Paris again?

Bob24

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you feel insulted I apologise.

I just have no idea what your opinions are as you don't consciously read any posts and brag about that fact. Seems a bit petulant but hey, it's a free country. You dont have to express your opinions but would be good to know if you have any.

Well, that was a short lived apology ;-)

Butters1979

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you feel insulted I apologise.

I just have no idea what your opinions are as you don't consciously read any posts and brag about that fact. Seems a bit petulant but hey, it's a free country. You dont have to express your opinions but would be good to know if you have any.

You've no idea what my opinions are but were still able to tell me I was incapable of changing them? Go away. Not interest and we're derailing the thread.

Someone said he was carrying paintballs? Any source for that? I wouldn't be surprised there's the type of person out there who would love to go into that place and ruin a load of paintings. But are they the same kind of person that would take on a soldier holding a rifle with a machete?

Mr. Incognito

Mary63 wrote: »

These people are those people who decapitate an elderly man trying to protect priceless arifacts.

I think you are referring to ISIS in Syria
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/18/isis-beheads-archaeologist-syria

These people are those people who decapitate an elderly priest, attackers are in their early twenties.

I think you are referring to Etienne-du-Rouvary. These were radicalised French citizens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Normandy_church_attack

These people are the ones who drug themselves up to the hilt and then murder people enjoying a concert, reason being the Koran forbids music and dance.

I think this is the Bataclan attacks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks

The pepatrators were French and Belgian and two Iraqis.

These people are the ones who murder gay people enjoying a night out, reason being the Koran says homosexuality is illegal.

This appears to be the Orlando Shootings.
This was carried out by a radicalised American from New York
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Orlando_nightclub_shooting


Need I go on, what about all the honour killings of young women who decide that they aren't owned by anyone so they will marry who they please.What about the fifteen year old girl shot in the head because she wanted to go to school.

These people are living back in the sixteenth century and they want to spread their message of hatred of normal civilised people, i.e. murder journalists in cold blood even though the pen is mightier than the sword.

I have no wish to appease anyone like this, no wish to engage in anyway with their twisted illogical thinking so if they want a way of life that is incompatible with Western values then off they go, I will hold the door open for them myself.

All of "these" people were radicalised Nationals in their own countries. Where are they supposed to be deported to?

Mr. Incognito

Butters1979 wrote: »

You've no idea what my opinions are but were still able to tell me I was incapable of changing them? Go away. Not interest and we're derailing the thread.

Someone said he was carrying paintballs? Any source for that? I wouldn't be surprised there's the type of person out there who would love to go into that place and ruin a load of paintings. But are they the same kind of person that would take on a soldier holding a rifle with a machete?

Well like Jesus to Judas I've asked you three times. That's thrice you have denied me. As you say we are derailing so I shall leave you to your own nursed ideas.

open_minded

Can you not kiss and make up?

That's a Judas reference by the way.

First post.

Billy86

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

His arm looks white to me.

I agree. I just find it interesting that he looks white.

Hard to tell, and it's really too early to know much of anything about him - and on the other side, the Quebec shooter also reportedly shouted 'Allahu Akbar' so that doesn't tell us an awful lot either at this stage. For what it's worth, on the photo I think you're looking at (this one), I think the white is actually one of the soldiers' neck/head/hand as opposed to the attackers' arm.

Billy86

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

All of "these" people were radicalised Nationals in their own countries. Where are they supposed to be deported to?

The same place as Dylann Roof, Eric Rudolph, Timothy McVeigh, Anders Breivik, Alexandre Bisonette, etc I would imagine...

Mr. Incognito

Billy86 wrote: »

Hard to tell, and it's really too early to know much of anything about him - and on the other side, the Quebec shooter also reportedly shouted 'Allahu Akbar' so that doesn't tell us an awful lot either at this stage. For what it's worth, on the photo I think you're looking at (this one), I think the white is actually one of the soldiers' neck/head/hand as opposed to the attackers' arm.

No it's not that one. Its the second one from the Mail I posted about two pages back.

And no, the arm is visible in both and belongs to the attacker.

open_minded

Like a previous poster said, Islam is deeply embedded into France.

Approx 10% of their population of 60 million are Muslim.


Will France be able to create or foster a society where Islam and secular western values can peacefully co-exist?

