Anyone else becoming terrified of Liberals.

Widdershins

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Trump pointed out that there's a huge problem with gangs, guns and drugs (that's code for black lads causing trouble). Trump's fans are delighted that he pointed it out but they don't have a clue what he will do to solve the problem.

As far as I can see, pointing out problems with minorities is an integral part of making white Americans feel great again. He doesn't really need to do anything about the problem (policies can be messy to implement).

He just needs to keep pointing out the problem with black lads and be sure to back any white cops who shoot any blast lads in dubious circumstances. Job's oxo.

Thanks for clarifying.
I'd rather not be too pessimistic..
Hopefully he will do something constructive.
He promised to reform the school system in favour of underprivileged students, which would help in the longer term.

Brian?

Widdershins wrote: »

What's going on in Chicago?

I'm told it's a wonderful city to visit if you Blues music, BBQ and deep dish pizza. The Cubs also won the World Series last year.

There is some gun violence in the ghettos.

Widdershins

Brian? wrote: »

I'm told it's a wonderful city to visit if you Blues music, BBQ and deep dish pizza. The Cubs also won the World Series last year.

There is some gun violence in the ghettos.

I wouldn't go there..that's a mad place.

Brian?

Widdershins wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying.
I'd rather not be too pessimistic..
Hopefully he will do something constructive.
He promised to reform the school system in favour of underprivileged students, which would help in the longer term.

He promised to reform schools in favour of poor kids, great. A noble aspiration.

Then he nominated a Secretary for Education he doesn't think their should be a public school system.

Do not listen to what Trump says. Watch what he does.

Widdershins

Brian? wrote: »

He promised to reform schools in favour of poor kids, great. A noble aspiration.

Then he nominated a Secretary for Education he doesn't think their should be a public school system.

Do not listen to what Trump says. Watch what he does.

Yes, I am, or will be when the media madness subsides. As yet he and his secretary for ed haven't done anything to the contrary.

If you want to keep up to date, you need serious dedication for wading through the misinformation and hype around his every move and gesture.

RabbleRouser2k

To a degree, I have become nervous of them-and I have to say, I still hold 'liberal' beliefs, but some are conservative. What has disgusted me is how the so-called 'progressive' movement is so regressive.
'Free speech for all' has become 'free speech for some-the rest of you are 'haters'. And then we have people saying 'it's not in the public's interest' when you really have to allow the public to decide what is in their interest.
The 'progressive' movement has become almost offended for the sake of feeling offended. It's why some TV characters, like and I kid you not, Speedy Gonzalez, were shoved out of movies and reairing the cartoons because he was offensive to Mexicans. But the reason he was brought back was because Mexicans adored him.
There is far too much thought policing-telling people what they can and cannot believe in is ridiculous. Hell, they didn't even correctly monitor who they got to speak at the women's march-and look at the crazy people who turned up to that. A convicted murdering rapist, a person promoting bombing the white house, and someone who wants global sharia law.
No, that's crazy.
Its like if you have genuine fears, genuine concerns (not stuff like vaccines, for example) then you cannot talk about it.

MightyMandarin

Widdershins wrote: »

Do you mean that most Muslims would join ISIS if they weren't made welcome?

I totally disagree about ''anti Islam''. In this day and age it's sensible to be critical of religions, especially such fast growing ones that have their own legal and political system.

You don't want the West to play into ISIS hands? Then we'd better stop drawing provocative cartoons, dressing how we please, kissing in public and marching in solidarity with gay people. We don't modify our behaviour to suit ISIS, do we?

No, I mean that if we start acting like ISIS and convince the world that this is indeed a "Muslims v the World" war, well you're hardly going ton see recruitment fall with ISIS. If they're already that good at brainwashing young disenfranchised people, imagine what they could do with the general muslim public if we all took Trump's attitude.

