And so it begins...

hatrickpatrick

pilly wrote: »

So the democratically government of Ireland decides tomorrow to take away our right to leave the country that's okay with you?

Of course it's not ok with me, that's when I start protesting. However, I'm pretty sure that this would require a constitutional amendment in Ireland, wouldn't it?

Point is though, if the rest of the public democratically voted in favour of it, that's part of living in a democracy - you don't always get your way. You can protest, you can agitate, indeed I strongly advocate all of these things (see my very vocal promotion of water protests on this very website over the last few years) but if the rest of the public don't ultimately follow you, that's democracy. They don't have to, just because one person tells them they should.

eeguy

Gringo180 wrote: »

The biggest terrorist attack on U.S soil since pearl harbour was committed by Saudi nationals. Any reason why there not on the restricted list?

$$$

Walter H Price

pilly wrote: »

So the democratically government of Ireland decides tomorrow to take away our right to leave the country that's okay with you?

if the majority of people vote for it .... but i cant see that happening ever to be honest it's a ridiculous scenario.

Americans voted to block people coming in , the Brits did too in a way with Brexit and a rejection of quotas from Calais , totaly understandable when you look at the social problems being caused in France , Germany, Scandinavia etc... by the recent influx of predominantly economic migrants.

hatrickpatrick

Gringo180 wrote: »

The biggest terrorist attack on U.S soil since pearl harbour was committed by Saudi nationals. Any reason why there not on the restricted list?

Because his asinine ban has nothing to do with security and everything to do with giving his followers a false sense of having achieved something. It's pretty transparent at this stage.

Walter H Price

Gringo180 wrote: »

The biggest terrorist attack on U.S soil since pearl harbour was committed by Saudi nationals. Any reason why there not on the restricted list?

There is currently no travel restrictions on americans traveling to Saudi , this list was based not on majority muslim countries as the media are contuinaly going on about , it was based on the list of countries the OBAMA administraion put travel restricions on. this was done because it was felt americans would be in danger in any of those places due to hostility twords the US , probibly due in part to Obama's drone strikes and awful forighin policy in relation to the arab spring and tackling ISIS.

But i suppose Trump is to blame for that too.

hatrickpatrick

Walter H Price wrote: »

There is currently no travel restrictions on americans traveling to Saudi , this list was based not on majority muslim countries as the media are contuinaly going on about , it was based on the list of countries the OBAMA administraion put travel restricions on. this was done because it was felt americans would be in danger in any of those places due to hostility twords the US , probibly due in part to Obama's drone strikes and awful forighin policy in relation to the arab spring and tackling ISIS.

But i suppose Trump is to blame for that too.

To be fair, it was Trump who first referred to this as a Muslim ban, all the way back in I believe 2015. You can't fault his followers for expecting him to keep his word.

Walter H Price

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

To be fair, it was Trump who first referred to this as a Muslim ban, all the way back in I believe 2015. You can't fault his followers for expecting him to keep his word.

That's what they voted for , to be honest id say allot are a little disappointed its only 7 countries.

A Little Pony

Grayson wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

This is spot on. Merkel is to blame for this. Trump is responding to her actions in Europe. It is mainly because of her which is why the UK is leaving the EU.

So you're saying that Trump has banned all refugees because Merkel let in loads. And that if Merkel hadn't done that, Trump would be allowing in refugees.

It probably would not be an issue and he would not need to be seen as tough on it. But because of Merkel and her economic migrant policy, he has got room to implement such policies as this 90 day ban.

Kur4mA

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

Toddlers have killed more people in the US than terrorists in recent years.

This is terrible but I did a genuine WTF at this post so looked it up and then also genuinely LOL'd when I realised this is a fact...:eek:

eeguy

Kur4mA wrote: »

This is terrible but I did a genuine WTF at this post so looked it up and then also genuinely LOL'd when I realised this is a fact...:eek:

When you look at the amount of gun violence, gang violence, school shootings, and almost weekly massacres, it amazes me that immigration is the hot topic.

I'll say this, the US is amazing at deflecting attention from homegrown problems onto some other less important, but more emotive causes.

mansize

Merkel's refugee policy isn't the reason the UK is leaving the EU- it's EU citizens moving to Britain that's their issue

Trump is using Merkel as an excuse. What % of refugees to Germany have been charged with a criminal offence??? Let alone convincted

Hank Scorpio

eeguy wrote: »

When you look at the amount of gun violence, gang violence, school shootings, and almost weekly massacres, it amazes me that immigration is the hot topic.

