Moral quandary.

LegacyUser

Hi!
This is something that has been bothering me a lot for the last 2 weeks, and I wonder if you have any advice. Sorry it will be long.
My daughter, just 18, 1st year in college, lovely, successful at everything she wants to, intelligent, personable, slightly spoilt in terms of attention and love, has just disappointed me immensely, and I am finding it hard to regain trust in her.
I found out about 2 weeks ago, by chance (she had left her Facebook page open on my computer), that she has been buying large quantities of alcohol weekly, to purvey it to her sibling's friends, who are 15/16, for about 5 months. By large I mean up to 150 Euro at one go, needing her boyfriend's help to carry them etc. He has been involved in this, he is two years older, but I do not think he started it.
The messenger conversations read like drug dealing, it was awful to see.
She says it wasn't for the money, as she only got tips or the change... She did to be 'nice' and because 'better they get from me who knows them than somebody else'.
Actually, it is not, as we live in a small town, the parents of the buyers are friends, acquaintances, colleagues, some would be important to her future career.
Also, she studies for a career that requires a clean police record.
We pay everything for her, her fees, clothes, books, food, holidays, outings etc as she needs. She lives at home, as we are near the college and have no money to put her in rental.
She has no pocket money, but we have been encouraging her to get herself a part-time job, as she has a lot of time on her hands, which she generally spends hanging out with her boyfriend, who is repeating his year and also has a lot of free time.
First I find it incredibly stupid. If she had got caught, her whole future could have been at stake, as the parents would turn against her etc.
Secondly I find it incredibly immoral. I am not for total prohibition, but to regularly provide drink to young lads in such quantities, knowing they will be unsupervised, is shocking to me. It is different if adults are around, or if it had been a once-off. Anything could have happened, and she would have been responsible to some extent.
Finally, I can't believe she would be brave enough, secretive enough, in one word, 'criminal' enough, to do something illegal like that, on an organised scale.
We have not been involved in any illegal activity ourselves, nor our friends or family ever, and it is difficult to accept.
My husband prefers to keep the peace, so didn't really do nor say anything about it, it was/is up to me.
At the beginning I wondered if I should warn the parents. Then I felt I could not jeopardise my own daughter's future for the good of others. Then I felt maybe she should get a talk from a Gardai.
But I only told her to stop all those activities (she contacted the lads in front of me), and stopped her from going to her boyfriend's house, from where she used to buy the drink. That was hard for her to accept, as she loves being in his house.
I told her I had lost trust in her, and she would have to work hard to regain it. But just this week she asked me if she could go to his house, so I feel it is not enough sanction-wise, as she doesn't seem to have understood.
She probably thinks I'm making a bid deal of it, everybody does it, etc, though she hasn't said it like that. I don't really know if she is even ashamed.
I can't do much more sanction-wise, she is 18 and could be quite rebellious if she wanted. For example, her boyfriend's parents would take her in no problem, and she would be delighted. I do not want that to happen.
I do remind her we pay her college fees, and it is very hard for us, as we are just above the grant level. But she knows I would never stop her from continuing her studies.
So, here I am since, tortured and losing sleep, as I can't trust her anymore and she doesn't really care.
Can you think of anything I could do that could relieve me?
Thank you.

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NinjaTruncs

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Where did you get that from? You leaving out the bit that a minor can drink in a private place with the consent of their parents/guardian, which I would assume these kids don't have as they are getting someone else to buy their drink.

tcif

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I completely disagree! I don't think the OP is overreacting at all and would find the above attitude on an adult regularly selling large amounts of alcohol to underage minors to be a worrying one.

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Really? Because if that was my child she was selling it to I'd raise holy hell with the gardai and do my level best to make sure there was a price to be paid.


OP, I'm sorry for the situation you find yourself in and I don't have much advice to offer, I'm afraid, other than to say I do think you have things in perspective and I don't think you're overreacting. You're obviously a decent, responsible person and I hope some of that has rubbed off on your daughter, for all she's up to right now. Maybe if your husband got on side more and the two of talked to her together, tried to get her to understand the consequences for her (and those kids) of what's she's doing you might be able to get through to her. Best of luck!

