The end is nigh for anyone who lamps at night

cavan shooter

td5 wrote:

I can't see a problem with either informing the Gards before going out lamping or encountering the Gards while out lamping. If you have permission to be on the land. Its the cowboys with the "We will go were we like attitude " that spoils it for everyone else and there are plenty of those type about.

I will say it again why tell them. Should a deer stalker have to tell the Gardai they are shooting deer, or a pheasant shooter, game shooter or pigeon/duck shooter tell the Gardai they are going shooting.....or a clay pigeon shooter.

I have met the Gardai out lamping no bother...fact is lamping foxes at night is an effective and legitimate method of controlling foxes.

Same way as a fox drive is too.

dodderangler

On my rabbit permission last year I was called into the house. He asked me to let him know if I ever see anyone about. 30 pheasants killed and taken from a pen ( melanistics and some whites ) and a attempted robbery on a defender. They thought it was me with the lamp. This is why I always ring.

Mountainsandh

A terrible attitude, and I hope not all hunters approach the general public in your manner Cass.

Instead of saying knee-jerk I should have said agressive.

Cass wrote: »

The posts have been up for a day or more and i took my time to cover everything you said. Not knee jerk at all.

No, what came across was a smile and a head nod while associating people that lamp to burglars and making accusations about them not actual shooting foxes in a or near a forest., IOW you are implying they are poaching deer.

Of course I am absolutely implying they are poaching deer, I am also implying these are poachers, and possibly burglars.

It's not to say that I consider hunters like that. You do not come across as "perfectly calm", you come across as overly reactive to comments about poachers/lampers/burglars, ie pretty much paranoid about it.

I have made it clear that I have no way to know if they are legit, and since, after communication with the farmer, I know they are trespassing, and since, also, they fled the scene like actors in an action movie, I can reasonably assume they are not. The guards agreed, and the local hunter, in fact they were more certain about this than I was, and I was a bit remonstrated about not ringing the same night (I left it until the next day, mentioned it to the community alert people, who said to ring the guards as the guards wanted to know every little thing that happened in the community).

Lamping is "legit". What you are referring to is trespassing and i'd appreicate if you made the distinction.

These people who are trespassing are lamping. I am talking about people who are lamping, and trespassing, and possibly scouting at the same time. I am not implying they are legal hunters. The guards were not implying they were legal hunters, and ... the hunter didn't imply they were hunters.

Again, legal under most circumstances. Checking livestock, etc. So each time you see it and ring you make the assumption the person is shooting/hunting from the vehicle or is doing so without the proper license(s).

I saw the guys with the guns pointed out at the back of the vehicle.
I know the local farmer's cars/pick ups.
Incidentally he never lamps into his own land to check on livestock, he just drives in there with the tractor.

You said above he doesn't know the people on his own land. If he talks to everyone he gave permission to, then revokes it from the all, anyone on the land is trespassing. When those that trespass are aught the land owner can allow the lads he trusts back onto his land.

He is vague about it with me, I didn't say he doesn't know the people on his land, he just seems to think it's not that important to give me a name, and frankly it isn't, I couldn't care less. The way his farm is, he can only see part of it from his house. He relies on me to tell him if I spot anyone on the bits near me. Since the young lad who hunts on his land lets him know beforehand, and I meet the farmer most days on the road, he's able to tell me if there might be hunters some week-ends (it seems to be mostly week-ends). Having said that, there could be days when I don't meet him and then I might not know if someone was due on his land, so I'm always a bit uncertain. Thankfully I can text his wife and she lets him know.

One day 3 cars and vans came, stopped and blocked the road, and let dogs out into his land. I felt mortified afterwards when I asked him about it and he said he didn't know anything about it and was pretty annoyed. The guys were so brazen about it I assumed they were legit. I have stopped assuming that way, and now I assume the other way unless I'm told beforehand.

Accusing me of loosing my cool to cover your own actions is a weak and pointless exercise.

