Is it time to stop eating meat?

andekwarhola

I approach my food like any other sector of my life: avoiding lunatic extremes of any hue.

Ol' Donie

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Forget about giving up meat completely. How about halving what you eat? We eat way too much of it. Most of it processed, which contributes greatly to colo-rectal and bowel cancers. Why not?
This whole "LOL no way bacon tastes too yummy " is just ignorance at the highest level. Your kids will suffer the way things are going, we have no idea what their kids are in for. We consume way too much meat and meat production has a negative impact on the planet. Why would you not want to do your bit?

Another thing - why can't we just let our seas replenish for a few years? Subsidise fishermen, or do whatever we have to do to keep them happy, and just let our stocks grow again. Why is everyone so short sighted?

From what I understand, the greedy ruthless depletion of fish stocks is the more critical of two serious issues here.

Here's a tip for anyone wrestling with this (i admit I find it tough myself and need to do better): everything in the world tastes better with chilli. Buy some chilli flakes (or my beloved Inferno sauce) and lash it on everything from stir frys to cheese on toast. You can easily skip meat for many meals using this simple tip.

Shenshen

MarchFreeze wrote: »

In general yes humans need meat for optimal health as it has dense nutritional value. Liver in particular is possibly the single most nutrituous food you can eat, that and maybe oysters or sardines.

In general, we don't have a problem getting enough nutrients in the modern Western world. If anything, we have the opposite problem.

We have developed an infrastructure here where meat is a choice, not a necessity.
So if you want to eat meat, by all means, go for it. But please don't pretend that you do it because there's no other option.

Shenshen

MarchFreeze wrote: »

Tell me what non meat product can replace liver?

You seem rather obsessed with a particular piece of meat that, while healthy if eaten in small doses, can actually be fatal if too much of it is consumed.

Graces7

Shenshen wrote: »

You seem rather obsessed with a particular piece of meat that, while healthy if eaten in small doses, can actually be fatal if too much of it is consumed.

Agree totally. Too much vitamin A. I remember reading how little polar bear liver you can eat without death .

In days long since, they made folk with illness drink warm blood fresh at the slaughter house.

And within ( my ) living memory, raw liver was the cure for anaemia.

Thankfully we now have more sophisticated, scientific and accurate ways of providing supplements.

So we can choose no meat and stay healthy... I used to be anaemic and that was in my meat eating days. Am no longer so. Not eaten red meat in years.

By all means eat what you choose, as all of us can do . I have no deficiency issues. Used to love liver and onions; now the thought of it! Yukk!!!

Hande hoche!

In fairness it's more consumption of muscle meat than offal that is the issue. In some butchers they are practically giving the latter away.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Shenshen wrote: »

You seem rather obsessed with a particular piece of meat that, while healthy if eaten in small doses, can actually be fatal if too much of it is consumed.

Water is also fatal if too much of it is consumed.

Shenshen

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Water is also fatal if too much of it is consumed.

It is indeed, but it's harder physically to drink 6 litres in 3 hours than it is to eat 500g of polar bear liver.

Incedentally, it's recommended to eat no more than 50g of liver a week. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jan/16/medicineandhealth.food

TeddyTedson

TeddyTedson wrote: »

However, having so many farmed animals on the planet is a major factor in terms of climate change.

Turns out they can massively improve that with changes in diet. They have found for example that feeding cattle with onion or garlic has a _very_ significant impact on the quantity of methane they fart out. The main issue at the moment is not reduction of the methane - but doing so without changing the flavour of the milk. Garlic milk is not really the top of many peoples list of breakfast choices it seems.

joejoe87 wrote: »

I'm conflicted , I love the taste of certain meats but I'm very aware of animal welfare and the general effects on the planet. When the lab grown meat becomes affordable I'd switch completely to laboratory grown meat and I'd definitely be willing to pay more for it

It is very interesting how many people say they would not switch - _even if_ the price and taste was the same. There is some quantity of people who just think there is something "ick" about the idea that no rational part of their mind can over come.

How many of those would "fall in line" once such products became prevalent however is anyone's guess. But my guess would be: Most of them.

What will be interesting is seeing if - when lab grown meat undermines most of the ethics we have around the consumption of meat - what will happen in and around the subject of the consumption of human meats. Much of the ethical and health concerns that form our moral repugnance for cannibalism maybe would not apply to a lab grown human steak.