Xterminator

Hi OP

The thing that stood out to me was you comparing a stupid decision like buying alcohol for underage people with drug dealing.

I understand you may be disappointed at your daughter, (and i think you have a right to be) but you are over-reacting IMO.

I am going to ask you, did you never drink before you were of age? i know i did. Please see through your own hyperbole and see it for what it really was. A bad decision that might have had consequences ; but not the consequences you are imagining.

It is also against the law for an adult to buy alcohol for a young person under the age of 18. The penalty is a maximum fine of €1500.
In a private residence, alcohol cannot be served to a visiting young person (under 18) without the explicit consent of that young person’s parent or guardian.

It is a misdemeanour; and unlikely to be prosecuted. however if one of the underage people had an accident etc your daughter might leave herself open to a claim.

i think in your dealings with your daughter you don't really treat her like and adult. perhaps now is a good time to re-examine that.

pwurple

I think it's good you discussed it with her, but did you go through it together, or just lay down the law?

At that age, being accepted and getting respect from a group of peers, is more important to her, than her parent's approval.

Did you talk through the consequences, for those 15 year olds and their brain development, for herself and her public image, for you and your family. Did you listen to her, and find out why she was doing it, how it got started?

If she sees nothing wrong with it, she may go back to it again. 

And one last thing. An 18 year old with no spending money of her own... in my experience these are the people who struggle with what to do with money when they eventually get some. Learning to budget, to control personal finances are all very important skills which she should have by now. If you are handing over money for pre-arranged outings and food all this time, instead of letting her control it herself, she is likely to be quite naive in that respect. The fact that she was taking no fee, and taking that risk for nothing looks like a bunch of money savvy 15 year olds walking all over her. In one way, she was completely taken advantage of, and this is what you should be working on, as it will happen again and again if she can't recognise that.

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tcif

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No, I don't expect someone else to take responsibility but I don't expect an adult to procure it for them either to fund her social life in college. There's a difference between shifting blame and apportioning it squarely where it belongs (and before you ask, yes, I would include my own child in their share for that).

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LegacyUser

Thank you for the answers.
Just a few points.
I did not really compare what she was doing to drug-dealing, just saying the Messenger conversations about when and where to meet, exchange of money to get the goods etc sounded like drug-dealing, so much so that I had to read more to realise it was drink.

The consequences to her studies or her career are hard to explain without revealing too much, but let's say she was very silly to provide drink to these kids in particular.
She loves the town we are in and might not want to go away.

We do not treat her as an adult, because apart from turning 18, nothing has changed in her life. She is as dependent on us as before, even though I try by all means to make her more autonomous (ask her to take the bus instead of asking for a lift, encouraged her since September to get a job, and that is why she has no pocket money, so she 'needs' a job - she has been very reticent about this, and prefers not having money than working I think! I asked to contribute her fair share at home, which she hasn't at all, etc).
She seems to want all the perks of being an adult (no checking on her, freedom to spend as many nights with her boyfriend as she wants, etc) without any of the responsibilities.
That would be the case with many young students at home, I'd say...

We could maybe give her a weekly allowance, for her to budget her lunches at least (she doesn't go out much at all, and at the moment we don't buy/ pay much else for her), but it wouldn't change her carefree attitude to money I think.

If I reprimand her for not pulling her weight, or being lazy about looking for a job, she just thinks I am nasty and annoying and resent her nice life!

Of course I explained the possible consequences to her and others, though she already knew them, as she is bright. But she hadn't realised them fully I'd say.
I actually started out the conversation by asking her why she was doing it. She said 'to be nice' (she is very self-confident, very admired, and does not need these kids' approval though. She is very 'cool'), and ' because they asked'!

I know the fine is 1500 Euro, that's nearly half of the fees we pay, and it would have been us that would have paid, immediately anyway... as she has no income.

