Contactless and Cashiers/Bartenders taking the card?

ED E

Hey,

Im under the impression that the customer is meant to be the one to place the contactless card on the terminal? If thats true, can anyone point me to the Visa/MC rules on said? Want to know the facts before I have a chat with the manager of a local establishment.

Ta,
ED-E.

colm_mcm

Secondly, in a typical transaction, the sales assistant has to enter the amount for you to approve first, and then your card has to be held within a couple of centimetres of the terminal for longer than half a second.

From visa website


I think there's a CCPC talk to forum here too.

c1ans7even

I work in a shop and in most cases the customer hands me their card regardless so I tap it for them...never had an issue.

I think it could be due to our set up though. We have a wireless machine that is behind the till that I have to grab for every card transaction.
If we had the terminal at the till on a stand facing you like some other places I'm sure it'd be much easier for the customer to tap themselves.

People sometimes demand a receipt but with contactless, only a merchant receipt is printed so I offer them a till receipt.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Contactless or not, you should not allow your card to be used by anybody else

gercoral

I work in a shop and I always get the customer to do it themselves.

I was in an chemist one day (as a customer), wanted to pay by card. I NEVER tap, always pop it into the machine. I handed it to her and she tapped without asking first. I suppose in that case she didn't know how I wanted to pay but still, I'd like to be given the option. I always give it to my customers anyways

L1011

You can get the contactless disabled if you don't want to do it.

c1ans7even

L1011 wrote: »

You can get the contactless disabled if you don't want to do it.

Yup, I go for the contactless unless told otherwise.

If they don't want it they should tell me or have it disabled.

ED E

L1011 wrote: »

You can get the contactless disabled if you don't want to do it.

No, I love it.

The point is in the proper setup the terminal says "€6.50" and I tap and authorize it. In a pin situation I get the same display.

But when they hide the terminal behind the POS then I 1. dont see the value charged by them and 2. wonder if I've actually authorized the transaction (in a pedantic legal sense).

L1011

ED E wrote: »

No, I love it.

The point is in the proper setup the terminal says "€6.50" and I tap and authorize it. In a pin situation I get the same display.

But when they hide the terminal behind the POS then I 1. dont see the value charged by them and 2. wonder if I've actually authorized the transaction (in a pedantic legal sense).

I know - I was replying to the person who doesn't want to use it. I don't know the answer to your query. Last time I studied a merchant agreement contactless was "just around the corner" and I had a card that did it abroad but not here!

You'd think I'd be better at using the quote function after 14.5 years!

hdowney

c1ans7even wrote: »

Yup, I go for the contactless unless told otherwise.

If they don't want it they should tell me or have it disabled.

I have said 'don't tap it' as I hand the card over and have STILL had cashiers tap it. That irks me something rotten to go against my specific wishes with my card

L1011

hdowney wrote: »

I have said 'don't tap it' as I hand the card over and have STILL had cashiers tap it. That irks me something rotten to go against my specific wishes with my card

Saves the store cash - likely told to tap it at all costs. As above, it can be disabled easily by asking your bank.

daheff

L1011 wrote: »

, it can be disabled easily by asking your bank.

wouldnt say easily....banks are pushing this functionality (more fees for them) and are reluctant to disable it. It takes quite a bit of persuading them to do it.

L1011

daheff wrote: »

wouldnt say easily....banks are pushing this functionality (more fees for them) and are reluctant to disable it. It takes quite a bit of persuading them to do it.

The fees the banks charge both retailer and user are vastly lower than chip/swipe/keyed. It usually takes a two minute phone call about security to get it disabled.

daheff

L1011 wrote: »

The fees the banks charge both retailer and user are vastly lower than chip/swipe/keyed. It usually takes a two minute phone call about security to get it disabled.

My point was the fees are higher vs people using cash. Sorry I wasn't clear on this.

It must be my bank, but they took a hell of a lot of persuading to turn off the functionality (they wouldn't provide a card without the inbuilt debit card function).

hdowney

L1011 wrote: »

Saves the store cash - likely told to tap it at all costs. As above, it can be disabled easily by asking your bank.

Yes but if I expressly tell them not to then they should abide by my wishes and not completely disregard them.

TheChizler

hdowney wrote: »

Yes but if I expressly tell them not to then they should abide by my wishes and not completely disregard them.

Maybe say you prefer not to use contactless? You don't need to tap it, just place it near, they may have a pedantic brain and not follow you instantly.

amcalester

Just out of curiosity why don't you want to use contactless?

hdowney

amcalester wrote: »

Just out of curiosity why don't you want to use contactless?

