National Hurling League 2017 Discussion

letowski

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Allianz Hurling League permutations

http://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/allianz-hurling-league-permutations/

Looking forward to this weekend, some very good games on with loads to play for. I think its weekends like this, should keep the GAA from not making any changes. Interest level will be high, should have good attendances, it really want the fans want.

Kerrydude1981

letowski wrote: »

Looking forward to this weekend, some very good games on with loads to play for. I think its weekends like this, should keep the GAA from not making any changes. Interest level will be high, should have good attendances, it really want the fans want.

Ya thats a very good point,looking forward to our game this weekend against Offaly,should be a good game,we did well against Galway in the first half but then faded away in the second half,if we can re produce the first half performance of the Galway game for a full game Sunday we should win, but Offaly are improving with each game so it wont be easy.

Be great to avoid the relegation play off and stay another year in Division 1B.

Tombo2001

So if I understand right, if Dublin beat Kilkenny, then Kilkenny will be bottom of the group.

However they then go into a relegation play-off, probably with Dublin?

letowski

Tombo2001 wrote: »

So if I understand right, if Dublin beat Kilkenny, then Kilkenny will be bottom of the group.

However they then go into a relegation play-off, probably with Dublin?

They can still make the QF, as it goes head to head. In this case, Cork would have to lose. Then Cork and Dublin would be level on 4pts, with Dublin avoiding the relegation playoff as they have the advantage in the h2h.

The head to head's are a bit of a mess as everybody bar Tipp have been winning and losing every other weekend, there has been no form guide to this league.

dastardly00

letowski wrote: »

They can still make the QF, as it goes head to head. In this case, Cork would have to lose. Then Cork and Dublin would be level on 4pts, with Dublin avoiding the relegation playoff as they have the advantage in the h2h.

The head to head's are a bit of a mess as everybody bar Tipp have been winning and losing every other weekend, there has been no form guide to this league.

For that scenario to happen, Waterford and Clare would have to draw and both finish on 5 points. Otherwise it'll come down to +/- points difference if three teams finish on 4 points (Dublin, Cork, and the loser of Waterford/Clare).

If KK win, they will definitely make the QFs provided the Clare and Waterford match doesn't finish in a draw.

enoughtaken

Tombo2001 wrote: »

So if I understand right, if Dublin beat Kilkenny, then Kilkenny will be bottom of the group.

However they then go into a relegation play-off, probably with Dublin?

Copied from another site

[font=proxima-nova, sans-serif]Tipperary are already assured of top-spot in Division 1A and a quarter-final berth regardless of how their match against Cork on Sunday goes, but the other three Division 1A Quarter-Final places are still up for grabs.[/font]
[font=proxima-nova, sans-serif]Clare, Cork, and Waterford currently complete the top four. They all have four points each, and are separated by scoring difference. Clare’s scoring difference is +1, Cork’s is 0, and Waterford’s is -8.[/font]
[font=proxima-nova, sans-serif]That means Sunday’s game between Clare and Waterford is a straight shoot-out with the winner guaranteed a quarter-final berth. A draw might also be enough for both teams depending on how other results go.[/font]
[font=proxima-nova, sans-serif]Cork are at home to Tipperary and will qualify for the quarter-finals with a win.[/font]
[font=proxima-nova, sans-serif]They’ll hope the fact that the Premier County are already guaranteed top-spot will mean they will field a more experimental than usual selection.[/font]
[font=proxima-nova, sans-serif]But with both counties also due to play another in the Munster Quarter-Final, it’s unlikely Tipperary will want to hand any psychological advantage to their rivals.[/font]
[font=proxima-nova, sans-serif]Sunday’s remaining Division 1A match is another crunch-encounter as Kilkenny on three points travel to play a Dublin team on two points.[/font]
[font=proxima-nova, sans-serif]Even though both teams currently occupy the relegation play-off spots, a win for either could be enough to secure a quarter-final berth depending on how other results go, though Dublin’s scoring difference of -15 puts them at a disadvantage.[/font]
[font=proxima-nova, sans-serif]The bottom two teams in Division 1A after Sunday’s matches will go head to head in a relegation play-off to determine which team drops down to Division 1b[/font]

washman3

So the top 4 in 1A play the top 4 in 1B.?
For example, Tipp as top of 1A will play the fourth team in 1B.
Is this correct.?
Many would have thought that the top 2 in 1A were straight to a semi, with 3rd and 4th playing 1st and 2nd from 1B, also with 1A top 2 kept apart if both make the semi's.

Any further word on the 8 team league next year.?

Kerrydude1981

washman3 wrote: »

So the top 4 in 1A play the top 4 in 1B.?
For example, Tipp as top of 1A will play the fourth team in 1B.
Is this correct.?
Many would have thought that the top 2 in 1A were straight to a semi, with 3rd and 4th playing 1st and 2nd from 1B, also with 1A top 2 kept apart if both make the semi's.

