General Ongoing Doctor Discussion

pixelburp

Goodshape wrote: »

Looking forward to next year when a few of the posters on this thread hold true to their promise and stop watching or contributing here.


One female in 50+ years of a character who's most defining characteristic is a total change of person every now and then? That's unacceptable?

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

I don't think there's anything wrong with healthy discussion and wouldn't advocate for an already quiet forum to lose members or feel like they're unwelcome just because they hold contrary opinions. I don't agree whatsoever with their logic thus far and find it ... misguided, hut I'd much rather have the discussion than not

Goodshape

pixelburp wrote: »

I don't think there's anything wrong with healthy discussion and wouldn't advocate for an already quiet forum to lose members or feel like they're unwelcome just because they hold contrary opinions. I don't agree whatsoever with their logic thus far and find it ... misguided, hut I'd much rather have the discussion than not

I'm not sure how "healthy" this discussion is but fair enough – I'm not suggesting you ban anyone. Personally I could just do without the gender wars. I know the show's slanted towards a younger audience but this isn't bloody kindergarten.

"Giving up" on a show because they put an ickky smelly girl in it. Eeeewwww.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

pixelburp wrote: »

I don't think there's anything wrong with healthy discussion and wouldn't advocate for an already quiet forum to lose members or feel like they're unwelcome just because they hold contrary opinions. I don't agree whatsoever with their logic thus far and find it ... misguided, hut I'd much rather have the discussion than not

I think Goodshape means once the show starts airing again?

Again though if people are actually watching and feel the need to complains still then fair enough.

ebbsy

pixelburp wrote: »

I don't think there's anything wrong with healthy discussion and wouldn't advocate for an already quiet forum to lose members or feel like they're unwelcome just because they hold contrary opinions. I don't agree whatsoever with their logic thus far and find it ... misguided, hut I'd much rather have the discussion than not

True. Do I want a female Doctor ? Certainly not.

But I w'ont go attacking those who do.

ixoy

Given we have gotten a female Doctor, what are people's feelings on the choice or what actress would they have preferred that was at least a plausible choice (e.g. I don't think they could have afforded Tilda Swinton which some people suggested).

I honestly don't recall Jodie Whittaker in 'Broadchurch' but I only watched the first season. If Chibnail wanted to go with one of his cast, I'd have been very happy with Olivia Coleman. She has the acting chops for me and could pull of a slightly eccentric Doctor.

Haylely Atwell would have been the very obvious other choice too. She'd probably pull off a more confident, Romana-esque Doctor. It seems like she was asked but obviously didn't happen.

Basq

I'd have preferred the heavily rumoured Phoebe Waller-Bridge to Whitaker to be honest..

Goodshape

ixoy wrote: »

Given we have gotten a female Doctor, what are people's feelings on the choice or what actress would they have preferred that was at least a plausible choice (e.g. I don't think they could have afforded Tilda Swinton which some people suggested).

Olivia Coleman would have been great. I'm probably just drawing a blank but can't think of anyone I'd prefer more at the moment. We know she can do comedy, drama, emotion, and crazy, really well. Although I never really thought that she was going to do it. In interviews she never struck me as the type who'd signup to that sort of media hell.

I haven't seen Jodie Whittaker in anything. She looks very bland – young, fresh faced, white, blond – but I'll try not to judge a book by it's cover

Penn

ixoy wrote: »

Haylely Atwell would have been the very obvious other choice too. She'd probably pull off a more confident, Romana-esque Doctor. It seems like she was asked but obviously didn't happen.

Would have loved Hayley Atwell but I think she's living in and focusing on America and also probably too big a name to take it on (it's a bit of a poisoned chalice not just taking on the role of the Doctor but also being the first female one). Tilda Swinton, having seen her in Doctor Strange, yeah she could have been brilliant at it too. Could definitely have played up the more alien aspects of the character.

Never heard of Phoebe Waller-Bridge before her name was mentioned as a possibility, so can't give an opinion on her.

I'm kinda glad it's gone to someone most people don't really know. Same with companions, I'm hoping for people I haven't really seen before.

pixelburp

Basq wrote: »

I'd have preferred the heavily rumoured Phoebe Waller-Bridge to Whitaker to be honest..