It's actually my mother. I don't know why but it is her right. I don't use it unless I can use it, i.e. I won't let the cashier take my card behind the counter to tap it.

jimmycrackcorm

daheff wrote:

wouldnt say easily....banks are pushing this functionality (more fees for them) and are reluctant to disable it. It takes quite a bit of persuading them to do it.

hdowney wrote:

Yes but if I expressly tell them not to then they should abide by my wishes and not completely disregard them.

I think the blindingly obvious point is that you should never hand over your card particularly when contactless is enabled.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

TheChizler

I never got these concerns. Sure someone with a terminal could take an unauthorised payment by putting a terminal near your pocket, but there's an electronic record and they'll be found incredibly easily.

Delacent

daheff wrote: »

My point was the fees are higher vs people using cash. Sorry I wasn't clear on this.

It must be my bank, but they took a hell of a lot of persuading to turn off the functionality (they wouldn't provide a card without the inbuilt debit card function).

That's not correct anymore.

Cash lodged costs 0.45%, debit card is 0.5%-0.8%

When you add other costs of handling cash and lodging it the preference for business is card.

Del2005

hdowney wrote: »

Yes but if I expressly tell them not to then they should abide by my wishes and not completely disregard them.

If they ignore your wishes the best way to deal with that is don't do business there again. I can never understand why people complain about something but keep going back and expecting a different outcome.

newacc2015

ED E wrote: »

But when they hide the terminal behind the POS then I 1. dont see the value charged by them and 2. wonder if I've actually authorized the transaction (in a pedantic legal sense).

You can ask for a receipt which will show the value charged.

You handed them the card. How is that not allowing them to authorise the card. Its like saying I haven't authorised the cashier to accept my €10 note unless I reach into the till to get the change myself

Most banks are happy to go cashless. Cash and particularly coins are cumbersome for banks. It is nightmare for small branches to be counting and dealing with small coins. Most cash transactions are low value. Contactless is a great way for banks to not be dealing with low margin/loss making coins with customers.

hdowney

Del2005 wrote: »

If they ignore your wishes the best way to deal with that is don't do business there again. I can never understand why people complain about something but keep going back and expecting a different outcome.

I never once said that I'd return to a place. I can and do vote with my feet

ED E

newacc2015 wrote: »

You can ask for a receipt which will show the value charged.

You handed them the card. How is that not allowing them to authorise the card. Its like saying I haven't authorised the cashier to accept my €10 note unless I reach into the till to get the change myself

Most banks are happy to go cashless. Cash and particularly coins are cumbersome for banks. It is nightmare for small branches to be counting and dealing with small coins. Most cash transactions are low value. Contactless is a great way for banks to not be dealing with low margin/loss making coins with customers.

The same way if I hand my card to a waiter in a restaurant, he inserts the card but hands its back to me to enter the pin and authorize.

If I head to the states I sign as authorization.

For the smaller contactless limits the touch action stands in for the pin/sig.



TLDR basically I'd like them to place the terminals correctly so I can tap to pay myself rather than offer to pay by card but refuse to hand it over and thus have a bit of a back and forth holding up a rather long queue.

Its just occurred to me that they might be manually entering the transaction amount rather than it being populated by their EPOS, so this could all come down to them cheaping out on their POS. Maybe Ill just start paying with €50 notes each time...

daheff

amcalester wrote: »

Just out of curiosity why don't you want to use contactless?

Its not secure. Search the internet for security breaches for 'tap' cards

Delacent wrote: »

That's not correct anymore.

Cash lodged costs 0.45%, debit card is 0.5%-0.8%

When you add other costs of handling cash and lodging it the preference for business is card.

I was talking about personal customers. Banks make very little off them, so to be able to charge for each transaction makes it a little more profitable.
An ex-colleague was using hers to buy small items (what this is aimed at)in supermarket for lunches.

Didnt think they were going to charge stupid amounts -in some cases she was charge more in fees than the item she was buy was costing (eg 50c charge for a 30c apple/banana).

Now thats a few years ago when it was rolled out first, and fees are less now.

hdowney wrote: »

I never once said that I'd return to a place. I can and do vote with my feet

good stuff

Sue Pa Key Pa

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Can you tell me how? PM if necessary

Delta2113

You could get a Revolut Card which is Contactless but you can switch on and off the function using an app on your Smartphone.

Quackster

Delta2113 wrote: »

You could get a Revolut Card which is Contactless but you can switch on and off the function using an app on your Smartphone.

Plus with Revolut (and N26) the transaction appears on your phone instantly so you can be sure you've been charged the correct amount before leaving, even if they don't hand you a receipt.

TheChizler

Quackster wrote: »

Plus with Revolut (and N26) the transaction appears on your phone instantly so you can be sure you've been charged the correct amount before leaving, even if they don't hand you a receipt.

This also happens with Android Pay now, for those able to use it.