I'll say this, the US is amazing at deflecting attention from homegrown problems onto some other less important, but more emotive causes.

In fairness to Trump, he has called out the gun/gang violence non stop in places like Chicago. Makes a change

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/824080766288228352

Kur4mA

eeguy wrote: »

When you look at the amount of gun violence, gang violence, school shootings, and almost weekly massacres, it amazes me that immigration is the hot topic.

I'll say this, the US is amazing at deflecting attention from homegrown problems onto some other less important, but more emotive causes.

Agreed. If they put the same amount of energy and money into fixing their homegrown problems as they put into the PR spin doctoring WAFFLE that gets thrown out by their media, they could achieve some amazing things.

eeguy

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

In fairness to Trump, he has called out the gun/gang violence non stop in places like Chicago. Makes a change

I didn't realise at first how good Trump was at manipulating how shallow media has become.
It takes zero effort to put out a tweet like that, but it takes up so many column inches. He generates so much news that there's no time to focus on a mis-step before something else comes along.
You could see it last week where he held hands with Theresa May. There was no need to do it, but it looked like a strategy where the media could either report on the actual politics of what's going on, or the fact they were holding hands.

Guess which one they went for :rolleyes:

hatrickpatrick

Kur4mA wrote: »

Agreed. If they put the same amount of energy and money into fixing their homegrown problems as they put into the PR spin doctoring WAFFLE that gets thrown out by their media, they could achieve some amazing things.

Fixing their homegrown problems involves doing things currently regarded as totally unpalatable by either the American public (gun control, higher public spending for more social programs and better education, etc) or the vested interests which control Washington (drug legalisation, an end to the for-profit justice system, etc). A politician doing anything meaningful to tackle these problems commits either electoral or financial suicide by doing so, so they focus instead on instant gratification, "feel-good" policies which accomplish absolutely nothing but give the illusion of achievement.

Yes Minister summed this up pretty well when describing why Britain would pay £15 billion for a nuclear missile defence system which would most likely never be used and which replaced a perfectly adequate existing system: "The purpose of Britain's defence policy is not to defend Britain - it's to make the British people believe Britain is being defended".

Skip to 4:45 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHkbDhzXLV4

I particularly enjoy when he says that it's not to make the Russians believe Britain is being defended - "The Russians know it's not."

sbsquarepants

C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »

Since the Boston bombings attacks by ISIS inspired jihadis within the US have killed at least 72 people, in attacks involving at least 15 jihadis, 11 of whom are dead.

Have toddlers really killed 72 people in four years? There are 8 million US toddlers per calender year. 72 murders gives them a murder rate roughly on a par with the Republic of Ireland (36 per 4 million)

Those toddlers are much better armed than our soldiers though.
Cos that's what George Washington wants, one nation, armed to the teeth etc etc.:)

eeguy wrote: »

I'm just wondering would the money be better spent elsewhere. The cost could double or triple NASA's yearly budget.

A couple of years back NASA was forced to cancel one of their mars missions, it was too expensive at $5billion or something like that. At the time the total cost of the mission was enough to keep the "war on terror" going for 3 days.
A €20billion wall is chicken feed in the grand scheme of things.

eeguy

sbsquarepants wrote: »

A couple of years back NASA was forced to cancel one of their mars missions, it was too expensive at $5billion or something like that. At the time the total cost of the mission was enough to keep the "war on terror" going for 3 days.
A €20billion wall is chicken feed in the grand scheme of things.

It sickens me that the priorities are so messed up. The US military gets $600 billion a year. NASA gets $11 billion.

I wonder which gives the best per dollar return on investment. :rolleyes:

4068ac1elhodqr

mansize wrote: »

Merkel's refugee policy isn't the reason the UK is leaving the EU- it's EU citizens moving to Britain that's their issue

Trump is using Merkel as an excuse. What % of refugees to Germany have been charged with a criminal offence??? Let alone convincted

To a large part it actually was, rather a lot of the 1m arrivals in Germany would have a keen interest in moving to towards the uk, they most likely would be arriving with better English language ability than German.

It's not the unskilled French or Spanish that's holed up in Calais jumping into Lorries headed for the white cliffs of Dover.

