British monarch references painted over on street signs.

steddyeddy

I think this island goes forward with an acceptance of different cultures. We complain about the DUP and others rejecting Irish in the North, unionists having palpatations after seeing Irish on manhole cover ect. If there's elememts of Irish culture, like Irish language or place names that have been surpressed under British rule, then do everything to restore that. If it's just British names that people want to change then I'd disagree. We're better than people like the DUP. Let's not get a reputation like theirs.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think this island goes forward with an acceptance of different cultures. We complain about the DUP and others rejecting Irish in the North, unionists having palpatations after seeing Iridh on manhole cover ect. If there's elememts of Irish culture, like Irish language or place names that have been surpressed under British rule, then do everything to restode that. If it's just British names that people want to change then I'd disagree. We're better than people like the DUP. Let's not get a reputation like theirs.

Yes, rather than focus on small scale stupidity and bigotry like what these guys are up to, our focus should be on the large scale institutionalised bigotry. Maybe the faux outrage is being orchestrated to obscure this stuff, 'the last cries of bigoted unionism':

The Council of Europe has said that there is a "persisting hostile climate" towards the Irish language in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

It said growth and promotion of the language in Northern Ireland is being blocked by hostile attitudes in Stormont and a lack of support for its use in the courts and in education.

European chiefs have warned authorities they may also be in breach of a charter of rights because of delays and attempts to block requests for bilingual street names.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0116/498160-irish-northern-assembly/

A Little Pony

Well that is obvious because the DUP has said it doesn't want to implement it because of the costs. Its not a conspiracy and the DUP trying to hide it. Its actually part of the election for them.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Of course they are. They are Irish Republicans in ideology. It would be like me saying the Orange Order aren't Unionists.

Despite the fact that clear evidence of ex IRA prisoners and SF preserving and restoring the very first symbols/bastions of the plantation has been shown, you are going to insist that they are the 'same thing'?

Carry on with the self delusion, you cannot be helped to understand. Just like a few others here, your bias has clearly blinded you.

I didn't say they are exactly like Sinn Fein or anything like it. But maybe if they took it up with Sinn Fein to start a dialogue in the Dail about it? They obviously seem passionate about erasing the British oppressors or something like that.

Cortina_MK_IV

A Little Pony wrote: »

I didn't say they are exactly like Sinn Fein or anything like it. But maybe if they took it up with Sinn Fein to start a dialogue in the Dail about it? They obviously seem passionate about erasing the British oppressors or something like that.

Well their last stunt was burning the EU flag because they want out of the EU. They also passionatel support Brexit so not sure how this dialogue with anti-Brexit Sinn Fein might go.

maryishere

steddyeddy wrote: »

We're better than people like the DUP. Let's not get a reputation like theirs.

Too late, Shinners have a worse reputation than the DUP. In the eyes of many, Sinn Fein and the Provisional IRA were two wings of the same organisation. 60% of the deaths in the troubles and 99% of destruction to property was caused by Republicans.
Do you remember at some point during the peace talks, there was a memorable exchange between Martin McGuinness and Brian Cowan. It was quite interesting. Martin McGuinness stated that Sinn Fein would "have to consult the [PIRA] army council on this" over certain proposals. Our then Taoiseach Brian Cowan thought for a minute and replied "Yeah, well, there's a mirror in the toilet if you want to go in there and talk to them".

A Little Pony

maryishere wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

We're better than people like the DUP. Let's not get a reputation like theirs.

Too late, Shinners have a worse reputation than the DUP.   In the eyes of many,  Sinn Fein and the Provisional IRA were two wings of the same organisation.  60% of the deaths in the troubles and 99% of destruction to property was caused by Republicans.  
Do you remember at some point during the peace talks, there was a memorable exchange between Martin McGuinness and Brian Cowan.  It was quite interesting.  Martin McGuinness stated that Sinn Fein would "have to consult the [PIRA] army council on this" over certain proposals.  Our then Taoiseach Brian Cowan thought for a minute and replied "Yeah, well, there's a mirror in the toilet if you want to go in there and talk to them".