Both her father and me talking to her together could make a difference maybe, but he prefers to sweep problems under the carpet, or gets irrationally angry.

I might ask an aunt she really respects and love to talk to her? What do you think? I haven't mentioned it to anybody (family or friends) yet at all, as I think it would hurt her quite a lot. They have this image of her as being perfect!

LegacyUser

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It would be different if it had been a once-off, but she did every week-end for 5 months until she got caught (by me luckily, not the Gardai or parents)... That's why it is keeping me awake at night.
Also, I truly think it would have been awful if something had happened to one of these kids. It is quite common where we live that things go wrongly when unsupervised underage drinking is involved to such an extent. ( Apparently heavy sessions in a shed, with parents always away).
How stupid is she? That's another thing that's shocking to me.

GingerLily

Your daughter could get in a lot of trouble for this and as you're supporting her through college you have the right to demand she stops breaking the law while living in your home.

With the volume / frequency she's doing it, it's a sh*tstorm waiting to happen. You just need one parent to be told that it's all your daughters fault and the whole thing will spiral.

Airyfairy12

I feel like youre over reacting a bit, if she was 25 and buying drink for minors id see your point but she's only 2/3 years older than the lads she's buying the drink for, legally she's an adult but mentally 18 year olds are immature and still think like teenagers. Id just explain to her the trouble she'll be in if she got caught and how it could effect her future.

As for spoiling your daughter by paying for everything and acting like her personal piggy bank, she'll never truly be able to stand on her own two feet or have any appreciation for money if you keep that up.

LegacyUser

I am fairly sure she has stopped, the lads said they'd find somebody else!
As I said above, we give her just enough for her midday food, and that's since September. We haven't paid for anything apart from the necessary (except for classes for her instrument, but that might stop!).
She wasn't using our money, rather getting their money, buying and then giving the bought goods...
Yes, I shouldn't have read her Facebook Messenger, but a message popped up when I opened my computer and it was from one of the lads, and it sounded so strange I needed to read further. I didn't read any other conversations.
I myself think she should pay her way as much as possible, but she has been unsuccessful at getting a job, as she has no work experience really. One of the things she did these 2 last weeks was redouble efforts to get a part-time job, as she knew it would be one way to get my off her back!

Teyla Emmagan

I think you're right to be angry over this OP. It actually is a big deal. All it takes is one accident, caused by drink your daughter is supplying and you might never forgive yourself. I know my parents would absolutely have killed any of us in that position. I would talk to your community Guard, get him to speak to her. Given all you are doing for her I really think she should respect your wishes on this. She's being irresponsible, stupid and selfish.

LegacyUser

Op for what it's worth I personally don't think you are overreacting.

I was field drinking from the age of 14 and honestly some of the things I got up to were unbelievable and my parents would to this day have a heart attack if they knew. Funnily enough when I turned 18 I never once bought alcohol for anyone underage. I'm in my 30s now and I just think it takes one simple accident for one of those teenagers and it will be a **** storm for your daughter and you!!!!

Maybe you are a little too easy on her? You say her boyfriends family would take her in should that situation ever arise? Could you not speak to them and suggest that maybe that wouldn't be a good idea if she was to go off in a huff when you put your foot down. Would they be on your side or her side?

dellas1979

I suppose its a shock to you that your daughter is (stupid smart) to pull a stunt like that.

You have to give it to her though...quite enterprising!

I suppose also, youve tried to raise her to take responsibilty, think about her actions, and think of consequences?

Am not sure, because you seem to be doing all this for her.

I'd have one final chat with her (and a very serious tone chat), that her future is hers. If she is willing to gamble doing such things, and potentially getting into serious trouble (affecting her degree/even life/career opportunities), why would you gamble paying for her college. If she wants to be treated as an adult, she must behave like one. Remind her thats her choice.

I'd also show her a youtube video or something about young people (with no cop on) and the consequences of drinking. i.e., if someone had drank a bottle of vodka and something serious happened, she'd be responsible for buying it/supplying it to a minor. Ask her how she would feel cope/with that.

