Large bill for useless hospital, what rights if any do I have?

corcaigh07

Hope this is the right forum for this, please move if necessary Mods.

So, here's the basic outline:

Had a minor issue with my knee recently (A suspected Ganglion Cyst) and went to the doctor in Dublin to check it now, maybe get it sorted. He was fairly non-committal about it and referred me to the Beacon Hospital for get it checked. Fair enough.

I got my appointment with the consultant and he was also non-committal about it and decided a MRI was required. I left annoyed as I felt it did not require a MRI plus I don't have Health Insurance so an MRI would be 200+ euro. Unnecessary I felt for something that isn't affecting me too much.

Over Christmas, I decided to take a different approach and got it looked at by a doctor and hospital at home. They diagnosed it with an ultrasound as a ganglion cyst and I can arrange an operation for it if I like, something I probably won't get as it is not hampering me enough to warrant surgery.

Meanwhile, I have been getting letters to pay the Beacon Hospital 180 euro for the privilege of being told I need a MRI. They just sent a "Final Reminder" letter to pay or else they will employ a debt collector.

Some Key points:

-I wasn't told by the referring doctor that it was a private hospital, I wouldn't have gone if I knew.

-I wasn't informed of the charges by the hospital until I received the first letter.

-I was allowed to leave the hospital without any mention of the bill.

-I have since got a successful diagnosis through a different doctor/public system. I wasn't satisfied with the first referring doctor or the Beacon.

-I haven't spoken to them about this yet.

Do I have any comeback in this scenario or will I just have to grin and bear it? Will they really assign a debt collector for 180 euro?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

The short answer is you owe it. You availed of the hospital appointment.

corcaigh07

Clarissa Fat Semifinalist wrote: »

The short answer is you owe it. You availed of the hospital appointment.

I was thinking that myself. Will probably pay it at the start of next week as I don't want to actually get into any sort of trouble.

I'm not forgetting either that the real mess-up was the referring doctor for not giving me the option of Public or Private.

Chalk it down as experience I guess.

davo10

Op, if the condition worsens or the ultrasound diagnosis is wrong, you may regret not having the MRI. An MRI reveals far more than an ultrasound.

Surely you realised when you got an appointment in the Beacon that you were not attending a public appointment. For a non urgent condition, you could be waiting two years for a public appointment.

L1011

You owe the money to the Beacon. I'd ensure you check all paperwork you got to make sure it wasn't explained it was private - I've never seen it not called out on detail. Referring doctor should have mentioned it but may have asked obtousely, e.g. "have you health insurance" and assumed you knew it was private then

mordeith

While the OP does owe the money I think he should have been informed of the price beforehand. I was recenty referred to the Mater in Cork and I got a letter saying how much it was going to cost.

corcaigh07

L1011 wrote: »

You owe the money to the Beacon. I'd ensure you check all paperwork you got to make sure it wasn't explained it was private - I've never seen it not called out on detail. Referring doctor should have mentioned it but may have asked obtousely, e.g. "have you health insurance" and assumed you knew it was private then

I remember the day, it was a Saturday and he was very busy, had a quick look and then started on the referral. Never, ever asked any health insurance questions or anything like that.

I do realise that public referrals can take quite a while, it just never dawned on me that the Beacon was a private hospital, I thought the referral covered my costs. I obviously find that quite silly of me now but I went along with it at the time.

TheDriver

Unfortunately you owe it. On a medical bill front, its a small hospital bill in relation to hospital bills in general

Delacent

On the positive side, and assuming you pay tax.

Get together all your medical bills for past 4 years and claim tax relief.

As above expenditure was in 2016, you can claim on revenue site now and have it in your bank account in a few weeks

corcaigh07

TheDriver wrote: »

Unfortunately you owe it. On a medical bill front, its a small hospital bill in relation to hospital bills in general

I know what you mean. Large for what it was though, especially since I'm unlikely to return for a follow up.

coylemj

Delacent wrote: »

On the positive side, and assuming you pay tax.

Get together all your medical bills for past 4 years and claim tax relief.

As above expenditure was in 2016, you can claim on revenue site now and have it in your bank account in a few weeks

He will get relief at the standard rate meaning that he will only get 20% of it back.

dudara

It's still €36 that you can get back. Better than a kick in the nuts.

Corruptedmorals

Very odd not to mention the fee beforehand. Most will at least spell it out in the appointment letter. When I worked in a private hospital clinic we informed each patient by phone beforehand and collected the fee on the day. €180 is the standard fee for a first visit.

It's important to be aware of how long public waiting lists are though. Your GP will have an idea for the various specialities. Orthopaedics for instance is one of the worst, the list reached 4 years in Tallaght hospital. The vast majority are well over a year. All hospitals now validate their waiting lists to shorten them, where patients have a set period to send back a letter the hospital send to stay on the waiting list. This removes those who were already seen, no longer need to be seen or who have moved away or died.

.......

This post has been deleted.

corcaigh07

....... wrote: »

Where did you see the doctor in Dublin?

Private clinics such as VHI Swiftcare routinely refer into private hospitals and never mention public.

It would be very unusual that the appointment letter did not mention the private fee. Actually I have a letter here for a private knee appointment in the Beacon and it definitely mentions the fee (180 euro).