Absolutely brilliant!

LordSutch

steddyeddy wrote: »

We're better than people like the DUP. Let's not get a reputation like theirs.

Or Sinn Fein for that matter.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Well that is obvious because the DUP has said it doesn't want to implement it because of the costs. Its not a conspiracy and the DUP trying to hide it. Its actually part of the election for them.

It's stupid to think the DUP are thinking about the costs considering the blank cheques they signed for sectarian orginisations. Truth is they're bigoted against Irish culture. It's fantastic that there is international recognition for this.

maryishere

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's stupid to think the DUP are thinking about the costs considering the blank cheques they signed for sectarian orginisations. Truth is they're bigoted against Irish culture. It's fantastic that there is international recognition for this.

I suppose if you repeat that often enough you will believe it. All the while ignoring the elephant in the room, Sinn Fein, who done more than "sign for sectarian organisations." Truth is Republicans are just as bigoted against British culture, if not more so, considering how much was blown up etc.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Well that is obvious because the DUP has said it doesn't want to implement it because of the costs. Its not a conspiracy and the DUP trying to hide it. Its actually part of the election for them.

It's stupid to think the DUP are thinking about the costs considering the blank cheques they signed for sectarian orginisations. Truth is they're bigoted against Irish culture. It's fantastic that there is international recognition for this.

I wish I could say the Unionist people care that they don't want to implement the Act but I would be lying to you. DUP will clean up and become the largest party exactly because of this demand.

steddyeddy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, rather than focus on small scale stupidity and bigotry like what these guys are up to, our focus should be on the large scale institutionalised bigotry. Maybe the faux outrage is being orchestrated to obscure this stuff, 'the last cries of bigoted unionism':


http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0116/498160-irish-northern-assembly/

Even my colleagues in England think these guys are bigots. The funny thing is they can't even stand by their convictions. When talking about gays, ethnicities or Irish they manufacture excuses like cost, tradition or the rest, when in reality they just dislike people of different sexuality ect.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

I wish I could say the Unionist people care that they don't want to implement the Act but I would be lying to you. DUP will clean up and become the largest party exactly because of this demand.

Not all unionists are bigots mate. A large portion don't vote for this lot.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I wish I could say the Unionist people care that they don't want to implement the Act but I would be lying to you. DUP will clean up and become the largest party exactly because of this demand.

Not all unionists are bigots mate. A large portion don't vote for this lot.

Its not a question of 'bigotry'. The DUP dominate Unionist politics at the minute and come the election they will still be the largest party because that is who the Unionist electorate vote for in huge numbers.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Its not a question of 'bigotry'. The DUP dominate Unionist politics at the minute and come the election they will still be the largest party because that is who the Unionist electorate vote for in huge numbers.

What percentage of unionists vote for them?

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Its not a question of 'bigotry'. The DUP dominate Unionist politics at the minute and come the election they will still be the largest party because that is who the Unionist electorate vote for in huge numbers.

What percentage of unionists vote for them?

Large enough for them to win election after election. I voted UUP candidate in 2015, the DUP candidate still won the Westminster seat. I am not voting because 1) - I know the DUP will win anyway and 2) - Stormont is a diabolical institution.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Its not a question of 'bigotry'. The DUP dominate Unionist politics at the minute and come the election they will still be the largest party because that is who the Unionist electorate vote for in huge numbers.

ALP the DUP are the party political twins of these guys painting out references to Britain. These guys would not be elected to a parish council in the south, but the DUP are elected by huge numbers, as you say yourself. Says a lot eh?

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Its not a question of 'bigotry'. The DUP dominate Unionist politics at the minute and come the election they will still be the largest party because that is who the Unionist electorate vote for in huge numbers.

ALP the DUP are the party political twins of these guys painting out references to Britain. These guys would not be elected to a parish council in the south, but the DUP are elected by huge numbers, as you say yourself. Says a lot eh?

Sinn Fein can't get close to power in the Republic as the Irish people don't trust them with the economy.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein can't get close to power in the Republic as the Irish people don't trust them with the economy.

What?