You have called lampers illegal, are ringing the Gardaí (via the land owner) for those engaged in legal activity, have likened or outright called lampers no better or actual burglars, and then accused lampers of poaching deer.

Again you are over-reacting. My own action is to do what I am asked to do by the local farmer, and the community alert scheme, ie guards + a hunter. (the hunter guy is in the committee)
Again the lampers I am talking about are illegal. Some lampers are legal, some are illegal. These lampers are illegal. I have been told to assume so on Tuesday, by gardai and a hunter.
I don't know how I could sugarcoat this to make it more palatable.
I am aware that some lampers do so legally.
I fully understand that lamping is part of a perfectly legal hunting activity, provided it's not for deer, and provided people are not trespassing.

These lampers are trespassing for sure, and possibly poaching deer.
They are lampers, they are illegally there, and likely to be poaching.
The association with legal hunters that you are on about is really in your head, I am quite clear about the difference.

The guards already know that there is poaching going on in my area, but because it wasn't associated with burglaries happening left right and center, they didn't seem to take action about it. Now that there's a feeling of insecurity around, they put two and two together, and tell us to look out for poachers or lampers and let them know.
They will be the ones to check it out, and let legal lampers merrily lamp.

If I got a phonecall from my farmer or the guards telling me there are guys going to be lamping tonight in that land, I would just say : "oh that's great, thanks for letting me know".
That's as simple as that.
If I have to ring the guards because I see lamps tonight, and they (or the farmer) get back on to me and say : "yeah, they're legit", I'll just go back to drinking my tea and watching Netflix.

I am not going to be outside with placards asking the guys to desist.

Perhaps this communication you speak off would also be a lot smoother if the general public, namely YOU, were not so quick to used veiled and not so veiled insults and threats. Your "won't someone please think of the children" argument holds no water and by the tone of your posts you simply want to know what is going on and it's more a case of being nosey rather than having a legitimate safety concern.

There are no insults and no threats, veiled or not. The situation is that I have to alert the guards, and they are going to check it out. This is done to ensure the safety of every one in the community since a gang has been going around terrorizing older folks in particular. It's not a sob story about people not liking a guy with a gun next field to them, because they're afraid the gun will go off.

This is about people who have been broken into already, sometimes assaulted. We don't want that to happen again, and people are alert to every bit of activity, especially in the darker hours. I have friends who are in their 70s, and they're afraid. Not of hunters, but yes of lampers, because lampers have shown lamps at houses recently. Not the legal lampers, the illegal ones.
These country folks are not afraid of hunters, sure a lot of them are hunters or know some. But they are afraid of lampers currently. Illegal ones.

I couldn't give a rat's arse who's going around doing the hunting, as long as I knew they're legal. Same with my older friends and neighbours with young families.

At the moment we have been told to take a phone pic of registration plates of every unusual parked car in the community.
As an amateur photographer myself, I was laughing that my car may well have been photographed dozens of times in other communities in the same predicament. This is the climate around my place right now.

Great to see such a waste of Garda time. Checking those out lamping. Can't get a Garda in less than two hours when your home is broken into, but good to know people won't walk across a field with a light without being checked. You know, in case they steal some grass.
Some people have little to be worried about.

Well, that's the guards you're talking about here.

We thought the gang was caught at the start of last week, some people had been caught, but they were released as they were not involved in the robberies. (these were not hunters)

Checking lamping at the moment is part of the investigation. As the guards see it, catching illegal lampers will help decide if they are the ones involved in the burglaries or not.
I am not making that up, it's what we were told.
Legal lampers and day hunters can continue to lamp and hunt to their hearts' content, once the guards and community know they've nothing to do with all that.
A phonecall on their part would save them from being stopped by an unmarked garda car, and so save on garda resources.

"Hi guard, I know there's been a bit of hassle over in ..... the last while, just to let you know I'll be hunting there tonight."
"Alright not a bother, thanks for letting us know, have fun".

Is that such an awful bother of a scenario ?

It's showing a bit of consideration for the community you're practicing your sport in, that' s being civic minded I guess. But you don't seem to care about that at all.

yubabill1

I think anyone who lives in the country has no time for these scouts.

