A4 category

willyS81 · 31-01-2017 4:17pm #1

Any body any idea what the average speed would be over a 60/70km A4 category race
thanks

Inquitus · 31-01-2017 4:19pm

willyS81 wrote: »

Any body any idea what the average speed would be over a 60/70km A4 category race
thanks

36-40kph depending on profile of the circuit. Just worth nothing that riding in a big group is way easier than riding on your own so you would not need to be able to ride 80km at 36kph on your own to make it round. A rough rule of thumb used is if you can average 30kph on a varied Irish ride on your own for an hour, then you would likely get round an average A4 race.

Beasty · 31-01-2017 5:28pm

The main issue is not allowing yourself to get dropped. Riding within the group you should get around OK, but if you hang off the back or struggle on a hill losing touch with the group getting back on can be a big issue

Beasty · 31-01-2017 5:30pm

Just to add, the best starting point, if there's one available, is a club league. A bit shorter, a bit slower and groups tend to be smaller. A much better environment to learn the ropes than starting in the deep end with Open racing.

JK.BMC · 31-01-2017 6:57pm

This question gets asked all the time, especially this time of year - the responses above more or less cover the most important points. And they are all quite important.

I would put it another way: can you sprint in a straight line for 10 seconds, especially after a junction? Or can you go around a bend/junction smoothly and hold a wheel in doing so? Can you take your bottle out and have a drink and replace it while going at 40kmh? Can you sit in a group of riders riding in close proximity and feel smooth and calm? Can you manage to move out and overtake smoothly or sit tight on the wheels ahead and know the difference between the two?

I know the OP didn't ask about any of this but to be honest, if you can't do the above, then the "average speed" of a race doesn't matter a damn. There are lots of strava champions and wattage monsters who lack bunch skills. I would encourage you to focus on skills, skills, skills and let the "averages" take care of themselves. Club leagues are a good starting point without doubt.

ChickenBalls · 31-01-2017 7:23pm

JK.BMC wrote: »

This question gets asked all the time, especially this time of year - the responses above more or less cover the most important points. And they are all quite important.

I would put it another way: can you sprint in a straight line for 10 seconds, especially after a junction? Or can you go around a bend/junction smoothly and hold a wheel in doing so? Can you take your bottle out and have a drink and replace it while going at 40kmh? Can you sit in a group of riders riding in close proximity and feel smooth and calm? Can you manage to move out and overtake smoothly or sit tight on the wheels ahead and know the difference between the two?

I know the OP didn't ask about any of this but to be honest, if you can't do the above, then the "average speed" of a race doesn't matter a damn. There are lots of strava champions and wattage monsters who lack bunch skills. I would encourage you to focus on skills, skills, skills and let the "averages" take care of themselves. Club leagues are a good starting point without doubt.

Agreed! I did my very first A4 race last september in Gorey - nice roundabout to roundabout route but the skills is a big thing! For instance taking my bottle out to take a drink or harder again a gel was a challenge I actually wobbled a few times. I remember one of the club mates just behind me asked how I was doing and when I turned my head to look round I wobbled big time! Two guys behind me let out a shout "Less of the chit chat!" I was totally inexperienced tbh but got thru it. I had 10 club races behind me and from experience the club races are much more full throttle than an open race - I was worried before the race that I wouldn't keep up with the group at 35kph+ as i'd never gone that fast before but I managed to keep in there at 39/40kph without much effort - maybe 60%-70% effort at most - this was over 80km - check out my strava here - https://www.strava.com/activities/690304511/overview - the last 6km wasn't great cause i got caught up in a crash so lost touch with the group and by then it was game over but I loved it.

If you want to know my average in general it's at most 27kph on my own including a few wicklow mountains. Weekend club spins would be around 29-30kph at most.

koutoubia · 31-01-2017 7:32pm

ChickenBalls wrote: »

Two guys behind me let out a shout "Less of the chit chat!"

Tell them to FOOK OFF.
There is always a 'mouth' in the bunch who thinks they are 'Patrons'!
They forget they are in A4 and were behind you.
If they were worried about getting taken down they should have ridden away from the bunch or at least been on the front instead of issueing orders from the group

RobFowl · 31-01-2017 10:59pm

koutoubia wrote: »

Tell them to FOOK OFF.
There is always a 'mouth' in the bunch who thinks they are 'Patrons'!
They forget they are in A4 and were behind you.
If they were worried about getting taken down they should have ridden away from the bunch or at least been on the front instead of issueing orders from the group

For once agree completely with the sprinter...