Ellie2008

I'd leave the Guards out of it, it is technically after all a crime.

OP - you were right to take it up with her but by overreacting you risk undermining your point in her eyes. She's barely an adult, only a couple of years older than the people that she's buying the drink for & perhaps she wants to be cool in their eyes. When you're 18 it's inconceivable to you that anything could ever go wrong, I'd try and exposin calmly to her the type of things that could go wrong but don't cite extreme ones.

As for being spoilt I was a pain in the ass in every sense of the word at 18, I grew out of it, very few people don't. If she managed she get the points for her course she's obviously capable of hard work. A job would be good to though.

18 is not old these days, the parenting is not done yet.

My main point is don't put a gulf between you & her by losing the rag & being dramatic. Point out that drunken accidents, fights that end in serious injury & underage pregnancy are all things that can flow from drinking at 15-16.

As for the person saying if she was supplying my child...you are responsible for your own 15-16 year old who they are with & what they are doing.

orthsquel

Bothered. wrote: »

I might ask an aunt she really respects and love to talk to her? What do you think? I haven't mentioned it to anybody (family or friends) yet at all, as I think it would hurt her quite a lot. They have this image of her as being perfect!

I wonder OP do you have this image of her too? Maybe she is trying to be imperfect in other people's eyes?

She probably doesn't see the consequences of her actions in the same way you do. She might dismiss buying the drink as better to get from someone they know, rather than a randomer as protecting those teens in a way and probably can't see the issue of them being drunk and unsupervised or any consequence as a result of their behaviour.

tbh I'd be keen to make her understand that she might not want to be the go-to person for buying minors drink. Not because of penalties and legal issues, not because of consequence, but that she might get dragged into doing it regularly at the cost of her own time and reputation or even asked in the future for something beyond alcohol, larger quantities or even getting ripped off. I'd be wondering if she might well be popular but considered a bit of a people pleaser or "soft touch" who will do things to be liked or considered cool but to her own detriment.

As for a job, regardless of what's she studying it would be to her benefit to start earning, she would be at an advantage having part time work, work during the summer all organised in advance of her peers and get some work experience under her belt. Even volunteering would be worth it these days (try volunteer ireland) or even considering some of those youth/eu/cultural exchange programmes (e.g EIL explore) out there particularly if there's some related to her studies. At least there would be something to fall back on, if should she finish her studies and doesn't immediately get a job related to her field, at least she'll have some work experience completed or at least be in the tax system somewhere. I know she'll probably want to hang out with the boyfriend and while that's all well and good and what we all want (especially when we're young) at some point her boyfriend is going to have to have a job too and she'll find out quick enough that when someone is busy working they won't have as much available time as they once used to.

DoctorBoo

I don't think you are overreacting. I actually think you might be a bit naive to believe her when she says she wasn't doing it for the money. .... not very believable I think.

Greenduck

Hi OP,

Firstly, I know it might seem like a massive deal to you but I can really sense that you are so disappointed and let down by her actions. It does not reflect you or your family/her upbringing however. Young people make mistakes all the time and I know you said she did it to be 'nice' but to me it seems like she did it for popularity which we all know is usually high on any teenagers agenda!

Secondly, I cant understand why she has no job? I worked from when I was 14 and there is always little jobs teenagers can get. Maybe packing shelves in a shop or working in a restaurant. You dont need any experience and I think it would teach her how to respect money. The biggest way you can punish her now is by cutting her off. If she wants something she has to work for it. If she cant get a job then maybe helping you in the house/babysitting etc. She'll soon learn 'to care' and perhaps it might teach her how to behave in a mature way.

I know it seems like the end of the world at the moment but you'll probably laugh about it when shes older (like I do with my folks about my antics as a teenager).

