Are Trump-style border walls the solution for Europe?

sid waddell

Interested to see what people think of this, especially supporters of Donald Trump, many of whom of course also supported the "Leave" campaign in the Brexit referendum.

There seems to be an emerging consensus amongst right-wingers that immigration, especially immigration from the Middle East and Africa, is a bad thing, that Europe is under attack from "barbarians who will stop at nothing to destroy our civilisation".

Both Ireland and Europe are "under siege" from "mass immigration", we are told.

These immigrants "want to destroy us", right?

Donald Trump's proposed US-Mexico border wall has gained widespread support with his supporters, many of whom populate these forums. This wall will, in their words, "protect and secure the US's borders".

The Schengen agreement which allows free movement across European borders has come under huge fire from the likes of Nigel Farage and Marine Le Pen, and of course we have our own free movement across the border in this country.

So, given that Trump's wall will "protect and secure" the US-Mexico border, isn't it time that Europe followed suit by "protecting its borders"??

A continent-wide wall building programme would surely provide protection from "the barbarian enemy at our gates". And just think of the employment it would provide. The construction industry across Europe would see an unprecedented boom.

Just think about it. Big, beautiful walls from Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic, and everywhere else. Big beautiful walls over the top of Mont Blanc on the border between France and Italy, between Holland and Belgium, between Spain and Portugal, between Norway and Sweden, between Germany and Poland, between Serbia and Croatia and between the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Just think about what a big, beautiful border wall in Ireland could do. The employment it would provide. The protection from the evil of immigration it would offer, both to the Republic and to the UK - this will, very shortly, after all, become the one and only land frontier between the EU and the UK, and with Britain "full" and "under siege", you can bet that vast hordes of "barbarians" will be looking to cross that border. But a wall will stop them.

How about it, Trumpsters? If the Donald can do it, well surely yes we can too?

Build those walls!

Winterlong

€1 billion wall can be rendered useless by a €10 ladder.
Waste of money.

Lets build bridges of love instead. Or something.

Butters1979

Winterlong wrote: »

€1 billion wall can be rendered useless by a €10 ladder.
Waste of money.

Lets build bridges of love instead. Or something.

Landmines and sentry guns.

sid waddell

Butters1979 wrote: »

Landmines and sentry guns.

Are you a Trump supporter?

How would these landmines and sentry guns on the borders of Europe work?

MadYaker

Walls are not the answer. Immigration into the EU is fine, as long as it's regulated and controlled. Merkel's idea of taking absolutely everyone who shows up at the edge of the EU no questions asked without knowing anything about them is a disaster.

RobertKK

Is the wall the Israelis built effective?

Butters1979

sid waddell wrote: »

Are you a Trump supporter?

How would these landmines and sentry guns on the borders of Europe work?

And giant migrant seeking robots. Has the satire sunk in yet?

Arcade_Tryer

sid waddell wrote: »

Just think about what a big, beautiful border wall in Ireland could do.

Make going to the beach pointless?

Hande hoche!

Seems to work reasonably enough in parts of the Eastern EU.

Badly Drunk Boy

Am I allowed to draw a picture of a pony on the wall? I'm no good at drawing ponies...

hadepsx

Nothing beautiful about a big wall across lovely scenery.

sid waddell

Butters1979 wrote: »

And giant migrant seeking robots. Has the satire sunk in yet?

Are you a Trump supporter?

Richard Hillman

RobertKK wrote: »

Is the wall the Israelis built effective?

Very effective. There have been 4 deaths from suicide bombings in the last 10 years. The previous 10 years had over 500.

sid waddell

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Very effective. There have been 4 deaths from suicide bombings in the last 10 years. The previous 10 years had over 500.

So surely this type of wall is the answer for Europe?

Yes?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Richard Hillman

The levels of immigration into the likes of Hungary have fallen since they erected their fence.

In October 2015, 99,450 illegal economic migrants entered into Hungary.

In November 2015, 315 illegal economic migrants entered into Hungary

sid waddell

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The levels of immigration into the likes of Hungary have fallen since they erected their fence.

In October 2015, 99,450 illegal economic migrants entered into Hungary.

In November 2015, 315 illegal economic migrants entered into Hungary

So surely, given the statistics you quote, and your post demonstrating the "effectiveness" of the Israeli wall, you would support walls being built along all European borders?

Hazys

The wall is insanely stupid and costly.

50% of all illegal immigrants in the US over stay their visas. So the wall solution being proposed, does not even impact 50% of illegal immigrants.

If the US is serious about fixing illegal immigration, they need to fix the legal immigration process first. Its a cheaper solution than a multi billion dollar wall that will be easily navigated around by tunnels, ladders, boats and so on. The legal immigration process being so backward, not flexible and open to corruption is why they have so many visa over stays.

