Avatar 2

Kirby

Lads....you are surprised that a movie that grossed 2.7 billion dollars is getting a sequel. In today's cinematic climate? Seriously? :P

If the studio had had their way, we would be on Avatar 17 by now.

pixelburp

Box office success spawning sequels is hardly a modern invention; but nor is it the only metric either in whether more films get greenlit. Batman V. Superman did gangbusters - Suicide Squad more-so - but the critical backlash against both films has caused DC to rejig one film (Justice League), while the rest of the franchise finds itself in course correction.

Avatar made minor waves in the cultural climate at the time (remember those cynically hyperbolic articles over audiences feeling depressed that they couldn't return to Pandora? :rolleyes:), but I daresay the studio looked at the audience / critical reception and didn't see franchise material. Heck the movie itself didn't even end with the tease of a more.

If anything, other studios could learn from Avatar, and stop trying to kickstart franchises before they've earned the success & right to do so (eg, Sony & their Spider Man universe, or the two attempts by Universal at their 'Dark Universe')

2smiggy

I really enjoyed Avatar, so am looking forward to the second on, even if it's 2 years away !

Just looked alita: battle angel , I had not heard of that, must say looks interesting , and only a few months away from release !!

nix

Kirby wrote: »

Lads....you are surprised that a movie that grossed 2.7 billion dollars is getting a sequel. In today's cinematic climate? Seriously? :P

If the studio had had their way, we would be on Avatar 17 by now.

Well i mean at this later stage (nearly 10 years since now) and the story wrapped up the way that it was, not financially obviously :P

Zubeneschamali

nix wrote: »

at this later stage (nearly 10 years since now)

Easliy explained: Cameron that instead of CGI, he would take a crew and film it in live action. 4 years to Alpha Centauri, and 4 years more back.

Sad Professor

Avatar 2-5 delayed again.

Avatar 2 has been delayed 1 year to Dec 2021 and Avatar 3 has been delayed 2 years to Dec 2023. 4-5 have also been delayed but it's up in the air as to whether they'll actually happen or not.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/three-new-star-wars-films-get-release-dates-disney-1208352

Slydice

Wiki says filming started on 2 and 3 in 2017!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_2

Shedloads of cash must've been poured in already.

They're hardly stopping that train.

At a guess, I'd say Cameron must had eye'd up some fancy new tech he wants to use.

pixelburp

I keep forgetting this is another Disney property now. If this thing gains any kind of traction it may yet be another pillar in their global domination...

speedboatchase

pixelburp wrote: »

I keep forgetting this is another Disney property now. If this thing gains any kind of traction it may yet be another pillar in their global domination...

It is/was the biggest movie of all time for 10 years! It has its own themed area in Disneyland! It IS a pillar of Disney now, hence December will alternate between Star Wars and Disney movies.

I find it amazing how much everyone underestimated the success of Titanic and Avatar before their release, but somehow it's happening all over again with Avatar 2. This thing is grossing over $2 billion easily in 2021 and people will be 'shocked' all over again.

Dades

Slydice wrote: »

At a guess, I'd say Cameron must had eye'd up some fancy new tech he wants to use.

I've waited 10 years. I can wait a couple more if there's something worth waiting for.

pixelburp

speedboatchase wrote: »

It is/was the biggest movie of all time for 10 years! It has its own themed area in Disneyland! It IS a pillar of Disney now, hence December will alternate between Star Wars and Disney movies.

I find it amazing how much everyone underestimated the success of Titanic and Avatar before their release, but somehow it's happening all over again with Avatar 2. This thing is grossing over $2 billion easily in 2021 and people will be 'shocked' all over again.

One film doesn't make a franchise; it's not exactly outrageous to curl an eyebrow over a film that made a brief cultural splash (see: Pandora "depression"), then pretty much disappeared from the zeitgeist entirely. it was an advertisement for competent 3D, itself a fad now disappearing into irrelevance. Show me the fandom kicking down the doors for a sequel, the healthy fan/official fiction spin-offs, art work or anything that points to Pandora being some untapped pop-culture icon.

'Disney' isn't some automatic seal of success, and including Avatar as a new area in Disneyland was certainly a strange enough decision; the Haunted Mansion is a popular mainstay of Disneyland but as much as Disney wanted to make it another Pirates... style success, it wasn't.

edit: I realise I'm pretty much repeating myself from a few posts back, lol

Oafley Jones

It's worth noting that Pandora in Disney World (Disneyland is in California) was a knee jerk reaction from Iger, to Universal Orlando's massive success with their Potterland. Disney needed something to counter the buzz, latched onto Avatar, announced it and then spent six long years building a cut down version of what they pitched with Cameron.

Dades

You'd have to think though with the might of marketing behind it the next Avatar would become another event movie.

Other movies may have ruined 3D since, but that doesn't mean it can't be done right again with the added benefits of 10 years of development. It won't take long to get people excited again for a sequel to what will probably still be the biggest movie of all time. Especially with Cameron at the helm to assure the quality.