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein can't get close to power in the Republic as the Irish people don't trust them with the economy.

What?

The DUP and Sinn Fein are the deadlock parties. Neither are competent or any good but they suit the society they belong to. Once Sinn Fein enter into a normal political arena which is the Irish Dail, they are terrible and don't win elections. Its a good job no Unionist parties get involved in any ROI elections.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

The DUP and Sinn Fein are the deadlock parties. Neither are competent or any good but they suit the society they belong to. Once Sinn Fein enter into a normal political arena which is the Irish Dail, they are terrible and don't win elections. Its a good job no Unionist parties get involved in any ROI elections.

I'll try again.

ALP the DUP are the party political twins of these guys painting out references to Britain. These guys would not be elected to a parish council in the south, but the DUP are elected by huge numbers, as you say yourself. Says a lot he?

maryishere

A Little Pony wrote: »

Sinn Fein can't get close to power in the Republic as the Irish people don't trust them with the economy.

Not just the economy, many people here are suspicious of Sinn Fein because they are associated with extreme Republicanism. Some would not go in to government with them. The DUP go in to government with Sinn Fein and yet you have hypocrites here say the DUP are the bigoted ones!

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

ALP the DUP are the party political twins of these guys painting out references to Britain.

No they are not : the majority of the DUP do not break the law and never broke the law. Those destroying public property (street signs ) are breaking the law.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The DUP and Sinn Fein are the deadlock parties. Neither are competent or any good but they suit the society they belong to. Once Sinn Fein enter into a normal political arena which is the Irish Dail, they are terrible and don't win elections. Its a good job no Unionist parties get involved in any ROI elections.

I'll try again.

ALP the DUP are the party political twins of these guys painting out references to Britain. These guys would not be elected to a parish council in the south, but the DUP are elected by huge numbers, as you say yourself. Says a lot he?

Doesn't say anything as the two regions are just completely different. Different culture, different political system, different electorate, different history, different economy.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Doesn't say anything as the two regions are just completely different. Different culture, different political system, different electorate, different history, different economy.

The DUP will not tolerate any acceptance of Irish culture, from manhole covers to flags to the Irish language just like these guys will not tolerate British left memorabilia.
Twins.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The DUP will not tolerate any acceptance of Irish culture, from manhole covers to flags to the Irish language just like these guys will not tolerate British left memorabilia.
Twins.

There are more Irish flags flying in that part of the UK than there are Union flags flying in this jurisdiction. The tricolour to them is the flag of a foreign jurisdiction, and the flag which draped the coffins of so many terrorists which bombed and murdered their citizens. Not surprised they do not like it. I am not surprised they do not like the Irish language, many here do not like it too much either and do not want to see taxes increased to pay for it.

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

There are more Irish flags flying in that part of the UK than there are Union flags flying in this jurisdiction. The tricolour to them is the flag of a foreign jurisdiction, and the flag which draped the coffins of so many terrorists which bombed and murdered their citizens. Not surprised they do not like it. I am not surprised they do not like the Irish language, many here do not like it too much either and do not want to see taxes increased to pay for it.

So unreasonable twins then.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So unreasonable twins then.

Except one twin breaks the law, and the other twin (like most DUP ) does not.

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

Except one twin breaks the law, and the other twin (like most DUP ) does not.

You don't need to break the law to be a bigot.

Twins in ideology mary, unreasonable twins and democrats should be against both.
I know I am.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You don't need to break the law to be a bigot.

So because some people in the DUP do not want taxes increased to pay for more handouts to the Irish Language, you think all DUP are bigots?

And you do not think the people involved in the Stronge double murder, were bigots, do you? Yes or no?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-20854772

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

So because some people in the DUP do not want taxes increased to pay for more handouts to the Irish Language, you think all DUP are bigots?

And you do not think the people involved in the Stronge double murder, were bigots, do you? Yes or no?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-20854772

Yes I do think on review of everything the DUP do, that they are bigots.

No, I don't think those who carried out the killings of the Stronges were bigots. They were targeted because of their positions in government and the security forces during a conflict/war. As often happens. See attempts to take out Hitler, Saddam Hussein, the 1916 leaders etc etc etc etc. :rolleyes:

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes I do think on review of everything the DUP do, that they are bigots.

