M3 Branch

ClovenHoof

What are the passenger loadings like?

Jamie2k9

ClovenHoof wrote: »

What are the passenger loadings like?

Very crowded at peak hours...

Ally Dick

Do you mean the M3 Parkway?

Losty Dublin

I was told that the line does over 1,000 passengers a day weekdays. As somebody who currently boards at Ashtown , I'd well believe it.

Cravens

Off peak it is a different story, a single car 2750 could do it. I was on the service from Clonsilla to Hansfield last night, maybe 10 people were on it.

Ally Dick

Cravens wrote: »

Off peak it is a different story, a single car 2750 could do it. I was on the service from Clonsilla to Hansfield last night, maybe 10 people were on it.

There are so many people going to Docklands and back to M3 Parkway daily that they are definitely making a fortune in fares. I'm paying roughly 50 a week myself, so that probably justifies it's existence. Lord knows what the story will be if they extend to Navan or Kells

Del.Monte

Ally Dick wrote: »

There are so many people going to Docklands and back to M3 Parkway daily that they are definitely making a fortune in fares. I'm paying roughly 50 a week myself, so that probably justifies it's existence. Lord knows what the story will be if they extend to Navan or Kells

Railways don't make fortunes and in the British Isles haven't since the dawn of the 20th century. There has never been a plan to extend the railway back to Kells - even that FF clown who was Minister for Transport didn't suggest that.

Losty Dublin

Ally Dick wrote: »

There are so many people going to Docklands and back to M3 Parkway daily that they are definitely making a fortune in fares. I'm paying roughly 50 a week myself, so that probably justifies it's existence. Lord knows what the story will be if they extend to Navan or Kells

If you are then you may well be diddling yourself. The weekly Leapcard cap for Irish Rail is €35.50 and €40 a week for all operators.

n97 mini

Rather than guessing just check the Rail Census?

Ally Dick

Del.Monte wrote: »

Railways don't make fortunes and in the British Isles haven't since the dawn of the 20th century. There has never been a plan to extend the railway back to Kells - even that FF clown who was Minister for Transport didn't suggest that.

Might be just aspirational from political lobbyists. There was a meeting last night in Navan organised by Peadar Toibin of Sinn Fein to lobby Mr Ross hard for the train line extension to Navan and possibly Kells

Phil.x

It's a nightmare (people fainting on the train is a regular) in the morning and now the 16:55 outbound is getting bad.

Why dont they just put on any type of train (mk4) on the peak service if they haven't got the matching rolling stock for the intercity trains that are running on it.

Ally Dick

Thankfully I get the 18.25 out of Docklands and it's very civilised. I won't be busting myself to get an earlier train after hearing your story!

ClovenHoof

wow I had no idea the line was such a success! I can recall before opening so many people saying it would be a waste. Surely the success bodes well for an eventual Navan completion.

Ally Dick

ClovenHoof wrote: »

wow I had no idea the line was such a success! I can recall before opening so many people saying it would be a waste. Surely the success bodes well for an eventual Navan completion.

Hmm. Wouldn't be sure. That blasted toll on the M3 road is too much of a money spinner for them to allow people get a train to Navan instead

ClovenHoof

Ally Dick wrote: »

Hmm. Wouldn't be sure. That blasted toll on the M3 road is too much of a money spinner for them to allow people get a train to Navan instead

But the M3 road really serves much more than Navan. A huge part of the north of the entire island of Ireland use it.

L1011

Ally Dick wrote: »

Hmm. Wouldn't be sure. That blasted toll on the M3 road is too much of a money spinner for them to allow people get a train to Navan instead

The state don't own the road and take little if anything from the toll - they were paying 2m (down from 2.6m) in minimum traffic guarantee payments in 2015 but were taking VAT from the paid tolls and corporation tax from the profits. Train would not cut enough traffic to care.

Banjoxed

ClovenHoof wrote: »

But the M3 road really serves much more than Navan. A huge part of the north of the entire island of Ireland use it.