Nothing wrong with being critical, but people denouncing a religion with almost 2bn followers as 'barbaric' is ridiculous. If it was a cult, fine, but Islam has been around for thousands of years. It's the same with Christianity; the fundamentalists, not the religion, is the problem.

You completely missed my point. The general muslim public like living here, certainly the ordinary ones living in Raqqa and Mosul will tell you that life under ISIS was ****e; no smoking, can't shave your beard etc.

By embracing an intolerant, xenophobic and islamophobic ideology we are actually modifying our behaviour based on ISIS. By sticking to the principles we hold up in our society of tolerance, respect and freedom we'll do more to hurt ISIS than any bomb or bullet. Islamophobes and Xenophobes are playing into ISIS' hands; they're being dragged into a scenario which they want and all the followers of Wilders, Trump and Le Pen are biting the bait and encouraging ISIS' sustainability or growth.

Zubeneschamali

Widdershins wrote: »

He promised to reform the school system in favour of underprivileged students, which would help in the longer term.

And then he appointed as Secretary of Education a billionaire who bought a place in his Cabinet and hates public schools.

Zubeneschamali

Widdershins wrote: »

Yes, I am, or will be when the media madness subsides.

That'll be January 2021.

MightyMandarin

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

And then he appointed as Secretary of Education a billionaire who bought a place in his Cabinet and hates public schools.

Don't forget it's the same woman who promised to turn the school system into "God's Kingdom" and believes guns should be allowed in schools " 'cause dem grizzly bears".

Zubeneschamali

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Don't forget it's the same woman who promised to turn the school system into "God's Kingdom" and believes guns should be allowed in schools " 'cause dem grizzly bears".

In fairness there have been no, zero grizzly bear attacks in schools since she was appointed, so it seems the bears got the message, bigly.

Widdershins

MightyMandarin wrote: »

No, I mean that if we start acting like ISIS and convince the world that this is indeed a "Muslims v the World" war, well you're hardly going ton see recruitment fall with ISIS. If they're already that good at brainwashing young disenfranchised people, imagine what they could do with the general muslim public if we all took Trump's attitude.

Nothing wrong with being critical, but people denouncing a religion with almost 2bn followers as 'barbaric' is ridiculous. If it was a cult, fine, but Islam has been around for thousands of years. It's the same with Christianity; the fundamentalists, not the religion, is the problem.

You completely missed my point. The general muslim public like living here, certainly the ordinary ones living in Raqqa and Mosul will tell you that life under ISIS was ****e; no smoking, can't shave your beard etc.

By embracing an intolerant, xenophobic and islamophobic ideology we are actually modifying our behaviour based on ISIS. By sticking to the principles we hold up in our society of tolerance, respect and freedom we'll do more to hurt ISIS than any bomb or bullet. Islamophobes and Xenophobes are playing into ISIS' hands; they're being dragged into a scenario which they want and all the followers of Wilders, Trump and Le Pen are biting the bait and encouraging ISIS' sustainability or growth.

I mostly agree with you except the duration of the religion has no bearing on its legitimacy or goodness and I don't think tolerance is always a good thing. Tolerance suggests putting up with things.
I don't see the wisdom in tolerating any oppressive or barbaric practices within any religion no matter how many adherents it has or how old it is. I don't think there's any xenophobic ideologies for us to embrace in Ireland but if there were I would not be rushing to do so.

On re-reading, I should say I agree strongly, we certainly should never give the impression we want some kind of war on Muslims. I should have been clearer in my agreement there.

I also wanted to point out that Islam is getting a glamorous makeover from some quarters, such as Linda Sarsour and her followers. She's a proponent of shariah law and iirc FGM! Now that is a perfect example of something that we should not extend tolerance to. You can of course respecctfully reject something without declaring war on the whole religion or culture or region it has been connected to in that instance.

Her treatment of other Muslim women especially apostates has been horrific and shameful.

Widdershins

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That'll be January 2021.

Haha. Then so be it. You'll get no sense out of the media as it is. I do not trust or believe them.

