What is wrong with Dublin City Centre?

MilesMorales1

I've always tried to see the best in town, but like. It's just awful at the moment, worst than its been before right? It's filthy for one. The endless road works and construction going on doesn't help the look, or the traffic. And the amount of 'anti social elements' seems to have increased recently, aggresive junkies being loud, starting fights. I was waiting at the bus stop opposite Connolly Station by the welfare office or whatever that is today, group of junkies were having a go at each other by shoving each and taking up the pavement, then as one group moved away they chucked two beer cans at the other groups, and walked away shouting.

I dunno, thoughts?

TheFitz13

There's junkies on nearly (if not all) European cities really. I happen to actually like town, the roadworks are just development, when it's all finished I'd say it will look better to you. I feel like town can have a great atmosphere IMO

fly_agaric

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

The endless road works and construction going on doesn't help the look, or the traffic

Yes, I'm really not sure it is worth the pain for the toy tram set. Good for people who can use the new line, but at cost of lost road space for busses (not "trendy", no minister photo ops but most people will still be relying on these) and more congestion in the city centre.

For the necessary public transport improvements that Dublin is going to need (sorry - needed years ago really!) the big shelved rail projects (rail interconnector, metro) need to be done. Whenever the powers that be finally admit defeat & build them everything has to be dug up + centre of the city becomes a construction site for years again. Great.

MilesMorales1

TheFitz13 wrote: »

There's junkies on nearly (if not all) European cities really. I happen to actually like town, the roadworks are just development, when it's all finished I'd say it will look better to you. I feel like town can have a great atmosphere IMO

I dunno. I'm sure you're right, but I lived in Liverpool most of my life, and I never noticed them as concentrated as they seem to be in Dublin.

PeadarK

Just wait till May comes around and it's sunny....that's when town is brilliant!

James 007

This girl does not seem to think it is that bad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19A53SyAUak&list=RD19A53SyAUak#t=0

Hollister11

I've lived in Dublin all my life and the issue is that town is a kip.

It's full of fast food restaurants, pubs, junkies and ugly arictecture.

Hopefully the renovation of clearys will end up being a blessing. Imagine having high end offices, accommodation and dining facilities. It would transform the place.

humberklog

Other than the obvious mess the Luas is making at the moment I think Dublin looks better now than it has in my lifetime (I'm 47). In particular the mid 70's to early 90's was a particularly grim time in Dublin.

A lot of the buildings had fallen into disrepair and because of the economic situation there was very little interest in investment.

Beggers on the street has always been a problem in Dublin. Even going back to the 1840's when the African American Frederick Douglas came to visit he was taken aback at the amount of begging on the streets.

Dublin's not unique in having beggars but there is, I think, more indigenous Irish people begging than you get (for example) indigenous French begging in France or Dutch in Holland or Germans in Germany etc. You get begging in all cities but I'd see more immigrants begging in those countries. I don't see many immigrants begging in Ireland. Some of course but they're in the minority.

It's seems to be considered a viable way of topping up their already generous benefits but this isn't a new phenomena in Ireland by a long stretch.
I think we've a problem but I don't think the problem is any worse now than 25 years ago.

The heroin epidemic in the 80's was a brutal time in the city for junkies, beggars and muggers and the cityscape looked awful too.

MilesMorales1

humberklog wrote: »

Other than the obvious mess the Luas is making at the moment I think Dublin looks better now than it has in my lifetime (I'm 47). In particular the mid 70's to early 90's was a particularly grim time in Dublin.

A lot of the buildings had fallen into disrepair and because of the economic situation there was very little interest in investment.

Beggers on the street has always been a problem in Dublin. Even going back to the 1840's when the African American Frederick Douglas came to visit he was taken aback at the amount of begging on the streets.

Dublin's not unique in having beggars but there is, I think, more indigenous Irish people begging than you get (for example) indigenous French begging in France or Dutch in Holland or Germans in Germany etc. You get begging in all cities but I'd see more immigrants begging in those countries. I don't see many immigrants begging in Ireland. Some of course but they're in the minority.

It's seems to be considered a viable way of topping up their already generous benefits but this isn't a new phenomena in Ireland by a long stretch.
I think we've a problem but I don't think the problem is any worse now than 25 years ago.

The heroin epidemic in the 80's was a brutal time in the city for junkies, beggars and muggers and the cityscape looked awful too.

Be nice if there was no problem at all though :pac: Not that I know how to solve it.

humberklog

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Be nice if there was no problem at all though :pac: Not that I know how to solve it.

It would but I'm all out of ideas too:)

boobycharlton

Addicts, homeless foks and people begging concentrating in the city is because majority of addiction services, homeless services and hostels are located there, and whenever a proposal to re-locate services to the suburbs is mooted it's shot down by residents of whatever area was proposed, so can't really win on that score. All the Guards can do is move them on really

Guts of the luas works are finished so won't be too long until the city is relieved of it's building site appearance too.