Agree, there was very, very, few arrests made in Cologne on NYE last year.

sbsquarepants

eeguy wrote: »

It sickens me that the priorities are so messed up. The US military gets $600 billion a year. NASA gets $11 billion.

I wonder which gives the best per dollar return on investment. :rolleyes:

Sadly, I think the answer is in the question. War is a business, business is booming.

Smart Bug

eeguy wrote: »

When you look at the amount of gun violence, gang violence, school shootings, and almost weekly massacres, it amazes me that immigration is the hot topic.

I'll say this, the US is amazing at deflecting attention from homegrown problems onto some other less important, but more emotive causes.

That is the hallmark of a totalitarian regime - rule through judicious use of brutality at home and abroad, control the media, and spread propaganda and fear.

end of the road

Walter H Price wrote: »

Europe (the Franco German allience) turned its back on Brittan and the rest of Europe long before Brexit (hence why the brits voted out)

nope, europe really didn't. britain simply wanted to play the victim/hard done by because they didn't always get what they wanted. all member states have the same rules, all member states discussed suggested and voted for the rules in place. so, every country has not got something they wanted from time to time. that's life as part of a club which one chose to join. as for why people voted out, well a number of reasons exist for that, all of it based on lies. people blame the EU for things successive british governments actually did. they believe that out of the EU government are going to start funding public services including the border force, they aren't. people believe that out of the EU they're will be no black and brown people coming to britain, and that those all ready there will leave. won't happen. they believe that suddenly they're will be a job for everyone, not going to happen. they fail to realise britain always could control immigration even from EU citizens, but refused to fund the relevant enforcement and didn't wish to do it. that won't change. lots more reasons as well which won't be changing.

Walter H Price wrote: »

Liberals are just throwing their toys out of the pram all together

both the far right and far left have always done it. the "liberals" who aren't one single group of people with the same views, but a number of different people and groups with many differing views, are just expressing legitimate concerns based on the nonsense being spouted by the likes of flipflop farage and trump. democracy i'm afraid, the opposition also get to express their viewpoint. democracy isn't simply for the right.

smurfjed

Here is the solution to the Syrian plight ....

[font=Arial, Georgia, serif]DAMASCUS: Syria’s foreign minister on Monday called on the country’s refugees to return home, official media reported, without directly commenting on a US ban targeting them.[/font]
[font=Arial, Georgia, serif]Walid Muallem “renewed the invitation of the government to Syrian refugees living in neighboring countries to return to their country,” the SANA news agency said.[/font]
[font=Arial, Georgia, serif]The minister “stressed the country was ready to receive them and grant them a dignified life,” the agency reported, as Muallem met UN refugee agency chief Filippo Grandi.[/font]

topper75

pilly wrote: »

For all those people who keep repeating the chant that Trump was democratically elected so he can do what he likes, how would you feel if he decided that no Irish could enter America?

There is no RIGHT for the Irish to be in any non-EU or non-CTA country.

I'd feel disappointed but a couple of things would not change:

• Trump is the president
• The people elected him under pre-agreed electoral rules
• The U.S. is a democracy

You can't whinge about any of these points just because the flow isn't going to your liking. If you are democratically in the minority - you suck it up. If you can't accept it - you are quite simply not a democrat.

pilly

topper75 wrote: »

There is no RIGHT for the Irish to be in any non-EU or non-CTA country.

I'd feel disappointed but a couple of things would not change:

• Trump is the president
• The people elected him under pre-agreed electoral rules
• The U.S. is a democracy

You can't whinge about any of these points just because the flow isn't going to your liking. If you are democratically in the minority - you suck it up. If you can't accept it - you are quite simply not a democrat.

Don't know why people's stock answer to this is always we don't have a RIGHT to be somewhere.

So what? Doesn't mean I don't have a RIGHT to not ****ing like it when my freedom is restricted.

I can whinge all I like about whatever I like, that's why I love living in Ireland.

Jimmy Garlic

eeguy wrote: »

When you look at the amount of gun violence, gang violence, school shootings, and almost weekly massacres, it amazes me that immigration is the hot topic.

I'll say this, the US is amazing at deflecting attention from homegrown problems onto some other less important, but more emotive causes.

Illegal immigration is connected to gang and gun violence. The largest, fastest growing and most ruthless gangs in the US are swelling their ranks with members who illegally enter the country from south of the border. Latin American gangs are an absolute scourge in the US.

