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Need property for son

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  • 29-01-2017 11:47am
    #1
    Cath54
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭


    If tenant is given proper written termination notice and declaration , is there any circumstance where they can refuse to move out? Always had good relationship with tenant and never put up rent even tho it is well below market rates. Have given notice we need property next Aug for our son who will need accommodation then as starting college- we flagged this to her last summer so she would be aware we wouldn't be renewing again after that 6 month lease was signed. Was met with hostility and says she is now pregnant and that this changes everything for us. Is this true?
    We are gutted for obvious reasons as we need the place for our own child but also because we have been really decent landlords.


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    #2
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    How long has she been there?


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    #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Once you give her a valid notice with the correct notice period she has to move out. You can tell her being pregnant is not an excuse nor is any other nonsense excuse she might come up with. Just make sure the notice is valid in every way so that if she goes to the RTB she will be told where to go.

    Everyday we read about LLs being extra nice to tenants and then how they act the b*llocks when asked to move. Any LL should take note of this and remember to keep rent as high as possible and meet their obligations but no more in all areas of the tenancy as going above and beyond gets you zero thanks.


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    #4
    Boater123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 312 ✭✭Boater123


    Sorry to tell you this but yes tenants have been known to stay after the termination date. When correct procedure's with notice of termination were followed it's called illegal over holding.

    Your tenant has fired a warning shot across your bows that they are going to be difficult. Seek proper legal advice now as these things have been known to drag out, sometimes as long as two years so time is of the essence.

    Perhaps contact the free legal advice service in your area?
    http://www.flac.ie/help/centres/


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    #5
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    It may be worth giving her notice now, your son can move in early (need it for June not august) so that if she tries illegally over holding you have time to begin the procedure of getting her out.


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    #6
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    Louis Thoughtless Clothespin wrote: »

    Everyday we read about LLs being extra nice to tenants and then how they act the b*llocks when asked to move. Any LL should take note of this and remember to keep rent as high as possible and meet their obligations but no more in all areas of the tenancy as going above and beyond gets you zero thanks.

    Exactly

    No favours, it's a business.

    Keep them on the edge.

    Been a landlord for the last year, got out few weeks ago, it's a horrible business to be in.

    Had to walk on eggs shells around them and hope to god they don't stick there heels in.

    Felt like I had no control at all and those ***** knew it.

    OP thread carefully with them of they are giving lip already, law is with them if they are there a few years.

    Have a plan b for your son just incase things turn ugly.

    Horrible that you have to have a plan b, but this is property Ireland 2017

    Friend had to pay tenants compensation to get his out, it was pay 2k or have them stay after notice for god knows how long, solicitors, courts, prtb, nightmare scenario


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    #7
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Louis Thoughtless Clothespin wrote: »
    Once you give her a valid notice with the correct notice period she has to move out. You can tell her being pregnant is not an excuse nor is any other nonsense excuse she might come up with. Just make sure the notice is valid in every way so that if she goes to the RTB she will be told where to go.

    Everyday we read about LLs being extra nice to tenants and then how they act the b*llocks when asked to move. Any LL should take note of this and remember to keep rent as high as possible and meet their obligations but no more in all areas of the tenancy as going above and beyond gets you zero thanks.

    In fairness you won't read much about the tenants who have had low rent, were given notice and moved out.


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    #8
    Boater123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 312 ✭✭Boater123


    davindub wrote: »
    In fairness you won't read much about the tenants who have had low rent, were given notice and moved out.

    Very true...and in numbers these tenants surely far outweigh the bad few.

    However, the stories of the bad few should incentive enough to heed Jasper Crashing Raid advice. Keep it professional it's a business. Being a LL that goes over the top always comes back to bite you sooner or later.


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    #9
    Cath54
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Cath54


    Thank you all for your replies. The tenant has been there few years but we gave her head up last year because we didn't want to just land her in it suddenly even tho she is entitled to 196 days notice. We just wanted to do the decent thing by her. Feeling like complete fools now.


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    #10
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Boater123 wrote: »
    Very true...and in numbers these tenants surely far outweigh the bad few.

    However, the stories of the bad few should incentive enough to heed Jasper Crashing Raid advice. Keep it professional it's a business. Being a LL that goes over the top always comes back to bite you sooner or later.

    True enough, it needs to work as an investment as well.

    But I definitely do not agree with the rent being kept as high as possible, leads to issues like rent controls, etc. The market needs to be reasonable on both the tenant and LL side otherwise legislation will attempt to address.


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    #11
    Wheety
    Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    Give her the minimum required notice starting now.


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    #12
    Cath54
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Cath54


    Wheety wrote: »
    Give her the minimum required notice starting now.

    Yes we have done


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    #13
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    davindub wrote: »
    In fairness you won't read much about the tenants who have had low rent, were given notice and moved out.

    In the past or recently? I have heard of a few landlords who are having difficulty recovering property from sitting tenants, where their rent is 50-60% market rate. For the reason that their rent was so low, they can't afford anything else in the area they "want" to live. So moving out keeps getting delayed until they dig their heels in. I can understand, when your rent goes up by 4 figures, its going to be difficult to adjust. In every case its the landlords fault though.