Cass had a family member who was burgled, so he understands very well what is going on in your area OP.

We understand your concerns and those of your neighbours and the gardai.

I think it is enough for the locals to monitor lamping activity until these guys are caught. It would be a good idea for legit shooters to inform whoever they need to until the situation resolves, but on a voluntary and ad hoc basis.

I think legit lampers could be your best asset in this situation, but making notification compulsory would only evoke the typical Irish response to authority.

And remember, it was two lampers who intervened in Wicklow that led to Larry Murphy's arrest. It was disappointing that Gardai revoked their gun licences, though.

Hope these scouts get caught soon.

Mountainsandh

Yes I can understand how the suggestion to log in online or something might be borderline intrusive, or not practical.

In the meantime the quick phonecall, or a quick call into the farmer whose land lampers are going on would really help alleviate people's fears and pin crimes onto whoever does commit them.

Legit lampers and hunters in general would be a great asset alright, especially since our local burglars' modus operandi seems to be to spot properties prior, then come back later, park a car some way off, and walk through fields to enter properties from the back. That has repeatedly happened, and it makes spotting the cars difficult.

Hunters could very well find themselves in a position where they're the only witness to someone jumping over ditches in back fields. Farmers too I guess.

grassroot1

If I decide to go fox lamping at 10.30 at night (on a whim) I dont see why I as a firearm owner should have to tell anyone.
If there is a problem with deer poaching,robberies or any other anti social activities then it is the problem of the authorities and they should provide the resources to solve it.
And in addition if the sports coalition or anyone else think that interfering in fox control (night lamping) will solve deer poaching they are completely delusional.
rant over sorry

g00167015

Well said Grassroot.

DogfoxCork

"Those who were genuinely trying to get rabbits need have nothing to fear and would have no problem with Gardai approaching them, the Gardai said."

i dont think there is any implication in that article that the end is nigh for lamping... only that gardai are urging people to be more aware to dodgy behaviour, like pikeys scoping places out. a jeep in a field or smart lamping is probably not going to phase most folk. however waving a lamp around, being noisy and lamping up houses is definitely going to grab peoples attention.

*edit: And i see no mention of shotguns or rifles.

Cass

Mountainsandh, i'm not going to mulit-quote your posts above because frankly most of it is calling me names, making accusations that i've heard hundreds of times from people that cannot support a decent argument point so result to deflection by accusation.

What i will do reply in general.

You have from your first post made subtle references, implications, name associations, and veiled threat. Only when pushed by me did you decide to elaborate on all your previous comments by saying that there is, according to you, a burglary ring in your area and the Gardaí are actively patroling to cvombat this. Those out using a lamp are also being checked where possible to make sure they are not invovled.

Had you started with this information, regardless of its veracity, then any doubt or second guessing of your stand point might have been avoided. However none of it excuses the way you, not AGS or anyone else as it's you posting your opinions, have linked those that lamp to criminality, and poaching.

Your ignorance towards what is legal and what is not is making you use the term lampers incorrectly to the point you say some are legal and some are not. As i said above lamping is completely legal. The act of poaching is not. The act of hunting from a vehicle is not. So the use of a lamp in either scenario is secondary. Also those engaged in illegal activity are not lamping, they are breaking the law. So stop calling them lampers.

You resort at some point above to further innuendo about my defense of lampers, illegal, and how it must somehow pertain to me, Good one.

My defnese is off a sport that few understand, less wish to understand, but everyone is quick to condemn/blame. Without people lamping and doing vermin control the country would be awash with foxes, rabbits, and other vermin. Populations would explode, disease run rampant, and a cull would be necessary within 5 years. So to ban lamping at night is not only impractical, but stupid.

I could go on, but in an effort to save people reading another essay i'll wrap up. I will NEVER, EVER, register my location or intent to shoot with anyone at any time. Sports shooting contributes tens of millions of Euro per year to the exchequer. I am placed under constant scrutiny with warrantless home checks, having to divulge medical records, being background checked time and again. I do all this to continue in my sport and its enough.