As a simple case, if you are a foreign student who studied in a US college for 4 years, you get a temporary 18 month visa once you graduate and get a job. In those 18 months of employment, you have to apply for the annual H1B visa lottery which this year you only have a 1 in 5 chance of getting. You may get 2 shots at in your 18 months and if you dont get it, you're deported (many choose to overstay or go to scam colleges to keep their student visas). H1B lottery has people applying from all over the world against people you are actually live and work in the US, who are already integrated into US culture. The person outside the US applying for the H1B visa actually has more options than the person in the US, they can apply for the L1 visa and other such visas. Not to mention a ton of India consultancy companies have figured out a loophole in the H1B system, were basically they put in multiple entries in the lotteries for each of their employees to give them a better chance to win. Sometimes the employee can win two visas but can only accept one so the other goes to waste.

I've had a friend who got his MBA in Boston College and was working a good job at the time, applied for the H1B lottery 4 times, did not get it 4 years in a row and was forced to leave the country. When i was renewing my H1B years ago in the Dublin embassy, they guy in front of me just got his H1B visa, his specialized skill that his college education qualified him to apply for the H1B visa, was barista. So they are kicking out MBA level students for baristas who worked the system.

corner of hells

Hazys wrote: »

The wall is insanely stupid and costly.

50% of all illegal immigrants in the US over stay their visas. So the wall solution being proposed, does not even impact 50% of illegal immigrants.

If the US is serious about fixing illegal immigration, they need to fix the legal immigration process first. Its a cheaper solution than a multi billion dollar wall that will be easily navigated around by tunnels, ladders, boats and so on. The legal immigration process being so backward, not flexible and open to corruption is why they have so many visa over stays.

As a simple case, if you are a foreign student who studied in a US college for 4 years, you get a temporary 18 month visa once you graduate and get a job. In those 18 months of employment, you have to apply for the annual H1B visa lottery which this year you only have a 1 in 5 chance of getting. You may get 2 shots at in your 18 months and if you dont get it, you're deported (many choose to overstay or go to scam colleges to keep their student visas). H1B lottery has people applying from all over the world against people you are actually live and work in the US, who are already integrated into US culture. The person outside the US applying for the H1B visa actually has more options than the person in the US, they can apply for the L1 visa and other such visas. Not to mention a ton of India consultancy companies have figured out a loophole in the H1B system, were basically they put in multiple entries in the lotteries for each of their employees to give them a better chance to win. Sometimes the employee can win two visas but can only accept one so the other goes to waste.

I've had a friend who got his MBA in Boston College and was working a good job at the time, applied for the H1B lottery 4 times, did not get it 4 years in a row and was forced to leave the country. When i was renewing my H1B years ago in the Dublin embassy, they guy in front of me just got his H1B visa, his specialized skill that his college education qualified him to apply for the H1B visa, was barista. So they are kicking out MBA level students for baristas who worked the system.

Its possible wall building might qualify you for a visa nowadays .

sjb25

sid waddell wrote: »

Are you a Trump supporter?

How would these landmines and sentry guns on the borders of Europe work?

How do they work?

Well the land mines you put them in the ground the person you don't want to cross the boarder stands on one BOOM problem solved
Sentry guns incase they get past the mine you point and pull trigger bang bang problem solved

Disclaimer I'm not advocating the use of either but that's they way they would work if one was that way inclined

Harry Palmr

sid waddell wrote: »

Just think about it. Big, beautiful walls from Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic, and everywhere else. Big beautiful walls over the top of Mont Blanc on the border between France and Italy, between Holland and Belgium, between Spain and Portugal, between Norway and Sweden, between Germany and Poland, between Serbia and Croatia and between the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Just think about what a big, beautiful border wall in Ireland could do. The employment it would provide. The protection from the evil of immigration it would offer, both to the Republic and to the UK - this will, very shortly, after all, become the one and only land frontier between the EU and the UK, and with Britain "full" and "under siege", you can bet that vast hordes of "barbarians" will be looking to cross that border. But a wall will stop them.

How about it, Trumpsters? If the Donald can do it, well surely yes we can too?

Build those walls!

Obviously a satirical post! The logistics of the wall would be interesting - the original spec Trump wall of about 2000 miles of presumably contiguous pre-cast concrete would have used up a volume of material greater than the 6 pyramids of Giza and about 12m tones of rebar steel

whisky_galore

Hazys wrote: »

50% of all illegal immigrants in the US over stay their visas. So the wall solution being proposed, does not even impact 50% of illegal immigrants.

It won't stop the illegal...sorry 'undocumented' Irish...

sid waddell

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I think it would be quite a fair assertion that most people who claim "mass immigration" to be "a major existential threat to European civilisation" would have tended towards supporting him in the US election.