It only needs to make a billion and sure everything's making that these day!

El Duda

Pretty sure the tech Cameron is waiting on is glasses free 3D.

You can't write off Cameron but there really is no appetitie for more Avatar films.

speedboatchase

pixelburp wrote: »

One film doesn't make a franchise; it's not exactly outrageous to curl an eyebrow over a film that made a brief cultural splash (see: Pandora "depression"), then pretty much disappeared from the zeitgeist entirely. it was an advertisement for competent 3D, itself a fad now disappearing into irrelevance. Show me the fandom kicking down the doors for a sequel, the healthy fan/official fiction spin-offs, art work or anything that points to Pandora being some untapped pop-culture icon.

'Disney' isn't some automatic seal of success, and including Avatar as a new area in Disneyland was certainly a strange enough decision; the Haunted Mansion is a popular mainstay of Disneyland but as much as Disney wanted to make it another Pirates... style success, it wasn't.

edit: I realise I'm pretty much repeating myself from a few posts back, lol

First off, let’s see how long it takes Warner Bros to move their Aquaman 2 release date for 2022 to avoid Avatar 2.

While I agree with your points regarding lack of fandom/legacy, I don’t think they will matter as much as you think. How far do you expect it to fall from the original’s $2.8bn, especially considering the amount of Chinese cinemas built from 2009-2021?

I think it’s making at least $2bn worldwide, with at least 60% coming from outside the US. Non-Western audiences will turn up for an Avatar sequel and Western sci-fi fans won’t miss the first James Cameron movie for 11 years.

Dades

El Duda wrote: »

You can't write off Cameron but there really is no appetitie for more Avatar films.

That's your assertion.

The Incredibles 2 just made $608m. Who was shouting for another one 14 years after the original?

Add $100m for marketing and cinemagoers clamouring for something different after 526 MCU films, and there's an audience to found. There's nearly a new generation of cinema goers who would have been too young to see Avatar in the cinema who are ready to see Pandora for the first time.

Oafley Jones

Dades wrote: »

That's your assertion.

The Incredibles 2 just made $608m. Who was shouting for another one 14 years after the original?

Add $100m for marketing and cinemagoers clamouring for something different after 526 MCU films, and there's an audience to found. There's nearly a new generation of cinema goers who would have been too young to see Avatar in the cinema who are ready to see Pandora for the first time.

You’re kidding. Tons of people were clamouring for an Incredibles 2. The original is one of the great superhero movies, which people fondly remember. Whereas Avatar has almost zero cultural impact. It was the biggest movie in the world (not adjusted for inflation) and then it essentially disappeared. People disowned it, or dismissed it as this technological curio.

I also feel I2 numbers were soft and it was just overall a bad idea to revisit it. Having said that, I’d never bet against Cameron.

pixelburp

Dades wrote: »

That's your assertion.

The Incredibles 2 just made $608m. Who was shouting for another one 14 years after the original?

Apart from 'everyone'? It was literally an ongoing question Brad Bird was asked since 2004, not to mention frequently popping up on various clickbait, top 10 lists ala "Best films without a sequel" and whatnot. The absence of an Incredibles sequel in the face of Pixar giving Cars not 1 but 2 follow-ups always stuck in peoples' craw.

I'm asserting Avatar is a bad movie, it's not; it's massively derivative when you strip back the then cutting edge FX, but I don't seriously give credence that there's this huge market waiting to be tapped. Nor do I buy into this idea that what Disney says, goes.

We're not that far removed from the era of The Black Cauldron, or Treasure Planet. They don't necessarily learn from their mistakes.

Oafley Jones

Incredibles 2 was essentially the cinematic equivalent of Half life 3. Except they made it.

Oafley Jones

Another factor worth examining is that of merchandising. Avatar sold **** all. Kids weren’t buying Jake Scully dolls. From what I hear Pandora isn’t selling that much either, despite a few interesting bits (the shoulder dragon puppet thingys). I fully expect all those dollars to go the Galaxy’s Edge in few months time.

Dades

pixelburp wrote: »

Apart from 'everyone'? It was literally an ongoing question Brad Bird was asked since 2004, not to mention frequently popping up on various clickbait, top 10 lists ala "Best films without a sequel" and whatnot. The absence of an Incredibles sequel in the face of Pixar giving Cars not 1 but 2 follow-ups always stuck in peoples' craw.

If it wasn't obvious, the love for The Incredibles passed me by!

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm asserting Avatar is a bad movie, it's not; it's massively derivative when you strip back the then cutting edge FX, but I don't seriously give credence that there's this huge market waiting to be tapped. Nor do I buy into this idea that what Disney says, goes.

The second Avatar will be at least 13 years later, which means it's not relying solely on the original audience to fill the coffers. New cinemagoers, in more theatres, in more regions of the world are always hungry for an event movie. Even if you were a toddler when the first movie came out, or you watched it first on a cheap Bangkok market DVD, a new, big budget Cameron blockbuster is going to generate buzz.