Any further word on the 8 team league next year.?

Ger Loughane was the only fella I heard talking about that one night on Seo Spoirt

Bonniedog

letowski wrote: »

Looking forward to this weekend, some very good games on with loads to play for. I think its weekends like this, should keep the GAA from not making any changes. Interest level will be high, should have good attendances, it really want the fans want.

There will be big crowds at all the 1A and B games other than Limerick/Galway.

Full houses or close to in Uí Rinn, Ennis and Parnell. Also Wexford and Tralee should have good turn outs.

As you say, it is proof that current structures are working. A lot to play for and people are interested. don't fix what is not broken!

As for our own game, Dublin can give anyone a game in Parnell but with Cats needing to win they will be up against it. Should be good buckle all the same!

brookville

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Ger Loughane was the only fella I heard talking about that one night on Seo Spoirt

Jackie tyrell and Derek mcgrath have both hinted at a change to the league structure next year

dastardly00

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Ger Loughane was the only fella I heard talking about that one night on Seo Spoirt

Ciarán Murphy is discussing it in The Irish Times today

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/ciar%C3%A1n-murphy-stakes-still-high-for-galway-and-limerick-1.3020685?mode=amp

dastardly00

washman3 wrote: »

So the top 4 in 1A play the top 4 in 1B.?
For example, Tipp as top of 1A will play the fourth team in 1B.
Is this correct.?
Many would have thought that the top 2 in 1A were straight to a semi, with 3rd and 4th playing 1st and 2nd from 1B, also with 1A top 2 kept apart if both make the semi's.

Top 4 in 1A against the top 4 in 1B has been the format for the quarter-finals since the 2014 league.

Bonniedog

dastardly00 wrote: »

Ciarán Murphy is discussing it in The Irish Times today

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/ciar%C3%A1n-murphy-stakes-still-high-for-galway-and-limerick-1.3020685?mode=amp

Can't get that.

What is argument? I assume it is something on the lines of "oh isn't it terrible that Limerick and Galway are in the second division."

Well, for them maybe! for Wexford, not so much

Reality is that there is only a marginal difference between the two tiers. And if you are relegated and can't at least make the quarter finals then it is clearly a deficiency on your part, not Croke Park's.

I hope they leave it as it is, but of course there are always "traditionalists" who would rather keep changing things in hope they suit them. Which is quite the opposite of what traditionalism means

OldMrBrennan83

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Bonniedog

Patww79 wrote: »

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It originated as way of assuaging the hurt feelings of certain counties, ahem, but I think it has worked out well. Other than the two bottom teams in 1B there is rarely that huge a difference between the 1A six and the top four in 1B.

I also like the idea that a team such as Kerry can progress through that structure and maybe get a quarter final game. Instead of whinging, Wexford eventually got their act together and will be back in 1A and with a fair crack at least reaching the semi finals.

dastardly00

Patww79 wrote: »

Yeah 1B teams getting the same standing in the quarters as the 1A teams is a joke.

Why do you think that?

OldMrBrennan83

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dastardly00

Patww79 wrote: »

Because 1B is considerably weaker and there's no walkovers in A. Should be 4 from A and 2 from B. Two quarters and the top two in A straight to semi.

But the more games the better... The top two from 1A would prefer to have a quarter final match to play rather than a week off.

Whoever finishes second in 1A is going to have a pretty competitive match against either Galway/Limerick.

adrian522

dastardly00 wrote: »

If KK win, they will definitely make the QFs provided the Clare and Waterford match doesn't finish in a draw.

If Kilkenny win they will be in the top 4 no matter what happens elsewhere.

They will have more points than Dublin and whoever loses in Clare. If Waterford and Clare draw then Kilkenny will be above Waterford on points difference.

Realt Dearg Sec

Does it not go on head to head first?

dastardly00

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Does it not go on head to head first?

Not in that scenario because KK, Waterford, and Clare will all be on 5 points (it's only head-to-head if two teams are on the same points. It's +/- points difference if there are three or more teams).

PTH2009

Qfs
Tipp vs Offaly (thurles)
Cork vs Limerick (coin toss for home advantage)
Waterford vs Galway (coin toss for home advantage)
Kilkenny vs Wexford (Nowlan Park)

1A relegation
Clare vs Dublin (Ennis)

dastardly00

PTH2009 wrote: »

Qfs
Tipp vs Offaly (thurles)
Cork vs Limerick (coin toss for home advantage)
Waterford vs Galway (coin toss for home advantage)
Kilkenny vs Wexford (Nowlan Park)

1A relegation
Clare vs Dublin (Ennis)

Should be all decent matches apart from Tipp-Offaly.

OldMrBrennan83

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Bonniedog

not that it matters much, but I thought relegation play offs were neutral venue. Dublin did well enough against Kilkenny being a man down for most of it.

What the name of jaysus possessed Maguire I do not know. Went from being three points up to getting goalkeeper sent off and conceding a goal!

wouldn't have mattered anyway as other results meant play off no matter what, but seriously stupid fkn thing to do.

