General Ongoing Doctor Discussion

Doctor DooM

Well, I really enjoyed that tbh. Felt like Who for the first time in ages.

Jack was clearly a feint to put people off the bigger news at the end, and we'll prob see him before the end of the series.

The BBC have said there's no trickery going on, they are both the same Doctor. So one of them is confused. I'm not sure I buy that (or it won't be retconned).

I wonder is the Brigadeer or Clara's fella Whatshisface the last Cyberman...

FunLover18

Definitely one of the better episodes of the Chibnall era but still not great. I didn't get to watch it until last night and therefore had everything spoiled for me bar the mutual confusion, although it did mean I didn't get swept up in the excitement of it all. The writing is still pretty bad with the companions telling us The Doctor is spending hours at the console rather than the show showing us how preoccupied she is. Also are we genuinely supposed to believe that they were watching her for twenty minutes? Did The Doctor forget they were in the room or forget they were in the TARDIS? I got the impression from Spyfall that they'd all taken time off to go adventuring but this episode implied that they do go back to their lives now and again while The Doctor pops off to Gallifrey. Whilst it was good to have Jack back there was no narrative reason why that had to be Jack, hopefully they'll explain it later but it felt to me like they just didn't know what to do with the companions in the Ruth plot so they had them be "abducted" by someone with an important message for The Doctor. The companions did a lot of standing around being talked at or doing the talking and the direction was just bad. The three of them at the end reassuring The Doctor standing in a row, it just looked so unnatural especially with Graham in the middle when Yaz and Ryan were doing most of the talking. At least Yaz finally got to be a cop. All in all the Ruth stuff was great and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes but maybe it would have been better to have done an entirely companion free episode or find a better way to use them.

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

So people are going crazy thinking she is the alternative Timeline David Tennant timeline Doc.

As in the alternative David Tennant who gets to live happily ever after with Rose in that episode I try to pretend doesn't exist because it's so weird? Isn't he just a human though, not a Timelord.

pixelburp

And yet ANOTHER big twist ruined by the internet. This time it wasn't even YouTube, but a blog I regularly read and has (up until last night) been OK as far as Spoilers go, generally burying the lede from within the article.

Nope.

There it was, a big image of the twist, while underneath a headline without even a trace of subtly. I'm not sure if I'm totally p*ssed off or just exasperated. Whatever about having something spoiled by the vagaries of algorithms, an editorial policy in on otherwise safe website is another matter.

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

pixelburp wrote: »

And yet ANOTHER big twist ruined by the internet. This time it wasn't even YouTube, but a blog I regularly read and has (up until last night) been OK as far as Spoilers go, generally burying the lede from within the article.

Nope.

There it was, a big image of the twist, while underneath a headline without even a trace of subtly. I'm not sure if I'm totally p*ssed off or just exasperated. Whatever about having something spoiled by the vagaries of algorithms, an editorial policy in on otherwise safe website is another matter.

How long have you been using the internet? If you are only finding out now everything is spoiled on it you have been doing well.

pixelburp

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO wrote: »

How long have you been using the internet? If you are only finding out now everything is spoiled on it you have been doing well.

Big difference when an outlet I visit explicitly because it's spoiler-safe, apart from designated areas, decides to just drop the huge reveal on its main page without warning, or precedent.

B.A._Baracus

I got the Captain Jack thing spoiled for me too.
Couldn't watch the episode on Sunday so Monday evening planned on watching it by "another means" :pac:

Then I open up my phone and on the suggested Google News Stories I see him there. Boo. Booooo I say!

flazio

FunLover18 wrote: »

