Anyone else becoming terrified of Liberals.

AnGaelach

listermint wrote: »

Just to put the brakes on this here .


Who uses the term white privilege in an Irish context and please don't say Facebook.

Because I've never ever ever heard anyone say those words in this country.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/white-privilege-is-real-and-it-exists-in-ireland-1.2835557

I guess the Irish Times doesn't count now either? Will you be asking for a peer-reviewed journal?

listermint

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Here's an example from Trinity's 'Privilege Walk' last year, 1:32 'If you are a white male, step forward'

There's always a first.bit by Christ it's trinity and the insufferable girl from tallaght .

Wrapping themselves up in a global context when it means little in an Irish context

Hank Scorpio

listermint wrote: »

Just to put the brakes on this here .

There was an AH thread about this article here a few months back that caused some slight uproar

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/white-privilege-is-real-and-it-exists-in-ireland-1.2835557

Edit: Beaten by the above poster.

Anyway here's the thread : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057662194

listermint

AnGaelach wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/white-privilege-is-real-and-it-exists-in-ireland-1.2835557

I guess the Irish Times doesn't count now either? Will you be asking for a peer-reviewed journal?

Has anyone actually heard a person on the street or in work say these words or are we going to reference click articles and students union morons from trinity.


As if either is indicative of real life

MightyMandarin

listermint wrote: »

There's always a first.bit by Christ it's trinity and the insufferable girl from tallaght .

Wrapping themselves up in a global context when it means little in an Irish context

That event was a load of bollocks, and I know well if I took part there'd be doctor's and solicitor's daughters, who went to private schools and have daddy's credit card in their handbags, standing behind me just because I'm a lad.

AnGaelach

listermint wrote: »

Has anyone actually heard a person on the street or in work say these words

Hang on, did you not complain about me using social media the other day? Should I get a dictaphone and record conversations in public for you?

Widdershins

listermint wrote: »

Has anyone actually heard a person on the street or in work say these words or are we going to reference click articles and students union morons from trinity.


As if either is indicative of real life

I have. Friends of mine use it. My hairdresser even used it in conversation. I wouldn't underestimate the influence of social media, which is where they absorb it from, imo. I discovered one of my friends is a blogger and describes herself as a feminist writer. She seems to cover this kind of topic on a regular basis.

listermint

Widdershins wrote: »

I have. Friends of mine use it. My hairdresser even used it in conversation. I wouldn't underestimate the influence of social media, which is where they absorb it from, imo. I discovered one of my friends is a blogger and describes herself as a feminist writer. She seems to cover this kind of topic on a regular basis.

Exactly.

It has no bearing in Ireland . No bearing at all.

I'm white and make and grew up in West Dublin from what many of these so called bloggers would call deprived.

And I privileged because of my skin or because my parents worked their arse off and I do too.

Enough of this pony talk because that's all it is .And did you call this hairdresser on it or sit back and go sure yeah your right white privilege yeah them white men in Ireland have it all...

Professor Moriarty

AnGaelach wrote: »

Trump was laying the groundwork for launching his own media/"news" station. I, personally, find it unlikely he'd actually try to dispute the outcome of the election.

So it's appropriate for a candidate, ultimately POTUS, to subvert democracy during his campaign in order to launch his own TV station? These are strange laissez faire times.

MightyMandarin

listermint wrote: »

Has anyone actually heard a person on the street or in work say these words or are we going to reference click articles and students union morons from trinity.


As if either is indicative of real life

The video is on TCD's youtube channel, it's not just the SU. This event was supported by the college, not just the SU.

And yes, I've been told by a few idiots I'm classmates with that we have it easier than the 2 or 3 black students in our class (out of 160 or so), just because we're white.

The ironic thing about these injustices students fight over is that they mean **** all in comparison to actual inequality, which is the wealthy few owning vast swathes more than the general population, and yet I'm meant to feel 'privileged' because I'm a man and I'm white, which is irrelevant imo.

