

RobertKK

J. Marston wrote: »

Read Romero has 6 clean sheets in his last 7 games. Only goal conceded was a penalty against Northampton. Overall, his clean sheet record is very good. Pretty great back-up keeper to have.

United have done well with goalkeepers, thanks LVG for giving Romero a chance at United.
The number 1 goalkeeper for Spain and the back up the number 1 for Argentina.

sky88

J. Marston wrote: »

Read Romero has 6 clean sheets in his last 7 games. Only goal conceded was a penalty against Northampton. Overall, his clean sheet record is very good. Pretty great back-up keeper to have.

i think hes actually far too good of a keeper to be back up. i wouldnt be suprised if he leaves after this season

RobertKK

Our back up is better than whichever goalkeeper is the first for City or Liverpool.

I just read that the Dutch Eredivise is losing its one guaranteed CL spot from next season on. The winners of Eredivise will have to go into qualifying rounds for the CL.

On a tribal level, it's great to see Arsenal get hammered 5-1 and go out early in the knock-outs most seasons. Likewise, it'd be great to see City get a thumping against Monaco next week and also get dumped out. More than all of that though, I'd prefer the Premier League to have a Top 4 for the foreseeable future. In order to do that, English teams need to be competing to the latter stages in Europe to keep their UEFA coefficient above the likes of Italy.

This season it's fúcked - Beyond a miracle, Arsenal are out. Leicester are an anomaly but let's assume for the argument that they carry their league form into the CL against Sevilla and get dumped out, Spurs drowned in the group stages. Quite possibly, only one English team will advance beyond the last 16 of the CL this season. And at that, City face a tough test against Monaco to achieve that.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that I support these teams in those matches, but I support and highly enjoy the Premier League and want to see those 4 CL places retained. I know that only 3 are automatic entry to the CL, but the 1 qualifying spot for 4th is as good as automatic for the likes of Arsenal regularly, and us last season.

Cookiemunster

UEFA coefficient doesn't matter any more. From 2018 the top 4 in England, Spain, Italy and Germany go straight into the group stages.

Delboy5

stankratz wrote: »

I just read that the Dutch Eredivise is losing its one guaranteed CL spot from next season on. The winners of Eredivise will have to go into qualifying rounds for the CL.

On a tribal level, it's great to see Arsenal get hammered 5-1 and go out early in the knock-outs most seasons. Likewise, it'd be great to see City get a thumping against Monaco next week and also get dumped out. More than all of that though, I'd prefer the Premier League to have a Top 4 for the foreseeable future. In order to do that, English teams need to be competing to the latter stages in Europe to keep their UEFA coefficient above the likes of Italy.

This season it's fúcked - Beyond a miracle, Arsenal are out. Leicester are an anomaly but let's assume for the argument that they carry their league form into the CL against Sevilla and get dumped out, Spurs drowned in the group stages. Quite possibly, only one English team will advance beyond the last 16 of the CL this season. And at that, City face a tough test against Monaco to achieve that.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that I support these teams in those matches, but I support and highly enjoy the Premier League and want to see those 4 CL places retained. I know that only 3 are automatic entry to the CL, but the 1 qualifying spot for 4th is as good as automatic for the likes of Arsenal regularly, and us last season.

I think i read somewhere recently that UEFA is now granting 4 places in the CL to the top4 leagues in Europe, which is now Spain, Germany, England and also Italy!

So 4th CL spot is no longer in doubt.....

adox

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'd argue Herrera has been fulfilling that role recently tho
If the system has a midfield trio of Herrera , Pogba & either Mata or Miki in behind Ibra then where would another CM go?

Mata or Miki playing from the right and allowed to drift.

I don't think Herrera is good enough to play the deeper role. Pogbas talents have to be indulged if you are going to play him and so you need at least one very good and disciplined defensive midfielder to play with him as well as a player like Herrera.

I still think ultimately Pogba could be coached into a proper all round midfielder but his undoubted talents seem to be getting indulged over his discipline. If we are going down that route, he can only play in a three. Herrera can only play in a three as well.

It's such a shame we don't have any "proper" midfielders on the books. Carrick is still probably the closest we have.

bucketybuck

stankratz wrote: »

I just read that the Dutch Eredivise is losing its one guaranteed CL spot from next season on. The winners of Eredivise will have to go into qualifying rounds for the CL.