A lot of people enjoy trying "exotic" meats - I wonder how many people would be interested to eat human - were such concerns out of the picture. I have to say - as someone who has already consumed a meal based on human placenta - I would have to give it due consideration if offered.

Mr. FoggPatches wrote: »

No meat, no fish? What's left?

A few sources I have heard seem to think insects of various kinds are the food of the future.

Peregrine wrote: »

But, no, seriously, it's vital that we reduce consumption. The current levels are just not sustainable. Most people would rather cover their ears than have to hear that though.

Consumption and waste reduction would both be great to see. I have several times been in houses where we were served a dinner of meat portions too big for anyone - and left overs were tossed in the bin - and another meat is cooked up for dinner the following evening.

In my own house things like steak are not too over sized - and all the left overs are cut into nice strips and included in a stir fry the next day.

And while I can not see myself ever turning vegetarian or vegan - 2 or 3 days a week I do cook meals without meat. And not even for moral or environmental reasons. Meat on every day - especially every dinner - is just _boring_ to me.

Grandeeod wrote: »

I've done the meat free week or two and felt ****.

There is a podcast I like and the owner of it was convinced of the philosophical reasoning behind going veggie do he did. Then in an AMA on reddit later he was asked how he was getting on. He said he had to admit it was not going well. A couple of weeks into it he just felt crap _all the time_. Not sleeping right, not feeling right, energy levels all over the place, embarrassing gastronomical issues, concentration varying.

He is still committed to the project - but involving his doctors a lot more in the process trying to find the right balance in his life. But it seems true to say that a quick switch does not work for everyone.

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Who's f**king forcing views on anyone? I hate this. People get so insecure about the idea of eating less meat - it's immediately responded to with "JESUS CHRIST STOP RAMMING YOUR VIEWS DOWN MY THROAT".

I wonder - is ramming your fist down someone's throat doubly offensive to a vegetarian

Lady Haywire wrote: »

The only thing I can't abide is mistreatment of animals, so what meat i do eat tends to come from an organic butcher or direct from source. I've served my time in a meat factory too so I do know which places aren't as fussy about age/breed etc when it comes to beef.

I too try to source all my meat as ethically as the market allows me to. Where possible I even keep my own animals - or hunt them. We periodically have rabbit that I have managed to catch from the wild for example. Usually get them - keep them happily fed and entertained for a few weeks - and then have at them. And Christmas was based around Goose I had housed and cared for myself.

I certainly show no signs of ever _not_ eating meat - but there are certainly things people en masse could do.

Shenshen

MarchFreeze wrote: »

Water can be fatal if too much is consumed.

Edit: Someone got there before me.

Water can be fatal if 6 litres or more are consumed within 3 hours (roughly).
Liver can be harmful if more than 50g are eaten a week....

In other words, to harm yourself drinking water, you'll have to make quite an effort. Liver, easy.

Shenshen

MarchFreeze wrote: »

A piece of liver once a week is perfectly healthy and highly nutritous, what evidence do you have to back up your assertion?

The Food Standard Agency : https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jan/16/medicineandhealth.food

Shenshen

MarchFreeze wrote: »

I appreciate the back up but I tend to treat nutrition advice from government agencies with a healthy dose of salt. (Pun intended)

Your choice!
I do the same with nutrition advise from random bloggers.

ScumLord

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Forget about giving up meat completely. How about halving what you eat? We eat way too much of it. Most of it processed, which contributes greatly to colo-rectal and bowel cancers. Why not?

I wonder which is worse for the environment, keeping a cow alive for a few years then eating it, or having to have exotic food imported from across the planet (often from countries that have little to no environmental protection laws) so that human can live an extra 30 years? I would have thought the human living longer would be much worse.

-=al=- wrote: »

When it comes to eating meat it's usually salmon and chicken + the odd sneaky rasher or sausage once in a while. Grilled salmon can be just as good as bacon and veggie sausages can be just as nice as the real thing. Quorn bacon isn't really the same but it does the job.

These two meats in particular have some pretty serious harm associated with them. Both are farmed in cruel ways, both end up with deformities because of their living conditions, both use a high amount of antibiotics because of the conditions they live in.