It all seems to depend on Islam, and whether or not Islam can reform itself like Catholicism did centuries ago.

Marine le Pen is unlikely to win in France I feel. She needs either 50% or more in the first round which is unlikely as there are 5 or more runners, or 50% or more in the second round, which is also unlikely, as many French will vote for her opponent to deny her.

Mary63

Most of the radicalised had left their homes in the West to go and join ISIS, this was in spite of growing up in the West with all that modern developed Western society has to offer.Most of the terrorists are losers, no qualifications, no money apart from welfare benefits, living in deprived areas with no hope of bettering themselves because they didn't engage with education,they are filled with hatred for Western people especially Western young women who they think should be imprisoned at home and if allowed out should be covered from head to toe so no one has to look at bare female flesh.

Thats the thing though, were do you send them, can we even stop the ones who went to Syria from getting back into Europe, most will invent false names and tell untrue tales of woe and give false dates of birth so they can claim asylum.How can we just leave them in Syria to continue to rape women and children, it is all so depressing.

Mr. Incognito

Mary63 wrote: »

Most of the radicalised had left their homes in the West to go and join ISIS, this was in spite of growing up in the West with all that modern developed Western society has to offer.Most of the terrorists are losers, no qualifications, no money apart from welfare benefits, living in deprived areas with no hope of bettering themselves because they didn't engage with education,they are filled with hatred for Western people especially Western young women who they think should be imprisoned at home and if allowed out should be covered from head to toe so no one has to look at bare female flesh.

Thats the thing though, were do you send them, can we even stop the ones who went to Syria from getting back into Europe, most will invent false names and tell untrue tales of woe and give false dates of birth so they can claim asylum.How can we just leave them in Syria to continue to rape women and children, it is all so depressing.

I'm not sure that is true.

The real question is why they as you say take off to Syria to become radicalised. They are obviously marginalised and feel like outsiders in the Country that they live in.

As a society do we then ostracise communities further because of this tiny minorty or do we roll out education programmes and invest in education, in our schools, in our economies, or do we spent more money on weapons and bombs and invading other countries.

There will always be radicals. History has taught us that but there are those that use violence and those that detest violence. If we, as a modern society say that violence and religious intolerance is wrong we should have the moral courage to stand up for that and resist lazy labels to say that 1.6 billion people in this world are radicalised. They are not. You have radical Christians who kill and radical Muslums who kill. You have radical athiests who kill. They are all the same. Embittered people who lash out.

We can't save them all, nor should we but our reaction should be more intelligent than

Islam= Bad.

Easy lazy answers are always the wrong ones.

Atoms for Peace

At this stage do we even have to ask who's to blame; but the mainstream political consensus is to an ostrich impersonation for fear of causing offence. Don't be surprised to see Le Pen the next president of France.

Mr. Incognito

Suspect named as Egypian

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/louvre-terror-attack-suspect-named-9752357

he suspect of the Louvre terror attack today has been named as a 29-year-old Egyptian unknown to French authorities.

Abdallah EH has been named by local media as the suspect after who reportedly entering the country on a visa from the United Arab Emirates last week.He was unknown to French intelligence but checks were being made with Egypt to see if they had flagged him, LCI reports.

DNA and fingerprint analysis was still ongoing but information had been gathered from his mobile phone, it was reported.he website reported the man arrived in Paris on January 26 at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris after flying in from Dubai.

He had made a visa application from the UAE for access to France last year and was approved, the website said.

Anti-terror police were now searching a hotel room on Rue de Ponthieu, in the 8th Arrondissement of the capital, the suspect had booked.

Abdallah had booked a return flight to Dubai for this Sunday.

The details have emerged after a dramatic picture emerged showing the moment soldiers shot the machete-wielding 'terrorist' at the Louvre in Paris today.

The man who police say shouted "Allahu akhbar" as he attacked the soldiers can be seen lying on the ground.

The soldiers stand anxiously above him pointing their guns following the attack.

The victim is now being treated for serious injuries in hospital after soldiers fired five shots during the suspected terror attack.

Soldiers patrolling as part of France’s on-going State of Emergency stopped the attacker getting into the building.

"He was carrying a suitcase and was refused access," said a police source at the scene.The man immediately withdrew a knife, and attacked.

"It was at this moment that a soldier used his weapon to disable the men, who was wounded.