Eimee90

I think the Op has shown excellent responsibility. Others may not think its serious but let me tell you if one kid she sold drink to got wrecked drunk and injured due to the alcohol. The adult is responsible here and her daughter is an adult under the eyes of the law . I find her behaviour odd, its one thing to go drinking under age, but to deliberately go out of her way to buy and sell it to minors is odd.

freshpopcorn

I wouldn't get the Gardai to have a chat with her just yet.
If she was going out with her friends who were seventeen and bought them a drink of take no notice of it. I know when I was that age most seventeen year olds didn't have a problem getting served unless it was a city center club/bar.
Tell your daughter this story. In my local town a few years ago a young guy who was around fifteen or sixteen killed himself and he had a fair amount of alcohol in mid system and an older guy ended up in court because of supplying him the drink. Now ask you daughter how would she feel if this happened to her?
Would she feel guilty?
How would people treat her locally in the future? Ie if she wanted go settle down in your area for a job or starting a family.
Does she want to have it thrown in her face about her actions that caused something bad to happen or if she had kids/husband would she want people saying it to them.

Koptain Liverpool

tcif wrote: »

I completely disagree! I don't think the OP is overreacting at all and would find the above attitude on an adult regularly selling large amounts of alcohol to underage minors to be a worrying one.



Really? Because if that was my child she was selling it to I'd raise holy hell with the gardai and do my level best to make sure there was a price to be paid.


OP, I'm sorry for the situation you find yourself in and I don't have much advice to offer, I'm afraid, other than to say I do think you have things in perspective and I don't think you're overreacting. You're obviously a decent, responsible person and I hope some of that has rubbed off on your daughter, for all she's up to right now. Maybe if your husband got on side more and the two of talked to her together, tried to get her to understand the consequences for her (and those kids) of what's she's doing you might be able to get through to her. Best of luck!

Don't listen to this hysterical response OP.

You are way over-reacting as many other respondents have correctly pointed pointed out.
Yes what she has been doing is wrong and could land her in trouble with the authorities.
So discussing it with her like an adult should be sufficient.

Koptain Liverpool

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Given all you are doing for her I really think she should respect your wishes on this. She's being irresponsible, stupid and selfish.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

She's being young! Don't be so dramatic.

Big Bag of Chips

elsa21 wrote: »

I find her behaviour odd, its one thing to go drinking under age, but to deliberately go out of her way to buy and sell it to minors is odd.

And where do you think most underage teenagers get their drink? Their friends with ID buy it for them. She's not "buying and selling it". They are giving her their money and she is going in to buy it. Hardly a criminal mastemind!! She's barely 18 herself, but obviously has ID. Somebody bought it for her before she turned 18... (Her boyfriend?) And now she's doing the same. When a few of the friends turn 18, they'll have no more need for her, because they'll be the ones "supplying" their younger siblings and friends.

I think buying drink for 16/17 year olds is one thing. Buying for 14 year olds is another.

Talk to her without lecturing. You can tell her you're disappointed, but you understand that underage drinking goes on. You can highlight the potential problems to her, but she will ultimately make her own decision on it. She's a teenager and thinks you haven't a clue. To have any chance of her listening to you you are going to have to stop catastrophising! Teenagers are 'infallible'. Nothing bad will ever happen them. Or so they believe. So the more sever the warning the more likely they are to roll their eyes at the "old woman" who hasn't a clue.

You need to find her level, and appeal to her common sense. Not lecture her on where she's going wrong.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

It sounds to me like you have her on a bit of a pedestal and consequently this is much more of a knock to you than it needs to be. Is she your eldest?

My daughter, just 18, 1st year in college, lovely, successful at everything she wants to, intelligent, personable, slightly spoilt in terms of attention and love, has just disappointed me immensely, and I am finding it hard to regain trust in her.

You have teenagers, they're going to do stupid hurtful things. What she's been doing is stupid and potentially harmful, but your reaction to it is out of proportion imo.

So, here I am since, tortured and losing sleep, as I can't trust her anymore and she doesn't really care.