Definitely one of the better episodes of the Chibnall era but still not great. I didn't get to watch it until last night and therefore had everything spoiled for me bar the mutual confusion, although it did mean I didn't get swept up in the excitement of it all. The writing is still pretty bad with the companions telling us The Doctor is spending hours at the console rather than the show showing us how preoccupied she is. Also are we genuinely supposed to believe that they were watching her for twenty minutes? Did The Doctor forget they were in the room or forget they were in the TARDIS? I got the impression from Spyfall that they'd all taken time off to go adventuring but this episode implied that they do go back to their lives now and again while The Doctor pops off to Gallifrey. Whilst it was good to have Jack back there was no narrative reason why that had to be Jack, hopefully they'll explain it later but it felt to me like they just didn't know what to do with the companions in the Ruth plot so they had them be "abducted" by someone with an important message for The Doctor. The companions did a lot of standing around being talked at or doing the talking and the direction was just bad. The three of them at the end reassuring The Doctor standing in a row, it just looked so unnatural especially with Graham in the middle when Yaz and Ryan were doing most of the talking. At least Yaz finally got to be a cop. All in all the Ruth stuff was great and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes but maybe it would have been better to have done an entirely companion free episode or find a better way to use them.



As in the alternative David Tennant who gets to live happily ever after with Rose in that episode I try to pretend doesn't exist because it's so weird? Isn't he just a human though, not a Timelord.

River was completely human as well but got regenerative powers from being conceived in the TARDIS.

FunLover18

flazio wrote: »

River was completely human as well but got regenerative powers from being conceived in the TARDIS.

If you retconned it so that that version of The Doctor had regenerative powers, it's takes away Rose's happy ending though (which I never really liked anyway)

TheValeyard

Think it's a cloned Doctor, possibly created by Sisterhood of Karn. Maybe they created two War Doctors.

fritzelly

BBC saying no tricks, she is the first doctor

pixelburp

Watching it in the end felt a little anti climactic, though at least the Captain Jack was a genuine surprise; was great to see him back and I'd forgotten just how cheesy his era was! Barrowman has aged well though. His swagger did show up the rest of the team and I swear, I'm sick to death of this "we're family" trope imported from hack American screenwriting.

As to the new Doctor? Well no doubt they've given the show a shot in the arm, by dint of that classic move of a Mystery (Blue?) Box. Chibnalls run has often lacked that vital punch, and the show needed that Bad Wolf, Trenzalore factor.

It could literally be anything that'll explain the new Doc, but I'm guessing the most likely would either be an alternate universe Gallifrey, or a pre Hartnell Doctor. Canon isn't this shows strong point but assuming they keep to the idea that the Doc got a new regeneration cycle, I suppose it's possible this ain't the first time; I'd be a bit against the idea that Hartnell was himself a reset. But as Whittaker said, she could remember "all" her lives, so a new cycle doesn't wipe memories.

Gah, it's annoying but I kinda miss this sort of speculation lol

TheValeyard

fritzelly wrote: »

BBC saying no tricks, she is the first doctor

We shall see if it makes sense or trying to fit some woke stuff. Doctor was a woman all along and never truly male or something, something, internet rabble up in arms, etc

Nice about Captain Jack bit.

Wonder if I'm going to be female now? Hmmm. I'd look good in a dress.

FunLover18

fritzelly wrote: »

BBC saying no tricks, she is the first doctor

We've seen flashbacks The Doctor's childhood as a young boy though.

pixelburp

Given the show showed us the First Doctor stealing a "white label" TARDIS during Clara's romp through the Doctors memories, it confirmed the longstanding claim that he stole it and the ship got stuck as a police box afterwards. So I don't buy this idea we've met a new "old" Doctor, as this mystery Docs ship is already a police box. They can't be THAT slipshod with canon they would just scribble all over that, especially in an episode that had other callbacks and references to past detail.

fritzelly

FunLover18 wrote: »

We've seen flashbacks The Doctor's childhood as a young boy though.

Yep, lots wrong with it

TheValeyard

pixelburp wrote: »

Given the show showed us the First Doctor stealing a "white label" TARDIS during Clara's romp through the Doctors memories, it confirmed the longstanding claim that he stole it and the ship got stuck as a police box afterwards. So I don't buy this idea we've met a new "old" Doctor, as this mystery Docs ship is already a police box. They can't be THAT slipshod with canon they would just scribble all over that, especially in an episode that had other callbacks and references to past detail.