The bollixes who mouth off are always behind you, the same ones who shout about going to the front and riding but who never do......

RobFowl · 31-01-2017 11:02pm

JK.BMC wrote: »

can you sprint in a straight line for 10 seconds, especially after a junction? Or can you go around a bend/junction smoothly and hold a wheel in doing so? Can you take your bottle out and have a drink and replace it while going at 40kmh? Can you sit in a group of riders riding in close proximity and feel smooth and calm? Can you manage to move out and overtake smoothly or sit tight on the wheels ahead and know the difference between the two?
.

And if you can my son, then you are going to feel very lonely in A4 cos no one else there can..........

Beasty · 31-01-2017 11:04pm

RobFowl wrote: »

And if you can my son, then you are going to feel very lonely in A4 cos no one else there can..........

Just head down to Sundrive for some proper training (well not the bottle bit I guess!)

koutoubia · 31-01-2017 11:07pm

Beasty wrote: »

Just head down to Sundrive for some proper training (well not the bottle bit I guess!)

Riding around in circles with no mud around will only confuse him!

InTheAttic · 01-02-2017 12:28pm

Beasty wrote: »

Just to add, the best starting point, if there's one available, is a club league. A bit shorter, a bit slower and groups tend to be smaller. A much better environment to learn the ropes than starting in the deep end with Open racing.

A bit slower?... Not from what I've seen.

InTheAttic · 01-02-2017 12:35pm

koutoubia wrote: »

Tell them to FOOK OFF.
There is always a 'mouth' in the bunch who thinks they are 'Patrons'!
They forget they are in A4 and were behind you.
If they were worried about getting taken down they should have ridden away from the bunch or at least been on the front instead of issueing orders from the group

Well done koutoubia. Blame the riders behind for reprimanding the fella who's taking his eyes off the road at 40km/hr to turn around and talk to his clubmate. The same fella who mentioned he got caught up in a crash in the same race. Welcome to A4.

Harrybelafonte · 01-02-2017 1:54pm

koutoubia wrote: »

Riding around in circles with no mud around will only confuse him!

Ovals. Not circles. Ovals.

Harrybelafonte · 01-02-2017 1:55pm

Beasty wrote: »

Just head down to Sundrive for some proper training (well not the bottle bit I guess!)

100 laps of a 460m track in burning July sun with no bottle. Dreamy.

Beasty · 01-02-2017 3:17pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

100 laps of a 460m track in burning July sun with no bottle. Dreamy.

Don't know if you recall but before they put the fence up I took you down there once. Around the same time I did a solo session which I think went on for over 100 laps. Not quite burning July though...

(I've also done hour long sessions on indoor tracks without stopping for refreshments)

Harrybelafonte · 01-02-2017 4:02pm

Beasty wrote: »

Don't know if you recall but before they put the fence up I took you down there once. Around the same time I did a solo session which I think went on for over 100 laps. Not quite burning July though...

(I've also done hour long sessions on indoor tracks without stopping for refreshments)

I do indeed remember. I believe I got four laps in.

An hour indoors is more about my head spining than heat exhaustian tbh.

Back on topic. Just do an A4 race and don't be a di@@ while you're doing it. You'll be fine

CramCycle · 01-02-2017 4:18pm

I cannot emphasise enough the importance of going off the front like a lunatic every now and again, if you do nothing else in an A4 race, you should try this upto 4 times in a race. If you stay away great, if you get caught, rest up, get your breath, get over confident again, and when the chance presents itself. Sling shot around the bunch and flu

NamelessPhil · 01-02-2017 4:48pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I cannot emphasise enough the importance of going off the front like a lunatic every now and again, if you do nothing else in an A4 race, you should try this upto 4 times in a race. If you stay away great, if you get caught, rest up, get your breath, get over confident again, and when the chance presents itself. Sling shot around the bunch and flu

If your teammate is up the road, don't be the eejit who tries to bridge across and pulls the bunch back up behind them. Let some other club do the chasing and tuck in behind them.

CramCycle · 01-02-2017 5:04pm

NamelessPhil wrote: »

If your teammate is up the road, don't be the eejit who tries to bridge across and pulls the bunch back up behind them. Let some other club do the chasing and tuck in behind them.

I see we are back to criticising my tactics from the club league :pac:

daragh_ · 01-02-2017 5:20pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I see we are back to criticising my tactics from the club league :pac:

In fairness you aren't the only one.