Walter H Price

pilly wrote: »

Don't know why people's stock answer to this is always we don't have a RIGHT to be somewhere.

So what? Doesn't mean I don't have a RIGHT to not ****ing like it when my freedom is restricted.

I can whinge all I like about whatever I like, that's why I love living in Ireland.

you can not like it all you want but the US is not unique in restricting entry literally every country in the world restricts entry in some way , shape or form and for good reason.

It don't get how this new travel restriction or any immigration process anywhere impacts you're freedom ?

Jimmy Garlic

smurfjed wrote: »

Here is the solution to the Syrian plight ....

I'd love to see some sort of marshal plan for Syria so that the place can be rebuilt. Same for Libya which had the best infrastructure in Africa before all the chaos. We can thank Obama and Clinton for what happened in Libya, Syria and across that entire region. The wars and the migrant crisis were largely generated by their insane policies.

eeguy

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Illegal immigration is connected to gang and gun violence. The largest, fastest growing and most ruthless gangs in the US are swelling their ranks with members who illegally enter the country from south of the border. Latin American gangs are an absolute scourge in the US.

Maybe, but you'd have to wonder how many gang members walked across the border, as opposed to flying from South America, or coming across from the Carribean islands, or are Americans, like the east and west coast African American gangs.
Simply put, if there had always been a wall, would crime in the US be much different?
Or would people have just found alternative methods to entering the country, like they do now.

The idea of the wall is great, it's powerful and emotive, but there's no way it'll actually work in practice.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I'd love to see some sort of marshal plan for Syria so that the place can be rebuilt. Same for Libya which had the best infrastructure in Africa before all the chaos. We can thank Obama and Clinton for what happened in Libya, Syria and across that entire region. The wars and the migrant crisis were largely generated by their insane policies.

That would be a much better use for the money. Invest it in these countries, so that people have less reason to emigrate.

pilly

Walter H Price wrote: »

you can not like it all you want but the US is not unique in restricting entry literally every country in the world restricts entry in some way , shape or form and for good reason.

It don't get how this new travel restriction or any immigration process anywhere impacts you're freedom ?

Well if you don't understand how all of this will impact on us all in the future then I'll leave it at that.

My argument was how would we feel if it was us and others argue that we'd have to take it lying down. I for one would not take it lying down.

If you're willing to sure that's grand for you. For people who live in there own little bubble in Ireland and couldn't care less about the rest of the world of course it's fine. Usually the type of people who don't go out of their own county much.

Walter H Price

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I'd love to see some sort of marshal plan for Syria so that the place can be rebuilt. Same for Libya which had the best infrastructure in Africa before all the chaos. We can thank Obama and Clinton for what happened in Libya, Syria and across that entire region. The wars and the migrant crisis were largely generated by their insane policies.

In all honesty i think Syria and Libya will go the way of Yemen and become failed states , they are destroyed and dived beyond repair their economies are ruined both countries are totally bankrupt and stuck in two pretty much un-winnable civil wars.

Jimmy Garlic

eeguy wrote: »

Maybe, but you'd have to wonder how many gang members walked across the border, as opposed to flying from South America, or coming across from the Carribean islands, or are Americans, like the east and west coast African American gangs.
Simply put, if there had always been a wall, would crime in the US be much different?
Or would people have just found alternative methods to entering the country, like they do now.

The idea of the wall is great, it's powerful and emotive, but there's no way it'll actually work in practice.


That would be a much better use for the money. Invest it in these countries, so that people have less reason to emigrate.

It will work in practice if it is properly patrolled. It will be good for Mexico too. Finally the Mexican authorities might be able to get a grip on large swathes of the north of that country which are basically completely controlled by cartels whose criminal empires rely on a porous border.

Walter H Price

pilly wrote: »

Well if you don't understand how all of this will impact on us all in the future then I'll leave it at that.

My argument was how would we feel if it was us and others argue that we'd have to take it lying down. I for one would not take it lying down.

If you're willing to sure that's grand for you. For people who live in there own little bubble in Ireland and couldn't care less about the rest of the world of course it's fine. Usually the type of people who don't go out of their own county much.

but already Irish people can be be rejected for via's to move to and live in places like Australia , Canada and the US , a friend of mine was rejected for a permanent Ozzy visa about 6 months ago because he had no skills they required effectivly.