AnGaelach

listermint wrote: »

I'm white and make and grew up in West Dublin from what many of these so called bloggers would call deprived.

And I privileged because of my skin or because my parents worked their arse off and I do too.

Enough of this pony talk because that's all it is .And did you call this hairdresser on it or sit back and go sure yeah your right white privilege yeah them white men in Ireland have it all...

Are you missing the entire point of the discussion? I, and I presume the others, are not saying white people are privileged here, what we're saying is that other people are increasingly saying so.

listermint

AnGaelach wrote: »

Are you missing the entire point of the discussion? I, and I presume the others, are not saying white people are privileged here, what we're saying is that other people are increasingly saying so.

And my point is other people are not.

It's click bait reporters and looper's in SUs who have been coming out with loaded stuff for decades. Nothing new there.

Anyway this is waaay off topic.

AnGaelach

listermint wrote: »

And my point is other people are not.

You've been given evidence of them doing it, but you're waving it away as imaginary!

KingBrian2

Many liberals advocated for wars and international chaos. Christopher Hitchens, Tony Blair, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton the list is full of prominent politicians, academics and journalists calling for so called liberal polices be spread across the world.

listermint

AnGaelach wrote: »

You've been given evidence of them doing it, but you're waving it away as imaginary!

No I haven't you lads claim people are talking about this.they aren't it's a little echo chamber of idiots who have been echo chambering about similar ****e for decades.

Nothing new man splanning there will be another new topic next month.

Just because you saw it on Facebook doesn't mean it has any gravitas in daily life.

So I disagree entirely with your assertion that people in Ireland think white male privilege is a thing.

Echo

Chamber

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Many liberals advocated for wars and international chaos. Christopher Hitchens, Tony Blair, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton the list is full of prominent politicians, academics and journalists calling for so called liberal polices be spread across the world.

And your point is?...

Many conservatives have done likewise, doesn't mean conservatism is terrible.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Hank Scorpio

listermint wrote: »

Echo

Chamber

You asked for something that wasn't social media and were provided with an article from the Irish times with the strong view point that white privilege exists in Ireland, and others gave examples of real life scenarios where they heard those words.

listermint

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You asked for something that wasn't social media and were provided with an article from the Irish times with the strong view point that while privilege exists in Ireland, and others gave examples of real life scenarios where they heard those words.

I asked .I was given an article by a blogger and an SU.

I've already addressed both points and the other poster also said their friend was a blogger.

Il stick to my chamber assertion thank you.

oscarBravo

AnGaelach wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yes, because straight white males are the only people doing these things. I guess the women are too busy wanting to be dominated.

Do you really just love buzzwords so much you can't help but throw them in when they're not at all relevant to the discussion?

Maybe you should re-read the post I quoted, and then re-read my post. I bet if you tried really really hard you could figure out why I said what I did.

I bet you'd still pretend not to understand, but then, you can take a horse to water...

Permabear wrote: »

Look at the modern US college campus: women in the Women's Center, gays and lesbians in the LGBT Center, African-Americans in the African American Student Center, and so on.

What's a black lesbian to do? She is clearly pitted against herself.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

And your point is?...

Many conservatives have done likewise, doesn't mean conservatism is terrible.

The point is that liberalism were front and centre leading the charge to war. In particular unnecessary wars and liberals provided much of the ideological groundwork for the war. The notion that the US had an important role of militarily going into conflict zones like during the 90's in Bosnia and Darfur. I would not agree with this license to be the sheriff of the globe. This was pushed by the liberals in the 20th and 21st century.

AnGaelach

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The point is that liberalism were front and centre leading the charge to war. In particular unnecessary wars and liberals provided much of the ideological groundwork for the war. The notion that the US had an important role of militarily going into conflict zones like during the 90's in Bosnia and Darfur. I would not agree with this license to be the sheriff of the globe. This was pushed by the liberals in the 20th and 21st century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupations_by_the_Soviet_Union

God damn Commie liberals.

red ears

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Most democratic? The person with the fewest votes was elected POTUS. Three million fewer in fact. Another (I was going to say alternative but, you know...) fact is that he got just 26% of the eligible vote.