"The area has been evacuated."

The drama unfolded next to the Carrousel du Louvre – a vast underground shopping centre built into the museum complex.


Police union official Yves Lefebvre said the man attacked soldiers when they told him he could not enter the underground shopping mall with his bags.

Mr Lefebvre says police found two machetes on the attacker.

A soldier was slightly wounded during the incident with other soldiers firing five shots at the attacker.

I don't want to defame anyone by posting a link but putting in Abdallah EH on Facebook seems to link to an open profile of a gentleman who appears to Egypian.

He certainly wouldnt fit the profile of as Islamic fundamentalist as this gentleman appears to be gay.

Billy86

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Suspect named as Egypian

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/louvre-terror-attack-suspect-named-9752357

Surely now Donald Trump, who felt the need to tweet about this being an example of Islamic terror just earlier today, will add Egypt to his list of banned countries, rather than keeping them off in the interests of his own personal financial gain. Right?

Mr. Incognito

Billy86 wrote: »

Surely now Donald Trump, who felt the need to tweet about this being an example of Islamic terror just earlier today, will add Egypt to his list of banned countries, rather than keeping them off in the interests of his own personal financial gain. Right?

Seems this lad was living in Dubai and had a return flight booked.

Ostensibly in Paris on a holiday.

A Little Pony

open_minded wrote: »

Like a previous poster said, Islam is deeply embedded into France.

Approx 10% of their population of 60 million are Muslim.


Will France be able to create or foster a society where Islam and secular western values can peacefully co-exist?

It all seems to depend on Islam, and whether or not Islam can reform itself like Catholicism did centuries ago.

Marine le Pen is unlikely to win in France I feel. She needs either 50% or more in the first round which is unlikely as there are 5 or more runners, or 50% or more in the second round, which is also unlikely, as many French will vote for her opponent to deny her.

Secularism and Islam does not compute. So the answer to this question is a resounding NO.

Donal55

Billy86 wrote: »

Surely now Donald Trump, who felt the need to tweet about this being an example of Islamic terror just earlier today, will add Egypt to his list of banned countries, rather than keeping them off in the interests of his own personal financial gain. Right?

Or maybe the EU just ban them and let Trump worry about the U.S.

Mary63

I don't know what your point about him being gay is Mrincognito.

The person who murdered the gay people in Florida was a regular visitor to the gay night club himself, ten to twenty per cent of Muslims are gay in orientation and they can scream abuse at the infidels for their gay lifestyle while hiding their own sexuality.WAsnt one of the Brussels terrorists a frequent visitor to gay bars too, the hypocrisy of these religious nut jobs is matched only by the hypocrisy of our won Roman Catholic clergy, most of whom are gay too.

Mr. Incognito

Mary63 wrote: »

I don't know what your point about him being gay is Mrincognito.

The person who murdered the gay people in Florida was a regular visitor to the gay night club himself, ten to twenty per cent of Muslims are gay in orientation and they can scream abuse at the infidels for their gay lifestyle while hiding their own sexuality.WAsnt one of the Brussels terrorists a frequent visitor to gay bars too, the hypocrisy of these religious nut jobs is matched only by the hypocrisy of our won Roman Catholic clergy, most of whom are gay too.

I'm not saying he is gay. I'm simply saying that there is a profile on Facebook with an Egypian with the same name who is gay. Doesn't mean its the same person.

But the attacker apparentely flew in from Dubai last Thursday and was due to fly out on Sunday.

Hypothetically if it is the same person it seems quite a strange profile for a terrorist.

The Sun are reporting that he went mad after being asked to open his bags.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/528185/louvre-terror-attack-suspect-identified-as-29-year-old-egyptian-who-arrived-in-france-a-week-ago-on-flight-from-dubai/

Dramatic pictures have emerged of the moment he was swooped on by four soldiers after he rampaged through the museum's underground shopping centre when he was challenged to open his bag.

The terror suspect was left critically injured after being blasted in the stomach and legs five times by one guard at around 11am this morning local time.

I do have a pertinent question thought.

He was INSIDE the Museum from the pictures.

Where did he get the knives? You have to pass through security and metal dectors to get to that part of the Museum.

Billy86

Donal55 wrote: »

Or maybe the EU just ban them and let Trump worry about the U.S.