Irish beef is as organic as it gets in modern farming.

jameorahiely

No. Living off vegetables &/ soya needs more intensive farming and more land.


What's the carbon footprint of those vegetables that are imported from all corners of the earth? No one who really cares about the planet would give up meat .

Angel Crow

Angel Crow wrote: »

Who said it was? Meat with every meal is desperately unhealthy, and unnecessary. And I'm not a vegetarian.

Where do people get this nonsense, meat with every meal is not unhealthy. Also I'd have fish maybe once every two weeks so I suppose it's not every meal and its usually only meat with breakfast on weekends or during holidays.

Graces7 wrote: »

Also living deep rural does affect how we see critters. Hand raising twin lambs saw to that.

Don't think you will find many agreeing with that. Being from a farm in no way reduces my desire to eat meat.

inforfun

There are about 7 billion people on planet earth who for the most cant stand eachother.
Imagine if they all became vegan....... brrrrr.

There aren't too many farm animals.
We are keeping too many people alive for a too long time.

freshpopcorn

Graces7 wrote: »

Also living deep rural does affect how we see critters. Hand raising twin lambs saw to that.

If you had fields of lambs/sheep and the odd ram that you had to dose/dip and sheer as well as them constantly running into your knees they soon loose their cuteness!

Graces7

Addisyn Tiny Coyote wrote: »

Where do people get this nonsense, meat with every meal is not unhealthy. Also I'd have fish maybe once every two weeks so I suppose it's not every meal and its usually only meat with breakfast on weekends or during holidays.



Don't think you will find many agreeing with that. Being from a farm in no way reduces my desire to eat meat.

I am not "from a farm." I live among sheep and cattle with no vested interest and no thought of eating them. So I enjoy them.

The happiest years of my life were on a small island where I had a pet goat for milk and cheese, and kept her in milk all those years without putting her in kid. Hens, ducks, geese for eggs , free range, and Jacob's sheep for their wool to spin and knit. I grew my own vegetables.

I raised more hens as I needed them; exchanged with others to change the genetics.

oh someone mentioned exotic imported food as if not eating meat meant that that was needed. It is not. I eat simply enough.

Graces7

freshpopcorn wrote: »

If you had fields of lambs/sheep and the odd ram that you had to dose/dip and sheer as well as them constantly running into your knees they soon loose their cuteness!

I had to shear my own lambs. And I would not farm, period. I have no ambitions in that direction. Cuteness? No thank you. My two were orphans.

But i certainly would not eat them !

ScumLord

inforfun wrote: »

There aren't too many farm animals.
We are keeping too many people alive for a too long time.

Indeed, eating hamburgers and dying middle aged is probably good for the environment.

freshpopcorn

Graces7 wrote: »

I had to shear my own lambs. And I would not farm, period. I have no ambitions in that direction. Cuteness? No thank you. My two were orphans.

But i certainly would not eat them !

I just know people who had a pet lamb or two and they were lovely and the best pets ever and they'd never eat lamb again. It's just when they saw the real reality of them on a farm every day. They soon changed their tune!

Lady Haywire

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I just know people who had a pet lamb or two and they were lovely and the best pets ever and they'd never eat lamb again. It's just when they saw the real reality of them on a farm every day. They soon changed their tune!

Ah but pet lambs are different to the others as you have a vested interest in keeping them alive. Kinda like eating a pet after you've brought them along so far into life....or that's how I feel anyway! Hence i never eat the stock bred here but I'd have no qualms about buying one in the mart for the butcher to do up for me.
Had a premature calf born about 6 weeks early on the 20th Jan so for the last fortnight I was busy keeping him alive, feeding him every few hours for the first while. So I'd never, ever dream of eating him but thankfully he's a pb fella so should go on to breed his own.

Sirsok

I dont eat meat, I dont mind those that do it meat, infact I recieve alot of stick from meat eaters as oppose me giving them abuse.

Its a personal choice brought on by watching news about the Dog Meat Festival thats held every year. I thought that was absolutely horrific, until a muslim man stated that is the way he views pork consumption, its just that a dog is domesticated. I started feeling terribly bad everytime i ate meat after that, just my concious cpuldnt handle eating a carcass even though I loved the taste of meat.