It would also be unusual for an adult not to ask whether or not it was a private hospital, given the constant bad publicity about the public health system etc..

But mostly it's amazing that you wouldn't realise walking in there that it was private. The Beacon Orthopediacs is shiny, leather chairs, courteous staff, expensive building finish etc.. The consultants speak English and pay attention to you. It couldn't be less public hospital like! How did you leave without paying? They normally send you to the desk to settle up.

I feel silly not realising at the time, trust me. They did let me walk out without paying and never sent an appointment letter either.

I wouldn't go that far on how glamourous the place was though, you might be overstating that to strengthen your point tbf.

Delacent

....... wrote: »

The Beacon Orthopediacs is shiny, leather chairs, courteous staff, expensive building finish etc.

If the OP went in around November there was a lot of work going on and the temporary waiting area was more akin to a standard public hospital than private. - About 15 office chairs and plenty of people (incl myself) standing.

Usual area was closed off and no signs giving info on charges needing to be paid - herself could easily have headed off without paying, such was the mess

lawred2

Delacent wrote: »

On the positive side, and assuming you pay tax.

Get together all your medical bills for past 4 years and claim tax relief.

As above expenditure was in 2016, you can claim on revenue site now and have it in your bank account in a few weeks

20% of it

coylemj

corcaigh07 wrote: »

I feel silly not realising at the time, trust me. They did let me walk out without paying and never sent an appointment letter either.

I wouldn't go that far on how glamourous the place was though, you might be overstating that to strengthen your point tbf.

How long between the referral from your GP and getting the appointment letter from the Beacon?

I'm guessing a matter of a few weeks max., that should have signalled 'private' in big flashing lights. And regardless of how glamorous or otherwise it looked, I bet you didn't see a room full of people waiting to see the same consultant, all with the same appointment time - another major difference between public and private.

I'm surprised you weren't asked to pay on the spot, I see a guy in the Hermitage clinic now and again and his secretary asks for the fee upfront i.e. before you see him, that's even on your second and subsequent visits.

.......

This post has been deleted.

newacc2015

Maybe explain the situation to them and ask if they will do a discount on the bill? ie you didn't know there was a charge, etc. Offer them 50-70 cents on the euro. They will probably get less from a debt collector, so they may take it

IMO I think €180 was cheap for a nice hospital like the Beacon.

Clampdown

To answer your question, leaving the validity of the charge aside for a moment: A debt collector won't try more than a few easily ignorable calls or letters over that small an amount.They really won't bother wasting time and it's certainly not going to be worth it for them to take you to court or anything they will try and annoy you a bit basically.

Del2005

coylemj wrote: »

How long between the referral from your GP and getting the appointment letter from the Beacon?

I'm guessing a matter of a few weeks max., that should have signalled 'private' in big flashing lights. And regardless of how glamorous or otherwise it looked, I bet you didn't see a room full of people waiting to see the same consultant, all with the same appointment time - another major difference between public and private.

I'm surprised you weren't asked to pay on the spot, I see a guy in the Hermitage clinic now and again and his secretary asks for the fee upfront i.e. before you see him, that's even on your second and subsequent visits.

The OP went home and got another opinion. That would imply that they aren't Irish and may not be aware of the difference between public and private, they did say that though the referral letter covered it, or how long the public waiting lists are.

It is weird that they weren't asked for money though, as was said before when I had to see a consultant the fee was called out several times and I was asked to pay before I saw the consultant.

coylemj

Del2005 wrote: »

The OP went home and got another opinion. That would imply that they aren't Irish and may not be aware of the difference between public and private, they did say that though the referral letter covered it, or how long the public waiting lists are.

OP's handle is corcaigh07 - maybe you're the one who isn't Irish

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Del2005

coylemj wrote: »

OP's handle is corcaigh07 - maybe you're the one who isn't Irish

Cork isn't Ireland

NUTLEY BOY

OP seems to have entered a binding contract. On the facts, I see no possible relief for OP from the debt.

The debt is better discharged as soon as is possible. Is there any possibility that non-payment could eventually show up against OP's credit score ?

L1011

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

OP seems to have entered a binding contract. On the facts, I see no possible relief for OP from the debt.

The debt is better discharged as soon as is possible. Is there any possibility that non-payment could eventually show up against OP's credit score ?

Under current structures, it won't appear on an ICB report without a court judgement which would be extremely unlikely for that value. Other ratings agencies vary in rules.

Lux23

mordeith wrote: »

While the OP does owe the money I think he should have been informed of the price beforehand. I was recenty referred to the Mater in Cork and I got a letter saying how much it was going to cost.

He should have been provided with this information. OP contact the CCPC and get them to provide you with information on your rights. When you attended the appointment, someone should have said to you, this consultation will cost €xx. I am surprised no-one did. You still owe the money, but they also breached your rights if they didn't tell you the cost beforehand.

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/report-a-business

.......

This post has been deleted.

AudreyHepburn

First of all I would thought the dogs on the street know the Beacon is a Private clinic.

That aside, the OP has no rights in this situation as far as I ca see. They availed of the service, they can't just refuse to pay for it.

cbreeze

I've a consultant booked for next week - the second thing his secretary told me was the €180 fee.