Or we are truly going down this...

FunLover18

On the Debating Doctor Who podcast they were talking about Series 6B, that this could be a new regeneration between Troughton and Pertwee.

pixelburp

FunLover18 wrote: »

On the Debating Doctor Who podcast they were talking about Series 6B, that this could be a new regeneration between Troughton and Pertwee.

Sean Pertwee cameo? And IIRC Reese Sheersmith briefly played Troughton in "Adventure in Space and Time" drama, the one David Bradley played Hartnell, then later Hartnell's Doc. Maybe history will repeat?

I doubt the explanation will be simple but I really hope it doesn't trample established continuity that much. An alternate universe might be the simplest, though the Master seemed to hint at some dark secret so a forgotten last regen might be more likely.

TheValeyard

fritzelly wrote: »

Yep, lots wrong with it

Yeah, I think it does a big disservice to Sydney Newman and William Hartnell.


Part of the mystery of Doctor Who is the 'who' part. We dont need an origin story except for that magical mystical story of a...

CastorTroy

Maybe it'll turn out this is the Peter Cushing Doctor and they're integrating the movies into the series now.

Speaking of River and children regenerating, what happened The Doctor's Daughter? Apart from marrying her father

ixoy

pixelburp wrote: »

It could literally be anything that'll explain the new Doc, but I'm guessing the most likely would either be an alternate universe Gallifrey, or a pre Hartnell Doctor

Chibs has apparently said it's not an alternative universe Doctor and that she *is& the Doctor.
How though can she be pre-Hartnell and have a police-box TARDIS? It morphed into that shape when it was resting in Trotter's Yard in 'An Unearthly Child' and was meant to have changed in the next episode. Since we saw a direct morph from Hartnell to Troughton it could imply she's a post Season 6B Doctor but that would be a bit odd: She should have recognised the idea of a sonic screw driver and of course we used up all the regenerations by Matt Smith's time.
I've a feeling that it'll be a disappointing answer but it's certainly the best "Huh?!" moment since the War Doctor title appeared.

flazio

Maybe she was in Gloucester for so long that the police box was a legitimate disguise?

fritzelly

flazio wrote: »

Maybe she was in Gloucester for so long that the police box was a legitimate disguise?

Buried? Makes no sense

Doctor DooM

I think people are missing the Occam's razor solution, that the new Doctor is one from the distant future, and has either forgotten/ has had the memory of Jodie Doctor removed somehow.

Personally, my tinfoil hat solution is she is actually the Other, and the Cartmell masterplan is back, and this is the Doctor before throwing themself into the genetic spool, which wiped their memory. When Hartnell grabbed the TARDIS he was actually just going back to the ancient, soon to be retired prototype the Other may have dicked about with.

fritzelly

Style of the tardis suggests its older, like the first few doctors tardis

FunLover18

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I think people are missing the Occam's razor solution, that the new Doctor is one from the distant future, and has either forgotten/ has had the memory of Jodie Doctor removed somehow.

Possibly but that doesn't explain how they don't know Galifrey is destroyed.

The Master

If anybody is struggling to follow this episode the hidden message that they're being very subtle about is that plastic pollution is bad.
Another over the top preachy episode just like Orphan 55.

It's horrible watching the show you love get destroyed like this

TheValeyard

Was an interesting episode, just thought it was poorly executed. Very rushed.

Liked the diseased birds, were an interesting enemy.

Definitely on the woke side, but ocean plastics are very topical at the moment.

How come they could save Adam but not the two women fighting the Future predator humans using the Tardis?

pixelburp

I'm confused, basic environmentalism is woke now? We've surely fallen a wee bit if "don't turn earth into a garbage dump" is too extreme a baseline for people's blood

flazio

I'm by no means a climate change denier or believing it's somebody else's problem, but even I am getting tired of Doctor Who being turned into a revival of Captain Planet.