Same. It was the first name I'd heard that made me think of the right balance between drama and comedy, with some obvious on screen charisma to boot. Tilda Swinton was a ludicrous suggestion and stank of "who's the most eccentric and famous actor we can think of"


Without being that familiar with whittakers work I don't know what to expect of her as a person. The Doctor requires actors with bags of their own personality to bring to the role and make it their own, I hope that's something Whittaker brings.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I don't think Phoebe Waller-Bridge was ever really an option. She's producing a show in the US at the moment and supposedly doing another series of Fleabag, as well as being in the Hans Solo spin off. Perhaps that would be a bit of an issue, having someone actively connected to another Sci-Fi franchise as the Doctor? Although I might have read she has a voice role in that one, so maybe not.

Not to keep banging on about Adult Life Skills but it's a pretty good example of what Whittaker can do, it blends comedy with drama really well and doesn't go too far in either direction. It's almost the perfect audition piece for Doctor Who, she lives in a shed which is bigger inside than it looks outside and she befriends a lonely little kid.

I saw Susan Wokoma mentioned a few times over the last few months. She's been in Crazyhead, Chewing Gum and Crashing recently and I would have enjoyed seeing her in the role.

A lot of the names mentioned were never really possibilities. Could you really see Gillian Anderson or Tilda Swinton committing to 9 months of the year in Cardiff. No offense, Cardiff.

Das Kitty

Ruth Negga.

Wibbs

ebbsy wrote: »

True. Do I want a female Doctor ? Certainly not.

But I w'ont go attacking those who do.

Indeed. Seems the oul "attacking" is only going one way with it.

Goodshape wrote: »

Looking forward to next year when a few of the posters on this thread hold true to their promise and stop watching or contributing here.


One female in 50+ years of a character who's most defining characteristic is a total change of person every now and then? That's unacceptable?

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Oh very nice alright. Telling people to leave the forum because they don't happen to agree with you(and outline reasons why)? Bugger all action taken over a clear instance of being a dick with it.

Goodshape wrote: »

"Giving up" on a show because they put an ickky smelly girl in it. Eeeewwww.

And again and the moderator of the forum goes and thanks a post like that? Fcuk that noise. Enjoy your echo chamber.

pixelburp

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh very nice alright. Telling people to leave the forum because they don't happen to agree with you(and outline reasons why)? Bugger all action taken over a clear instance of being a dick with it.

And again and the moderator of the forum goes and thanks a post like that? Fcuk that noise. Enjoy your echo chamber.

I don't agree with anyone attacking anyone Wibbs, least of all on an otherwise amicable forum. If you have a problem with the moderation of the thread thus far, feel free to bring it up via the usual channels, or chat with me on PM.

I think people needs to take a breath and calm down. I'm reluctant to throw bans or cards out for anything other than open hostility. This isn't After Hours or Politics, but I'm asking people to consider their replies in future.

Goodshape

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh very nice alright. Telling people to leave the forum because they don't happen to agree with you(and outline reasons why)? Bugger all action taken over a clear instance of being a dick with it.

I didn't tell anyone to do anything and I didn't single out any user here. You and others have said you'll no longer be watching and, if you're going to be throwing a tantrum over a girl in your favourite TV show, then I'm happy with your decision.

(Ref. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104102885&postcount=170)

pixelburp

Goodshape, move the discussion on. I'm disappointed Wibbs has decided to leave the forum, and hopefully he'll return, but the bickering needs to stop. End of.

Sleepy

alchemist33 wrote: »

I've lost track fo who means what, but McGyver and The Mentalist come to mind.

The MacGyver reboot was a complete betrayal of it's originating show. Mac was riding and using a gun from the off.

I was only dying to share the reboot with our young fella but it was pretty clear, they weren't re-booting MacGuyver as a family show: it was done as a nostalgia trip for adults and missed the mark by a mile.

With The Doctor changing into a woman, we lose yet another non-violent male hero. Sure, it's great for young girls to have a science-loving hero to look up to but did it really have to be done at the cost of young boys losing theirs?

Maybe in an ideal world, children would be gender blind when adopting their role models but in the real world, it's rare enough in my experience. Little boys tend to want to be like their Dads and little girls tend to want to be like their mammys.

Lord TSC wrote: »

It absolutely needs to be a male companion. I wonder if any of the names linked for the Docs role, like Kris Marshall, might get linked as such.

All that said, I'd take any second rate actress over Kris Marshall. He's an absolute bell-end. The only person I've ever had use the "do you know who I am?" shtick with me during my brief stint in the hospitality industry. Thankfully, he'd only just released "The Most Fertile Man in Ireland" at the Film Fleadh at that stage so I was truthfully able to reply "haven't a clue actually".