I occasionally get cravings , especially when in a resturant and everyone gets rhese amazing steak and burger dishes and im getting fevking pasta!

freshpopcorn

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ah but pet lambs are different to the others as you have a vested interest in keeping them alive. Kinda like eating a pet after you've brought them along so far into life....or that's how I feel anyway! Hence i never eat the stock bred here but I'd have no qualms about buying one in the mart for the butcher to do up for me.
Had a premature calf born about 6 weeks early on the 20th Jan so for the last fortnight I was busy keeping him alive, feeding him every few hours for the first while. So I'd never, ever dream of eating him but thankfully he's a pb fella so should go on to breed his own.

Ever year we ended up with a lamb or a few who ends up being a bit of a pet due to issues with it's mother but if we kept every pet lamb we'd have a field of them by now. We've one pet lamb from a few years ago but the others had to go the mart after a time.

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I just know people who had a pet lamb or two and they were lovely and the best pets ever and they'd never eat lamb again.

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ah but pet lambs are different to the others as you have a vested interest in keeping them alive. Kinda like eating a pet after you've brought them along so far into life....or that's how I feel anyway!

We on occasion keep and kill our own hogget. Which means we get a better more flavoursome meat and hopefully the animal got to live a bit longer - and happier - than it would have as farmed lamb.

Something between pet and farm animal - it has not bothered us or the children to have at them on the dinner plate.

Tayschren

I've cut down on the meat lately, keeping away from red meat but still having some chicken or fish 3 times a week.

Dont feel any better for it health wise

ScumLord

Sirsok wrote: »

Its a personal choice brought on by watching news about the Dog Meat Festival thats held every year. I thought that was absolutely horrific, until a muslim man stated that is the way he views pork consumption, its just that a dog is domesticated. I started feeling terribly bad everytime i ate meat after that,

It's a bit of a disingenuous way for the Muslim to put it. It's not like they keep pigs as pets, many wouldn't even want to touch a pig. Unless he has no regard for dogs too then it's not as if he's saying pigs are lovely. According to some things I've read they would be required to kill the pig just because it's an unclean pig so it's pointless having them as pets.

eviltwin

Sirsok wrote: »

I dont eat meat, I dont mind those that do it meat, infact I recieve alot of stick from meat eaters as oppose me giving them abuse

Ditto. I couldn't care less how anyone chooses to eat but I will let people know if I don't eat meat or dairy. Somehow informing people of that becomes judging them or being holier than thou about it.

Not everyone is veggie or vegan for environmental or animal cruelty reasons either. Personally I do it for vanity reasons, its helped me lose weight and cleared up my problem skin. It doesn't always hold true that a vegan is a tree hugger

Angel Crow

I don't get the argument that we need meat or are designed to eat it. I know people that have been vegetarians for 10 and 20 years and are perfectly functioning intelligent adults. It's such a lazy attitude that because our ancient ancestors relied on meat for survival that we simply must eat it. It's not relevant to a society with a food surplus.

Graces7

eviltwin wrote: »

Ditto. I couldn't care less how anyone chooses to eat but I will let people know if I don't eat meat or dairy. Somehow informing people of that becomes judging them or being holier than thou about it.

Not everyone is veggie or vegan for environmental or animal cruelty reasons either. Personally I do it for vanity reasons, its helped me lose weight and cleared up my problem skin. It doesn't always hold true that a vegan is a tree hugger

For this sweet reason, thank you

With me it was as much cost as anything else. Meat is very costly for a pensioner and before that I was on disability.

Then when I had my own milk and eggs and made cheese?

I need dairy so that is fine for me and I am happier eating lighter. ( excuse me though while I go out and hug the trees goodnight!)

osarusan

Angel Crow wrote: »

It's not relevant to a society with a food surplus.

More to the point, I think it's not relevant to a society that knows how to replace/supplement the benefits of eating meat.

Angel Crow

osarusan wrote: »

More to the point, I think it's not relevant to a society that knows how to replace/supplement the benefits of eating meat.

I'm pretty sure our ancestors didn't have entire factories dedicated to making chicken tenders for Mcdonald's also.

ScumLord

Angel Crow wrote: »

I don't get the argument that we need meat or are designed to eat it. I know people that have been vegetarians for 10 and 20 years and are perfectly functioning intelligent adults. It's such a lazy attitude that because our ancient ancestors relied on meat for survival that we simply must eat it. It's not relevant to a society with a food surplus.

