Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/832719525711904768

Headshot

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/832719525711904768

id drive him there myself

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Malachians/status/832687403655532544

Dwarf.Shortage

I've made this point before but it bears repeating, at Pogba's age Zidane was playing for Bordeaux in a weak French league and had achieved nothing of note, nobody would question his validity as a world record transfer but at 23 he was a mile behind where Pogba is now. PP has won four Serie A titles at the heart of a strong Juventus side, if he retired tomorrow that would be a fruitful career.

He can be naive and over exuberant at times but he is a f**king top notch footballer and anyone who watches all of our games will have seen that. He's not going to be perfect overnight but history will look kindly on that transfer.

Jayop

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Malachians/status/832687403655532544

That's the ball bag that was saying the other day that Rashford was pissed off with the lack of game time according to his sources. This the player who made his debut less than a year ago and played his 50th game the other night.

Phil Brown is a complete bull****ting idiot and should be given as much credence as goal.com.

adox

Headshot wrote: »

Man adox, im not sure how you can say that.

Best player on the pitch, controlled the game and was pretty damn great

I can honestly say that I haven't seen Pogba control one game since his time st Utd.

I certainly didn't think he was great the other night. He was awful in the first half and decent in the second. Some moments of brilliance in the second half, he was certainly a hell of a lot better than he was in the first.

Pogba may become a player that will contro a game in the coming years but he certainly isn't that player now. He can hugely influence a game of course, he is so hugely talented but he doesn't currently have the game to control one.

Look he's already a hugely important player for Utd but I do think people are getting carried away with his performances and he is getting a bit of a free ride, largely due to some flashes of brilliance in games. For a player playing in the middle of the pitch that's not enough. He needs to do his job as well and too often he isn't doing it.

I don't want to sound like I'm picking on him because I do recognise how important a player he is for us and the talent he has but I do think he is being indulged a bit by the manager and the fans a bit and needs to be told when he isn't doing his job properly as a midfielder, especially with the current personnel there. We just can't indulge him and expect success.

Maybe next season when we have dmf in place behind himself and Herrera he can been forgiven more for his lack of positional discipline but even then I'd still expect more responsibility from him.

As I've said in the past I think he does have the tools to become the complete midfielder and I'd love to see him being pushed in that direction by the club. He would need a lot of coaching to mound him into that player and I'd love to see it happen but there are no signs of it so far and a midfield three seems the future.

Minderbinder

And Pogba doesn't seem to play any better when he is indulged. Thursday night with his brother was just taking the piss at times in terms of indulgence. Hopefully he'll be left in Manchester for the second leg so we don't have to endure another night of that nonsense.

In terms of his season so far I feel he has been very unlucky at times with hitting the post and think he could have had about 5 more goals with a bit of luck.

I don't think we should judge him whether he can control a game or not. He is a free spirit and a brilliant talent so if he is influencing most games with his brilliance that's good enough for me.

DM_7

Thought United were awful in general the other night, let St Etienne have too much influence about how the game would be played. It was frantic. United only got some control after the others ran too much but by then they could easily have scored some away goals.

Midfield was poor all round and I think most good play came through individual skill over team play.

Kirby

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I've made this point before but it bears repeating, at Pogba's age Zidane was playing for Bordeaux in a weak French league and had achieved nothing of note, nobody would question his validity as a world record transfer but at 23 he was a mile behind where Pogba is now. PP has won four Serie A titles at the heart of a strong Juventus side, if he retired tomorrow that would be a fruitful career.

He can be naive and over exuberant at times but he is a f**king top notch footballer and anyone who watches all of our games will have seen that. He's not going to be perfect overnight but history will look kindly on that transfer.

No it wont. Even if Pogba went on to be the greatest ever footballer.....history will still look on with incredulity that you let him go for nothing and then spent 100 million on getting him back. There is no getting away from that. Letting him go was a huge mistake.

To the player himself, personally I think he gets far too much scrutiny. He's had a few poor games but his position and role in the team has changed quite a bit and that doesn't help. If the fee wasn't so high, I think people would be far fairer when analyzing his performances.

duffman13

Kirby wrote: »

No it wont. Even if Pogba went on to be the greatest ever footballer.....history will still look on with incredulity that you let him go for nothing and then spent 100 million on getting him back. There is no getting away from that. Letting him go was a huge mistake.