But the EU isn't attempting to ban whole populations for entire countries (or at least whole Muslim populations), whereas Trump has - and has used this attempted attack (nice to see French soldiers appear to be well trained) to try and promote that further. Egypt however, where he has sizable business interests, is not on his list. Maybe today's events will inspire him to sacrifice some of his own money in what (at least what he figures) would be the the safety of his own people.

Or maybe his own pockets mean more to him. Either way, I guess we'll find out.

Noddyholder

Billy86 wrote: »

But the EU isn't attempting to ban whole populations for entire countries (or at least whole Muslim populations), whereas Trump has - and has used this attempted attack (nice to see French soldiers appear to be well trained) to try and promote that further. Egypt however, where he has sizable business interests, is not on his list. Maybe today's events will inspire him to sacrifice some of his own money in what (at least what he figures) would be the the safety of his own people.

Or maybe his own pockets mean more to him. Either way, I guess we'll find out.

This thread is not about P trump, its about an attack in Paris, allegedly by another Islamic terrorist/fighter etc or does everything now with you have to bring Trump into it ??

Laois_Man

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

And How exactly do you see Ireland supporting itself Financially.

You seem to have thought this through

What are you talking about? The EU does not financially support Ireland. We are now net contributors to the EU.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-contributes-more-money-than-it-gets-to-eu-for-first-time-34815450.html

Billy86

Noddyholder wrote: »

This thread is not about P trump, its about an attack in Paris, allegedly by another Islamic terrorist/fighter etc or does everything now with you have to bring Trump into it ??

The comment bears mentioning since Trump was so eager to get himself involved in it. It's part of the problem of having a president who doesn't know how to act presidential, they get themselves involved in a lot of awkward spots where they would be best to just avoid.

It will be interesting to see what information comes out from this, though it does seem a very odd and ineffective terror attack if it were planned out, in that while he was able to get a machete through security in the Louvre it was high risk (to get the machete in) and low reward (never going to wind up in maybe 1-2 kills before being gunned down) whereas typically they look for lower risk and higher reward (body count). As I said, great to see the French soldiers being well trained as if it was an Islamic terror attack, not only did they manage to put a stop to it before anyone could get hurt but also prevented the guy from making a martyr of himself.

jmayo

Billy86 wrote: »

The same place as Dylann Roof, Eric Rudolph, Timothy McVeigh, Anders Breivik, Alexandre Bisonette, etc I would imagine...

The latest trend appears to be to list out right wing terrorists as somehow a response to islamic fundamentalist terrorism.

I guess it is a lot easier to do since there isn't a list as long as your arm to have to type.

RobertKK

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

OK, because I read that as "He had it coming for running away from the police, you don't need to know the language to not do that".
But you're now sincerely claiming that they should have told him to stop in Portuguese?

I was putting a point across in a way to suggest that being told to stop, is not always clear cut.
The original that I responded to, suggested he should have obeyed the police, but I am saying maybe he did not understand and therefore that is why I mentioned Portuguese language, it was to make a point that with language difference, there can be unforeseen consequences.

Billy86

jmayo wrote: »

The latest trend appears to be to list out right wing terrorists as somehow a response to islamic fundamentalist terrorism.

I guess it is a lot easier to do since there isn't a list as long as your arm to have to type.

So where do you suggest France deports French born citizens to then, or where the US should deport US born citizens to?

Grayson

A Little Pony wrote: »

Secularism and Islam does not compute. So the answer to this question is a resounding NO.

Except for all the secular mulsims.

jmayo

Billy86 wrote: »

So where do you suggest France deports French born citizens to then, or where the US should deport US born citizens to?

If you are a citizen breaking the law or have been found planning to break it then jail or even internment for people associating with known jihadists.

If you are a citizen found to be returning from being with a fundamentalist terrorist organisation in overseas country then your passport is confiscated and you are deported back to that country to either stay with your terrorist friends or face the wrath of that states government if they are fighting those same terrorists.

e.g if you have been found to be fighting with ISIS in Syria you are sent on plane to Damascus and Assad's guys will deal with you.
If you make your bed with the likes of ISIS then shag you.

We saw last summer how well house arrest and monitoring worked in France.
And we saw how well letting these people wander around free worked out in Germany.

The majority have to be protected and if some fail to recognise the laws of the land and the rights of most people to live in a secular non discrimatory society then feck them.