That really doesn't matter, Donald played the game as it was designed. He target certain states to help him get the most electoral college votes because that's what was required to win. If popular vote was what mattered he would have used a different strategy. He could have targeted New York, California etc. But he didn't need to.

Brian?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The point is that liberalism were front and centre leading the charge to war. In particular unnecessary wars and liberals provided much of the ideological groundwork for the war. The notion that the US had an important role of militarily going into conflict zones like during the 90's in Bosnia and Darfur. I would not agree with this license to be the sheriff of the globe. This was pushed by the liberals in the 20th and 21st century.

So you're sticking by this war mongering liberal theory? The invasion of Iraq was driven by neocons.

Bill Clinton isn't a liberal. He signed DOMA and gutted banking regulation. What did he actually do that would be considered liberal in a modern context?

Widdershins

listermint wrote: »

Exactly.

It has no bearing in Ireland . No bearing at all.

I'm white and make and grew up in West Dublin from what many of these so called bloggers would call deprived.

And I privileged because of my skin or because my parents worked their arse off and I do too.

Enough of this pony talk because that's all it is .And did you call this hairdresser on it or sit back and go sure yeah your right white privilege yeah them white men in Ireland have it all...

I'm in Ireland. I really do think perfectly average ordinary people think white privilege is a thing and that it's a thing that's relevant to Ireland. I believe it's almost a fad and it's seen as the done thing to be onboard with this.

I did actually disagree with her. I wouldn't say : ''sure yeah your right white privilege yeah them white men in Ireland have it all...'' because I don't think that.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Brian?

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Does that mean I'm invited in?

Ultimately, I think the world would be a better place if we could all debate our political differences in an open and civil way without people assuming that they win automatically because of the color of their skin or who they go to bed with. And yet that's increasingly the situation.

Does anyone actually think they can win a debate by race or sexual orientation? I really don't think they do. If they do then they're idiots and deserve contempt.

AnGaelach

Brian? wrote: »

So you're sticking by this war mongering liberal theory? The invasion of Iraq was driven by neocons.

Bill Clinton isn't a liberal. He signed DOMA and gutted banking regulation. What did he actually do that would be considered liberal in a modern context?

A member of the Democratic Party, ideologically Clinton was a New Democrat, and many of his policies reflected a centrist "Third Way" political philosophy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats

Describing themselves as "centrist", they are an economically liberal and "Third Way" faction which dominated the party for around 20 years

Professor Moriarty

red ears wrote: »

That really doesn't matter, Donald played the game as it was designed. He target certain states to help him get the most electoral college votes because that's what was required to win. If popular vote was what mattered he would have used a different strategy. He could have targeted New York, California etc. But he didn't need to.

Indeed, but that's not really relevant to the point I made which was in response to another post.

Brian?

AnGaelach wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats

So what did he do that was liberal minded? No liberal would have enacted DOMA.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Brian?

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'll get on it. I always enjoy a robust but polite debate.

I do think such people exist, but I blame the system for protecting them from robust challenge. Learning to articulate and defend your beliefs should be a core part of going to college, and yet all too often today college classes are echo chambers of like-minded opinion. While feminists of the 60s had years of experience debating with men, feminists today genuinely seem to believe that if you preface every sentence with "As a woman..." you win by default.

I'm not going to argue with you. I've never encountered such people. Not even online. I'd agree that any beliefs worth holding is a belief worth defending. It's strange that anyone wouldn't believe that.

We're getting on too well lately. I blame Trump.

MightyMandarin

AnGaelach wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupations_by_the_Soviet_Union

God damn Commie liberals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War

Don't forget these commie liberals either.

ancapailldorcha

MightyMandarin wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War

Don't forget these commie liberals either.