Over the years the Gardaí have tried, and mostly failed, to introduce their own made up laws into firearm ownership. Some of it has been nipped in th bud nice and early, some has taken tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of Euro to fight in court. All because of the tools we use in our sport.

So yes i am defensive, and i will become aggressive in tone when necessary to defend my sport from the great unwashed/uneducated that are quick to point to the already burdened and demand more yet are prepared to cede nothing in return or by means of compromise.

DogfoxCork wrote: »

i dont think there is any implication in that article that the end is nigh for lamping...

*edit: And i see no mention of shotguns or rifles.

It's a nothing piece really.

It's like an article from a few weeks back were An Gardaí "appealed" for those that had no renewed their licenses to do so. Here is a good one for the Einstein that thought that would make a good article (both reporter and Garda press officer). It's yer jobs to make sure people have licenses, that they are up to date, and to remove firearms from those that don't have licenses.

The same with this article. Gets everyone in a flap, Gardaí get to take the temperature of the debate/topic by means of this forum and similar discussions elsewhere, people get a chance to call us nutters again, and in the end nothing will change.

Mountainsandh

This post looks completely irrational.


I have looked at this forum before to read a bit about poachers, so I know there are many rational posters on here, but your reaction above does not really show a flattering side of your sport.

Cass

More insult and deflection. Now you blame the sport for my personal comments.

That is okay though, i wouldn't expect you to accept responsibility for your comments..

Mountainsandh

Cass I'll have to refrain from posting either way as your posts are puzzling. There's nothing else I feel I can say to you anyway.

blackpearl

dodderangler wrote: »

On my rabbit permission last year I was called into the house. He asked me to let him know if I ever see anyone about. 30 pheasants killed and taken from a pen ( melanistics and some whites ) and a attempted robbery on a defender. They thought it was me with the lamp. This is why I always ring.

I would say it was a buzzard.

Captainaxiom

blackpearl wrote: »

I would say it was a buzzard.

You must be taking the proverbial,a buzzard taking 30 pheasants for a pen??

Cass

Everyone can now see i'm posting as a Moderator.

When i post as a regular poster, like in this thread so far, you'll see it is normal font and without a warning title.

As to the poster that decided it was their moral duty to come on here and lecture me as to what i can and cannot do.

No thanks.

If you've nothing to add to the thread topic then refrain from posting. Back seat moderating, telling someone when and how they must post, is a violation of the rules. You have not been infracted this time, but continue to disrupt the forum or thread and try to back seat moderate and infractions will be issued.

kunekunesika

Never coped the heavy font,is new to me, thanks for the clarification.

Cass

There has to be a differentiation of me (or any mod) writing as a Mod and a regular poster. Otherwise we could never post normally as everything we'd write would be classed as being "from a Mod" and held to such a stupid high standard we could never speak as ourselves. Granted people know this and still use it, but we're well used to the "You're a Mod, you should know better" attitude from them.

It's why all the Mods of the shooting forum will use heavy font, and give their post the title of "MOD NOTE". To make sure people know they are writing as a Mod.

It is also the reason every forum has more than one Mod. There are four on the shooting forum. There are also three Category mods that oversee the sports section. This way there is always someone impartial to turn to should anyone need a review and if a Moderator is already involved in the thread.

Grizzly 45

You would wonder that with the relatively cheap price of night vision these days,why the Hell anyone casing a farm or out poaching deer would want to advertise their presence by waving a damn spotlight about the countryside.
But I guess its Ireland...;)

listermint

So is it just accepted that if you buy a house in the country people can just walk across at night time with lamps and guns shooting on a whim.

I do comprehend the forum I'm now in but just reading the aggressive and selfish tone of the posts here opens your eyes to how one dimensional people are.

It's my sport f everyone else . With that attitude you wonder why changes in law's can get through so easily. Don't half make a case come across as unpopular with abrupt attitudes to anyone else not involved in the sport...


All things considered.