And if people don't like it they can shag off and emigrate to some shytehole of a country that agrees with their cra**y beliefs.

BTW why are you asking me this in response to fact you just listed out the few right winger famous terrorists.

Do you really want me to actually start listing islamic fundamentalist terrorists ?

A Little Pony

Grayson wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Secularism and Islam does not compute. So the answer to this question is a resounding NO.

Except for all the secular mulsims.

Rarely will you find many in Islam who support gay rights, female rights, Jewish rights and keeping Islam out of government.

HONKEY TONK

Laois_Man wrote: »

What are you talking about? The EU does not financially support Ireland. We are now net contributors to the EU.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-contributes-more-money-than-it-gets-to-eu-for-first-time-34815450.html

I have to laugh your ignorance

in the article

The note states that in 2014, Ireland contributed around €1.69bn to the EU Budget, and received €1.52bn in return.

Do you know why Irish bond Interest rates are so low?

Billy86

jmayo wrote: »

If you are a citizen found to be returning from being with a fundamentalist terrorist organisation in overseas country then your passport is confiscated and you are deported back to that country to either stay with your terrorist friends or face the wrath of that states government if they are fighting those same terrorists.

e.g if you have been found to be fighting with ISIS in Syria you are sent on plane to Damascus and Assad's guys will deal with you.
If you make your bed with the likes of ISIS then shag you.

Sorry, but that would never hold up.

By that reckoning, if a Christian Kenyan went to the US to connect with the Army of God, then returned to Kenya and killed a bunch of non-Christians, the Kenyan government could just opt to deport him to the USA for their taxpayers to cover it without them having a say in the matter.

Likewise, if a white Frenchman had gone to Idaho to hang out with the Aryan Nations, then returned to France to kill a bunch of non-white people, the exact same could be done.

As you well know, neither would happen either. The country they are being deported to would need to accept them, which simply would not happen.

BTW why are you asking me this in response to fact you just listed out the few right winger famous terrorists.

Because my initial post was in response to Mr. Incognito's pointing out to Mary63 that all of the attackers she had listed were nationals of that country, and so her claim of "if they want a way of life that is incompatible with Western values then off they go, I will hold the door open for them myself" didn't add up.

If someone is a born citizen of a country it is not as easy as saying 'you must leave now' if you do not have another country on the other end willing to take them.

Laois_Man

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

I have to laugh your ignorance

in the article



Do you know why Irish bond Interest rates are so low?

Now what are you talking about. We paid in £170 Million more than we got. That'swhat I said. And after the Brits are gone, that number will increase substantially.

You also appear to be making the mistake of assuming an EU collapse would result in the complete abandoning of the ESM. Why would any member state (including the 4 who are not in the EU) ever do that

darkpagandeath

Why do these always go the same way. You could almost just put a sticky up in AH

Terrorist attack.. Well it's not everyone..

White nut job... See See Christians ??

maryishere

open_minded wrote: »

Like a previous poster said, Islam is deeply embedded into France.

Approx 10% of their population of 60 million are Muslim.

And it will not be long before it is 25%, enshallah. Eventually the unbelievers will be in the minority.

Grayson

A Little Pony wrote: »

Rarely will you find many in Islam who support gay rights, female rights, Jewish rights and keeping Islam out of government.

Except all the ones that do.

maryishere

Grayson wrote: »

Except all the ones that do.

who are very much in the minority.

darkpagandeath

Grayson wrote: »

Except all the ones that do.

I would be interested to have a link to show support from a majority Muslim country from Muslims ? You know many people speaking out in support Government Religious leaders. My experience of the ME it's kept under wraps and let go on but not supported if found out to be getting to much traction. I know of a few Muslim countries that turn a blind eye. But not what it's been reported.

BlinkingLights

maryishere wrote: »

And it will not be long before it is 25%, enshallah. Eventually the unbelievers will be in the minority.

It depends on the source - France doesn't gather official stats on religion in census as it's regarded as not the state's business.

2-8% Muslim but 63% non religious according to some surveys.

6-8% is probably accurate.

Jelle1880

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why do these always go the same way. You could almost just put a sticky up in AH

Terrorist attack.. Well it's not everyone..

White nut job... See See Christians ??