Isn't it remarkable how the M3 serves a huge part of the north of the entire island of Ireland, while posters in C&T poo-poohed that commuters from Dunshaughlin and Ratoath would use M3 Parkway station :rolleyes:

Phil.x

Well the 07:40 m3/docklands was a total joke this morning.
A three carriage intercity train today, which is not unusual.
Lots of people standing at handsfield and by the time it got to the navan road station nobody could get on, about 8 people on platform, ashtown had about 30/40 scrambling like ants from door to door trying to get on but just gave up in the end.
No apologies from train driver or irish rail on Twitter.....WTF...people are paying good money for this pure sh1t, also IMO totally dangerous having these types of trains with this load of people on board, I'm standing beside a table with nothing what so ever to hold on to, the soles of my feet were sore from trying to keep my balance.

Ally Dick

Sorry to hear that. Glad I get a later train. I am surprised Irish Rail don't put on more carriages. They're probably just stupid.

end of the road

i'm also sorry to hear of your experience, however sadly it is all too common.
unfortunately the use of intercity stock on suburban services is rather common, if not rife. it's an issue that has been discussed time and time again, but it doesn't look like it is going away. the huge inefficientsy and overcrowding among other issues the use of such stock on these services brings is unacceptable to the users of these services, and they have been well discussed on here also. it probably won't make a difference, but maybe try raising the issue with your local politicians. even if nothing comes of it, nothing is lost either.

Ally Dick

Incidentally is the 7.40 train one of the grey ones or one of the green ones? The green ones have more standing room than the grey ones. I find the 8.10 train in the morning from M3 is a green one, but the evening one at 6.25 is a grey one

Del.Monte

Aside from the inconvenience experienced by suburban passengers having to use unsuitable trains it also leads to undue wear and tear to inter-city stock. Broken tables, mucked-up upholstery, carpets etc. - it's a lose, lose situation which has been going on for years. When the Mk.IIIs were brand new nothing would do CIE but to use them for GAA specials.

L1011

Ally Dick wrote: »

Incidentally is the 7.40 train one of the grey ones or one of the green ones? The green ones have more standing room than the grey ones. I find the 8.10 train in the morning from M3 is a green one, but the evening one at 6.25 is a grey one

3 cars are the grey ones (intercity stock). They seem to use 2 ICRs and one commuter set most days and its semi-random which does which.

I would hope that the eventual restoration of the 2700 class to service will result in them going here.

ongarboy

I sometimes travel to Kerry and have to get a commuter style train from Mallow to Tralee. If there are no budgets for new commuter trains, then why can't the intercitys been used on the M3 line be swapped for the green commuter trains being used on intercity services such as Mallow to Tralee? While sitting is obviously preferable to standing, the seating on those shuttle trains from Mallow are quite uncomfortable when having to sit for more than an hour on them (they have Dart like cramped seating) yet have loads of ample standing room which is never utilised as the Mallow Tralee service never or very rarely has every seat occupied. Surely these would be more suitable on the M3 line so even if you were standing, you'd have more space to balance yourself as well as sufficient numbers of handrails to steady yourself.

end of the road

ongarboy wrote: »

I sometimes travel to Kerry and have to get a commuter style train from Mallow to Tralee. If there are no budgets for new commuter trains, then why can't the intercitys been used on the M3 line be swapped for the green commuter trains being used on intercity services such as Mallow to Tralee? While sitting is obviously preferable to standing, the seating on those shuttle trains from Mallow are quite uncomfortable when having to sit for more than an hour on them (they have Dart like cramped seating) yet have loads of ample standing room which is never utilised as the Mallow Tralee service never or very rarely has every seat occupied. Surely these would be more suitable on the M3 line so even if you were standing, you'd have more space to balance yourself as well as sufficient numbers of handrails to steady yourself.

the reason the green trains couldn't be sent up to the m3 branch is that the green trains are for the cork suburban services. cork-cobh/cork-midleton, and cork-mallow when it runs. those services would require the standing room.
i agree with you that the mallow-tralee shuttle should not be ran by those rattle traps but an intercity type train. sadly a couple of other long distance services and lines face the same problem due to IE being lax about the intercity stock's use, their use on suburban services where they are ridiculously inefficient and low capacity for the usership involved being very very highly common.

AngryLips

Why did the Navan extension get ruled out in the first place? Surely it would make the line viable throughout the day and not just at rush hour

L1011

AngryLips wrote: »

Why did the Navan extension get ruled out in the first place? Surely it would make the line viable throughout the day and not just at rush hour

Money, awkward planning, a sewer under the trackbed and a box built for it though a motorway junction that'd require a train that can drive like Tom Daley to get through.