Certainly I didn't see too many of such people expressing support for Hillary Clinton during the campaign?

Butters1979

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

And Hitler

And senator Palpatine.

Elemonator

Looks like we'll need them in the East now. Turkey is threatening the migrant deal over the Greek Supreme Court ruling on the extradition of the former Turkish soldiers.

Hazys

whisky_galore wrote: »

I won't stop the illegal...sorry 'undocumented' Irish...

People are illegal because they can't find a route to be legal.

sid waddell

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Obviously a satirical post! The logistics of the wall would be interesting - the original spec Trump wall of about 2000 miles of presumably contiguous pre-cast concrete would have used up a volume of material greater than the 6 pyramids of Giza and about 12m tones of rebar steel

Think of the employment the construction would provide!

Surely anybody who is against walls on European borders, is against employment?

These walls would surely destroy any terrorist threat to Europe.

The best way to protect our freedom, is by destroying it.

I think we can all agree that's a very small price to pay.

sid waddell

Butters1979 wrote: »

And Hitler

And senator Palpatine.

What's your view on walls going up in Europe?

Why are you mentioning Hitler?!

donegaLroad

It would be more cost effective to invest in a country with a long term economic plan, than to cut it off by building a wall.

Cina

Ireland should build the world's biggest moat.

Fecking love moats.

RobertKK

Cina wrote: »

Ireland should build the world's biggest moat.

Fecking love moats.

Yeah, we should be taught in history how our ancestors built the moat around Ireland.

osarusan

Build a tunnel from Ireland to Great Britain and then wall it up. That'll learn em.

whisky_galore

Hazys wrote: »

People are illegal because they can't find a route to be legal.

The Irish can easily find a route to some other country, can they not?

They're 'economic migrants' after all.

TheRa

Hazys wrote: »

People are illegal because they can't find a route to be legal.

Legalise all illegal acts and eradicate crime!

SteM

sid waddell wrote: »

...what people think .....And just think of the employment....Just think about it. Big, beautiful walls...Just think about what a big, beautiful border wall in Ireland could do.

Sorry, you're asking me to do more thinking in one post than the majority of the American electorate during the presidential election.

DEFTLEFTHAND

whisky_galore wrote: »

It won't stop the illegal...sorry 'undocumented' Irish...

Oh god yeah, I always cringe when Irish politicians start yapping on about the 'undocumented' Irish.

It's embarrassing, they broke all the rules and illegally settled in a foreign country. They're illegal immigrants full stop, no special treatment should be afforded to them.

Noddyholder

It seems to work quite well in Belfast, when since the cease fire they have actually got more erected.

wakka12

Most illegal immigrants enter legally, via a visa, and then overstay their visit and refuse to leave then they become illegal immigrants. So not that many illegal immigrants are your stereotypical border fence jumpers sneaking into the country, so a wall is useless. Apart from the fact that they are expensive, especially considering how unnecessary they are and I think they are a symbol of a regressive and hateful society.

wes

Pointless expensive security theatre that only impresses the stupid.

FFS, you would think people have never heard of ladders, planes, tunnels, and explosives. Any wall can realitvely easily be torn down. Its not the middle ages.

whisky_galore

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Oh god yeah, I always cringe when Irish politicians start yapping on about the 'undocumented' Irish.

It's embarrassing, they broke all the rules and illegally settled in a foreign country. They're illegal immigrants full stop, no special treatment should be afforded to them.

Ah but we're sound enough that way...'special relationship'....blah blah...

Butters1979

sid waddell wrote: »

What's your view on walls going up in Europe?

Why are you mentioning Hitler?!

You're ok with senator Palpatine though?

A Little Pony

The wall should be built around the Middle East.

sid waddell

A Little Pony wrote: »

The wall should be built around the Middle East.

Which route exactly would you suggest this wall around the Middle East take?

Who would build it?

Would this wall keep their oil away from Europe too, or just people?

Or perhaps it would be designed to keep Westerners out of the Middle East and prevent them from destroying it any more than they've already done? It'd need to be a very high wall in that case!

Graces7

They got them building walls and roads here in the Famine. Same old, same old...

Widdershins

RobertKK wrote: »

Is the wall the Israelis built effective?

It worked really well until they all started singing.

Widdershins

Hazys wrote: »

People are illegal because they can't find a route to be legal.

Sometimes. And sometimes they don't care about the legal route.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

Hank Scorpio

Build safe zones in Cork

A Little Pony

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Build safe zones in Cork

Haven't these people suffered enough?

Mr. FoggPatches

Let's trial it before we commit to pouring money into it. We can stick one in, say, Berlin and see how that works out.

Widdershins

A Little Pony wrote: »

Haven't these people suffered enough?

Some people are heartless