What is wrong with Dublin City Centre?

Chuchote

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

The sad part is the genuine homeless (rough sleepers) end up with a bad rep, I spent the last 18 months helping the rough sleepers and a high percentage of the ones I met would have been clean and sober and fearful of going to the hostels due to fear of being robbed or being around the habits they have managed to kick.
In fact a lot of the rough sleepers I helped also refused to beg. A lot of beggars actually have homes or semi permanent beds in hostels and refer to begging as 'going to work'. There's money in begging now and I would implore people not to give money to beggars as it just perpetuates the cycle.

Yeah; I generally give people a cup of coffee and a sandwich if I give anything.

MartyMcFly84

Up around Tara Street was a lot worse three or four years ago. Huge undercover presence and it was a lot like a game of cat and mouse between sellers and plain clothes. The plain clothes used to actually stand chatting to the dealers as it meant nobody could buy anything. Obviously the dealers and addicts knew the undercover after a while but anytime I've been up there lately it's been quiet so I presumed it was successful.

Swigging from bottles of methadone is hardly the end of the world. At least they're taking that rather than heroin.

These guard clean up initiatives are short lived unless they are backed up with a consistent presence on the streets. Granted drinking methadone openly is not as bad as openly injecting, but I don't feel open drug dealing should be happening freely and with impunity on the city streets. They bought it off other people on the street who are obviously selling their prescriptions on.

There is much debate if methadone is actually helping to prevent people taking heroin. Commonly people just develop a secondary addiction to methadone on top of heroin. But that is another issue.

Doctor Nick

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

These guard clean up initiatives are short lived unless they are backed up with a consistent presence on the streets. Granted drinking methadone openly is not as bad as openly injecting, but I don't feel open drug dealing should be happening freely and with impunity on the city streets. They bought it off other people on the street who are obviously selling their prescriptions on.

There is much debate if methadone is actually helping to prevent people taking heroin. Commonly people just develop a secondary addiction to methadone on top of heroin. But that is another issue.

Well yes, selling the methadone is a different issue indeed. I know all about the pitfalls of addiction, both primary and secondary as I am a recovering addict and alcoholic. Methadone is a great treatment for heroin dependence BUT not the way the system here uses it which emphasises MMT (Methadone Maintenance Therapy) over detoxification. What should be done (IMO) is use it to detox with a 6 months prescription and a strictly controlled and monitored tapering plan adhered to, then it should be easy enough to get off for the user to quit both the heroin and the methadone.

Ironically, Methadone itself is actually more addictive than heroin. Heroin WD is short but intense. Methadone WD after long term use is not as intense but is more prolonged and can take up to a year for the user to feel normal again. But I digress and have gone way off topic.

Dublin Spur

A couple of points on this:

Firstly I'm a proud Dubliner, I love Dublin and I think it's great, unique, interesting and cool city.

However I have worked in the north inner city for 5 years now (just off Talbot Street) and with the very best will in the world I am afraid to say that this part of the city a run-down, filthy, dangerous sh1t-hole of a place. I have to step over sh?te on the footpath (some animal, some human) every morning. There's tonnes rubbish blowing up and down the street due to the filthy practice of fly tipping. The council are out there every day washing and cleaning the place but they have hardly made a dent in it given the the volume of dumping in the area. Then there's the addicts and general wrong'uns wandering around 24/7 - it gives the place a very very unpleasant vibe.

In contrast I worked beside Iveagh Gardens for 10 years and the difference in standards is ridiculous.

I hate that Dublin city has a nice wealthy clean side and a filthy poor dirty side.

For example why isn't Montjoy Square the same as Marion Square?
Both are classic Georgian Dublin developments but one is beautiful and the other is rotting away in comparison.

This divide and how it was allowed to develop over the decades/centuries really pisses me off.

pilly

Doctor Nick wrote: »

Well yes, selling the methadone is a different issue indeed. I know all about the pitfalls of addiction, both primary and secondary as I am a recovering addict and alcoholic. Methadone is a great treatment for heroin dependence BUT not the way the system here uses it which emphasises MMT (Methadone Maintenance Therapy) over detoxification. What should be done (IMO) is use it to detox with a 6 months prescription and a strictly controlled and monitored tapering plan adhered to, then it should be easy enough to get off for the user to quit both the heroin and the methadone.

Ironically, Methadone itself is actually more addictive than heroin. Heroin WD is short but intense. Methadone WD after long term use is not as intense but is more prolonged and can take up to a year for the user to feel normal again. But I digress and have gone way off topic.

No, it's an interesting insight. I know some people on methadone and to me they're perfectly well functioning adults so I've often thought what's the harm in them being on it but if it's more addictive than heroine that's a kicker.

