New legislation Messing with selling prices

handlemaster

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/new-laws-mean-landlords-will-sell-tenants-will-be-evicted-1.2955533

The new legislation not only making it less attractive for investors is actually forcing investors selling up to evict tenants.

Lumen

Says Keith Lowe, chief executive Douglas Newman Good estate agents.

The_Conductor

Lumen wrote: »

Says Keith Lowe, chief executive Douglas Newman Good estate agents.

Presumably he has first hand information to work from- unlike commentators speculating from the side lines?

listermint

The_Conductor wrote: »

Presumably he has first hand information to work from- unlike commentators speculating from the side lines?

Or wants to sell more houses promoting investors to sell quicker if they were on the fence.


Everyone has an angle.everyone

76544567

I would be one of those selling up.
Not only because my letting for below market rate has come to bite me, but also because landlords are being sh1t on from all angles.
Tax, rules, control of their properties etc.
And I don't believe for one minute those rules are temporary. If they are it will only be because they are replaced by worse rules and then they will be called temporary.

I have one going on the market very soon and another two before the next 6 months are out.
I'm just hoping I can get out ahead of the rush with them all.

If any of the first one isn't getting any interest at the price I market it at then I will be holding it by doing airbnb or similar until the lock on the rental amount is finished and then sell.

newacc2015

listermint wrote: »

Or wants to sell more houses promoting investors to sell quicker if they were on the fence.

Nah, I think the Government has done that job for him. If I had an apartment that I was fair with my tenants and increased the rent to €750 and now the market rate in the area is €1350. I can only increase the rent by 4% at the next rent review. If my tenants move out I can only legally rent it at €750 plus 4%. Plus I can only increase it by 4% pa for the next 3 years.

If I was to be rational, I know that 3 year rule is BS. Three years of the rental control will have only made the rental industry worse and when the Government goes to 'remove it', they won't be able to. It will be political suicide.

Less rent control mean if I had a property let at €750 instead of market rate of €1350, I would loss over €21k over the next three years alone. I dont need to read an article to sway me on that

Parchment

My landlord is anxious to sell up once we move out (soon). He said its a total joke at this point for him and its not worth the hassle.

The_Conductor

Parchment wrote: »

My landlord is anxious to sell up once we move out (soon). He said its a total joke at this point for him and its not worth the hassle.

This is what is going to happen more and more- particularly for smaller landlords- you'd almost need your head examined to remain letting one or two properties. Its going to add to the supply available for prospective purchasers (providing there are no sitting tenants)- however, its going to squeeze the supply of rental property.

76544567

Parchment wrote: »

My landlord is anxious to sell up once we move out (soon). He said its a total joke at this point for him and its not worth the hassle.

If he thinks it's a joke already...
Wait til interest rates go up or he has a big repair bill and then it dawned on him he can never recover the money spent.
That's when reality will really bite.

BrokenArrows

The 4% rule is a good idea except for the fact that it leaves no room for landlords who are way behind on the market rate.

There should be some condition where if a landlord is over 15% behind the market rate they can apply for larger increase than 4%. This would obviously need to go through some review to confirm the market rate etc.

The_Conductor

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The 4% rule is a good idea except for the fact that it leaves no room for landlords who are way behind on the market rate.

There should be some condition where if a landlord is over 15% behind the market rate they can apply for larger increase than 4%. This would obviously need to go through some review to confirm the market rate etc.

That's what should happen- however, it is politically expedient to hold up landlords are some sort of bogie men- and blame all the ills of the sector on them- as it distracts from looking at what our politicians have, and have not, done- and the effect their messing with the system has caused.

76544567

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The 4% rule is a good idea except for the fact that it leaves no room for landlords who are way behind on the market rate.

There should be some condition where if a landlord is over 15% behind the market rate they can apply for larger increase than 4%. This would obviously need to go through some review to confirm the market rate etc.

There is already a mechanism for a tenant to dispute their rent. The RTB.
Could easily just be done the exact same way as it is now if they think they are being charged over the market rent.