To the player himself, personally I think he gets far too much scrutiny. He's had a few poor games but his position and role in the team has changed quite a bit and that doesn't help. If the fee wasn't so high, I think people would be far fairer when analyzing his performances.

This is a myth, United wanted to keep him he left for his career. To be fair to Pogba, if I was him and with the benefit of hindsight, id do the exact same thing all over again. I get your point though, no matter the story it will always be "he left for nothing, you paid 90 million to bring him back"

I agree with your second point, any player with a huge fee will be under more scrutiny than others, particularly because he's not a striker so it's harder to quantify his role. Zlatans performances havn't been great but if he's got 22 goals at this stage of the season people look past it

Nalz

Kirby wrote: »

No it wont. Even if Pogba went on to be the greatest ever footballer.....history will still look on with incredulity that you let him go for nothing and then spent 100 million on getting him back. There is no getting away from that. Letting him go was a huge mistake.

I know you're responding to a post regarding history, but I can't understand (a) how people can say how it will be looked upon in years to come and (b) why the hell does it matter?

bucketybuck

Kirby wrote: »

If the fee wasn't so high, I think people would be far fairer when analyzing his performances.

But the fee was that high. Its a simple fact, when analysing the Pogba transfer my opinion remains that the club spent far too much money taking a risk on a player that was far from the finished article, a player who limited our options if we wanted to play him and a player who didn't fit with where the rest of the squad was in its life cycle. Based on its merits the Pogba transfer was a poor decision by the club.

Hopefully he goes on to become a legend, although thats far from certain, but even if he does hindsight won't make the initial purchase a better decision.

Dwarf.Shortage

Nalz wrote: »

I know you're responding to a post regarding history, but I can't understand (a) how people can say how it will be looked upon in years to come and (b) why the hell does it matter?

(a) it's how I believe it will be looked upon in years to come, generally that's the idea of a thread like this, people share and debate their opinions on all things United. If we could only discuss certainties and things that had already happened it would be a fairly boring exercise and (b) it matters because in ten years time if nobody is using the fee as a stick to beat him with well he'd have to have had an absolutely outstanding career with United.

GSPfan

Could there be an credibilty in the story of Rooney going to China?

Cantona's Collars

GSPfan wrote: »

Could there be an credibilty in the story of Rooney going to China?

He likes their food in Wings.

jayo26

GSPfan wrote: »

Could there be an credibilty in the story of Rooney going to China?

Usually not but ducker is the source and the way he has it laid out it dont seem to be the usual pie in the sky story.

RobbingBandit

Not while he is still active for England team, can't see him wanting to fly thousands of miles for international duty, Robbie Keane did it while at LA Galaxy but can't see Rooney doing it.

GSPfan

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Not while he is still active for England team, can't see him wanting to fly thousands of miles for international duty, Robbie Keane did it while at LA Galaxy but can't see Rooney doing it.

Id imagine if he goes to China he has effectively retired himself from international football. Can't see Southgate picking a player playing in China.

The_Kew_Tour

Thought Ducker was good source?

bangkok

Would be crazy to sell Rooney at this stage of the season especially with all the games coming up, he still has a big part to play

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

Would be crazy to sell Rooney at this stage of the season especially with all the games coming up, he still has a big part to play

He's third choice at best in every position he plays, and we are paying him a carrazy amount to be down the pecking order like that. If there's a solid offer, then off with him imo.

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

He's third choice at best in every position he plays, and we are paying him a carrazy amount to be down the pecking order like that. If there's a solid offer, then off with him imo.

If China or whoever are so interested in him now, they would wait til the summer for him too imo.

Whatever position he occupies in the pecking order, we are better off keeping him til the summer considering we can't buy a replacement for him til then, nor recall Pereira til the summer (we may not give Pereira a chance next season either, but if he was brought back and given Rooneys squad place I would be delighted).

I'm always against weakening the squad without an intention or ability to restrengthen it.

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

If there's a solid offer, then off with him imo.

If there is a crazy offer then perhaps its worth letting him go, but if its just a normal, solid offer then its better to keep him I think. We do have a lot of games to play, he still has something to offer, we don't need the money, and we would still find a buyer in the summer anyway.

Its all moot though, I don't think he himself would go.