If I'm hones, I've almost given up on the show at this stage though: I'm still only half way through the current season and haven't really been enjoying the show as much as I did in the past for quite a lot of Moffats run: IMHO the show generally lends itself better to 2/3 parters than to season long arcs which have often seemed a bit too convoluted for their own good.

Making the doctor female is clearly a sop to the gender studies brigade rather than any legitimate story-telling device. It confuses much of the previous canon: is the doctor a lesbian now? How will River Song take her husband changing genders should she encounter 13? Is the doctor a grandmother rather than a grandfather now? Will the doctor still be able to get people to follow her in historical situations?

There's fodder for good stories in some of this and, were such a political decision being foisted on me as a writer, I'd look to explore some of them before ultimately having The Doctor choose to return to being male with his next re-generation making a comment about "whatever, about the 21st century, being a woman in the 15th is just too much extra work when you're trying to save a planet!" or similar. Recognising the stupidity of the sexism of the past is a perfectly sensible thing to write about, trying to correct with sexism in the opposite direction is a histrionic fail of logic.

Doctor DooM

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Making the doctor female is clearly a sop to the gender studies brigade rather than any legitimate story-telling device. It confuses much of the previous canon: is the doctor a lesbian now? How will River Song take her husband changing genders should she encounter 13? Is the doctor a grandmother rather than a grandfather now? Will the doctor still be able to get people to follow her in historical situations?

Is this not... you know... stuff that could be addressed within the storyline of the series as a story telling device?

It's really confusing me how people are complaining how they're going off on the series and then in the same breath complain about how it's changing. Are we looking for it to stay the same or change?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Sleepy wrote: »

Making the doctor female is clearly a sop to the gender studies brigade rather than any legitimate story-telling device. It confuses much of the previous canon: is the doctor a lesbian now? How will River Song take her husband changing genders should she encounter 13? Is the doctor a grandmother rather than a grandfather now? Will the doctor still be able to get people to follow her in historical situations?
.

But the problem with that logic is you're applying human ideas of sexuality onto two alien characters. Has there ever been anything canonically stated about the mating system on Gallifrey? Has it been established that the concepts of heterosexuality or homosexuality exist in the same way it does for humans? Also, it's not like Doctor Who is a very sexual show, are the target audience going to be thinking along those lines?

I always found the River Song stuff a bit confusing, to be honest, but wasn't there something about her travelling backwards through the Doctor's timeline, so it's possible she already knows about 13?

spookwoman

ebbsy wrote: »

True. Do I want a female Doctor ? Certainly not.

But I w'ont go attacking those who do.

Unfortunately all I seem to see online is if your are not in favour of a female Dr Who then you're a snowflake, sexist and you're a woman hater.

Have always felt that Dr Who was male and casting a woman now is just gone too far. What I've seen of Jodi Whittaker hasn't impressed me. She's wishy washy and I just cannot see how to can fill such a big role. Just wish they would cast for the character rather than pander to whims

Doctor DooM

spookwoman wrote: »

Unfortunately all I seem to see online is if your are not in favour of a female Dr Who then you're a snowflake, sexist and you're a woman hater.

Have always felt that Dr Who was male and casting a woman now is just go too far. What I've seen of Jodi Whittaker hasn't impressed me. She's wishy washy and I just cannot see how to can fill such a big role. Just wish they would cast for the character rather than pander to whims

Interestingly, I did a search and all three mentions of the word sexist in this thread were uttered by people who are complaining about the Doctor being female.

It's almost like people are projecting.

EDIT: Sorry it's five now. Still all from people objecting.

spookwoman

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Interestingly, I did a search and all three mentions of the word sexist in this thread were uttered by people who are complaining about the Doctor being female.

It's almost like people are projecting.

Have a gander a twitter.

The_Valeyard

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

But the problem with that logic is you're applying human ideas of sexuality onto two alien characters. Has there ever been anything canonically stated about the mating system on Gallifrey? Has it been established that the concepts of heterosexuality or homosexuality exist in the same way it does for humans? Also, it's not like Doctor Who is a very sexual show, are the target audience going to be thinking along those lines?

I always found the River Song stuff a bit confusing, to be honest, but wasn't there something about her travelling backwards through the Doctor's timeline, so it's possible she already knows about 13?

She is probably dead before 13. Spent 27 years as one night before she departed for The Library.

Doctor DooM

spookwoman wrote: »

Have a gander a twitter.