Samuel T. Cogley

I can see why it would be advantageous to move the small time LL's out of the sector. I don't have concrete numbers (I'd be delighted if someone does) but how many of us are holding on to property that really should be on the open market for people to purchase? With Ireland's regime of enforcement (or lack there of) it's impossible to enforce thousands of small time property investors -many of whom are broke, a few big companies would be much easier to manage.

None of this is going to have a downward effect on rental prices though if anything it'll increase them massively unless there is a serious crackdown on short term lets. As for the three year rule, I expect the government are relying on the courts to eventually over turn the legislation. There is clear precedent and once larger landlords get stuck below market rate it will be in their interest to progress it through the court.

Del2005

76544567 wrote: »

There is already a mechanism for a tenant to dispute their rent. The RTB.
Could easily just be done the exact same way as it is now if they think they are being charged over the market rent.

Not much use to a landlord charging less than the market rates though, I can't see many tenants lodging a case saying that they are paying several hundred per month less than the market and can it please be increased.

The_Conductor

The 3 years- conveniently boots it down the road into another government- and its built into the SI- so the SI will lapse unless its renewed- and there would have to be a conscious renewing of it (and indeed Alan Kelly's SI)- its not the sort of 'roll-over' legislation..........

Lumen

The_Conductor wrote: »

Presumably he has first hand information to work from- unlike commentators speculating from the side lines?

Who is speculating from the sidelines?

Samuel T. Cogley

Lumen wrote: »

Who is speculating from the sidelines?

Those on the sidelines speculating, presumably.

76544567

Del2005 wrote: »

Not much use to a landlord charging less than the market rates though, I can't see many tenants lodging a case saying that they are paying several hundred per month less than the market and can it please be increased.

I was replying to the point about letting landlords bring their rents to market rate before sticking them to the 4% rule. And the poster said that it would have to be monitored so that landlords didn't abuse it.
It doesn't matter though. I don't see this rule changing now. I just see worse to come.

Selik

Complete unenforceable - also can anybody currently find a property on Daft for below market rent at the moment. There has to be some but any ads I've looked at there's been zero mention of anything and the rent asked is at market value.

Also seeing alot of regular rentals (ie not short term) being advertised at weekly rates, which is interesting.

76544567

Selik wrote: »

Complete unenforceable - also can anybody currently find a property on Daft for below market rent at the moment. There has to be some but any ads I've looked at there's been zero mention of anything and the rent asked is at market value.

Also seeing alot of regular rentals (ie not short term) being advertised at weekly rates, which is interesting.

Nobody will be moving out of a below market rate property now.

Selik

Except tenants who are moving out to buy or live in another part of the country to give a couple of examples.

76544567

Selik wrote: »

Except tenants who are moving out to buy or live in another part of the country to give a couple of examples.

A very small portion of the market.

DubCount

Selik wrote: »

Complete unenforceable - also can anybody currently find a property on Daft for below market rent at the moment. There has to be some but any ads I've looked at there's been zero mention of anything and the rent asked is at market value.

Also seeing alot of regular rentals (ie not short term) being advertised at weekly rates, which is interesting.

+1

I cant believe all the properties advertised for rent are first time lettings.

Selik

Alot of places ready to rent and fully refurbed also. Amazing! I suppose one positive unintended consequence of the new laws - higher standards!

zdragon

Why more homes on sales is bad?
House ownership rates should increase.

I.E. the recent scandal with Beacon South Quarter - only 20% are home owners, the remaining are IRES Reit and other Property investment companies.

Another example ,I am looking to buy a house, builders have bumped prices in the past months by 80k without selling anything.

So more supply on the market will slowdown speculators too.

And final, how many rentals are way off below market rates ? 1%? 2%? I doubt it is 50%

Selik

I would say there are alot way off market rates. Have a look at Daft the only apartments for rent in the city centre are either short term, full market rate and/or returned and oh of course FIRST LETTING!