I dunno, maybe it's just me but this seems like the kind of reaction that's justified when you find out she was high at her cousin's christening or had friends over when you were gone and the house got trashed. Between her and at least one younger sibling coming up behind her, you are going to run yourself ragged if this is how you react to these things.

You seem like a very law-abiding, straight-laced family, and I don't mean that in a pejorative way, it's just that the apple could fall a bit of a distance from the tree before there's anything to really freak out about. She didn't do anything that she thought was wrong to do, according to her she did something loads of people do, in an attempt to be nice, and to stop the kids getting the drink somewhere else.

If I know teenagers, I think there's a chance you might have undermined yourself here. She thinks you're overreacting so she's not going to take you seriously - and as you point out with what a small town it is and because of the career she's aiming at, there are things she needs to hear and understand about the choices she's been making. I think the idea of getting her aunt to talk to her might be a good one.

And I'm curious, how old are these kids and how many of them are there? There's a big difference between getting €150 worth of drink for four kids and for ten of them. One of my friend's older sister used to get us drink but she'd only get a certain amount and only when she knew how many people were there.

If it's as small a place as you say I wonder about the off-licence as well. An 18 year old coming in getting €150 worth of drink (presumably quite a few different types of drink) should ring bells, surely?

Teyla Emmagan

I think most parents would be a lot more dramatic if they found their fifteen year old off their head with drink she'd bought them.

meeeeh

I think that any responsibile parent would be worried. In my time I wouldn't know many 18 years old girls who would have such a close relationship with 15 years olds to supply them large amounts of alcohol for moths and on regular basis. She is either very immature or she has a little profitable enterprise going.

I don't think there is much you can do but you should keep an eye on her. As a parent I would be worried too. She is living under your roof so there can still be some ground rules set. And presurize her to get a job. I wouldn't overly worry about moving in with bf and his parents. Most people wouldn't be overly enthusiastic having penniless lodger indefinitely.

Big Bag of Chips

You could always go and speak to the manager of the off-licence!! It's not really his problem, as he is within the law selling to an over 18. But he mightn't be too eager to serve her if he knows she's passing it on.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for the answers.
First of all, she has stopped doing it for more than two weeks, and will not do it again, I am sure.
I am also fairly sure it was not for profit, she is clueless about money (and maths!) and has very few expenses. The maximum she would have got is 10 € from a big order I'd say.
Second, she was certainly not doing it for popularity. As I was saying, she is already very ' cool' and self-assured.
Also, these kids are friends of her sibling, that's how she knows them, they were in the same school. They are 16-17. Apparently they were quite a few at those parties.
She is not a regular drinker herself (and we are not either), but supervised moderate drinking was not forbidden for her at parties etc. from when she was 16... I wouldn't be happy though providing drink to underage kids at our home without their parents' express consent.
I am not extremely straight-laced, but I am interested in my children having good ethics, especially since we are quite open-minded and liberal in many ways.
I didn't go over the top, and she doesn't really think I massively overacted. Just that at the time she didn't think and didn't see it as a big deal.
The main reasons why it was a fairly big deal for me, and comes back to the front of my mind every few days since, is that I think she was very stupid, and it worries me for her future. Will she do some things just because she is asked, just to please, without really thinking the ramifications through?
We would encourage her to always think of the consequences of her actions. Is this just a silly mistake or does it show her fundamental naivety?
Another thing worrying me is that her boyfriend helped her in this activity, rather than telling her it was silly to do something illegal and fairly dangerous like that. He doesn't seem to have great moral fiber either, and he is 2 years older.
The main thing I'm retaining from all of this is that my expectations for her behavior are too high, and therefore I am disappointed. Though I know teenagers in general very well (and her in particular), and expect some ridiculous behavior, and it is far from the first time I am confronted by it, I am still shocked!

LegacyUser

Also, she has been looking for a job, and more earnestly since Christmas, and the only possibility was sales door-to-door with Phonewatch, and that would be more or less useless for her, she has no commercial sense.
You do need experience for pub or restaurant work apparently now! She has never even found baby-sitting jobs, our area is not good for it at all.