Stop dumping links.

AnGaelach

Brian? wrote: »

So what did he do that was liberal minded?

Taxpayer Relief Act, Violence Against Women Act, Adoption and Safe Families, Financial Services Modernisation, Freedom of Access to Clinics, Child Citizenship...

A look at the legislation he passed leans more towards socially liberal attitudes than him not being liberal (both socially and economically).

Brian? wrote: »

No liberal would have enacted DOMA.

The Progressive Democrats also opposed gay marriage (preferring civil partnership - effectively giving people the same legal status but without the name "marriage"), that doesn't mean they weren't liberal.

FA Hayek

oscarBravo wrote: »

You made actual points?

I guess calling people "insufferable ghastly creatures" is what passes for making actual points in alternative-facts land.

Ah, so no engagement then on the over arching point about how self proclaimed progressive liberals, especially holloywood, are no longer liberals.

HZA

Absolutely, how else are fascists going to be stopped?

oscarBravo

FA Hayek wrote: »

Ah, so no engagement then on the over arching point about how self proclaimed progressive liberals, especially holloywood, are no longer liberals.

That was your overarching point? It must have got lost in all the name-calling and butthurt about Hollywood people having the lèse-majesté to be critical of the Dear Leader.

KingBrian2

oscarBravo wrote: »

That was your overarching point? It must have got lost in all the name-calling and butthurt about Hollywood people having the lèse-majesté to be critical of the Dear Leader.

The complaint within the US is not that Hollywood is critical of Donald J Trump it is that many conservatives are pressured to agree with the consensus that Trump is a travesty to the Nation and will usher in a fascist dictatorship. Their views are being distorted by the media and the negative traits of Trump are being emphasized over and over again to the point that liberal operators are exploiting the situation and generating fear and hatred across the world not just in America. The liberals have become what the conservatives were like when Pres Obama was in office.

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The complaint within the US is not that Hollywood is critical of Donald J Trump it is that many conservatives are pressured to agree with the consensus that Trump is a travesty to the Nation and will usher in a fascist dictatorship. Their views are being distorted by the media and the negative traits of Trump are being emphasized over and over again to the point that liberal operators are exploiting the situation and generating fear and hatred across the world not just in America. The liberals have become what the conservatives were like when Pres Obama was in office.

You don't think that a conservative can denounce Trump through their own personal convictions alone? Anyone who calls themself a 'fiscal conservative' has to denounce a man who plans to spend billions on a useless wall or whose wife is costing the taxpayer a million a day while living in NY.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

You don't think that a conservative can denounce Trump through their own personal convictions alone? Anyone who calls themself a 'fiscal conservative' has to denounce a man who plans to spend billions on a useless wall or whose wife is costing the taxpayer a million a day while living in NY.

It is worth pointing and this is important that despite all this talk the back and forte. The heated conversations and that we still have not seen a vote in the Congress yet on raft of legislation. As far as i understand the executive signs the laws and is involved in drafting the laws but ultimately it has to be approved by Congress and of course the Judiciary play their part. No such controversial votes have yet reached Congress like so many Presidents so will Congress finally get stuck in and start making the law of the land.

demfad

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The complaint within the US is not that Hollywood is critical of Donald J Trump it is that many conservatives are pressured to agree with the consensus that Trump is a travesty to the Nation and will usher in a fascist dictatorship. Their views are being distorted by the media and the negative traits of Trump are being emphasized over and over again to the point that liberal operators are exploiting the situation and generating fear and hatred across the world not just in America. The liberals have become what the conservatives were like when Pres Obama was in office.

Sorry but that is complete and utter rubbish. It is president Trump who has generated fear with his threats in words and deeds to people who are not white, american and male.
Youre argument seems to be that people complaining about Nazi symbols painted on schools is worse than painting Nazi symbols on schools.

jooksavage

MightyMandarin wrote: »

You don't think that a conservative can denounce Trump through their own personal convictions alone? Anyone who calls themself a 'fiscal conservative' has to denounce a man who plans to spend billions on a useless wall or whose wife is costing the taxpayer a million a day while living in NY.