Other than that I don't think there's too much wrong with the place. Have had several groups of American & Canadian friends visit over the last 6 months and none of them had any complaints and they all loved the pubs, museums, walks, Breweries, Cathedrals, Liffey Cruise, Georgian architecture etc.

Del2005

fly_agaric wrote: »

Yes, I'm really not sure it is worth the pain for the toy tram set. Good for people who can use the new line, but at cost of lost road space for busses (not "trendy", no minister photo ops but most people will still be relying on these) and more congestion in the city centre.

For the necessary public transport improvements that Dublin is going to need (sorry - needed years ago really!) the big shelved rail projects (rail interconnector, metro) need to be done. Whenever the powers that be finally admit defeat & build them everything has to be dug up + centre of the city becomes a construction site for years again. Great.

Did you miss the Minster for transport taking pictures of himself on the bus and saying how good it is, at 10am during the working week!

Dublin will never get the infrastructure that it needs as it'll take longer than 5 years and no politician will sign it off in case they loose their seat and the next politician gets the credit. The other problem is that the majority of TDs are not from Dublin and keep saying no to investment in anything for Dublin unless their local village gets the same.

newacc2015

Go to any German City and you will see massive amounts of construction on par with Dublin. Half of Berlin is being rebuilt most of the time. Cities are supposed to be redeveloped all the time. The Luas works are due to be completely finished and the Luas running by Q3. If you look at O'Connell St, most of it now done.

IMO I don't think Dublin has looked so well. Grafton St looks extremely well since so much of it has been redeveloped. The likes of Dame St, Molesworth St are being heavily redeveloped and will look great in a year or two. Dorset St is improving. Capel St looks incredible versus 10 years ago. Its a pity Moore St looks like something from Angela's Ashes, but a redevelopment is on the cards which will also help O'Connell St.

Dublin needs some of the massive tax revenue it raises spent in it. But as long as rural driveways aka local roads are given massive budgets, we can't expect much for Dublin

tricky D

Echoing humberklog, the late 70s, early 80s were grim with things like glue sniffers conked out and the rent boys at O'Connell Bridge. The tenements situation was an awful blight too. Thankfully that has improved.

Del2005 has a point about proper infrastructure. Politics aside, Dublin has two major impediments to infrastructural development: the main thoroughfares were built in the horse days, so are thin, irregular and hard to expand; then for tunneling there's a problem with glacial till - simply put there's more boulders in the path which are expensive to tackle resource-wise.

The concentration of addiction service centres is also a problem. Treatment with more attention to care in the local community is obvious but barely practiced. A doctor in one leafy suburb did treat addicts years ago, but got vilified so much that one of the news programs did a hatchet job on him shortly after he died.

humberklog

On the Luas works: to my eye there is much more care taken with this phasing through the city than was with the original Red and Green lines. Well planned, staged and progressed. I worked on the original (not in the city) and it was haphazard at best. It is a bit of a pain but it's getting there and getting there well.

Hopefully it'll have the same effect on the Northside area (Moore St, Dorset St.) that Red line has had on Jervis to Benburb St.

@ Tricky D, jayzuz I'd forgotten all about glue bags and rent boys. In fact just on street prostitution (all but gone now) it makes for a much better place at night especially for women. I worked and lived around Herbert St.\ Baggot St. in the late 80's and at night around there and Fitzwilliam Sq. there was always an air of risk with kerb crawlers and that was as now one of the fancy places in the city.

El_Duderino 09

MilesMorales1 wrote:

The endless road works and construction going on doesn't help the look, or the traffic.

You're whining about investment in infrastructure in a thread about how crap the city is. It would be be cool if they could do the construction off site and airlift the completed luas overnight. But that's not how investment in infrastructure works

Wheeliebin30

We get rid of trams after decade's only to decide actually we should have kept them let's dig up the whole city again!

El_Duderino 09

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

We get rid of trams after decade's only to decide actually we should have kept them let's dig up the whole city again!

Ah jaysus. Cars became popular in the meantime. Then cars became a problem so they needed more public transport again.

I can't stand the mentally of looking to denigrate the city for reacting to demand. I'ts not perfect but it's not like they could have just plopped the luas on the old tracks without having to dig them up and re-enforce the foundations anyway.

fly_agaric

Del2005 wrote: »

Did you miss the Minster for transport taking pictures of himself on the bus and saying how good it is, at 10am during the working week!

Dublin will never get the infrastructure that it needs as it'll take longer than 5 years and no politician will sign it off in case they loose their seat and the next politician gets the credit. The other problem is that the majority of TDs are not from Dublin and keep saying no to investment in anything for Dublin unless their local village gets the same.

Yes, must have missed that! Yes these are the factors in the way. I think this infrastructure will be built eventually due to pressure from business, foreign investors etc. That's the only thing that can make it happen. I'll probably be drawing a pension (if such things exist) by then though.

Edit: Ha - I googled it.
http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/banter/trending/transport-minister-returns-to-work-with-bizarre-bus-selfie-and-twitter-is-not-impressed-35337736.html Should have tried one of the long routes out to commuterville in the Evening rush hour and see what he thinks? 39A to Ongar at 5/6pm from the quays maybe?