Maybe it's because when something like in Quebec happens it's always 'GEE I WONDER IF IT'S A MUSLIM' and then when it turns out it isn't there's silence from the same people.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

A Little Pony wrote: »

Rarely will you find many in Islam who support gay rights, female rights, Jewish rights and keeping Islam out of government.

Pretty much every Muslim I know support most, if not all of the above.

I was friends with a gay Muslim.

darkpagandeath

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Maybe it's because when something like in Quebec happens it's always 'GEE I WONDER IF IT'S A MUSLIM' and then when it turns out it isn't there's silence from the same people.

What people ? You mean if fox lied they did ? Yet the jumps to Trump still got traction when la pen and others were in his feed.

darkpagandeath

Duncan Substantial Voyage wrote: »

Pretty much every Muslim I know support most, if not all of the above.

I was friends with a gay Muslim.

That's great when did he/she come out in the mosque or his/her family ? I mean you are saying he is openly gay yes or she ?

maryishere

And when muslims get a majority...how much support -or even tolerance- is there for " gay rights, female rights, Jewish rights and keeping Islam out of government." in muslim majority countries?

Billy86

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What people ? You mean if fox lied they did ? Yet the jumps to Trump still got traction when la pen and others were in his feed.

Le Pen got mentioned on numerous occasions in that thread, you actually even thanked a post that said "From what I can see it's Le Pen that inspired him no?" - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102463977&postcount=200

maryishere

BlinkingLights wrote: »

It depends on the source - France doesn't gather official stats on religion in census as it's regarded as not the state's business.

According to Jean-Paul Gourévitch (fr), there were 7.7 million Muslims( about 11 percent of the population) in metropolitan France in 2011. No doubt its higher now ....due to further immigration and high birthrate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France

222233

Well done to the soldiers for such a quick response, irrespective of whether he was a terrorist or not there is no reason for a tourist or citizen to walk around yielding a weapon.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That's great when did he/she come out in the mosque or his/her family ? I mean you are saying he is openly gay yes or she ?

I'd highly doubt it since it's illegal in his home country. It's nice that he can now live in a country where he can express his sexuality a little more freely, but he's more wary now of his religion and how westerners view him.

Timberrrrrrrr

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That's great when did he/she come out in the mosque or his/her family ? I mean you are saying he is openly gay yes or she ?

How.many Catholics will go to.church this week, stand up in front.of the congregation and announce that they are gay?

fullstop

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It definitely increased in scale, but it's not a new phenomenon.

Especially near big tourist areas like in this case.

It's completely different to anything before. I was in Paris a few weeks ago and every shopping centre, even in the suburbs had security screening on the way in, armed police and army walking the corridors. They had around the Eiffel tower cordoned off with security checks before you can get to the tower itself, armed patrols everywhere. This is not how it used to be.

Mary63

Didn't a cathoilc priest stand up this week and announce he was gay.

IM bored anyway with the whole gay thing, I really don't know or care what sexuality you are, we get it by now.

Our State has enacted laws to protect the rights of gay people so it doesn't matter what the Church, any church says so anyone of a muslim way of thinking isn't going to have their beliefs on gay people respected in this country.They will impose their beliefs on the way women should dress, i.e. send their girls to school in the head covering and so far we haven't said no head or face coverings.If the majority in a democracy want no head or face covering as is the situation in France then muslim people either stay here and accept this or they move to a muslim country whose laws reflect their beliefs.This means moving back to the sixteenth century and the caliphate wannabes don't want this, the murderous rage then takes over and the cowards then go out with rifles to shoot people who have no means of defending themselves.

The ordinary decent Muslim doesn't make much of a protest so its hard to find sympathy when they are discommoded at airports, to me its a case of reporting these fanatics to the authorities or else risk being banned when you want to travel because why should the West risk letting masses of potential radicalised nuts in among genuine travellers if the genuine travellers aren't helping the West to deal with the risk the radical ones pose.

Paris has been destroyed, its no longer a place where you feel safe, there are millions of Muslims in France so impossible to deal with the risk.There is a very big Muslim population near Nice too so not safe anymore to go there either.This is the future of all of Europe if we don't stop pussyfooting around with the PC stuff,do you think for a nano second any Muslim is going to respect the rights of women or the rights of homosexuals when their numbers are higher than their host populations.I really don't want to be around in a hundred years time when the balance tips in their favour.