Glitter

Op, bright kids do stupid things.
I was the model Little Miss Perfect until I was about 15.
Then I went pure mad for a year or two, rebellious nonsense all over the place, drinking, smoking, lying about who I was with and when, even not coming home for days on end once. I was a horror show and my parents were worried sick. I still feel guilty now and again about it all and I'm 35 now!
But then I leveled out and calmed down again in my Leaving Cert year.
Like a storm had passed.
Sometimes teenage hormones just send you haywire for a bit.
If this is the worst of it, it's really not too bad in the long run.

Big Bag of Chips

Bothered. wrote: »

As I was saying, she is already very ' cool' and self-assured.....

...I think she was very stupid, and it worries me for her future. Will she do some things just because she is asked, just to please, without really thinking the ramifications through?

We would encourage her to always think of the consequences of her actions. Is this just a silly mistake or does it show her fundamental naivety?

To be honest, the above 3 posts could describe almost any other teenager in the country! Very few 18 year olds, whilst maintaining an outward appearance of cool and self-confidence, really are!! Very few teenagers are self assured and certain of themselves. Peer pressure and wanting to appear popular cannot be discounted at that age. Yes, it shows a fundamental naivety, but at 18 she supposed have that!! She's not worldly wise. She might be sensible, and well brought up, but she is still little more than a school child with little or no life experience.... But she does have ID

She's 18. She's struggling with not quite being a teenager and not quite being an adult. I don't think you have too much to worry about with regards her future. She's still growing up. One day she'll get there!

I'd have been more disappointed by the fact she was doing it for free more or less rather than trying to make money from it than from her selling it in the first place.

Ferrari3600

I'm inclined to agree with those who say the OP is not over-reacting.

There is plenty of research that indicates that those who start regularly drinking before the age of 21 are more likely to develop problematic relationships with alcohol.

I know in this country it is considered normal to start drinking in fields from the age of 15 or so, but it really isn't something that should be encouraged.

Eimee90

This is where the problem is. No wonder we have such a problem with alcohol in this country. Its not good enough to say they all do it sure or sure 16 not 14 is better.

You're not going to stop all kids drinking underage. But people should at least admit there's a problem with it and its not ok.

Op. If you have spoken with her and she has stopped. Trust her and give her a chance. Was a foolish move on her part so hopefully she has learnt from it.

BattleCorp

Only seeing this thread now.

Personally I don't think the OP has over-reacted.

Her daughter is 18 so therefore legally an adult. Supplying alcohol to minors is a criminal offence. Anybody who thinks that the offence of supplying alcohol to minors is a misdemeanor and wouldn't be prosecuted is deluded. All it takes is one complaint from one parent and the Gardaí will have to act.

Next point. Background checks. If someone wants to go into certain fields such as social work, working with minors etc. they need background checks. I think a conviction for supplying alcohol to minors could prevent them getting Garda clearance to work with minors.

Look, it's not murder, it's not drug dealing. It's probably something most of us have done in the past on a small scale but, if prosecuted, could make a difference to the OP's daughter's career.

OP, you've spoken to your daughter. Voiced your displeasure. Hopefully corrected her actions so that she understands the consequences and won't do it again. What more can you do? You can't keep on punishing her. Time to move on.

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meeeeh

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That is all grand and rosy until someone lands in hospital with alcohol poisoning or falls, gets hit by a car or similar. Judging by the amounts supplied it would be possible. I wouldn't be happy if my child did it for profit but supplying that much alcohol for nothing is sheer stupidity and certainly not something I would be ignore.

Also we all did stupid things when young but as a parent I certainly wouldn't want my kids to repeat the same mistakes.

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BattleCorp

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See below, it's from the OP's opening post. €150 in one go.

I found out about 2 weeks ago, by chance (she had left her Facebook page open on my computer), that she has been buying large quantities of alcohol weekly, to purvey it to her sibling's friends, who are 15/16, for about 5 months. By large I mean up to 150 Euro at one go, needing her boyfriend's help to carry them etc. He has been involved in this, he is two years older, but I do not think he started it.