The Us have put travel restrictions on what they percieve as hostile nations (Obama designed those 7 as such) why wouldn't they give extra vetting to people coming in from countries where it is know that large swaths of the population harbour strong anti american sentiment ... look at the mess that has been created in France and Germany with the this open border nonsense , id take Trumps approach every day of the week ,twice on sundays over what the French , Germans and Sweeds have done.

This ban doesn't affect us in the slightest and until large swaths of our public are burning the US flag , attacking their embassy and chanting death to america i doubt it will be extended our way.

pilly

Walter H Price wrote: »

but already Irish people can be be rejected for via's to move to and live in places like Australia , Canada and the US , a friend of mine was rejected for a permanent Ozzy visa about 6 months ago because he had no skills they required effectivly.

The Us have put travel restrictions on what they percieve as hostile nations (Obama designed those 7 as such) why wouldn't they give extra vetting to people coming in from countries where it is know that large swaths of the population harbour strong anti american sentiment ... look at the mess that has been created in France and Germany with the this open border nonsense , id take Trumps approach every day of the week ,twice on sundays over what the French , Germans and Sweeds have done.

This ban doesn't affect us in the slightest and until large swaths of our public are burning the US flag , attacking their embassy and chanting death to america i doubt it will be extended our way.

I'm not talking about moving to live in America, Canada or Australia. I'm talking about going on business or holiday.

I agree, it's unlikely to extend to us here but that doesn't mean we should adopt an "I'm alright Jack" attitude.

Ireland could certainly be viewed as a hostile nation by the British, especially in times gone by and even they never stopped us going there. Imagine the uproar if they had?

pilly

Walter H Price wrote: »

but already Irish people can be be rejected for via's to move to and live in places like Australia , Canada and the US , a friend of mine was rejected for a permanent Ozzy visa about 6 months ago because he had no skills they required effectivly.

The Us have put travel restrictions on what they percieve as hostile nations (Obama designed those 7 as such) why wouldn't they give extra vetting to people coming in from countries where it is know that large swaths of the population harbour strong anti american sentiment ... look at the mess that has been created in France and Germany with the this open border nonsense , id take Trumps approach every day of the week ,twice on sundays over what the French , Germans and Sweeds have done.

This ban doesn't affect us in the slightest and until large swaths of our public are burning the US flag , attacking their embassy and chanting death to america i doubt it will be extended our way.

And you know it may not be long before Irish people are burning the US flag, attacking the embassy etc. if the current protests build.

Walter H Price

pilly wrote: »

I'm not talking about moving to live in America, Canada or Australia. I'm talking about going on business or holiday.

I agree, it's unlikely to extend to us here but that doesn't mean we should adopt an "I'm alright Jack" attitude.

Ireland could certainly be viewed as a hostile nation by the British, especially in times gone by and even they never stopped us going there. Imagine the uproar if they had?

That was their choice , the American public have voted for this and that should be respected.

again where was the outrage when Obama did the exact same thing 2014 after he'd royally screwed Iraq , by pulling out early ? or when he spent the last two year drone bombing the Sh!te out of Yemen ? Armed rebels in Libya and fueled a civil war ?

ToddyDoody

Random, completely unrelated fact... possible trolling.

You're less likely to commit suicide in the US but more likely to go insane.

Widdershins

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Rado, completely unrelated fact... possible trolling.

You're less likely to committee suicide in the US but more likely to go insane.

Or more likely to go insane and live to tell the tale. We don't know how many people had gone insane before killing themself.

ToddyDoody

Widdershins wrote: »

Or more likely to go insane and live to tell the tale. We don't know how many people had gone insane before killing themself.

I suppose my pondering hints at, not insanity in Donald Trump but how sane is the man? Show of hands for the option: 'very'.

end of the road

topper75 wrote: »

There is no RIGHT for the Irish to be in any non-EU or non-CTA country.