No animal is "designed" to do anything. The human is a bit of an oddball animal. We went from tree swinging apes that mostly eat a vegetarian diet (it's possible we eat meat the same way chimps eat meat) then climate change forced us to to evolve for life on the plains. The bottom line is that it would have been hard for us to find enough calories on a grass plain, all the food sources we would have relied on disappeared. So it's likely we started scavenging other animals kills. This caused us to change, we had an abundance of calories that all went towards our brain. Our gut got smaller because it wasn't doing as much work, meat changed us just like farming changed us (likely the reason white people came along and we developed tolerances for grains and things like milk). We adapted to be able to eat meat.

We are an animal that evolved for a high calorie meat supplemented diet. All we really did was add apps to our gut to enable us to eat a wider range of food. We don't have to eat meat, it's just in many places people had no choice. For a human moving around the planet meat is a reliable food source. When we move into a new environment we don't know what's food, or what's poison, animals are nearly always edible and one animal can easily replace another.

I don't think we can just stop eating meat and expect everything to be hunky dory, I also don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat.

Elemonator

Ohhhhhhhhh controversial!

Its vital that the population gradually decreases and also that we all eat less meat and waste less energy and resources. We surely can't use technology forever to escape from resource constraints.

Have kids? Do it to feel responsible. Don't or can't have kids? Screw it.

Shenshen

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think we can just stop eating meat and expect everything to be hunky dory, I also don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat.

Why not?
I haven't eaten meat in about a decade now, my husband hasn't touched any in nearly 30 years. And yet, both of us are healthy, functioning adults, as are millions of others across the globe.

I'm not saying people should stop eating meat, as I keep saying it's a personal choice. But it is a choice nevertheless.
It's perfectly ok to say you don't want to stop eating meat, but I'm getting a little fed up with the "nature makes me do it" argument.

Galway_Old_Man

I had a savage burger at lunch. Bioche bun ( :pac: ), pork belly, chorizo, bacon, lettuce and a coleslaw/chipotle sauce mix. Savage. had some chicken nuggets with it. I'm done with meat for today.

ScumLord

Shenshen wrote: »

Why not?
I haven't eaten meat in about a decade now, my husband hasn't touched any in nearly 30 years. And yet, both of us are healthy, functioning adults, as are millions of others across the globe.

I don't think we as a species can stop eating meat and expect everything to be hunky dory. We thought eliminating wolves would be a good idea but it caused the collapse of ecosystems. Humans are a force of nature at this stage, everything we do has far reaching ramifications that we're not smart enough to predict.

Shenshen

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think we as a species can stop eating meat and expect everything to be hunky dory. We thought eliminating wolves would be a good idea but it caused the collapse of ecosystems. Humans are a force of nature at this stage, everything we do has far reaching ramifications that we're not smart enough to predict.

The bolded bit is certainly true.

Apologies if I misunderstood, I read "we" as each one of us individually, not "we" the species.

I'm not a fan of those hypothetical scenarios where everyone just stops eating meat from one minute to the next - of course that would have massive consequences, and of course we have no way of knowing if we'd be able to provide enough nuts, pulses and other protein to feed 6 billion. My guess is we don't. But then it's pointless speculation, as it's about as likely as Donald Trump coming out of the closet tomorrow.

There's nothing in our biology forcing us to eat meat, but we probably won't be any less healthy for eating it. Biology basically has no opinion either way.
Ecologically, a gradual reduction in meat consumption might well be a positive, considering the current increase in human population and the increase in wealth globally. Even to hold meat production steady, we'd have to reduce individual consumption.

Btw, wolves are making a bit of a comeback in central Europe - ever since the fall of the iron curtain.

ScumLord

Shenshen wrote: »

There's nothing in our biology forcing us to eat meat, but we probably won't be any less healthy for eating it. Biology basically has no opinion either way.

Meat is a good food, it's easy and you get a load of calories in a small package.. As an animal we're always going to have a preference for the easy option.

Ecologically, a gradual reduction in meat consumption might well be a positive, considering the current increase in human population and the increase in wealth globally. Even to hold meat production steady, we'd have to reduce individual consumption.