El_Duderino 09

Widdershins wrote:

Thanks for clarifying. I'd rather not be too pessimistic.. Hopefully he will do something constructive. He promised to reform the school system in favour of underprivileged students, which would help in the longer term.

Well as long as he promised...

Widdershins

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Well as long as he promised...

Negativity will get us nowhere

StringerBell

Extremism on either side, left or right is always a concern. Mob mentality is not reserved for just one side, both feel 100% justified in their actions and totally sure they are the ones who should prevail. When you get to the fringes they are more willing to use any means to further their ends.

There is a huge reaction on the left in the US at the moment, it is for sure a very interesting and often terrifying time ahead but these things do ebb and flow so I wouldn't be unduly concerned just yet. Trump and his administration would still hold more concern for me overall as they are the ones holding the cards right now.

El_Duderino 09

Widdershins wrote:

Negativity will get us nowhere

Relying on promises will get us nowhere either.

Ask a trump supported for a prediction of what he'll do or what he should do and if they're honest they'll tell you they don't have a clue - but they'll like it whenever they find out what it is. It's dogmatic and it's worrying.

I don't think he'll do anything to help the people. He's making white Americans feel great again - feel greater than the scummy blacks causing all the trouble in Chicago at least. He doesn't have to do anything more. I'd be surprised if he does anything else to be honest.

johnp001

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Relying on promises will get us nowhere either.

Ask a trump supported for a prediction of what he'll do or what he should do and if they're honest they'll tell you they don't have a clue - but they'll like it whenever they find out what it is. It's dogmatic and it's worrying.

I don't think he'll do anything to help the people. He's making white Americans feel great again - feel greater than the scummy blacks causing all the trouble in Chicago at least. He doesn't have to do anything more. I'd be surprised if he does anything else to be honest.

He has already done a lot of the things he promised to do in the campaign.
Notably, getting rid of TPP and TTIP (which was a main plank of Sanders campaign too) and setting in motion repeal and replacement of Obamacare.
Obama campaigned on ending wars, closing guantanamo etc and did none of those things in 8 years.
You can agree or disagree what it is that Trump said he is going to do bit you can't fault him for setting about doing it right out of the gate.

Widdershins

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Relying on promises will get us nowhere either.

Ask a trump supported for a prediction of what he'll do or what he should do and if they're honest they'll tell you they don't have a clue - but they'll like it whenever they find out what it is. It's dogmatic and it's worrying.

I don't think he'll do anything to help the people. He's making white Americans feel great again - feel greater than the scummy blacks causing all the trouble in Chicago at least. He doesn't have to do anything more. I'd be surprised if he does anything else to be honest.

I know a couple of Trump supporters and I don't think they'd agree nor would they appreciate that depiction but I'm sure that doesn't bother you.

El_Duderino 09

Widdershins wrote:

I know a couple of Trump supporters and I don't think they'd agree nor would they appreciate that depiction but I'm sure that doesn't bother you.

Ask them what they think he'll do about Chicago and see what they say.

We need to wait and see whether he does. What he does has been established. He makes an inflammatory statement about a minority, then move on to the next issue.

There's nothing in this for the people affected by gun violence in Chicago.

Widdershins

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ask them what they think he'll do about Chicago and see what they say.

We need to wait and see whether he does. What he does has been established. He makes an inflammatory statement about a minority, then move on to the next issue.

There's nothing in this for the people affected by gun violence in Chicago.

I'm more than sick of the subject but if it comes up I will. What was his statement?

Brian?

It's funny. With all of this talk about Chicago, it's not even the most dangerous city in illinois. East St Louis wins that dubious honour.

Trump probably doesn't know that though.

KingBrian2

If you search the internet you will find article after article of Americans leaving the country to participate in Jihadi organisations oversees. The liberals cannot say the proliferation of Islamism has not been a major factor in the election of Donald Trump. When liberals start defending Islamism their arguments become weak. Of course Trump is not after all Muslims but by constantly attacking the President they actual do all our interests harm. We all want to live free of terror and America needs to take a position that it no longer tolerates such acts of cruelty. Previous immigration systems allowed dangerous people to enter America, France, Germany and Britain without any regard for the security and popular views of the voters.