I'd feel disappointed but a couple of things would not change:

Trump is the president
The people elected him under pre-agreed electoral rules
The U.S. is a democracy


You can't whinge about any of these points just because the flow isn't going to your liking. If you are democratically in the minority - you suck it up. If you can't accept it - you are quite simply not a democrat.

i'm afraid the minority don't have to "suck it up" at all. while they can't change the fact someone is elected until election time, they can protest it and make it difficult to implement changes that will make life worse for people. democracy is for all, not just the people who agree with the policies of those they elect.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I'd love to see some sort of marshal plan for Syria so that the place can be rebuilt. Same for Libya which had the best infrastructure in Africa before all the chaos. We can thank Obama and Clinton for what happened in Libya, Syria and across that entire region. The wars and the migrant crisis were largely generated by their insane policies.

the people of those countries had enough of dictatorial rule. they had enough of being jailed murdered and all else for nothing. while they are now effectively back where they started at least they tried to remove the tirants and for that they should be congratulated for trying to make things better for themselves.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It will work in practice if it is properly patrolled. It will be good for Mexico too. Finally the Mexican authorities might be able to get a grip on large swathes of the north of that country which are basically completely controlled by cartels whose criminal empires rely on a porous border.

it couldn't be patroled effectively. you would need probably half the american population to patrol it effectively. it's a vanity project.

Walter H Price wrote: »

That was their choice , the American public have voted for this and that should be respected.

again where was the outrage when Obama did the exact same thing 2014 after he'd royally screwed Iraq , by pulling out early ? or when he spent the last two year drone bombing the Sh!te out of Yemen ? Armed rebels in Libya and fueled a civil war ?

not our job to respect it and i certainly won't respect the decisian. nothing i can do to change it but i will show it the contempt it deserves. many people did criticise obama's drone strikes and banns but of course facts don't matter. either way what obama did is whataboutery now

InTheTrees

Being able to freely express your disapproval of the government is a cornerstone of a free society.

Widdershins

ToddyDoody wrote: »

I suppose my pondering hints at, not insanity in Donald Trump but how sane is the man? Show of hands for the option: 'very'.

I'd like to talk to him in person to get a feel for what he's really like.

Atoms for Peace

Anarchists have been banned from entering the US for years yet nobody protests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1918

eeguy

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Anarchists have been banned from entering the US for years yet nobody protests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1918

Surely that law should stop all terrorists from entering the US, thus rendering the current rule unnecessary?

Isn't that why I have to fill out the "Are you a terrorist?" box on the immigration form?

Galwayguy35

InTheTrees wrote: »

Being able to freely express your disapproval of the government is a cornerstone of a free society.

And what have you seen over the last week to show that that right has been taken away from them?

Nobody has stopped them protesting.

Donal55

One person stopped from leaving an Irish airport according to 6.1 news.
They didn't state the nationality of the person involved.

InTheTrees

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

InTheTrees wrote: »

Being able to freely express your disapproval of the government is a cornerstone of a free society.

And what have you seen over the last week to show that that right has been taken away from them?

Nobody has stopped them protesting.

It seems that some people are of the opinion that the president should be "given a chance", and that criticism should be tempered.

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

And what have you seen over the last week to show that that right has been taken away from them?

Nobody has stopped them protesting.

no but the trump supporters have whined, moaned, whatabouteried and deflected, more then those against trump could ever do.

Grayson

Widdershins wrote: »

I'd like to talk to him in person to get a feel for what he's really like.

I don't know if that would do any good. I detest the man for what he's said and done. However if I met him and he was charasmatic would I walk away with a false inpression of him.

I don't want to godwin but think of hitler. Some people who met him thought he was amazing. Some people thought he was a tosser who was full of himself. He's an extreme example but I chose it because of that reason. I have no idea if I met him if I would like/hate him.

On a side note, I've often thought that if I were a youth in germany in 1935 would I be pro nazi? I'm older now but I can imagine myself as a 18 year old finding this stuff fascinating. Being a sharply dressed SS soldier with a huge sense of pride. I might have fallen for it.

Widdershins

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge.
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16388184_762424430572437_4846068352408505183_n.jpg?oh=3c5c4a9dfa44990e209cd0184db0b532&oe=5912D7E6

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

I don't know if that would do any good. I detest the man for what he's said and done. However if I met him and he was charasmatic would I walk away with a false inpression of him.

I don't want to godwin but think of hitler. Some people who met him thought he was amazing. Some people thought he was a tosser who was full of himself. He's an extreme example but I chose it because of that reason. I have no idea if I met him if I would like/hate him.

On a side note, I've often thought that if I were a youth in germany in 1935 would I be pro nazi? I'm older now but I can imagine myself as a 18 year old finding this stuff fascinating. Being a sharply dressed SS soldier with a huge sense of pride. I might have fallen for it.

I'm not easily led, but I don't know either.

I suppose we can only guess how we'd feel and behave in certain situations.