Doctor Nick

pilly wrote: »

No, it's an interesting insight. I know some people on methadone and to me they're perfectly well functioning adults so I've often thought what's the harm in them being on it but if it's more addictive than heroine that's a kicker.

Let them go two-three days without and they'll realise how dependant on it they are. I'm sure when they're ready they'll do it (taper down).

When I joined the clinic I strictly told them I wanted to be in and out within 6 months. Ended up on that clinic for 7 years!!!

I was "lucky" in that I could fund my addiction with my job so never had to resort to crime (apart from using illicit substances). I looked after myself as well so managed to keep it hidden from a lot of people. Most aren't that lucky.

Rakish Paddy

Dublin Spur wrote: »

A couple of points on this:

Firstly I'm a proud Dubliner, I love Dublin and I think it's great, unique, interesting and cool city.

However I have worked in the north inner city for 5 years now (just off Talbot Street) and with the very best will in the world I am afraid to say that this part of the city a run-down, filthy, dangerous sh1t-hole of a place. I have to step over sh?te on the footpath (some animal, some human) every morning. There's tonnes rubbish blowing up and down the street due to the filthy practice of fly tipping. The council are out there every day washing and cleaning the place but they have hardly made a dent in it given the the volume of dumping in the area. Then there's the addicts and general wrong'uns wandering around 24/7 - it gives the place a very very unpleasant vibe.

In contrast I worked beside Iveagh Gardens for 10 years and the difference in standards is ridiculous.

I hate that Dublin city has a nice wealthy clean side and a filthy poor dirty side.

For example why isn't Montjoy Square the same as Marion Square?
Both are classic Georgian Dublin developments but one is beautiful and the other is rotting away in comparison.

This divide and how it was allowed to develop over the decades/centuries really pisses me off.

A big part of the problem is a segment of the population that lives in / frequents the sh!tty areas. A year or two ago the council was out collecting illegally dumped rubbish literally every day around Summerhill / Ballybough areas, and every day there were new piles chucked out there, so it's not entirely a case of the area being neglected. I'm sure there are lots of very decent people living in the North inner city, but begob there are some seriously manky filth-bags there ruining the place for everyone else. Of course, drug addiction / dealing / consumption in public is a major blight in that area, and unfortunately the Gardaí do seem to turn a blind eye to that for the most part.

Dr Crayfish

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

A big part of the problem is a segment of the population that lives in / frequents the sh!tty areas. A year or two ago the council was out collecting illegally dumped rubbish literally every day around Summerhill / Ballybough areas, and every day there were new piles chucked out there, so it's not entirely a case of the area being neglected. I'm sure there are lots of very decent people living in the North inner city, but begob there are some seriously manky filth-bags there ruining the place for everyone else. Of course, drug addiction / dealing / consumption in public is a major blight in that area, and unfortunately the Gardaí do seem to turn a blind eye to that for the most part.

Yup. Often I cycle through Summerhill going home and they just dump their rubbish out on the streets. Mollycoddled social welfare lazy bastards from generation after generation of losers, who have a sense of entitlement to everything, yet wreck their own environment. Put them out beyond the M50, and build apartments in those areas where working people can live. Why they're given prime retail estate is beyond me, they get it all for free, they should be happy with any old roof over their heads.

Doctor Nick

Regarding the Rubbish, the did start putting up photographs of people dumping their rubbish who had been caught on CCTV. You would be surprised at who was doing it. I was going for a job interview back in January up around that area and had a look at the photos (had the tag line "We're watching you" or something. But the thing that surprised me was that it didn't look like your typical scummer that you might expect. The photographs showed elderly women, men in suits (these 2 being the majority), middle aged men and women and the odd kid.

I thought it was a damn good idea. Fly tipping is a pet hate of mine (once did a project in college on drone use and fly tipping is the idea I went with). I wonder why they stopped. They had enough evidence there to get a conviction if they were able to identify the dumpers.

ciaradx

Doctor Nick wrote: »

Regarding the Rubbish, the did start putting up photographs of people dumping their rubbish who had been caught on CCTV. You would be surprised at who was doing it. I was going for a job interview back in January up around that area and had a look at the photos (had the tag line "We're watching you" or something. But the thing that surprised me was that it didn't look like your typical scummer that you might expect. The photographs showed elderly women, men in suits (these 2 being the majority), middle aged men and women and the odd kid.

I thought it was a damn good idea. Fly tipping is a pet hate of mine (once did a project in college on drone use and fly tipping is the idea I went with). I wonder why they stopped. They had enough evidence there to get a conviction if they were able to identify the dumpers.

Yeah I agree they should have continued with this name and shame of fly tippers.

I walk to work and there's one spot on Mary's Abbey across from the Capel Building that's always destroyed with rubbish. Every day without fail there's piles of black bags and they're usually torn open with rubbish all over the street.