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

He's third choice at best in every position he plays, and we are paying him a carrazy amount to be down the pecking order like that. If there's a solid offer, then off with him imo.

if ibra gets injured for any period of time we are fu*ked and rooney is the one that would replace him up front, rashford still needs to develop more in the no 9 role and martial is playing excellent out wide. There will be interest in rooney in summer, i wouldnt be in any rush to sell

bangkok

Kirby wrote: »

No it wont. Even if Pogba went on to be the greatest ever footballer.....history will still look on with incredulity that you let him go for nothing and then spent 100 million on getting him back. There is no getting away from that. Letting him go was a huge mistake.

To the player himself, personally I think he gets far too much scrutiny. He's had a few poor games but his position and role in the team has changed quite a bit and that doesn't help. If the fee wasn't so high, I think people would be far fairer when analyzing his performances.

if pogba does go on to be one of the greatest players ever, you mean to tell me some will look back with incredulity? no they wont.

Pogba is already proving why United spent the money on him, 23 years of age, probably the best player in the world in his position already, imagine how good he will be in 2,3,4,5 years time and even then he still wont have reached his peak. Nobody cares about the transfer fee only jealous rival supporters.

Also, we didnt "let him go", you need to check you're facts on that one

jayo26

Wow well done Lincoln that's a great achievement.

Lord TSC

In terms of strikers, I'd put Ibra, Rashford and Martial ahead of Rooney.

In terms of #10, Mata, Mkhi, Pogba...even Fellaini offers more. (and thats presuming we play a #10, which isn't guaranteed any more.)

And the less said about him in midfield, the better.

I personally disagree he offers much any more. For me, the reality is that he doesn't offer much to the team any more, and I think keeping him as a passenger "in case of injuries" isn't a good enough reason to keep him.

He's a very expensive bench warmer at this stage. If I'm thankful to Jose for nothing else, it will be that he managed to get Rooney away from a guaranteed first team spot and barely anyone kicked up a fuss. With his wages, in the summer, you're not going to be getting a massive offer from anyone but China. So if China has a good offer for him now, 20m or so, I'd snap their hands off...

yabadabado

Kirby wrote: »

No it wont. Even if Pogba went on to be the greatest ever footballer.....history will still look on with incredulity that you let him go for nothing and then spent 100 million on getting him back. There is no getting away from that. Letting him go was a huge mistake.

Have you been living under a rock the past couple of years?

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

In terms of strikers, I'd put Ibra, Rashford and Martial ahead of Rooney.

In terms of #10, Mata, Mkhi, Pogba...even Fellaini offers more. (and thats presuming we play a #10, which isn't guaranteed any more.)

And the less said about him in midfield, the better.

I personally disagree he offers much any more. For me, the reality is that he doesn't offer much to the team any more, and I think keeping him as a passenger "in case of injuries" isn't a good enough reason to keep him.

He's a very expensive bench warmer at this stage. If I'm thankful to Jose for nothing else, it will be that he managed to get Rooney away from a guaranteed first team spot and barely anyone kicked up a fuss. With his wages, in the summer, you're not going to be getting a massive offer from anyone but China. So if China has a good offer for him now, 20m or so, I'd snap their hands off...

yea maybe so, but they will still pay the same in the summer and we need all the bodies we have at the moment. he can still chip in with the odd goal when needed

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

and I think keeping him as a passenger "in case of injuries" isn't a good enough reason to keep him.

I think you dismiss this too easily.

Look at our attacking options and then pick whatever two you want to get injured, any two, doesn't matter, and only two injuries would be on the low side in fact.

Then add the fact that we have a serious run of games coming up, a run where it will be vital to rest players at opportune times. A run where we could have 3 games in 6 days or something similar.

You're playing the midweek game, you want to rest the starters from the Sunday game, you are already missing a couple of players, would you not want to have a player of Rooneys ability even on the bench as a backup?

GSPfan

It would be really nice for United to avoid City Chelsea Spurs or Arsenal should all 5 teams get through to the next round. I think that would definitely give us a chance to go on and win it if we could draw Lincoln next and avoid a big match until the semi's.

GSPfan

City have a replay. Would rather them out at this stage as we might end up playing them.

Huddersfield are a hard working decent side but I've no confidence that they'll win the replay.