RossiFan08

listermint wrote: »

So is it just accepted that if you buy a house in the country people can just walk across at night time with lamps and guns shooting on a whim.

I do comprehend the forum I'm now in but just reading the aggressive and selfish tone of the posts here opens your eyes to how one dimensional people are.

It's my sport f everyone else . With that attitude you wonder why changes in law's can get through so easily. Don't half make a case come across as unpopular with abrupt attitudes to anyone else not involved in the sport...


All things considered.

If you read what Cass has said in this thread you will notice he has not once condoned any one walking across someones land on a whim. And he has in fact stated that people who partake in this are indeed breaking the law.

All of his points have been made with regards to lamping being carried out in a legal maner ie with the permission of the land owner and only taking safe shots.

I would agree with Cass statements and tone as uniformed opinions in Ireland have never helped with anything in Ireland and a lot of restrictions have been placed on the already strict firearm laws in Ireland due to them

listermint

RossiFan08 wrote: »

If you read what Cass has said in this thread you will notice he has not once condoned any one walking across someones land on a whim. And he has in fact stated that people who partake in this are indeed breaking the law.

All of his points have been made with regards to lamping being carried out in a legal maner ie with the permission of the land owner and only taking safe shots.

I would agree with Cass statements and tone as uniformed opinions in Ireland have never helped with anything in Ireland and a lot of restrictions have been placed on the already strict firearm laws in Ireland due to them

Well you have one poster making a fairly obvious answer of just logging yourself in to a local system . Which would be practically seconds worth of time and then it's excuse the pun shot down by posters saying what if they want to go out on a whim with a gun at half ten at night.

Then comparisons to fishermen .. I mean there seems to be an ignorance here that your waking across the countryside in pitch black with firearms and not everyone outside of the immediate club is comfortable with that.there has to be balance.

I've nothing against firearms owners at all and frankly people can do whatever sport they like but if you get defensive and over reactive to fairly mundane requests of letting someone know you will be own the area with a firearm at night then how can you expect people to side with your cause.

Legitimately..

Cass

Nice to see another new face.

listermint wrote: »

So is it just accepted that if you buy a house in the country people can just walk across at night time with lamps and guns shooting on a whim.

Of course not and if you knew the law surrounding firearm ownership and what we have to go through to not only get a firearm but to keep it you'd understand how laughable that comment is..

Trespass is one thing, trespass with a firearm is a whole other ball of wax. Carrying much stiffer fines and longer jail terms or both, and rightly so imo.

I do comprehend the forum I'm now in but just reading the aggressive and selfish tone of the posts here opens your eyes to how one dimensional people are.

Funny that you've never posted in the forum before, but in the last 24 hours we've had three new posters, to the forum not he site, come on over and "find" this thread.

Both other posters also made similar veiled remarks, but they won't stand. So either speak your mind or say nothing.

It's my sport f everyone else .

You have no concept of what we go through to get our firearms and the continuous scrutiny we are all under to maintain them.

With that attitude you wonder why changes in law's can get through so easily.

Whose attitude? Yours? Please don't try and preach about bad attitudes given your track record.

As for laws, what are you talking about?

Don't half make a case come across as unpopular with abrupt attitudes to anyone else not involved in the sport...

This forum gets more and more people coming onto it and accusing us of being all sorts when they simple don't understand. We have to defend ourselves at every turn and some of us, myself included, have had enough of trying to remain quiet while excusing myself to the ignorance that is those that hold themselves to a "higher" moral standard while all the while ignorant to what we do and why we do it.

You speak of looking out for oneself and not caring for others opinions or thoughts. Well it's a two way street. To get respect you must give it, and if none if forthcoming, none will be reciprocated.

Cass

listermint wrote: »

Well you have one poster making a fairly obvious answer of just logging yourself in to a local system . Which would be practically seconds worth of time and then it's excuse the pun shot down by posters saying what if they want to go out on a whim with a gun at half ten at night.

You're bastardising what was said. Be specific in what you ask.

If you mean can a person head out on a whim and cross any land they want then no. They cannot.