Realistically it'd still be mostly a rush hour operation. Celbridge/Newbridge services are; Maynooth gets two-way traffic due to the college.

MGWR

L1011 wrote: »

Money, awkward planning, a sewer under the trackbed and a box built for it though a motorway junction that'd require a train that can drive like Tom Daley to get through

IOW, pre-planned excuses.

L1011 wrote: »

Realistically it'd still be mostly a rush hour operation. Celbridge/Newbridge services are; Maynooth gets two-way traffic due to the college.

IOW, it'd be a rush-hour operation the way the central planners want to run it. No "competing" permitted with the rather frequent 109 and 109A bus routes, the former of which stops in Phibsborough.

L1011

MGWR wrote: »

IOW, pre-planned excuses.

I'd go for good old fashioned incompetence for some of them.

MGWR wrote: »

IOW, it'd be a rush-hour operation the way the central planners want to run it. No "competing" permitted with the rather frequent 109 and 109A bus routes, the former of which stops in Phibsborough.

The 109/A don't have much off peak or opposite-direction demand either. That is how commuter services work.

metrovick001

The 109s are busy in both directions after 12:00. The 109A is very quite after morning rush hour inbound.

ongarboy

Not sure if the Bus Eireann strike is the reason for extra passengers but the 08:10 service from M3 Parkway into Docklands was standing room only even before Hansfield this morning. I think it is the first time ever I had to stand getting on at my stop at Hansfield!

Ally Dick

There were a lot more cars in the M3 car park this morning. More people got on than usual at M3 and Dunboyne

IE 222

I dont really get the complaining on this thred. M3, PPT and increased frequency on Maynooth and other lines have been introduced over the years but nobody has giving IE extra funding to increase fleet sizes. Is there spare 2900 stock not been used in the mornings. Are 2900s been used for Mallow - Tralee now as what seems to be suggested above or are these the Cork 2600s.

I know 2800s and 2600s are used on Cork and Limerick services so other from from that are IE really putting ICR on commuter services purposely.

Do Galway - Limerick have 2 or 4 car 2800 units running. Would 3 car ICR be a viable option for this route.

AngryLips

IE 222 wrote: »

I dont really get the complaining on this thred. M3, PPT and increased frequency on Maynooth and other lines have been introduced over the years but nobody has giving IE extra funding to increase fleet sizes

But the fleet was purchased to cater for Celtic Tiger era demand which we are only getting back to now

L1011

IE 222 wrote: »

I dont really get the complaining on this thred. M3, PPT and increased frequency on Maynooth and other lines have been introduced over the years but nobody has giving IE extra funding to increase fleet sizes.

They have scrapped solid, usable stock (Mk3s) and were dithering about scrapping newer and likely repairable stock (2700s); and had parked even newer (Mk4) stock as excess until recently.

Poor fleet management has led to the current problems, not a lack of new stock.

Additionally - they use 3 car ICRs on this route and they are woefully unsuitable.

end of the road

L1011 wrote: »

They have scrapped solid, usable stock (Mk3s) and were dithering about scrapping newer and likely repairable stock (2700s); and had parked even newer (Mk4) stock as excess until recently.

Poor fleet management has led to the current problems, not a lack of new stock.

Additionally - they use 3 car ICRs on this route and they are woefully unsuitable.

absolutely correct, but you forgot the out of the way depot locations which bring huge inefficientsies. they would be fine if it was just suburban stock maintained there but all diesel units are maintained in them. of course part of inchicore works is earmarked for DU? (not that it will ever happen) so returning maintenence back there isn't going to happen unfortunately, but the current situation just cannot continue.

IE 222

L1011 wrote: »

They have scrapped solid, usable stock (Mk3s) and were dithering about scrapping newer and likely repairable stock (2700s); and had parked even newer (Mk4) stock as excess until recently.

Poor fleet management has led to the current problems, not a lack of new stock.

Additionally - they use 3 car ICRs on this route and they are woefully unsuitable.

Mk3 and Mk4 where replaced with ICR stock. So keeping MK3 Stock would still leave intercity stock on commuter lines which seems to be the big issue here.

MK 4 issue would still only free up ICR.

IE 222

AngryLips wrote: »

But the fleet was purchased to cater for Celtic Tiger era demand which we are only getting back to now

Intercity stock was. Dart and Suburban trains haven't been increased since the 00's.