Unfortunately he strikes me as a minister who has very limited interest in transport.
Much more interested perhaps when it comes to aspects of the law, judges and public appointments etc but unfortunately for us Justice was not put up by FG as a "sweetie" for independent support.

odyssey06

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah jaysus. Cars became popular in the meantime. Then cars became a problem so they needed more public transport again.
I can't stand the mentally of looking to denigrate the city for reacting to demand. I'ts not perfect but it's not like they could have just plopped the luas on the old tracks without having to dig them up and re-enforce the foundations anyway.

The trams were much loved at the time, and the city has been here for 1000 years. Yes you should react to demand, but not in such a way that it significantly constrains you from reacting to future demands. That's not denigrating the city, it's holding city planners to account.

El_Duderino 09

odyssey06 wrote:

The trams were much loved at the time, and the city has been here for 1000 years. Yes you should react to demand, but not in such a way that it significantly constrains you from reacting to future demands. That's not denigrating the city, it's holding city planners to account.

The fact that it's 100 years old is significant. It was built by Vikings who gave no thought to bus lanes and luas tracks. It's a bit of a nightmare to build on a city that was built haphazardly.

The current planners are putting trams back in but some people only want to give out about the inconvenience of the construction it as if it's a bad thing.

killbillvol2

Glad to see a bit of perspective in the thread.

I too remember Dublin 30+years ago and it was grim. It's a pleasure to walk around now even with roadworks. The choice of places to eat, drink coffee, have a beer has never been better.

I suspect that most of the whinging about begging /junkies/poor people comes from people with very limited life experience and no experience of other capital cities.

Brock Turnpike

Reduce number of bus lanes, improve train and Luas/tram links. Put actual cycle lanes in, rather than having lunatics ducking and diving in and out of cars.

odyssey06

Let's not lose sight of something, even if other European cities haven't solved the problems of junkies and beggars - they are still problems.
And our ones seem spectacularly unbothered by our police.

troyzer

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I've always tried to see the best in town, but like. It's just awful at the moment, worst than its been before right? It's filthy for one. The endless road works and construction going on doesn't help the look, or the traffic. And the amount of 'anti social elements' seems to have increased recently, aggresive junkies being loud, starting fights. I was waiting at the bus stop opposite Connolly Station by the welfare office or whatever that is today, group of junkies were having a go at each other by shoving each and taking up the pavement, then as one group moved away they chucked two beer cans at the other groups, and walked away shouting.

I dunno, thoughts?

A few years ago I was waiting for a bus on Westmoreland street and a guy came running out of Temple bar. Another guy was chasing him with blood down his face carrying an axe. I've never seen anything like it.

PeadarK

Brock Turnpike wrote:

Reduce number of bus lanes, improve train and Luas/tram links. Put actual cycle lanes in, rather than having lunatics ducking and diving in and out of cars.

By improving train and luas links town would look an even bigger mess till that would be finished

MilesMorales1

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Reduce number of bus lanes, improve train and Luas/tram links. Put actual cycle lanes in, rather than having lunatics ducking and diving in and out of cars.

I'd like more trains. I wish they'd done that Metro link to swords.

Dr Crayfish

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I suspect that most of the whinging about begging /junkies/poor people comes from people with very limited life experience and no experience of other capital cities.

I've lived in Canada, France, Spain, NZ, Australia, and the UK and never saw anything remotely close to how bad the junkie and begging situation is in Dublin city. It doesn't bother me that much personally, but people saying it's like that everywhere are 100% wrong.

I don't understand the begging thing and the Garda - is it not illegal? I work near Grafton St for nearly 3 years now and it's the exact same beggers in the area, in the same spot, every day.

cactusgal

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I've lived in Canada, France, Spain, NZ, Australia, and the UK and never saw anything remotely close to how bad the junkie and begging situation is in Dublin city. It doesn't bother me that much personally, but people saying it's like that everywhere are 100% wrong.

I don't understand the begging thing and the Garda - is it not illegal? I work near Grafton St for nearly 3 years now and it's the exact same beggers in the area, in the same spot, every day.

This is very true. It's funny how these days that if you say something negative about someone/something, those that disagree with you claim that you are a whinger/whiner/snowflake. Why is that? Is it not OK to have differing perspectives on things?

I wasn't in Dublin in the 70s and 80s, and it certainly sounds like it's improved since. But I also agree with the OP that the roadworks have literally been sitting there for years, and the drug addiction/homelessness in some parts of the city centre is pretty grim.

spatchco

is it just me why is the no luas work carried out at nite and weekend it bad enough to get through town [on ] a bus with out the s''t going on forever

newacc2015

spatchco wrote: »

is it just me why is the no luas work carried out at nite and weekend it bad enough to get through town [on ] a bus with out the s''t going on forever

It is carried out at night. I seen them late at night ie 3am working on the Luas works.