Can a person with permission on said lands go out on a whim, then yes, absolutely they can.

As for the registering where we are and what we will be doing, NEVER. For more reasons that i just don't want to.

Then comparisons to fishermen .. I mean there seems to be an ignorance here that your waking across the countryside in pitch black with firearms and not everyone outside of the immediate club is comfortable with that.there has to be balance.

I'm not following.

The topic of the thread is the use of lamps/light and lamping. Why would anyone be out walking with a firearm in the pitch black. It would be less than pointless.

As for the balance you call for. If the person has permission via written consent from the land owner or through a gun club to be on the lands then there is nothing anyone else can do about it.

99.5% of people involved in fieldsports will happily make compromises of a voluntary nature, however confrontational, ignorant and disrespectful attitudes like the ones displayed so far will only serve to antagonize and alienate any good fate you might have received.

I've nothing against firearms owners at all and frankly people can do whatever sport they like but if you get defensive and over reactive to fairly mundane requests of letting someone know you will be own the area with a firearm at night then how can you expect people to side with your cause.

Legitimately..

You do not understand the history of firearm ownership. You have not seen how a tiny, almost insignificant, gesture on behalf of the shooting community was taken, turned, bastardised and then used against us to remove some of our sport.

1. The 1972 temporary custody order. Was meant to be for 30 days to log and register all firearms. After the 30 days the Government said they would not license certain firearms which accounted for the larger percentage of the firearms handed up, and so the Government stole, illegally, tens of thousands of firearms.
2. November 2008. A short time after the senseless murder of Shane Geoghegan by a Limerick crime gang the Minister announces he is going to ban LEGALLY held firearms to combat the rise of gun crime. Within 7 months all new handguns are banned, those with them can keep them, but never will anew one be licensed again. Roll on 8 years and the amount of handguns is down from 2,000+ to about 160. Decimating entire disciplines of sport. And the gang land crime, well the recent shooting in the hotel in Dublin, and the large cache of AK47s should tell you how well that is going.
3. Currently the EU is trying to tackle terrorism by, you guessed it, banning LEGALLY held firearms. Considering the attacks used guns that are illegal to own, and other attacks used trucks and knives how in the f**k is a legal and registered firearm ban going to help?

These are only three of the major ones, but over the past 50 years there has been hundreds of larger and small attacks on our sports. From our own Government, to the EU, to simple things like trying to educate people to what we do and why.

However the reactions are always the same. We are "murderers" and "nutters" because we want to use firearms. We are demonised at every turn.

Well now we've had enough of taking the sh*t sandwiches. no more apologising for our sport or the tools we use. This forum is for our use and our benefit. We need explain ourselves to no one, and apolgies to no one.

If people cannot come on here, and they are welcome, and post/behave in a civil and respectful manner then their access to post here will be removed. It's that simple.

listermint

Cass wrote: »

Nice to see another new face.

Of course not and if you knew the law surrounding firearm ownership and what we have to go through to not only get a firearm but to keep it you'd understand how laughable that comment is..

Trespass is one thing, trespass with a firearm is a whole other ball of wax. Carrying much stiffer fines and longer jail terms or both, and rightly so imo.


Funny that you've never posted in the forum before, but in the last 24 hours we've had three new posters, to the forum not he site, come on over and "find" this thread.

Both other posters also made similar veiled remarks, but they won't stand. So either speak your mind or say nothing.


You have no concept of what we go through to get our firearms and the continuous scrutiny we are all under to maintain them.


Whose attitude? Yours? Please don't try and preach about bad attitudes given your track record.

As for laws, what are you talking about?

This forum gets more and more people coming onto it and accusing us of being all sorts when they simple don't understand. We have to defend ourselves at every turn and some of us, myself included, have had enough of trying to remain quiet while excusing myself to the ignorance that is those that hold themselves to a "higher" moral standard while all the while ignorant to what we do and why we do it.

You speak of looking out for oneself and not caring for others opinions or thoughts. Well it's a two way street. To get respect you must give it, and if none if forthcoming, none will be reciprocated.