Doctor Nick

ciaradx wrote: »

Yeah I agree they should have continued with this name and shame of fly tippers.

I walk to work and there's one spot on Mary's Abbey across from the Capel Building that's always destroyed with rubbish. Every day without fail there's piles of black bags and they're usually torn open with rubbish all over the street.

I know exactly where you're talking about and it's disgusting to look at. Then of course you'll have rodents everywhere and/or birds pecking open the bags.

You have to wonder with DCC. They start a campaign that more than likely would yield results by showing the photographs of people caught in the act and then they just stop it. It doesn't make sense.

AlmightyCushion

Doctor Nick wrote: »

I know exactly where you're talking about and it's disgusting to look at. Then of course you'll have rodents everywhere and/or birds pecking open the bags.

You have to wonder with DCC. They start a campaign that more than likely would yield results by showing the photographs of people caught in the act and then they just stop it. It doesn't make sense.

They should rent some ad space on billboards/bus stops in the area and put up the photos from the CCTV.

Dyr

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

A big part of the problem is a segment of the population that lives in / frequents the sh!tty areas. A year or two ago the council was out collecting illegally dumped rubbish literally every day around Summerhill / Ballybough areas, and every day there were new piles chucked out there, so it's not entirely a case of the area being neglected. I'm sure there are lots of very decent people living in the North inner city, but begob there are some seriously manky filth-bags there ruining the place for everyone else. Of course, drug addiction / dealing / consumption in public is a major blight in that area, and unfortunately the Garda? do seem to turn a blind eye to that for the most part.

The problem with fly tipping is once it starts its not the locals you worry about, everyone and their uncle starts driving into the area and dumping stuff.

Calina

IIRC they ran into data protection issues with those photos.

AlmightyCushion

Calina wrote: »

IIRC they ran into data protection issues with those photos.

Any idea why? Surely, it's the same as a shop displaying a picture of a shoplifter or the guards showing a picture of a known criminal on TV.

Dyr

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Any idea why? Surely, it's the same as a shop displaying a picture of a shoplifter or the guards showing a picture of a known criminal on TV.

I've seen them put up recently down past where I live so they've gotten over whatever qualms they have about legality

Walter H Price

Junkies and Homeless about the place is the biggest issue for me makes the place look dirty and feel unsafe.

Doctor Nick

Walter H Price wrote: »

Junkies and Homeless about the place is the biggest issue for me makes the place look dirty and feel unsafe.

Yeah lets sweep up those homeless rough sleepers they're scary and scruffy. Bring back the Gas Chambers if we can't ship them off somewhere else, the cheek of them getting into arrears on their mortgage and losing their home :rolleyes:

LollipopJimmy

Bambi wrote: »

The problem with fly tipping is once it starts its not the locals you worry about, everyone and their uncle starts driving into the area and dumping stuff.

I live in a quiet part of D8 but there are laneways behind the houses. The last 3 people caught dumping there have been from completely different areas. I'm on the residents committee and it's the number 1 issue every month. Apparently DCC only have one litter warden at the moment

Walter H Price

Doctor Nick wrote: »

Yeah lets sweep up those homeless rough sleepers they're scary and scruffy. Bring back the Gas Chambers if we can't ship them off somewhere else, the cheek of them getting into arrears on their mortgage and losing their home :rolleyes:

That's my view man , Gypo's, Junkies and Homeless take the look off any city and make it feel unsafe and dirty.

A good place to start might be moving the Methadone clinics out of the City center instead of leaving them within a 10 minute walk of O'Connell street

Keyzer

I have to agree with a lot of the negative comments here - Dublin city centre has become a pretty horrible place.

I work in the city centre and, although there are pockets of the city which are still relatively nice places to frequent, a lot of other area's have been neglected and allowed to fall into disrepair.

Doctor Nick

Walter H Price wrote: »

That's my view man , Gypo's, Junkies and Homeless take the look off any city and make it feel unsafe and dirty.

A good place to start might be moving the Methadone clinics out of the City center instead of leaving them within a 10 minute walk of O'Connell street

And what if one day you get the boot from your job, find it impossible to get another, end up defaulting on the old mortgage and find yourself without a roof on your head? What would you do then? Don't think it could never happen, it can happen to anybody.

MarkY91

I have many foreign friends abroad. I would be embarrassed to be their your guide around Dublin city when they eventually come over for a holiday.

There is something really wrong in a society where grown men walk around with their hand down their fake Nike tracksuit bottoms for no reason at all.

Walter H Price

Doctor Nick wrote: »

And what if one day you get the boot from your job, find it impossible to get another, end up defaulting on the old mortgage and find yourself without a roof on your head? What would you do then? Don't think it could never happen, it can happen to anybody.