TheDoctor

City needing a replay means the Rescheduled Manchester derby cant be played till the end of April.

jayo26

Looks like if we are going to make the top four its going to take a massive push on may we will probably be in sixth still coming into may but having a couple games in hand.

J. Marston

TheDoctor wrote: »

City needing a replay means the Rescheduled Manchester derby cant be played till the end of April.

Which could mean 4 of our last 6 games will be against Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and City. Away in 3 of them.

Yikes.

jayo26

J. Marston wrote: »

Which could mean 4 of our last 6 games will be against Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and City. Away in 3 of them.

Yikes.

Imagine the adrenaline tho the end of season would be close and if they do make another two finals the team would be hopping it could go eitherway.

Whatever about the odd game in hand over the course of a season, I'm not a fan of the team having a backlog of them. I'd rather games played with points on the board than having to play catch-up in a higher pressure situation.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

would you not want to have a player of Rooneys ability even on the bench as a backup?

I mean, that presumes I rate his current abilities at all. I completely acknowledge I am very harsh on him, but its got to the stage where I'd worry about playing him even in an injury crisis, as I simply think his presence on the field can often be very negative; he's slow in more ways than one, he loses the ball too easily...if we're going to have a player like that, honestly, I'd rather we just give a kid a chance.

Even the fact you have to put so many conditions on the "what ifs" list...."What if Mars aligns with the moon and a hurricane hits OT and the rules get changed so only left footed players can play at right back..." I just honestly don't trust Rooney on the field any more, feel when he's there, it's more like we only have 10 men on the field, and the sooner he's gone, the better imo.

GSPfan

Id hold a similar opinion on todays Wayne Rooney. Feels like even when he is on the bench he has to be the first player brought on when Id rather bring on Rashford every day of the week now. For me even having him on the bench hinders us. I dont think he offers anything anymore.

And before anyone accuses me of anything you will see ive been a vocal supporter of Rooney for the hypocritical abuse he gets, so I'm a Rooney fan by all accounts and Id still be happy to see him go sooner rather than later.

I won't be holding up a banner though. Jose is managing him out the door quite perfectly. I'm happy with how he has done it so far. Respectful.

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

Even the fact you have to put so many conditions on the "what ifs" list...."What if Mars aligns with the moon and a hurricane hits OT and the rules get changed so only left footed players can play at right back..." I just honestly don't trust Rooney on the field any more, feel when he's there, it's more like we only have 10 men on the field, and the sooner he's gone, the better imo.

Conditions? My only "what if" is what if we get 2 injuries and thats hardly a wacky hypothetical, everything else is simple fact, we are going to be playing games and we will need to use our squad. Trying to discredit my point as you have done is unwarranted.

We will get injuries, we do have a lot of games to play, would it not be better to keep our record scorer as a squad option. There is nothing outlandish in saying that.

RobertKK

Rooney will be gone by the summer at the latest.
Between now and the end of the season, players who are more important in roles that Rooney can play:
Ibrahimovic
Pogba
Mkhitaryan
Martial
Rashford
Mata
Lingard
Fellaini
Herrera

Jose has don a great job of removing Rooney from being seeing as a vital player to the team, though one can argue he should have been dropped far more in recent years, to a player where people would be very surprised if he started a game that is viewed as being anyway important.
Rooney is just a side story, he has the foal record and will always be remembered, but his time is up at United, and one could argue his time was up a few years ago at United.
Jose came in and has taken control of the situation. Rooney was no longer undroppable and many other players have overtaken him in the team in terms of importance.
Lingard, right now for example is a more important player for United than Rooney.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

Conditions? My only "what if" is what if we get 2 injuries and thats hardly a wacky hypothetical, everything else is simple fact, we are going to be playing games and we will need to use our squad. Trying to discredit my point as you have done is unwarranted.

We will get injuries, we do have a lot of games to play, would it not be better to keep our record scorer as a squad option. There is nothing outlandish in saying that.

Your hypothetical is if we lose two players to injury, we have a congested fixture list and Jose decides to rest everyone ahead of Rooney in a given position. I'll concede it's possible.

My belief is this; even in that scenario, such as it is, I still wouldn't want Rooney playing.

I dislike when people hold the "record goalscorer" thing as a reason to hang on to him. it was a great achievement but it was one achieved mainly years ago. He has scored 5 goals this season, only 2 in the league which imo is a pretty pathetic return for someone on his wages, with the supposed stature he apparently has.