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    #14
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    In the past or recently? I have heard of a few landlords who are having difficulty recovering property from sitting tenants, where their rent is 50-60% market rate. For the reason that their rent was so low, they can't afford anything else in the area they "want" to live. So moving out keeps getting delayed until they dig their heels in. I can understand, when your rent goes up by 4 figures, its going to be difficult to adjust. In every case its the landlords fault though.

    Exactly what I said, you only hear the bad cases, I understand why it can happen but it's not the norm. Bad tenants exist just as do bad ll's. Doesn't mean the majority are going to cause trouble.


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    #15
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    davindub wrote: »
    In fairness you won't read much about the tenants who have had low rent, were given notice and moved out.

    Thank you; as i did recently. Maybe landlords forget that a rental is our home.


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    #16
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Cath54 wrote: »
    Yes we have done

    Have you done it in writing?


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    #17
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    pilly wrote: »
    Have you done it in writing?
    This could be as simple as a text or email either. Something you have a record of.

    Edit: Ignore me I got my threads mixed up. Thought this was notification that a tenant was planning to stay on past the end of the lease.


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    #18
    Cath54
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Cath54


    TheChizler wrote: »
    This could be as simple as a text or email either. Something you have a record of.

    Yes gave written notification and written declaration as to reason we can't renew lease.


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    #19
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Cath54 wrote: »
    Yes gave written notification and written declaration as to reason we can't renew lease.

    I suppose that's all you can do for now then.

    Terrible situation to be in when you've been good enough to give a person adequate notice. Hopefully she will just find something else.


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    #20
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Cath54 wrote: »
    Yes gave written notification and written declaration as to reason we can't renew lease.

    Did you do it as per RTB guidelines?


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    #21
    Cath54
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Cath54


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Did you do it as per RTB guidelines?

    Yes as per guidelines. We went by the sample templates on their website.


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    #22
    Cath54
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Cath54


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    In the past or recently? I have heard of a few landlords who are having difficulty recovering property from sitting tenants, where their rent is 50-60% market rate. For the reason that their rent was so low, they can't afford anything else in the area they "want" to live. So moving out keeps getting delayed until they dig their heels in. I can understand, when your rent goes up by 4 figures, its going to be difficult to adjust. In every case its the landlords fault though.
    Sorry to resurrect this post, but can anyone pm me details of a solicitor in Dublin who can advise us? This thing is escalating out of control.


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    #23
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Cath54 wrote: »
    Sorry to resurrect this post, but can anyone pm me details of a solicitor in Dublin who can advise us? This thing is escalating out of control.

    Is she definitely digging her heels in?


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    #24
    Cath54
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Cath54


    Looks like it. Locks changed and tenant won't speak with us directly only thru a third party who we don't know.


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    #25
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Cath54 wrote:
    Looks like it. Locks changed and tenant won't speak with us directly only thru a third party who we don't know.


    Well she's done something illegal there by changing the locks. Disgraceful carry on.


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    #26
    groovyg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    Cath54 wrote: »
    Looks like it. Locks changed and tenant won't speak with us directly only thru a third party who we don't know.

    You'll need to put the pressure on now, thats a big no no tenants are not supposed to change the locks. Have you contacted the RTB ?


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    #27
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    groovyg wrote:
    You'll need to put the pressure on now, thats a big no no tenants are not supposed to change the locks. Have you contacted the RTB ?


    Have to be honest but I've yet to hear of a case where RTB helped a LL, bloody disgrace.


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    #28
    groovyg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    pilly wrote: »
    Have to be honest but I've yet to hear of a case where RTB helped a LL, bloody disgrace.

    I totally agree, I've seen plenty of cases where landlords were left out of pocket as a result of tenants overholding or worse wrecking the place.
    Can the landlord get a locksmith around to change the locks so they can have access to the house. Its totally illegal what they have done.


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    #29
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    In the past or recently? I have heard of a few landlords who are having difficulty recovering property from sitting tenants, where their rent is 50-60% market rate. For the reason that their rent was so low, they can't afford anything else in the area they "want" to live. So moving out keeps getting delayed until they dig their heels in. I can understand, when your rent goes up by 4 figures, its going to be difficult to adjust. In every case its the landlords fault though.

    Seeing it from both sides.. if they are working then they need to be in that area. I had to move 200 miles this year as the only property I could afford was up here. It is not something to be undertaken lightly but I knew why my ll needed the house and we got on well. Just moved as soon as I could.


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    #30
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Seeing it from both sides.. if they are working then they need to be in that area. I had to move 200 miles this year as the only property I could afford was up here. It is not something to be undertaken lightly but I knew why my ll needed the house and we got on well. Just moved as soon as I could.

    I see what you're saying Graces7 but it's not a private LL's problem to provide accommodation for someone just because they can't find somewhere else.


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    #31
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,474 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Cath54 wrote: »
    Looks like it. Locks changed and tenant won't speak with us directly only thru a third party who we don't know.
    I think it may be worth getting proper legal advice on this.

    I wouldn't be too quick to get a locksmith to change the lock as this might be construed as 'interfering with their right to peaceful enjoyment of their home'.

    It might however be a breach of their tenancy agreement which in itself may be grounds for issuing a separate termination notice for which a much shorter period, than that required under section 4 of the RTA, might apply.

    Whatever you do, make sure you do it by the book. You don't want things getting even messier.


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