First of all.

Don't assume I don't know the loops people have to go through to get a firearm and keep it my father in law has 2.

Secondly don't put words in my mouth I never said trespass so don't bother sticking that into posts.

As per your previous posts you have an extremely confrontational manner. Which may stem from the loops you go through to keep a license.But it doesn't mean. Sensible approaches can't be considered to protect you and people you may come into contact during the course of the sport.

Contrary to your single minded view it's not mainstream to travel across lands in pitch black with a firearm you will have to work around that by normalising it to others Ireland isn't a vast unpopulated existence . It goes hand in hand with that.

Completely negative reactions like what you've put up don't help your cause.


And pulling out a ban is actually incredible . There has been nothing uncivil about what I've posted.

I'm literally perplexed by your response so far perplexed.



Track record?

Jesus !

listermint

And please explain where I said you were nutters you have completely taken yourself off balance not read a word of what I wrote or my interactions with license holders and just chose to fill in the blanks were your saw fit because of some inbuilt reaction to alternate responses.

Cass

listermint wrote: »

First of all.

Don't assume I don't know the loops people have to go through to get a firearm and keep it my father in law has 2.

Have you any? If not then you haven't gone through the steps. Also 2, come back when you've gotten over 10 and see the difference in how you're treated.

Secondly don't put words in my mouth I never said trespass so don't bother sticking that into posts.

You were being vague so i clarified things. Be less vague and i won't have to.

As per our previous posts you have an extremely confrontational manner.

Otherwise known as a zero tolerance for bullsh*t. Also who is ""our"? Is this some sort of group effort to troll this forum?

Which may stem from the loops you go through to keep a license.

No, dealing with trolls.

But it doesn't mean. Sensible approaches can't be considered to protect you and people you may come into contact during the course of the sport.

Sensible and guaranteed methods are already in places. By me and everyone else that shoots. It's a moot point.

If you are referring to the registry then i will not be "Lojacked" by anyone and for security reasons i will not have when i'm out logged on any system for anyone to access. And if you think that is paranoia perhaps you should should the Garda Inspectorates review of the PULSE system and how "secure" it is and that is a closed system for Gardaí only.

In the report it was said the system is a wholly outdated in terms of efficiency but more importantly members are using it like Facebook to check up on people without a case number or reason for checking them out.

Now the worse case scenario is the system you want is run by a civilian authority. Paddy logs in, sees i'm out, makes a reference to Billy about it, who tells Johnny, who tells Mikey who is a theiving scumbag that tries to rob my house while i'm out or better again i come back to my car to find a large group looking to "lighten" my load by a firearm or two.

No thanks.

Contrary to your single minded view it's not mainstream to travel across lands in pitch black with a firearm you will have to work around that by normalising it to others Ireland isn't a vast unpopulated existence . It goes hand in hand with that.

Never siad it was. I said we use lamps.

As for vast unpopulated, it's not a busy as you think. Where i am there isn't another house for 6 miles, and in some places further.

There is a big world out there if you want to see it.

Completely negative reactions like what you've put up don't help your cause.

I have no cause. You are the one with the cause or more appropriately, agenda. This registration concept.

I have a 100% legal sport. If i don't agree with what you say do you think i should praise it, and go along with it so you ""feel" better?

Cass

listermint wrote: »

And please explain where I said you were nutters you have completely taken yourself off balance not read a word of what I wrote or my interactions with license holders and just chose to fill in the blanks were your saw fit because of some inbuilt reaction to alternate responses.

I never said you said it, so thanks for the abuse and insult but you've read it wrong yourself.

John_Rambo

Cass wrote: »

I never said you said it, so thanks for the abuse and insult but you've read it wrong yourself.

Cass, nobody mentioned "nutters" or "murderers" on this thread. Except you.

You're overreacting.

I think it's very obvious to everyone that there's undesirables carrying out nefarious activities under the guise of hunting. These dodgy characters are attacking your sport. Not the concerned people on this thread.