Brian?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If you search the internet you will find article after article of Americans leaving the country to participate in Jihadi organisations oversees. The liberals cannot say the proliferation of Islamism has not been a major factor in the election of Donald Trump. When liberals start defending Islamism their arguments become weak. Of course Trump is not after all Muslims but by constantly attacking the President they actual do all our interests harm. We all want to live free of terror and America needs to take a position that it no longer tolerates such acts of cruelty. Previous immigration systems allowed dangerous people to enter America, France, Germany and Britain without any regard for the security and popular views of the voters.

Who or what is this a response to?

El_Duderino 09

Widdershins wrote:

I'm more than sick of the subject but if it comes up I will. What was his statement?

Chicago's dreadful. Rotten with drugs guns and gangs. He was speaking to police chief's and told them they could deal with it.

He didn't even say he'd do anything about it. Just pointed out that it's bad. Trump supporters are delighted as he did the job already. Make white Americans feel great again. No need for further action.

See what they say he'll do and wait to see if he does anything.

Zubeneschamali

Brian? wrote: »

It's funny. With all of this talk about Chicago, it's not even the most dangerous city in illinois.

Chicago is important because it connects "urban" (meaning black) crime to Obama.

KingBrian2

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Chicago's dreadful. Rotten with drugs guns and gangs. He was speaking to police chief's and told them they could deal with it.

He didn't even say he'd do anything about it. Just pointed out that it's bad. Trump supporters are delighted as he did the job already. Make white Americans feel great again. No need for further action.

See what they say he'll do and wait to see if he does anything.

It should not matter if it is Black or White or Latino Crime but those communities suffer the most without taking those criminals out.

Widdershins

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Chicago's dreadful. Rotten with drugs guns and gangs. He was speaking to police chief's and told them they could deal with it.

He didn't even say he'd do anything about it. Just pointed out that it's bad. Trump supporters are delighted as he did the job already. Make white Americans feel great again. No need for further action.

See what they say he'll do and wait to see if he does anything.

I thought you said it was an inflammatory statement against an ethnic group?

El_Duderino 09

KingBrian2 wrote:

It should not matter if it is Black or White or Latino Crime but those communities suffer the most without taking those criminals out.

He didn't propose going anything about it. He just pointed out that it's bad - making white Americans feel great again. I wonder if you even noticed that he didn't even propose a solution to the problem

Widdershins wrote:

I thought you said it was an inflammatory statement against an ethnic group?

Guns gangs drugs in chicago = black lads. No way he's going to say anything about the drug problems in Ohio because that's mostly white people.

Brian?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It should not matter if it is Black or White or Latino Crime but those communities suffer the most without taking those criminals out.

Why do you think Trump is singling out Chicago as opposed to the 100 or so places in the US that are more dangerous to live in than Chicago?

KingBrian2

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He didn't propose going anything about it. He just pointed out that it's bad - making white Americans feel great again. I wonder if you even noticed that he didn't even propose a solution to the problem



Guns gangs drugs in chicago = black lads. No way he's going to say anything about the drug problems in Ohio because that's mostly white people.

Hold on making White Americans feel great again Blacks are the ones living in the nightmare that is the ghettos of Chicago. You might say fabulously wealthy Trump has no business sticking his noise into deprived communities with all his wealth but that same argument can be made against the crooked politicians in D.C. who have done nothing to advance the cause of equality in the country.

Widdershins

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He didn't propose going anything about it. He just pointed out that it's bad - making white Americans feel great again. I wonder if you even noticed that he didn't even propose a solution to the problem



Guns gangs drugs in chicago = black lads. No way he's going to say anything about the drug problems in Ohio because that's mostly white people.