For me, at any position, I'd rather jam someone out of position than play him. If we're talking striker, you have Ibra, Rashford and Martial. In the results of injuries or whatever, I'd rather Mkhi or Pogba go up front than Rooney, such is my lack of faith in his current abilities.

yabadabado

With people mentioning Rooney leaving now/summer who else do ye reckon will be moved on?
Rooney,Basti,Darmian would be the 3 I would think are certs and maybe Young and Carrick if they want moves.

Cantona's Collars

Lord TSC wrote: »

Your hypothetical is if we lose two players to injury, we have a congested fixture list and Jose decides to rest everyone ahead of Rooney in a given position. I'll concede it's possible.

My belief is this; even in that scenario, such as it is, I still wouldn't want Rooney playing.

I dislike when people hold the "record goalscorer" thing as a reason to hang on to him. it was a great achievement but it was one achieved mainly years ago. He has scored 5 goals this season, only 2 in the league which imo is a pretty pathetic return for someone on his wages, with the supposed stature he apparently has.

For me, at any position, I'd rather jam someone out of position than play him. If we're talking striker, you have Ibra, Rashford and Martial. In the results of injuries or whatever, I'd rather Mkhi or Pogba go up front than Rooney, such is my lack of faith in his current abilities.

Saw Griezmanns assist today,there's no way in hell Rooney could do that these days.LVG's slow,pass pass and pass again game suited him as it required little effort on his part. Our game under Jose requires more pace and this counts Rooney out as his touch,passing and vision have worsened with each passing season.
People may point at Zlatan for lack of pace but he's not slow and has scored 23 goals so far this season.Mata makes up for a lack of pace with vision and clever passing.We aren't missing Rooney and even if half the team are out we have better options.De Gea would probably do a better job outfield at this stage.

Lord TSC

yabadabado wrote: »

With people mentioning Rooney leaving now/summer who else do ye reckon will be moved on?
Rooney,Basti,Darmian would be the 3 I would think are certs and maybe Young and Carrick if they want moves.

Shaw is dead in the water, I reckon; there's been a falling out there with Jose.
Martial wouldn't shock me tbh.
Could see one of Smalling or Jones looking for a move as they fall down the pecking order.
Rooney and Bastian are dead certs.

yabadabado

Lord TSC wrote: »

Shaw is dead in the water, I reckon; there's been a falling out there with Jose.
Martial wouldn't shock me tbh.
Could see one of Smalling or Jones looking for a move as they fall down the pecking order.
Rooney and Bastian are dead certs.

Yeah I wouldn't be majorly surprised to see Shaw or Martial move on but would be really disappointed if they did.Two exceptional talents and could play for the team for the next decade.

If a CB is bought then I suppose one of the current CB's will be surplus to requirements.

Lord TSC

yabadabado wrote: »

Yeah I wouldn't be majorly surprised to see Shaw or Martial move on but would be really disappointed if they did.Two exceptional talents and could play for the team for the next decade.

I agree about being disappointed. At the same time, we're at the point we need players 100% committed to the club and to Jose. If either don't want to be here (and if Shaw was the leak who went to the press trying to make Jose look bad), then I'll be disappointed but I'll live. We're at a delicate stage right now and dedication is needed so badly.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Lord TSC wrote: »

I agree about being disappointed. At the same time, we're at the point we need players 100% committed to the club and to Jose. If either don't want to be here (and if Shaw was the leak who went to the press trying to make Jose look bad), then I'll be disappointed but I'll live. We're at a delicate stage right now and dedication is needed so badly.

No way Martial leaves. Also don't think Shaw will, it's the same scenario as Mick and Smalling.

Trigger

With regards to Shaw, as Jose says he is happy with his back 4 at the mo and tbf we have been decent.. only 2 goals conceded in 2017 so far. Why split them up and Shaw not making the bench is because Jose wants a versatile defender there that can cover multiple positions..

I still wouldn't be overly surprised to see him being moved on though and I reckon he could push for a move himself.

bucketybuck

Pheonix10 wrote: »

No way Martial leaves. Also don't think Shaw will, it's the same scenario as Mick and Smalling.

Its different in one way, I don't think Shaw has the character for the challenge.