You're passion for your sport is obvious and admirable and I'm an end user of your endeavors. But ripping peoples threads apart, twisting their posts to make them out to be part of an anti-hunt brigade, taking offense and accusing people of making veiled threats when it's obvious they're not is jarring.

You're obviously a good guy. The sort of fella that would be the first to tackle poachers, illegal activities etc... But ease off on the civilians. Some might actually be on your side.

Cass

John_Rambo wrote: »

Cass, nobody mentioned "nutters" or "murderers" on this thread. Except you.

Did you read my posts above as i instructed listermint to do or did you decide to just jump in with an opinion?

I made the point about those names as an example of the insult levied at us over the years. Read the post above, again.

You're overreacting.

no i'm not, you're not reading properly or understanding at all, and blaming me for your short comings.

I think it's very obvious to everyone that there's undesirables carrying out nefarious activities under the guise of hunting.

There may well be, but so far i have nothing but the say so of anonymous people that have used veiled threats and insulting language towards all hunters/lampers as means of conveying this information. Not very conducive.

These dodgy characters are attacking your sport. Not the concerned people on this thread.

Please, with all due respect, don't try and play peacemaker. It's gone well past that.

The people that have posted have made their arguments and when i counter with my points they accuse me of being irrational, and puzzling. However they DO NOT EVER respond to the points i've raised.

In internet terms, they;re jangling keys in the hope i'l be so blinded by the accusations that i won't notice they did not answer. So when i push for n answer i'm over-reacting. If that is the case then they are under reacting.

But ripping peoples threads apart,

If their argument was strong how could i?

twisting their posts to make them out to be part of an anti-hunt brigade, taking offense and accusing people of making veiled threats when it's obvious they're not is jarring.

It's not????? Right so explain these to me please:

• They were trespassing, but I suspect they must also have been scouting

• Would you not care at all that you're upsetting law abiding, have-not-asked-for-anything people in their homes

• The only reason this is coming up now is because of the scumbags who scout. The guards are also of the opinion they scout, they have been caught shining lamps at people's homes.
  

• Do hunters not care that they may be causing upset ?

• burglaries right at the same time as a recrudescence of lamping

• since I presume it's not fox they're shooting into the woods at night with lamps

• but if you're in my area and the phone call was too much hassle, you're likely to get a visit from an unmarked garda car patrolling the local country roads

johnrambo wrote:

.. But ease off on the civilians.

Don't tell me to ease off the "civilians". I'm a civilian. I'm not AGS, Armed Forces, etc.

Some might actually be on your side.

If people come on here to make a point then either ask and and get an answer, possibly learning in the process, or make your point and stick to it and back it up with strong arguments and supporting facts.

If you cannot do that then either don't post or at the very least don't try to act the injured party. Making aspersions about me without replying to a single point i've raised is not a debate or argument, but an attack.

I don't see you telling them to ease of with the inflammatory language and comments.

cavan shooter

Mountainsandh wrote:

I have looked at this forum before to read a bit about poachers, so I know there are many rational posters on here, but your reaction above does not really show a flattering side of your sport.

Jesus...what did I start....I was out last night and got 4 foxes. But most importantly I got talking to the farmer and this topic of conversation came up.

Now this man was robbed a few years ago; during the day not at night an old massey Ferguson plough and scrap was taken. He has cctv and it was done during the day. The reg was clear for all to see. He got a letter from the Gardai expressing their sympathy that he was a victim of crime a reference number and SFA else..I ring him when I'm going up onto his land, he sometimes comes with me we always have a cup of tea and I'd say most of us lamping foxes have a ritual like that. He isn't impressed with the "Gardai nowadays or blow ins from the cities or towns looking for a piece of rural heaven" his words not mine. He got reported for shooting and hanging jackdaws over bails by a woman who also gave out to him about my larsen trap being cruel (she is a walker woman). To cut to the chase...he said the that the only person I need permission from or should be ringing to say what im doing is him as it's happening on his land......the rest can go and jump and mind their own buisness.