I think thats a real shame and I hate the way the champions league has devalued the European cup. There used to be glamour and mystic in the European cup and storied clubs such as Ajax were very much a part of that, now they and many other once famous clubs are just marginalised in favour of the same mega-rich clubs who are very close to achieving a closed shop.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think thats a real shame and I hate the way the champions league has devalued the European cup. There used to be glamour and mystic in the European cup and storied clubs such as Ajax were very much a part of that, now they and many other once famous clubs are just marginalised in favour of the same mega-rich clubs who are very close to achieving a closed shop.

There's no argument IMO, it has been devalued. I remember late last season when it looked like United might get 4th, I thought "Great, but if this United team can make it into the competition, what does that say about the modern 'Champions' League?" I might have even posted it. We didn't get there in the end, by goal difference. Bearing in mind the kind of football United produced last season, is a team scraping 4th in England more worthy of a place in the CL than the winners in Eredivise? I'm not so sure.

I've seen reasoning elsewhere such as "Yeah well Dutch teams haven't been performing consistently well in Europe for a long time", and that's grand. But then I read that UEFA are giving automatic places to the top 4 teams in England, Spain and Germany from next season on, which suggests it isn't strictly about the football. Is the 4th team in each of those leagues more worthy of an automatic place than the winner of the Eredivise? I'm not so sure.

The Netherlands has produced many all-time great players over the years, and continues to be a great football country producing players for the top leagues. As well as that, it has had a competitive national team more often than not. At the moment the clubs and the national team aren't as competitive as they were, and this is where I feel UEFA are wrong to strip the league of its automatic CL spot.

It seems punitive rather than productive. If this was a move to help the beautiful game, I'd argue that they should leave it as is. That taking away that CL spot further devalues the Dutch league, and maybe takes the attraction away from potential foreign owners and investors who could help Dutch clubs become competitive again.

Anyway, going OT from the thread here, but I was surprised to read that was happening to the Eredivise, and then surprised to read that Top 4 in England will be automatic qualification from next season on. Won't matter to us sure cause United are going to win the league next season, of course. Great for Arsenal though.

bucketybuck

stankratz wrote: »

It seems punitive rather than productive. If this was a move to help the beautiful game, I'd argue that they should leave it as is. That taking away that CL spot further devalues the Dutch league, and maybe takes the attraction away from potential foreign owners and investors who could help Dutch clubs become competitive again.

This is what seems to be obvious to everybody except Uefa. In an exclusive champions only tournament, clubs like Ajax would have retained their prestige over the years, attracted greater investment, been more attractive to top players and the game would have a far greater breadth of top clubs competing at the highest level.

Instead they diluted their product with the result that 20 years later the top players all flock to the same 3/4 clubs, the older clubs are now marginalised to the point of irrelevance and nobody gives a **** about the competition until the final.

Its just a shame is all.

duffman13

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Looking ahead, is Herrera good enough to be a starter in a team going for a league championship?

To be honest if Herrera was more disciplined and reduced his natural tendency to get forward then he might be the DM in that team for the next 5 years. His stats this season are up there with Kante and ahead of him in some cases. Chronically underrated player by most people even myself. He's a top player and his only real issue is getting forward to much leaves out of position a little to often

Jayop

The amount of times he wins the ball back cleanly and gets an attack going in almost the same movement is brilliant. Pure breed terrier.

Jayop

I know I've said it before but I'll say it again, that Arsenal thread is a disgrace. The poor fecks that post here have to not only put up with the state of things going on at their club at the moment, but they can't even vent in peace on here. That lad really should be ran for the greater good, and just staying an inch the right side of a charter shouldn't be enough to stop you getting a perma ban when you are forcing other people to quit.
Hopefully this being posted in here doesn't constitute backseat modding, I'll delete it if so.

duffman13

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is what seems to be obvious to everybody except Uefa. In an exclusive champions only tournament, clubs like Ajax would have retained their prestige over the years, attracted greater investment, been more attractive to top players and the game would have a far greater breadth of top clubs competing at the highest level.

Instead they diluted their product with the result that 20 years later the top players all flock to the same 3/4 clubs, the older clubs are now marginalised to the point of irrelevance and nobody gives a **** about the competition until the final.