I don't trust your judgement here at all. This is your interpretation that you present as if it was the literal transcript of his ''inflammatory statement''. Putting two and two together and coming up with twenty. It's practically fake news.

I think he mentioned sending in ''the Feds''.

Zubeneschamali

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You might say fabulously wealthy Trump has no business sticking his noise into deprived communities with all his wealth

Indeed, that is why he appointed a Brain Surgeon and a Comedian to handle "urban" issues. They'll be cool, because they are black urban, too.

Brian?

Widdershins wrote: »

I don't trust your judgement here at all. This is your interpretation that you present as if it was the literal transcript of his ''inflammatory statement''. Putting two and two together and coming up with twenty. It's practically fake news.

I think he mentioned sending in ''the Feds''.

Do you understand the legal issues involved in sending in "the Feds". I don't think Donald does

KingBrian2

Brian? wrote: »

Do you understand the legal issues involved in sending in "the Feds". I don't think Donald does

He knows enough that the current situation is intolerable. Lets face it Chicago has one of the highest crime records in America and while Democrats were too busy implementing Republican policies a vacuum was created and Trump has filled that space. He spoke a lot at his convention about lawlessness across the country so he was pretty vague. Now that he is in office he must provide details on what his administration is going to do.

Widdershins

Brian? wrote: »

Do you understand the legal issues involved in sending in "the Feds". I don't think Donald does

No and couldn't care less-why would or should I as an Irish citizen? I'm sure if he does not he will be advised on it. Hopefully by people with more of value to say than endless snipes.

SeamusFX

I can't understand how someone could start a thread blaming the Liberal! Let's face it, the people protesting are peacefully protesting against a man who is not only the most unqualified president ever, didn't win by a majority, but claims and acts as if he did and is also an arrogant loose cannon, who could endanger the world and is now showing signs of a mental illness. Meanwhile, his alt-right base will buy anything he throws at them, not matter how many times he is proven wrong and his story lines have been proven to be lies. It's gotten so bad, the media is now even afraid to say Trump and his mouthpieces lied and they refer to it as alternative truths. I'm sorry, if you intentionally say something that is untrue, it's a lie. Ironically, it's the right wing that claims the liberal sugar coat things, such hypocrisy. Sorry, but many of the people protesting aren't even liberals, just people who are fearful of what Trump will do to America and the World. In America for the next 4 years, the left has a lot more to be fearful for than the right. I'm not living in America and I was disgusted with the results of the election, but I'm very happy to see there are still many people with sense who are going out there peacefully protesting.

MightyMandarin

Forgetting the fact that Chicago is only being singled out because it's Obama's home city, what exactly do people want him to do?

As long as the war on drugs continues, so too will gangs and criminals flourish. Has Trump or the GOP done anything to stop this, or do they plan to? The answer is a resounding NO.

Forget about legalising drugs, cause there's not a hope in hell they'll do it; what about addicts? It took Mike Pence months to allow needle exchanges for the HIV epidemic in Indiana, with hundreds dying in the meantime, and once the exchange program did its job and the HIV outbreak died down? He banned it again. Utter ****ing moron.

Now think about tackling the violence, cause this is what Donald loves to ****e on about. Are you in favour of him doing some sort of Duterte-style campaign employing officers and death squads to round-up and mass execute drug dealers and barons? Don't think for a second there won't be even more innocent lives lost.

Now think about the gun violence, cause let's face it, the NRA love to hold up Chicago's strict (by American standards) gun laws, and point to "this is what happens; criminals get the guns". Will Trump, and especially Pence given Indiana falls into the outskirts of the city, be looking to enforce gun control in the neighbouring states of Wisconsin and Indiana? Will they tighten the gun restrictions especially since it's a well-known fact that the gangs can drive 50miles either way and buy as much as they like in order to by-pass Illinois' laws?

Trump can talk all the bollocks he wants about "bringing in the Feds" but the reality is he'll avoid the policies that would actually solve the problem. He can also claim he cares about the people of Chicago but the reality is Obama in his several years as a community organizer will be the only modern president to have done anything good for that city.