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BattleCorp

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Once the adult hands over the drink, she has no control over how many people drink it and over what time frame. She has still committed the exact same offence no matter what timeframe the drink is being consumed. I know it's not murder but it could have serious consequences for her career path should she be prosecuted. A conviction for supplying drink to minors wouldn't go down well if she was applying for a job that involved the care of minors etc. And nobody here can guarantee that she wouldn't be prosecuted.

Whether the kids are selling the drink on themselves makes no difference to the original offence of providing alcohol to minors.

If I was convicted of supplying drink to minors, it wouldn't affect my career in the slightest as I don't need Garda clearance for my line of work. Others though might not be so lucky.

Look, the girl has had her scolding, it's been pointed out that it's wrong and hopefully she's learned from it and won't do it in the future.

pilly

Bothered. wrote: »

Thanks again for the answers.
First of all, she has stopped doing it for more than two weeks, and will not do it again, I am sure.
I am also fairly sure it was not for profit, she is clueless about money (and maths!) and has very few expenses. The maximum she would have got is 10 € from a big order I'd say.
Second, she was certainly not doing it for popularity. As I was saying, she is already very ' cool' and self-assured.
Also, these kids are friends of her sibling, that's how she knows them, they were in the same school. They are 16-17. Apparently they were quite a few at those parties.
She is not a regular drinker herself (and we are not either), but supervised moderate drinking was not forbidden for her at parties etc. from when she was 16... I wouldn't be happy though providing drink to underage kids at our home without their parents' express consent.
I am not extremely straight-laced, but I am interested in my children having good ethics, especially since we are quite open-minded and liberal in many ways.
I didn't go over the top, and she doesn't really think I massively overacted. Just that at the time she didn't think and didn't see it as a big deal.
The main reasons why it was a fairly big deal for me, and comes back to the front of my mind every few days since, is that I think she was very stupid, and it worries me for her future. Will she do some things just because she is asked, just to please, without really thinking the ramifications through?
We would encourage her to always think of the consequences of her actions. Is this just a silly mistake or does it show her fundamental naivety?
Another thing worrying me is that her boyfriend helped her in this activity, rather than telling her it was silly to do something illegal and fairly dangerous like that. He doesn't seem to have great moral fiber either, and he is 2 years older.
The main thing I'm retaining from all of this is that my expectations for her behavior are too high, and therefore I am disappointed. Though I know teenagers in general very well (and her in particular), and expect some ridiculous behavior, and it is far from the first time I am confronted by it, I am still shocked!

Okay, what stood out for me here is they're 16-17 now, earlier it was 15-16, there is a huge difference.

Anyone I knew at 17 was drinking and when I was 18 I certainly would have bought drink for them.

Think about it, someone who is 17 could be 18 tomorrow.

It's what teenagers do.

Not sure why someone would be doing it on a large scale though if there wasn't much money in it.

A lot of your posts OP are about it being a small town and reputation. This can be hard for a teenager to put up with it. Maybe you're putting too much pressure on her to be an angel? You mention in one post that everyone thinks she's perfect. This can lead a teenager to really rebel at some stage.

Luckily it's only drink in this case and hopefully she has learnt her lesson but do try not to put too much pressure on her. We all make mistakes at that age and learn from them.

LegacyUser

Hi and thanks.
I first thought the lads were 15-16 because that's my daughter's age (the sibling who is in their class, Transition Year), but she told me they were more 16-17. I can't be sure. Same about numbers of drinkers.
I am not concerned about my daughter's reputation per se, more her study and career prospects... It is not such a small town, but I know the parents quite well ,and they are in positions where they could have an input into her professional future.
I am not putting pressure on her to be perfect, I know well she isn't, and can't be, it's her loving wider family who think she is. Even though they should know nobody is.
Anyway, I am not too worried she will repeat this mistake, so we can close the thread... Until the next misbehavior!