Hammer Archer

Patww79 wrote: »

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Were you at it? What type of team did ye have out? Can't see many first teamers having togged out for either side. I heard (not sure if it's true) that the Meath management were calling club players not involved in the county team to tog out just for this game.

Rasputin11

That Keenan fella who reffed the Clare Waterford game is atrocious.

OldMrBrennan83

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Hammer Archer

Patww79 wrote: »

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Presume you don't have the Meath team to hand? Can't seem to find it anywhere.

OldMrBrennan83

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Kristopherus

Rasputin11 wrote: »

That Keenan fella who reffed the Clare Waterford game is atrocious.

Yep, turned blatant fouls on fellas that were tackled in possession into overcarrying frees the other way. Should'nt be let near Div 1:mad:.

OldMrBrennan83

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feargale

Patww79 wrote: »

Where was he from?

Wicklow

Bonniedog

feargale wrote: »

Wicklow

they'd probably gotten away with having spears

OldMrBrennan83

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Kerrydude1981

Hugely disappointing to be in the relegation play off but it is what it is,Offaly made the most of the conditions yesterday they were very direct in the first half with a strong breeze to their backs,the sending off just before half time was a big blow to us and that probably threw whatever plans we had set for the second half out the window

We go again next week,hope we stay up

Django99

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Hugely disappointing to be in the relegation play off but it is what it is,Offaly made the most of the conditions yesterday they were very direct in the first half with a strong breeze to their backs,the sending off just before half time was a big blow to us and that probably threw whatever plans we had set for the second half out the window

We go again next week,hope we stay up

Should be a cracking game, Laois will be very disappointed to be in the play off having beaten Offaly and running Wexford so close.

Des Cahill says there's a play off with the winner of 2A, and I would say both Kerry and Laois would be a bit ahead of Antrim and Carlow so both should stay up. It should really be straight relegation for the loser though.

I'd even give the 2A runner up a play off against the winner of the relegation final, to give more teams the chance to play in Division 1.

Kerrydude1981

Django99 wrote: »

Should be a cracking game, Laois will be very disappointed to be in the play off having beaten Offaly and running Wexford so close.

Des Cahill says there's a play off with the winner of 2A, and I would say both Kerry and Laois would be a bit ahead of Antrim and Carlow so both should stay up. It should really be straight relegation for the loser though.

I'd even give the 2A runner up a play off against the winner of the relegation final, to give more teams the chance to play in Division 1.

That play off with the winners of 2A was ditched and rightly so,

"Another change to the Allianz Hurling League structure is the removal of the promotion/relegation play-offs. Instead there will be automatic promotion for the division winners."

http://www.gaa.ie/news/allianz-leagues-condensed-2017/

Django99

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

That play off with the winners of 2A was ditched and rightly so,

"Another change to the Allianz Hurling League structure is the removal of the promotion/relegation play-offs. Instead there will be automatic promotion for the division winners."

http://www.gaa.ie/news/allianz-leagues-condensed-2017/

That's great news. I thought on Sunday sport that Des said the loser will get another chance

Edit: sorry it was Michael Lyster!

KevIRL

All games to be settled this weekend. No replays. Be interesting to see a shootout

Realt Dearg Sec

So what are the actual rules of the free taking competition?

KevIRL

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

So what are the actual rules of the free taking competition?

Open to correction here but think it's 5 frees each taken anywhere from the 65 line.

KevIRL

No change to league structure for 2018

Bonniedog

KevIRL wrote: »

No change to league structure for 2018

Glad to hear that even if it means Dublin will quite likely be relegated. Two 8 team divisions with 3/4 weak teams thrown in against a couple of the top teams would have been disaster. Imagine, no harm to them, Kildare playing Galway or Limerick?

PTH2009

Have a feeling Wexford will shock Kilkenny

Think Galway will get that rare win over Waterford. Cork and Tipperary too win

The relegation playoff between Clare and Dublin is hard too call but I think Clare will scrape the win

OldMrBrennan83

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Kerrydude1981

Patww79 wrote: »

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Early fools day joke id say

OldMrBrennan83

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Stevecw

KevIRL wrote: »

No change to league structure for 2018

Great news for teams iike Carlow & Antrim who play in 2A final on Saturday. At least now that final means something. Winner gets to play with Galway, Limerick, (Dublin/Clare), Offaly & Laois or Kerry in 1B next year. If it had went to 8, then that final would be pointless.

Django99

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0329/863505-hurling-championship-format-under-discussion/

Hurling looking to change the structure but no specific format suggested yet. As the article says the important thing is to increase meaningful, competitive games. A super 6 probably isn't the answer, as it would make provincial finals meaningless to have both teams advance to the same stage.

Giving teams too many chances to lose would make early rounds meaningless. Not sure I could think of any good formats at the moment that would be an improvement to be honest