RobFowl · 01-02-2017 5:37pm

NamelessPhil wrote: »

If your teammate is up the road, don't be the eejit who tries to bridge across and pulls the bunch back up behind them. Let some other club do the chasing and tuck in behind them.

In club leagues and A4 races those who obey club tactics should be shot

Go for it, ride them attack til the cows come home and have fun

terrydel · 01-02-2017 5:46pm

What the climbing ability like in these? Any way to gauge where you would be in that regard?

Inquitus · 01-02-2017 6:01pm

terrydel wrote: »

What the climbing ability like in these? Any way to gauge where you would be in that regard?

It depends on the parcours, some have tough enough climbs like Snowtown for the Stamullen GP and the Deenside Cup, which can really sort the men from the boys, headwind or tailwind will make a big difference too. I'd say to do well on the hillier ones you'd want to be putting out @4W/Kg FTP to be at the sharp end of the race.

Most don't have any climbs of note so even if you drift back on the climb you'll still be in touch at the top.

Looking at the Deenside Cup in A4 I was putting out 360W for 10-12 minutes weighing about 70kg at the front end of A4 back in 2014 as an example.

Harrybelafonte · 01-02-2017 6:44pm

I'll tell you this as a pretty heavy A4 rider. The hills aren't that bad alone, it's the repeated element that kills. I wouldn't even bother doing Stamillen. There's no point. But most Leinster races are pretty flat.

koutoubia · 01-02-2017 7:05pm

InTheAttic wrote:

Well done koutoubia. Blame the riders behind for reprimanding the fella who's taking his eyes off the road at 40km/hr to turn around and talk to his clubmate. The same fella who mentioned he got caught up in a crash in the same race. Welcome to A4.

The guy is learning to ride in a bunch. Fair play to be able to take a drink and have a quick chat with a teammate that will eventually boost his confidence. But then you have some mouth giving him grief.
Some lads find it all too easy to forget that they had to learn somewhere.
He was caught up in a crash. That's racing for ya. From A4 to A1 to Vets to Pro.

harringtonp · 01-02-2017 8:20pm

Beasty wrote: »

Just to add, the best starting point, if there's one available, is a club league. A bit shorter, a bit slower and groups tend to be smaller. A much better environment to learn the ropes than starting in the deep end with Open racing.

Hour for our, our club racing is harder than most races. Its still the way to start though.

harringtonp · 01-02-2017 8:35pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Looking at the Deenside Cup in A4 I was putting out 360W for 10-12 minutes weighing about 70kg at the front end of A4 back in 2014 as an example.

I don't get it, in the Deenside Cup 2015 A3, Strava shows that I got up the climb (segment Full Glenmagoo Climb) first time round in the bunch at 300W weighing 78kg ...

Inquitus · 01-02-2017 8:37pm

harringtonp wrote: »

I don't get it, in the Deenside Cup 2015 A3, Strava shows that I got up the climb (segment Full Glenmagoo Climb) first time round in the bunch at 300W weighing 78kg ...

Edit actually looking at it again I had crashed the bike with the PM meter on it and was riding without that day, I didn't notice they were estimated numbers not real ones.

InTheAttic · 01-02-2017 8:48pm

koutoubia wrote: »

The guy is learning to ride in a bunch. Fair play to be able to take a drink and have a quick chat with a teammate that will eventually boost his confidence. But then you have some mouth giving him grief.
Some lads find it all too easy to forget that they had to learn somewhere.
He was caught up in a crash. That's racing for ya. From A4 to A1 to Vets to Pro.

Wrong again. This isn't about learning the basics of racing. In this instance it's about learning the etiquette of cycling in a group. You do that on a club beginner's group spin. The mistakes made in this instance are waaaay beyond mistakes made by entry level racers. How people can just buy a racing license and rock up at an open road race, with poor bike handling skills and not knowing group etiquette beggars belief! I dont want to end up in hospital because of some numpty who doesn't know how to ride a bicycle in a group, irrespective of a race or not.

RobFowl · 01-02-2017 9:19pm

InTheAttic wrote: »

I dont want to end up in hospital because of some numpty who doesn't know how to ride a bicycle in a group, irrespective of a race or not.

I've ended up in hospital because of numpty's who knew how to ride their bike but caused a racing accident.

It's a race and sh*t happens, if you want risk free sport take up tiddly winks wearing full body armour

A4 category

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