If synthetic meat takes off we'll likely switch to it taking the pressure off most domestic animals. I don't think we'd stop producing animal meat but it would become the quality alternative. Farms could be much smaller with better welfare.

Btw, wolves are making a bit of a comeback in central Europe - ever since the fall of the iron curtain.

Chernobyl has turned out to be great for all the other animals in the area. When the humans moved out everything else moved back in. Humans, worse than nuclear fall out.

Angel Crow

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think we can just stop eating meat and expect everything to be hunky dory, I also don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat.

Meat production will never be stopped so I wouldn't worry about that. Although there's no comparison with the manner in which we consumed meat in the distant past to how we have done it in the last 100 years.

The second part is a very vague statement. Nobody really disagrees with the philosophy of eating meat. Who would begrudge impoverished people hunting or relying on meat tor survive?

The issue is whether we need to produce meat at the grotesquely industrial scale that we do for tasty treats. The eco system won't collapse if McDonald's or KFC went out of business.

Austria!

jameorahiely wrote: »

No. Living off vegetables &/ soya needs more intensive farming and more land.

This is completely 100% wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_flow_(ecology)

And besides, loads of soya is just grown for animals to eat anyway.

ScumLord

Angel Crow wrote: »

The second part is a very vague statement. Nobody really disagrees with the philosophy of eating meat. Who would begrudge impoverished people hunting or relying on meat tor survive?

PETA probably would.

The issue is whether we need to produce meat at the grotesquely industrial scale that we do for tasty treats. The eco system won't collapse if McDonald's or KFC went out of business.

The problem is intensive farming to produce cheap meat is our fault as the consumer, we're at least as culpable as the producers. We keep showing a preference for cheaper and cheaper products to the producers fulfil that demand. Markets demand they o that or go out of business. We have to take some responsibility for how we spend our money, I think how we spend our money is as important if not more important than voting in a capitalist society.

MilesMorales1

I wouldn't give it up. It's selfish, but I love meat. Once they create synthetic meat with the same taste and texture though, I'll be all over it.

DEFTLEFTHAND

When I look at a lamb, I want to eat it. When a polar bear looks at me, he has the same feelings.

Angel Crow

ScumLord wrote: »

PETA probably would.

The problem is intensive farming to produce cheap meat is our fault as the consumer, we're at least as culpable as the producers. We keep showing a preference for cheaper and cheaper products to the producers fulfil that demand. Markets demand they o that or go out of business. We have to take some responsibility for how we spend our money, I think how we spend our money is as important if not more important than voting in a capitalist society.

Well that's exactly my point. That's why it's unjustifiable to consume meat the level that we that we do. I've no problem with anyone hunting for food, but I wonder how many people would actually have the stomach to kill an animal themselves. Much less traumatic to pay someone else to do your dirty work.

wes

Not until they get that lab grown meat perfected, and cheaper than the real thing.

ScumLord

Angel Crow wrote: »

Well that's exactly my point. That's why it's unjustifiable to consume meat the level that we that we do. I've no problem with anyone hunting for food, but I wonder how many people would actually have the stomach to kill an animal themselves. Much less traumatic to pay someone else to do your dirty work.

I think if we had to kill our own meat we likely would, humans have been killing animals for food for a long time. Modern people don't see that side of things anymore, we get to live the comfortable life and everything is dropped in front of us. But that's the nature of human society, we specialise in tasks and share the workload.

If all the meat eaters started hunting it would probably be a disaster, our domestic animals take us out of that cycle which is probably a good thing for all the other animals because we were far to good at hunting, even going back to stone age times the human drove other animals to extinction.

I think domestication is a good deal for both animals, once intensive farming is ruled out. The prey animal gets to live a comfortable life protected by nature's most dangerous animal, we spread their genes throughout the planet which is all that genes really care about, and we get a regular food and resource source. Cattle are big dangerous animals, if they weren't happy with the deal they'd be a real handful to deal with, almost making them impossible to handle. But you go to just about any farm in the country and it's clear the cattle see the farmer as a provider, they run up to him and there's a certain level of trust apparent. That trust doesn't extend to every human though.

I think we humans have soured the deal, we're taking advantage with intensive farming. We need to redress the balance.

wes

The animals were bred to be docile, and to act that way over many gernerations.