A4 category

dahat

It's wrecking the bike that I'm worried about tbh...

RobFowl

InTheAttic wrote: »

Sorry, but if an accident is caused by something as careless as taking your eyes off the road in front of you to look behind at a team mate, the person who causes the crash better hope that I'm not able to jump to my feet after and knock them out!

People do look behind in races you know !

InTheAttic

RobFowl wrote: »

People do look behind in races you know !

To have a chat? If they do it and I'm on their wheel, they're gonna know not to do it again.

07Lapierre

InTheAttic wrote: »

To have a chat? If they do it and I'm on their wheel, they're gonna know not to do it again.

I think your in the wrong sport! Bike racing is risky.

InTheAttic

07Lapierre wrote: »

I think your in the wrong sport! Bike racing is risky.

Nah, not in the wrong sport. Yep, I agree it is risky.

RobFowl

I've see far to many gob****es crash then go shouting ans swinging for some poor eejet who they perceived to be at fault. Many times I've seen it happen from close proximity and it was simply an accident. Never stops some gobbing off though.
Time to chill I think.

koutoubia

@ InTheAttic I think your missing the point of the whole A4 category.
Thats the last I am gonna say on it.

MileyReilly

AnneFrankInTheAttic sounds like a dangerous man. Knocking out and everything!

InTheAttic

koutoubia wrote: »

@ InTheAttic I think your missing the point of the whole A4 category.

Please enlighten me.

Furthermore, I'm not being intemperate.

People seem to be missing my point entirely, which is based on a post way back on the first thread.

My point in its most succinct form is this:

You should not turn up at an open road race without basic group riding skills.

koutoubia

InTheAttic wrote: »

Please enlighten me.

Furthermore, I'm not being intemperate.

People seem to be missing my point entirely, which is based on a post way back on the first thread.

My point in its most succinct form is this:

You should not turn up at an open road race without basic group riding skills.

OK.
Without getting into an argument.......
Where do you suggest riders who are new to the sport get experience of riding at 40kph in a group of 50 or more?

Inquitus

koutoubia wrote: »

OK.
Without getting into an argument.......
Where do you suggest riders who are new to the sport get experience of riding at 40kph in a group of 50 or more?

I have always found it's relatively easy to spot riders who aren't familiar with riding at speed in a group and just to avoid them in the bunch, no need to shout abuse at them or give out to them in the race, just simply steer clear.

koutoubia

Yep.
Shouting at them isnt exactly gonna make them relaxed!



I did say it was the last I was gonna say ....Internet argument 'FAIL'

If I invoke Godwins law will it help?


All A4 riders/newbies/shouters are like Hitler!

InTheAttic

koutoubia wrote: »

OK.
Without getting into an argument.......
Where do you suggest riders who are new to the sport get experience of riding at 40kph in a group of 50 or more?

That's fair enough.

But it's not the point I was making

JK.BMC

InTheAttic wrote: »

That's fair enough.

But it's not the point I was making

I will never forget a time in Wexford years ago; riding A4 and in a large bunch. One chap with a plain jersey and dark shades was all over the shop- now I mean really dangerous. He spent most of the race (75km maybe) in the first dozen or so in the bunch but every time he moved he acted like a bowling ball, caused about 3 crashes and brushed shoulders with numerous riders myself included. Fairly shocking carry on.
I think about 20 different fellas all joined an informal rota to tell this quarehawk to cop da feck on 'or else' etc. Made no difference- some people are utterly impervious to instruction or persuasion. I was wondering was he actually deaf- in the end, I think he was 2nd or 3rd over the line and gladly took his envelope, in spite of numerous mumbling and complaints afterwards.

You see, roaring at riders is actually a good thing in some cases. It can be useful in dealing with the occasional numptys. But overall, it's better to say nothing, keep calm, get away from the numptys wheel and pray for a safe passage. Or do what I did- upgrade to A3 if possible. Then you can moan instead about super juniors, super vets, big fields and all that jazz!

Isn't racing great in fairness!