No, I don't think those who carried out the killings of the Stronges were bigots.

So a gang of 10 who murdered a 87 year old retired man, and set fire to his house afterwards as it was a British type house, were not bigoted? I suppose next you will be saying the Republican "lads" who murder Protestant workmen in the Kingsmill atrocity were not bigoted either?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

So a gang of 10 who murdered a 87 year old retired man, and set fire to his house afterwards as it was a British type house, were not bigoted? I suppose next you will be saying the Republican "lads" who murder Protestant workmen in the Kingsmill atrocity were not bigoted either?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre

Politically motivated is not the same thing as being inherently bigoted, no.

The conflict/war is over, I see evidence of the inherent bigotry that caused that conflict still in existence. And I am not the only one.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Politically motivated is not the same thing as being inherently bigoted, no.

Most politically motivated people engaged in elections etc. They could and most people did obey the laws of the land and did not murder etc.

Surely murdering innocent workmen, or 87 year old fragile old men and then burning his house, because they were Protestants shows that the murderers were bigoted / is the ultimate manifestation of bigotry? You cannot compare someone who murders to a law abiding person who does not want to pay increased taxes?

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

Most politically motivated people engaged in elections etc. They could and most people did obey the laws of the land and did not murder etc.

Surely murdering innocent workmen, or 87 year old fragile old men and then burning his house, because they were Protestants shows that the murderers were bigoted / is the ultimate manifestation of bigotry? You cannot compare someone who murders to a law abiding person who does not want to pay increased taxes?

I wasn't making any comparisons, you were. And I am not having the same tired and off topic debate where you cherrypick the events you wish.

I made a comparison between what these guys are doing and what the DUP have been doing which has collapsed the institutions.
They are identical in aspiration.
So far you have only come out against one of them.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I made a comparison between what these guys are doing and what the DUP have been doing which has collapsed the institutions.

It was actually the Shinners who collapsed the institutions : the DUP did not want yet another distracting , wasteful election when there was work to be done.

I have yet to see evidence of the DUP spray painting public signs.

Interesting that you think those who "murdered innocent workmen (eg Kingsmill ) , or 87 year old fragile old men and then burning his house, because they were Protestants " were not bigoted but those who obey the law and engage in politics are, to a man/woman, bigoted.

LordSutch

maryishere wrote: »

There are more Irish flags flying in that part of the UK than there are Union flags flying in this jurisdiction.

Talking of which, why is the Union flag not flown here on hotels & outside pubs? Always catches my eye in Wales & parts of England just how many hotels & pubs etc fly the Irish tricolour ... then on my return to these shores just how few Union flags you see here :cool:

...considering the massive trade & tourist dependency on the UK.

FrancieBrady

LordSutch wrote: »

Talking of which, why is the Union flag not flown here on hotels & outside pubs? Always catches my eye in Wales & parts of England just how many hotels & pubs etc fly the Irish tricolour ... then on my return to these shores just how few Union flags you see here :cool:

...considering the massive trade & tourist dependency on the UK.

Can you show us an example of somewhere that it is missing? I don't know many hotels that do that flag thing so you should be able to narrow it down.
I seen our flag back to front a few times abroad, does that count on the outrageometer?

steddyeddy

LordSutch wrote: »

Talking of which, why is the Union flag not flown here on hotels & outside pubs? Always catches my eye in Wales & parts of England just how many hotels & pubs etc fly the Irish tricolour ... then on my return to these shores just how few Union flags you see here :cool:

...considering the massive trade & tourist dependency on the UK.

I think you're seeing an insult where there is none bud. #siegementality.

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

It was actually the Shinners who collapsed the institutions : the DUP did not want yet another distracting , wasteful election when there was work to be done.

I have yet to see evidence of the DUP spray painting public signs.

Interesting that you think those who "murdered innocent workmen (eg Kingsmill ) , or 87 year old fragile old men and then burning his house, because they were Protestants " were not bigoted but those who obey the law and engage in politics are, to a man/woman, bigoted.