You sure you want to go down that route?

Because I'm reasonably sure I can find some disgusting comments on twitter that would make such an assertion true.

For example the charmer who tweeted my favourite DW podcast complaining the Doctor "shouldn't be **** fodder".

spookwoman

Doctor DooM wrote: »

You sure you want to go down that route?

Because I'm reasonably sure I can find some disgusting comments on twitter that would make such an assertion true.

For example the charmer who tweeted my favourite DW podcast complaining the Doctor "shouldn't be **** fodder".

There will always be prats like that but then there are the ones like. "Jodie Whittaker will be a great a Doctor Who, and all the sexist a#eholes moaning about it can **** off over a picture of Tom Baker"
or the other one they like is "I'm not sexist....."

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

spookwoman wrote: »

There will always be prats like that but then there are the ones like. "Jodie Whittaker will be a great a Doctor Who, and all the sexist a#eholes moaning about it can **** off over a picture of Tom Baker"
or the other one they like is "I'm not sexist....."

There are extremes on both sides of this discussion. You can find either if you go looking for them. You can also find an awful lot of reasonably level headed people discussing the pros and cons of this casting.

Doctor DooM

spookwoman wrote: »

There will always be prats like that but then there are the ones like. "Jodie Whittaker will be a great a Doctor Who, and all the sexist a#eholes moaning about it can **** off over a picture of Tom Baker"
or the other one they like is "I'm not sexist....."

Yes, there's extremes on both sides, but you were the one saying "you can't object without being called sexist". Of course you can't just like the BBC couldn't do this without having the seedy sexist underside of the net show up when they did what they did. But like... don't go on an unmoderated space like twitter if you don't want to deal with that crap from either side. This is what places like boards are for

Sadly this does mean you get to say you can't go anywhere online and talk about it. I'm well aware people can have legitimate concerns about it (although I do believe people's assertions this will 100% be awful betrays the fact they, consciously or unconciously, have more skin in the game than they're letting on, when most right minded people are just saying wait and see). I personally feel like I've been forced into a position where I sound like I'm defending the show but actually I really just want to see what they do with it, as I have done so 8 or 9 times throughout the years.

I literally see no difference between this happening between Tennant and Smith as between P Cap and Whittaker.

FunLover18

Sleepy wrote:

With The Doctor changing into a woman, we lose yet another non-violent male hero. Sure, it's great for young girls to have a science-loving hero to look up to but did it really have to be done at the cost of young boys losing theirs?

Sorry but I still don't understand why gender is so important. It's not like up until this point little girls have never watched the show. I think the trend in this thread that boys need male role models and girls need female models is far more worrying and setting an example to young people that such a small thing as a gender swap is worth giving up on something you love is pretty damning because if a young boy were to read some posts of this thread if be very worried that they'd think they can't like Doctor Who anymore because it's a girl.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote:

A lot of the names mentioned were never really possibilities. Could you really see Gillian Anderson or Tilda Swinton committing to 9 months of the year in Cardiff. No offense, Cardiff.

I think Jim Cummings revealed recently that he was offered the doctor and would have loved to do it but for the fact that it meant spending 9 months in Cardiff.

pixelburp

Twitter is the ultimate in confirmation bias. No, I'll go one further, it's a garbage fire : look hard enough and you'll always find the worst aspects of any particular viewpoint. But choosing to believe those are the main opinions, or indeed ammunition in deciding to denounce those you disagree with, is just as unfriendly and counter productive as those screaming 'sexist'

Das Kitty

Doctor DooM wrote: »

The charmer who tweeted my favourite DW podcast complaining the Doctor "shouldn't be **** fodder".

I have some bad news for that guy.

Yourself isit

FunLover18 wrote: »

Sorry but I still don't understand why gender is so important. It's not like up until this point little girls have never watched the show. I think the trend in this thread that boys need male role models and girls need female models is far more worrying and setting an example to young people that such a small thing as a gender swap is worth giving up on something you love is pretty damning because if a young boy were to read some posts of this thread if be very worried that they'd think they can't like Doctor Who anymore because it's a girl.



I think Jim Cummings revealed recently that he was offered the doctor and would have loved to do it but for the fact that it meant spending 9 months in Cardiff.

It's it even filmed in Cardiff anymore? I don't see BBC Cymru on the logo anymore. They don't feature Cardiff.

Anyway It's a small island. London is only a few hours away, England only 30 minutes away. Bristol and bath are commutable. Not that Cardiff is that bad.