Its just a shame is all.

I do understand where you are coming from and agree with how exclusive it was, however the competition was not exactly competitive at the initial stages. Clubs like Portadown and Union Luxembourg gettin hit for 12 or 13 goals over two legs doesnt exactly attract a lot of fans or tv cameras. The competition is not as competitive now as it was in the late 90's or early 90's but there are in my opinion more meaningful games in it now as opposed to last year.

1. Bayern Munich
2. Leicester
3. Barcelona
4. Juventus
5. PSG
6. Celtic
7. TNS
8. Dundalk
9. Benfica
10. PSV
11. Malmo
12. Rosenborg
13. Marieham
14. FC Copenhagen
15. F91 Dudelang
16. Besiktas
17. Club Brugge
18. Olympiacos
19. Legia Warsaw
20. Basel

There is 20 club league champions without getting into the eastern european teams. The level of competition would be shocking if it was back to the old system, the way that football has changed is not crazy, money flows into the bigger leagues and that is not just because of champions league money however I accept it played a part for clubs like Ajax.

You would forget some of the thumpings that took place in the early rounds of that competition. I like it as it is, not perfect but I still enjoy it and have missed it massively as a United fan

duffman13

Jayop wrote: »

I know I've said it before but I'll say it again, that Arsenal thread is a disgrace. The poor fecks that post here have to not only put up with the state of things going on at their club at the moment, but they can't even vent in peace on here. That lad really should be ran for the greater good, and just staying an inch the right side of a charter shouldn't be enough to stop you getting a perma ban when you are forcing other people to quit.
Hopefully this being posted in here doesn't constitute backseat modding, I'll delete it if so.

Ive tried to engage on that thread but its disgraceful the deflecting that goes on in there. It needs reporting all the same but if it was in this thread then id really just hope everyone would have the sense to just put him on ignore

bucketybuck

duffman13 wrote: »

I do understand where you are coming from and agree with how exclusive it was, however the competition was not exactly competitive at the initial stages. Clubs like Portadown and Union Luxembourg gettin hit for 12 or 13 goals over two legs doesnt exactly attract a lot of fans or tv cameras. The competition is not as competitive now as it was in the late 90's or early 90's but there are in my opinion more meaningful games in it now as opposed to last year.

1. Bayern Munich
2. Leicester
3. Barcelona
4. Juventus
5. PSG
6. Celtic
7. TNS
8. Dundalk
9. Benfica
10. PSV
11. Malmo
12. Rosenborg
13. Marieham
14. FC Copenhagen
15. F91 Dudelang
16. Besiktas
17. Club Brugge
18. Olympiacos
19. Legia Warsaw
20. Basel

There is 20 club league champions without getting into the eastern european teams. The level of competition would be shocking if it was back to the old system, the way that football has changed is not crazy, money flows into the bigger leagues and that is not just because of champions league money however I accept it played a part for clubs like Ajax.

You would forget some of the thumpings that took place in the early rounds of that competition. I like it as it is, not perfect but I still enjoy it and have missed it massively as a United fan

There were thumpings, but now instead you have meaningless group games that barely raise even a passing interest. Neither is ideal but more to my original point, you call that level of competition shocking but its only shocking in terms of how far those clubs have fallen, if the present inequality hadn't existed for the past twenty years then perhaps the likes of Celtic, Benfica, Brugge or Warsaw might not be considered so poorly.

This doesn't take into account the real shame either, the fact that if it is champions only then it becomes so much harder to win and means so much more when you do win it.

Anyway, off topic and just my thoughts.

Jayop

duffman13 wrote: »

Ive tried to engage on that thread but its disgraceful the deflecting that goes on in there. It needs reporting all the same but if it was in this thread then id really just hope everyone would have the sense to just put him on ignore

Ignore function on VBulletin forums is absolutely cack.

domrush

Jayop wrote: »

Ignore function on VBulletin forums is absolutely cack.

Can't hack that thread anymore.

How'd ye think Pogba performed further up the pitch as a no. 10 lads? I know it was only St. Etinne but some of his passing was absolutely sublime.

duffman13

domrush wrote: »

Can't hack that thread anymore.