You don't have to have pre-fluffed audience to green-light a movie (sequel or not). It can be a success on its own merits. A lot of 2009 viewers might shrug at the thought of a sequel but when the marketing machine gets into top gear, or a really good trailer drops, then we'll see how much interest there is.

Sad Professor

The marketing will be insane. They'll spend a fortune on it. With 3 more movies in the pipeline, the first sequel cannot be allowed to fail.

pixelburp

Dades wrote: »

If it wasn't obvious, the love for The Incredibles passed me by!

You must have: it became louder and more curious as sequels for every other Disney-Pixar film were trotted out, with Bird (in)frequently asked if he had any plans or knowledge of an Incredibles sequel. It wasn't loud like the hype over a Marvel or Star Wars property might be, but it was there & consistent enough.

Dades wrote: »

The second Avatar will be at least 13 years later, which means it's not relying solely on the original audience to fill the coffers. New cinemagoers, in more theatres, in more regions of the world are always hungry for an event movie. Even if you were a toddler when the first movie came out, or you watched it first on a cheap Bangkok market DVD, a new, big budget Cameron blockbuster is going to generate buzz.

You don't have to have pre-fluffed audience to green-light a movie (sequel or not). It can be a success on its own merits. A lot of 2009 viewers might shrug at the thought of a sequel but when the marketing machine gets into top gear, or a really good trailer drops, then we'll see how much interest there is.

Well true, with the right marketing an Avatar sequel will probably hoover up the box-office in China as they seem much more inclined to ... ... uh, 'event cinema' (they have sh*te taste). I would debate though just how much buzz James Cameron has these days: honestly he seems pretty checked out of cinema, Avatar more of a technological itch he scratched than a story he wanted to tell.

I've questioned elsewhere as to the long term, legitimate interest audiences have in an extended Star Wars universe, and if I hold to that opinion I definitely would argue there's not necessarily an audience for Avatar 2 - not to the extent that might turn a profit against the presumed giant budget.

Obviously we'll see how it pans out, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the sequel was quietly pushed back.

Sad Professor

https://twitter.com/JimCameron/status/1126338232562716672

pixelburp

I had never heard of this custom before; that's kinda brilliant

Venom

pixelburp wrote: »

I've questioned elsewhere as to the long term, legitimate interest audiences have in an extended Star Wars universe, and if I hold to that opinion I definitely would argue there's not necessarily an audience for Avatar 2 - not to the extent that might turn a profit against the presumed giant budget.

Obviously we'll see how it pans out, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the sequel was quietly pushed back.

The idea of making an Avatar 2 kinda makes sense in a weird Hollywood way when you consider how lacking movie studios have become over the last decade when it comes to coming up an original idea for a movie and the continuing trend of reboots and sequels to established franchises.


But, I can't for the life of me grasp how the idea of making 4 sequels to a movie no ones asked for or seems in any way hyped about, that has zero pop culture relevance and only did crazy box office numbers due to being the first of the modern 3D movies gets greenlight.

astrofool

Venom wrote: »

But, I can't for the life of me grasp how the idea of making 4 sequels to a movie no ones asked for or seems in any way hyped about, that has zero pop culture relevance and only did crazy box office numbers due to being the first of the modern 3D movies gets greenlight.

Sometimes you just have to accept it when you can't grasp a concept such as making a sequel to a multi-billion dollar movie, furrowing your brow in a vain attempt to understand the situation.

johnny_ultimate

So I think Avatar is a fairly weak film, and I'd share skepticism about whether it can repeat its astonishing box office trick a second time. Avatar's success was largely down to it being a technological landmark (and its main cultural impact was spawning a few years of 3d dominance in multiplexes) and unless Cameron has something major up his sleeve that'll be hard to pull off a couple more times.

But I'd defend the right of Avatar 2+3 (+4+5) to exist on one key premise: James Cameron really, really wants to make these films. Unless he has been hugely disingenuous when talking about them over the past decade, these are the films he wants to make. Arguably only Cameron and Christopher Nolan get a blockbuster budget to do whatever they like: but this is the path Cameron has chosen. While I'm sure we'd have gotten Avatar sequels even if the filmmaker stepped away, that he's committing so many years of his life to these projects is pretty admirable.

My interest level in these sequels is low. However, while the fact that Avatar made all the money is clearly a motivating factor for follow-ups, it's also potentially the most expensive auteur project in the history of the medium. And that's sorta fascinating?

pixelburp

Production has picked back up on this, despite the pandemic; NZ apparently relaxed restrictions enough that various TV & Film shoots could restart. Cameron & producer Jon Landau arrived a couple of days ago. I dunno, just feels the wrong side of premature to me...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA1U8k9p1Al/

Sad Professor

Wearing masks and face shields outdoors in a country that has effectively eradicated the virus strikes me as rather silly. But I guess with all the money riding on this they have to reassure people that they are taking the necessary precautions.