InTheAttic

JK.BMC wrote: »

I will never forget a time in Wexford years ago; riding A4 and in a large bunch. One chap with a plain jersey and dark shades was all over the shop- now I mean really dangerous. He spent most of the race (75km maybe) in the first dozen or so in the bunch but every time he moved he acted like a bowling ball, caused about 3 crashes and brushed shoulders with numerous riders myself included. Fairly shocking carry on.
I think about 20 different fellas all joined an informal rota to tell this quarehawk to cop da feck on 'or else' etc. Made no difference- some people are utterly impervious to instruction or persuasion. I was wondering was he actually deaf- in the end, I think he was 2nd or 3rd over the line and gladly took his envelope, in spite of numerous mumbling and complaints afterwards.

You see, roaring at riders is actually a good thing in some cases. It can be useful in dealing with the occasional numptys. But overall, it's better to say nothing, keep calm, get away from the numptys wheel and pray for a safe passage. Or do what I did- upgrade to A3 if possible. Then you can moan instead about super juniors, super vets, big fields and all that jazz!

Isn't racing great in fairness!

Nothing beats racing anecdotes! This is a gem

CramCycle

If enough of you were of this opinion, surely he could have been reported to the comms?

JK.BMC

CramCycle wrote: »

If enough of you were of this opinion, surely he could have been reported to the comms?

He was
Nothing happened
Are riders ever disqualified?
I can't remember any

Raymzor

JK.BMC wrote: »

He was
Nothing happened
Are riders ever disqualified?
I can't remember any

At an Underage race last year in Leinster the winner took both hands of handlebars-don't know if he was disqualified but he certainly didn't get first prize.

The first A4 race of last season has a few learning nuggets. There were 5 crashes during the race, 3 of which happened in the last 10km. The first two happened due to water bottle fidgeting and a guy looking behind-concentration is key. The third was a rider making a rash move in the bunch when there was not enough space to do so-judgement is important. The fourth was the last one I saw as I ended up on the ground! A rider makes a big burst, runs out of steam, then stops pedaling, guy behind him hits him and I in turn made contact as I tried to brake hard, ran out of road, guy in front of me was sideways so I had nowhere to go so ended up in a slow speed fall-if you get tired your concentration decreases significantly but don't stop pedaling-also if you get a puncture or a mechanical put your hand up! The last crash was close to the finish line-I saw lots of folks over the year making a decision not to contest the sprint for self preservation purposes! After the third race of the season things settled down as riders were more comfortable in riding in the bunch.

daragh_

It wouldn't be a proper Boards February without an A4 horror story thread.

I've been at a few A4 races where the comm was very forceful about lads not looking behind them, not contesting the sprint if they weren't in the first ten and copping on about riding up the bunch on the wrong side of the road. I was almost thrown off a race for doing that myself - it was a lesson learned the easy way rather than the hard way :-)

I echo what's been said above - do your best to start off in a club league. If you can't then maybe avoid the early season races where there are huge bunches over flattish courses. Try and find races where there are going to be moto marshalls as they tend to be better behaved. Be aware of what's happening around you, stay calm and don't move around the bunch without letting those around you know. A bit of communication goes a long way.

And despite the horror stories remember that it's meant to be fun.

Miklos

So, with all the above in mind, what early season meat-grinders are people looking at this year?

Daroxtar

Zwift

CramCycle

Raymzor wrote: »

At an Underage race last year in Leinster the winner took both hands of handlebars-don't know if he was disqualified but he certainly didn't get first prize.

Which was disgraceful. No one around him, then a parent or senior member of another club running at the comms with the rule book. Daddys little star didn't win was the impression I got so no one should. I realise the rules, this is just my opinion. If I ever win a race (long shot) and I am nowhere near anyone (even longer shot), i plan to lose it by having both hands in the air like a champ.

levitronix

JK.BMC wrote: »

InTheAttic wrote: »

That's fair enough.

But it's not the point I was making

I will never forget a time in Wexford years ago; riding A4 and in a large bunch. One chap with a plain jersey and dark shades was all over the shop- now I mean really dangerous. He spent most of the race (75km maybe) in the first dozen or so in the bunch but every time he moved he acted like a bowling ball, caused about 3 crashes and brushed shoulders with numerous riders myself included. Fairly shocking carry on.
I think about 20 different fellas all joined an informal rota to tell this quarehawk to cop da feck on 'or else' etc. Made no difference- some people are utterly impervious to instruction or persuasion. I was wondering was he actually deaf- in the end, I think he was 2nd or 3rd over the line and gladly took his envelope, in spite of numerous mumbling and complaints afterwards.