This x 10000.

Trump is not a conservative, either socially or fiscally. Plenty of self-proclaiming conservatives hitched their wagon to him because he wasn't Clinton. We'll get to see how true they are to their ideals when the prospect of trade tarriffs becomes a reality and the bill for the Wall arrives in the post.

KingBrian2

demfad wrote: »

Sorry but that is complete and utter rubbish. It is president Trump who has generated fear with his threats in words and deeds to people who are not white, american and male.
Youre argument seems to be that people complaining about Nazi symbols painted on schools is worse than painting Nazi symbols on schools.

Is it really the fear was already out there. The immigration and Jihadi crisis was manufactured to some extent in Washington and Trump is a natural reaction to politicians not working together but essentially doing what the media want of them. Not surprised really that it was a Judge that actually defied Trump as we see very little opposition in Congress. I can take this to mean that Congress still has no unified or coherent position on immigration control and the two parties are still too far apart. Take Obamacare Trump signed the repeal of that law following years of outbursts and growing disenfranchisement of the Republican base. A very popular move by Pres Trump.

alastair

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Take Obamacare Trump signed the repeal of that law following years of outbursts and growing disenfranchisement of the Republican base. A very popular move by Pres Trump.

Not according to Pew: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/01/us/politics/obamacare-approval-poll.html

Nor the Kaiser Family Foundation: https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-02-01/republicans-rebrand-obamacare-strategy-from-repeal-to-repair

demfad

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Is it really the fear was already out there. The immigration and Jihadi crisis was manufactured to some extent in Washington and Trump is a natural reaction to politicians not working together but essentially doing what the media want of them. Not surprised really that it was a Judge that actually defied Trump as we see very little opposition in Congress. I can take this to mean that Congress still has no unified or coherent position on immigration control and the two parties are still too far apart. Take Obamacare Trump signed the repeal of that law following years of outbursts and growing disenfranchisement of the Republican base. A very popular move by Pres Trump.

The judiciary are obliged to uphold the law. Nothing to do with media.
Trump's ban was a sectarian ban on Muslims, that will be upheld by the court. No citizen of any banned country has killed an American citizen in 20 years on US soil.
Obamacare has seen it's highest popularity since the election. I guess when you try and take something away people realise its value. Even though Republicans still calling it Obamacare, people now realise it is = Affordable Care. Trump has lowest popularity of any president at thsi time since records began despite what you say.

KingBrian2

alastair wrote: »

Not according to Pew: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/01/us/politics/obamacare-approval-poll.html

Nor the Kaiser Family Foundation: https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-02-01/republicans-rebrand-obamacare-strategy-from-repeal-to-repair

49- 47 against i'd say we have a slim majority against Pres Obama's transformation program.

Qs

FA Hayek wrote: »

Ah, so no engagement then on the over arching point about how self proclaimed progressive liberals, especially holloywood, are no longer liberals.

Maybe the people of Hollywood aren't the hivemind monolith you imagine them to be.

KingBrian2

demfad wrote: »

The judiciary are obliged to uphold the law. Nothing to do with media.
Trump's ban was a sectarian ban on Muslims, that will be upheld by the court. No citizen of any banned country has killed an American citizen in 20 years on US soil.
Obamacare has seen it's highest popularity since the election. I guess when you try and take something away people realise its value. Even though Republicans still calling it Obamacare, people now realise it is = Affordable Care. Trump has lowest popularity of any president at thsi time since records began despite what you say.

Are those entering the US from those Muslim countries even citizens in their homeland. The US is offering amnesty to certain Muslims in certain parts of the world this is bound to stoke up tensions at home. Jews, Christians make up a huge percentage of the US population and by letting in large numbers of Muslims in like this without restrictions or background documents you are merely adding to the suspicion and disorder.