Sure it can , still takes the look of the place and makes it look dirty and feel unsafe , the question wasn't a will i ever become homeless or how much sympathy should we have for the homeless, it was whats wrong with DCC and in my view there part of it.

Doctor Nick

Walter H Price wrote: »

Sure it can , still takes the look of the place and makes it look dirty and feel unsafe , the question wasn't a will i ever become homeless or how much sympathy should we have for the homeless, it was whats wrong with DCC and in my view there part of it.

True that's a part of it. A very sad part of it. Unfortunately the same can be said for every big city. Every city I have visited has had homeless people and beggars, addicts and people with mental health difficulties. It's a sad fact of life. Given the housing situation with this country there may well be more homeless on our streets in the coming years.

Walter H Price

Doctor Nick wrote: »

True that's a part of it. A very sad part of it. Unfortunately the same can be said for every big city. Every city I have visited has had homeless people and beggars, addicts and people with mental health difficulties. It's a sad fact of life. Given the housing situation with this country there may well be more homeless on our streets in the coming years.

I've been to city's where its both more and less visible , Dublin is not helped by its size and compact nature beggeres and homeless tend to congregate around the main shopping streets , while im sure their are more homeless in Austin given its size and population felt like there was allot less , thankfully our problem with gypsys is not as bad as places like Paris.

Allot could be achieved by the guards just moving these people on during the day cracking down even a small amount on the open drug dealing on Westmorland and Abby Street and moving the methadone clinics out of the city centre.

Doctor Nick

Walter H Price wrote: »

I've been to city's where its both more and less visible , Dublin is not helped by its size and compact nature beggeres and homeless tend to congregate around the main shopping streets , while im sure their are more homeless in Austin given its size and population felt like there was allot less , thankfully our problem with gypsys is not as bad as places like Paris.

Allot could be achieved by the guards just moving these people on during the day cracking down even a small amount on the open drug dealing on Westmorland and Abby Street and moving the methadone clinics out of the city centre.

I have to say the IMO the Gardai did a fantastic job of cleaning up O'Connell Street with regards the sale of Heroin and Zopiclone. When I think back on it it was actually shocking what used to go on (probably still does to a lesser degree) on our main thoroughfare. The Guards really should be commended for what they did.

The problem with moving clinics to the suburbs is nowhere will want them and there will be huge protests from residents. I recall something they wanted to build in Finglas last year and there was uproar. So while it would make sense to do what you say it just doesn't look like it can be done.

Ger Roe

There is distinct lack of pride in Dublin city from those charged with maintaining it. There isn't a footpath anywhere that hasn't got various shovel loads of tarmac beat into it at random intervals. Even our showcase paved pedestrian streets suffer the same fate - allowed to fall apart and then 'repaired' with totally dis-similar and unsuitable materials. The pedestrian surface of O'Connell bridge is like a pock marked lunar landscape that has then been covered in chewing gum goblets. I don't know how the elderly or wheelchair bound citizens are expected to travel safely. There is little point in insisting on full disabled access to buildings, if our streets and footpaths are an access hazard in themselves. At the very least, they look like surfaces in a third world country that has no money and no hope - that's hardly us.... is it? Aren't we supposed to be a 21st century powerhouse of talent and technology that post Brexit companies will be rushing towards with money and jobs?

Give me a break - If we can't get the small stuff right, I have little hope that the major projects we are currently embarking upon will be maintained correctly and safely and Dublin city will continue to look like a badly maintained hovel.

Walter H Price

Doctor Nick wrote: »

I have to say the IMO the Gardai did a fantastic job of cleaning up O'Connell Street with regards the sale of Heroin and Zopiclone. When I think back on it it was actually shocking what used to go on (probably still does to a lesser degree) on our main thoroughfare. The Guards really should be commended for what they did.

The problem with moving clinics to the suburbs is nowhere will want them and there will be huge protests from residents. I recall something they wanted to build in Finglas last year and there was uproar. So while it would make sense to do what you say it just doesn't look like it can be done.

I'm not sure what job your talking about from what i can see there is open drug dealing all around O'Connell street ok maybe not at the spire or under the clock at Clearys but Talbot Street , Westmorland street , The Boardwalks , Abby Street all a stones throw from O'Connel street have open dug dealing i work in DCC walk past it every day have seen 4 OD's on the street in the past 5 moths , there's a pool hall near the office where drug deals are happening constantly , literally 2 mins from Store Street Garda Station and Bus Aras.

Doctor Nick

It's nowhere near as bad as it was in the time period I mentioned. O'Connell Street was like Moore Street for illicit substances. All they were short of doing was shouting "Zimmos and Brown". I know the pool hall you're on about which is just beside a hostel so yeah there will be activity there. I'm not denying it still happens but it is not as bad since the Gardai did their work and moved them on. Although I'll admit that may never have happened had local business not got on board and funded the job.