El_Duderino 09

KingBrian2 wrote:

Hold on making White Americans feel great again Blacks are the ones living in the nightmare that is the ghettos of Chicago. You might say fabulously wealthy Trump has no business sticking his noise into deprived communities with all his wealth but that same argument can be made against the crooked politicians in D.C. who have done nothing to advance the cause of equality in the country.

He hasn't proposed doing anything to help those people in those ghettos. He just told the whole country about is terrible those ghetto people are. That's all he had to do.

I suppose you're impressed that he even spoke about it. Will you hold it against him if he doesn't attempt to improve those people's situation?

El_Duderino 09

Widdershins wrote:

I don't trust your judgement here at all. This is your interpretation that you present as if it was the literal transcript of his ''inflammatory statement''. Putting two and two together and coming up with twenty. It's practically fake news.

I was paraphrasing. That should be clear.

Widdershins wrote:

I think he mentioned sending in ''the Feds''.

What does that even mean? Sending in the feds?

Brian?

Widdershins wrote: »

No and couldn't care less-why would or should I as an Irish citizen? I'm sure if he does not he will be advised on it. Hopefully by people with more of value to say than endless snipes.

So what's your input into the debate if you clearly know nothing about it?

Widdershins

Brian? wrote: »

So what's your input into the debate if you clearly know nothing about it?

The thread is not about U.S Law around drugs and gangs.

red ears

Brian? wrote: »

It's funny. With all of this talk about Chicago, it's not even the most dangerous city in illinois. East St Louis wins that dubious honour.

Trump probably doesn't know that though.

East st Louis is 97 percent black.

Brian?

Widdershins wrote: »

The thread is not about U.S Law around drugs and gangs.

You answered a post that was about the crime problem in Chicago though and implied Trump should be given time to show he could fix it.

He doesn't even understand how law enforcement works, demonstrated by his "send in the Feds" tweet. How in gods name could he fix it?

Widdershins

Brian? wrote: »

You answered a post that was about the crime problem in Chicago though and implied Trump should be given time to show he could fix it.

He doesn't even understand how law enforcement works, demonstrated by his "send in the Feds" tweet. How in gods name could he fix it?

I answered a post to enquire whether Trump had really made inflammatory statements about an ethnic group.It was many comments back now so I'm not going back just to see what your reason for dragging it up was. I don't think this line of questioning of yours is enhancing the thread either.

Brian?

red ears wrote: »

East st Louis is 97 percent black.

Your point?

red ears

Brian? wrote: »

Your point?

Until I read your post I'd never heard of the place so I googled it. It's interesting and depressing that the most violent or crime ridden place in Illinois is 97 percent black. Whats your opinion on that stat?

Brian?

red ears wrote: »

Until I read your post I'd never heard of the place so I googled it. It's interesting and depressing that the most violent or crime ridden place in Illinois is 97 percent black. Whats your opinion on that stat?

It's terrible. I don't care about the racial profile.

demfad

red ears wrote: »

Until I read your post I'd never heard of the place so I googled it. It's interesting and depressing that the most violent or crime ridden place in Illinois is 97 percent black. Whats your opinion on that stat?

What are the poverty levels? Where correlation is found to exist academic research tends to correlate crime rates to poverty rates.

Your post implies that crime rates are high in that area because most people are black. Do you have any reason to state this? If you don't have reason then by definition your argument is based on prejudice which in this case would be racism.

Can you clear this up please?

marienbad

red ears wrote: »

Until I read your post I'd never heard of the place so I googled it. It's interesting and depressing that the most violent or crime ridden place in Illinois is 97 percent black. Whats your opinion on that stat?

I am sure you could do a similar exercise on Limerick city in the 80's , and you would probably find that 85% of the crime was due to the inhabitants of about 4 housing estates .

What do you think that tells us ?