You see, roaring at riders is actually a good thing in some cases. It can be useful in dealing with the occasional numptys.  But overall, it's better to say nothing, keep calm, get away from the numptys wheel and pray for a safe passage. Or do what I did- upgrade to A3 if possible. Then you can moan instead about super juniors, super vets, big fields and all that jazz!

Isn't racing great in fairness!

I raced last year after a 3 year break,  just done the one was racing BMX and doing  mtb so thought id have a go again, had a real good go in the spint clipped a few elbows getting out but just missed out another day i would of got top 3, the crap i heard from 2 people telling me how dangerous i was riding, One guy asked me had i never been in a bunch before. I recon this was all because i was in plain gear. When i was in club gear before racing i was never signaled out

JK.BMC

levitronix wrote: »

I raced last year after a 3 year break,  just done the one was racing BMX and doing  mtb so thought id have a go again, had a real good go in the spint clipped a few elbows getting out but just missed out another day i would of got top 3, the crap i heard from 2 people telling me how dangerous i was riding, One guy asked me had i never been in a bunch before. I recon this was all because i was in plain gear. When i was in club gear before racing i was never signaled out

Ah bit of elbow touching and flailing about in a sprint is of course, quite normal. And expected!
What I've noticed in the last 5 years are lads roaring all sorts of dubious things at others on the basis of safety, when in fact such 'advice' is not always the best course of action.

A funny one was this time on a club league race when a team mate had attacked and I went to the front and stalled the chase. One muppet roared at me 'roll over boy!!' thinking we were on a leisure spin; Another chappy lambasted me for 'chasing your team mate' down. In the meantime, the chap up the road held on for victory

Once again- if ur gonna shout, make sure it makes sense!

RobFowl

The Vets is a great pace for "advice". Every race I've ridden some voice from behind berates everyone else for not riding or chasing. Same voice never seems to actually do any shifts at the front

Any decent advice I've got over the years has been said quietly during the race or at the finish. The alpha males who threaten to knock you out or something similar invariable talk bollocks and are best ignored.

CramCycle

There are always one or two in every group at club races. I remember one time, one voice, "Up, Up Up" continuously. Eventually a louder booming voice told him to move up or shut up. Alway about 10 from the front, always leaves a small gap for someone to slip in if they are peeling off the front. Full of advice.]

I know the rules, I know the etiquette, I still mess up. I have nearly caused a crash or two, always apologised. Nearly got taken out by amateur mistakes but always survived. The worst I ever had was being driven into the ditch by a rider who knew me outside of racing and did not like me, decided I should get taught a lesson. I wish I had went up after him but after I got out of the side of the road, I decided just to spin around and go home. As it turns out, he has since been reported at several races for stupid behaviour in the bunch, so i am glad it was not just to me he appeared mentally inadequate for general human interaction.

Hungrycol

JK.BMC wrote: »

A funny one was this time on a club league race when a team mate had attacked and I went to the front and stalled the chase. One muppet roared at me 'roll over boy!!' thinking we were on a leisure spin; Another chappy lambasted me for 'chasing your team mate' down. In the meantime, the chap up the road held on for victory

I don't understand this. In the club league you are all against each other, right? Either way, that negative riding bugs me.

CramCycle

Hungrycol wrote: »

I don't understand this. In the club league you are all against each other, right? Either way, that negative riding bugs me.

You are, the only exception being a club champ race (against your own club only) and a TTT. In which case, you are only with the other three riders. This said, it is always nice to see a team mate do well, and you can get some good practice in for team tactics and several clubs do, which there is nothing wrong with.

mark.mck

willyS81 wrote: »

Any body any idea what the average speed would be over a 60/70km A4 category race
thanks

38km -42km

nilhg

Hungrycol wrote: »

I don't understand this. In the club league you are all against each other, right? Either way, that negative riding bugs me.

CramCycle wrote: »

You are, the only exception being a club champ race (against your own club only) and a TTT. In which case, you are only with the other three riders. This said, it is always nice to see a team mate do well, and you can get some good practice in for team tactics and several clubs do, which there is nothing wrong with.

In JK.BMC's case there it's an interclub league, team tactics are common enough, one of the best sprint trains I've seen was for two primes in a race up in narraghmore one evening