Ah, the 'bad Republicans, shiny DUP' fantasy. Great.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah, the 'bad Republicans, shiny DUP' fantasy. Great.

No. I am simply showing you hypocrisy when you think the Republican "lads" who "murdered innocent workmen (eg Kingsmill ) , or 87 year old fragile old men and then burning his house, because they were Protestants " were not bigoted but those who obey the law and engage in politics or vote for legitimate political parties are, to a man/woman, bigoted.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you show us an example of somewhere that it is missing?

Last time I was in Knock, Co. Mayo which was many years ago there were about 20 flagpoles and all well known countries represented except - you guessed it - the UK. It has probably changed since.

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

Last time I was in Knock, Co. Mayo which was many years ago there were about 20 flagpoles and all well known countries represented except - you guessed it - the UK. It has probably changed since.

To be honest I wouldn't believe your oath. You will have to back it up. See can you cut and paste some evidence there.

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

No. I am simply showing you hypocrisy when you think the Republican "lads" who "murdered innocent workmen (eg Kingsmill ) , or 87 year old fragile old men and then burning his house, because they were Protestants " were not bigoted but those who obey the law and engage in politics or vote for legitimate political parties are, to a man/woman, bigoted.

Because it is the truth. Ask them to go to a GAA game or to respect the language and what do you get?

The evidence speaks for itself, post conflict they have been continually shown to be bigoted. Arlene plays to the rabble all the time.

Cortina_MK_IV

maryishere wrote: »

No. I am simply showing you hypocrisy when you think the Republican "lads" who "murdered innocent workmen (eg Kingsmill ) , or 87 year old fragile old men and then burning his house, because they were Protestants " were not bigoted but those who obey the law and engage in politics or vote for legitimate political parties are, to a man/woman, bigoted.

Coincidentally Barney Greene was also 87, he was murdered by the UVF just because he was a Catholic. But of course a dead Catholic wouldn't suit your obscene agenda.

FrancieBrady

Cortina_MK_IV wrote: »

Coincidentally Barney Greene was also 87, he was murdered by the UVF just because he was a Catholic. But of course a dead Catholic wouldn't suit your obscene agenda.

We could be here to next week with the tragic whataboutery. Mary always wants to talk about cherry picked conflict/war deaths. Exploitative faux outrage. Every single death was tragic. End of.

A Little Pony

Anyway, we all agree this vandalism is a disgrace.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Anyway, we all agree this vandalism is a disgrace.

Yes, disrespecting the culture of others on a shared island is bigoted vandalism.

maryishere

Cortina_MK_IV wrote: »

Coincidentally Barney Greene was also 87, he was murdered by the UVF just because he was a Catholic. But of course a dead Catholic wouldn't suit your obscene agenda.

It actually does suit my "agenda", because my point is that there are bigots and extremists on both sides in N. Ireland. The UVF who murdered Barney Greene were certainly bigots and they dererved to be caught and locked away for a very long time, just like IRA murderers. However, the point is Francie thinks " those who murdered innocent workmen (eg Kingsmill ) , or 87 year old fragile old men and then burning his house, because they were Protestants " were not bigoted but those who obey the law and vote and engage in politics are, to a man/woman...all hundreds of thousands of them...bigoted !

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

It actually does suit my "agenda", because my point is that there are bigots and extremists on both sides in N. Ireland. The UVF who murdered Barney Greene were certainly bigots and they dererved to be caught and locked away for a very long time, just like IRA murderers. However, the point is Francie thinks " those who murdered innocent workmen (eg Kingsmill ) , or 87 year old fragile old men and then burning his house, because they were Protestants " were not bigoted but those who obey the law and vote and engage in politics are, to a man/woman...all hundreds of thousands of them...bigoted !

You don't need to break the law to be a bigot, you need decades of having the law on your side and owning the police. The DUP are the last vestiges of a sectarian bigoted state. And they have been told their time is up. Share power respectfully and per the agreement or get lost.
Harking back to a conflict/war that is over for 20 years is not going to hide that.