How'd ye think Pogba performed further up the pitch as a no. 10 lads? I know it was only St. Etinne but some of his passing was absolutely sublime.

Well unfortunately big Fellaini played at 10 last night and then Lingard in the second half. Pogba sat beside Herrera, he did well though, his range of passing is incredible, right up there with Scholes.

domrush

duffman13 wrote: »

Well unfortunately big Fellaini played at 10 last night and then Lingard in the second half. Pogba sat beside Herrera, he did well though, his range of passing is incredible, right up there with Scholes.

Was that how it was set up? Thought he was further forward than usual maybe I was imagining it. His lobbing passes are something else.

duffman13

domrush wrote: »

Was that how it was set up? Thought he was further forward than usual maybe I was imagining it. His lobbing passes are something else.

Yeah thats how they lined up. Pogba is a fairly dynamic player so probably more box to box than sitting in beside Herrera but Fellaini and Lingard were definitely in the No.10 role. Yeah his crossfield ball over his brother to Valencia was incredible. Starting to really settle, hopefully he lays of hitting the crossbar and we will be flying

Mars Bar

Pereira has scored for Granada but also been sent off. Think it should have been a yellow. He pushed the other player but the Betis player gave Pereira a smack in the face.

Trigger

Read a good opinion piece on F365 about Pogbas game last night, and well against Watford and Leicester he has been the same, seemed a hell of a lot more disciplined

http://www.football365.com/news/pogba-perfects-the-art-of-disciplined-dynamism

“He’s not there to make the crowd rise every time he touches the ball. I’ve told him that sometimes he needs to play in a neutral way. He’s a midfielder, not a No 10.”

Didier Deschamps may have struggled to curb Paul Pogba’s instinct to be the showman, but the original water-carrier might be a combination of impressed and frustrated should he watch Pogba in his current position, resisting the urge to charge forward at every opportunity but still producing moments to make bums lift off seats.

Whether it’s the inch-perfect ball over the top of the defence to find Juan Mata, the effortless way he dispossessed a Saint-Etienne player on the edge of his own box, the shrugging-off of Jordan Veretout before curling the ball just wide or the towering header that took his ‘woodwork’ total for the season to an infuriating eight, this was a Pogba performance that was somehow simultaneously disciplined but dynamic.

“The last couple of weeks Pogba has been doing this, playing in the Michael Carrick role if you will, controlling and dictating play and he’s done it really well,” said Paul Scholes before the game, but at that stage he was still expecting Marouane Fellaini to play deeper, with Pogba given licence to roam. But Scholes underestimated just how much Jose Mourinho trusts Pogba in this new role; there is a reason why Carrick has not made it beyond half-time in a Premier League match since January 2.


We too readily measure footballers in goals and assists rather the unquantifiables like presence, confidence and class; Pogba is falling short in the areas that are easily defined – leading to preposterous notions like Dele Alli being worth more – but soaring in the unmeasurables. His desire to be on the ball and drive, or float, or simply lay it off in that ‘neutral’ way, demands the attention of the eye. While you watch Fellaini through fingers, you watch Pogba through wide eyes.

Yes, this was Saint-Etienne and yes, Pogba should have scored. Even WhoScored, whose ratings put him third on a list of Premier League players this season, could not mark him higher than half his teammates. His performance oozed class rather than shots on target, intelligence rather than key passes and leadership rather than interceptions. The key part of that sentence is the latter; Pogba is undoubtedly a future captain of Manchester United.

The narrative for this game was Pogba being on the same pitch as his brother, with their mother watching from the stands, but the real story is just how comfortable the Frenchman looks in a withdrawn role alongside Ander Herrera, and how his decision-making belies his age. It’s easy to focus on the big number featuring an 8 and a 9 and forget the 2 and 3 of his age. He is three months younger than Jesse Lingard; let that sink in.

adox

I thought Pogba was really poor in ththe first half and decent in ththe second, no more.

Headshot

adox wrote: »

I thought Pogba was really poor in ththe first half and decent in ththe second, no more.

Man adox, im not sure how you can say that.

Best player on the pitch, controlled the game and was pretty damn great

Flint Fredstone

Yeah I thought Pogba was a cut above everybody last night myself.

Kerrydude1981

Love the way Herrera plays the game,its all or noting with him,a real leader.