Craniosacral Therapy?

Bradt Pitt

My wife and I recently had a baby and a number of friends recommended we bring her to a craniosacral therapist - someone who comes highly recommended.

However, a family member (who's a physiotherapist) says he would steer clear.

I'm just wondering if anybody has any experience of this type of therapy.
I'd love to hear any stories (positive or negative).

Thanks in advance

nikpmup

Go with your family members recommendations on this one, steer clear.

lazygal

Do not do it. It is an unregulated practice and who in their right mind would allow a non medical professional to manipulate their baby's bones. Stay right away, they are quacks. Babies have died after receiving this 'treatment'.


https://anaximperator.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/infant-dies-after-craniosacral-therapy/

I know it's a blog but spells out the dangers.

seamus

A "craniosacral therapist" has no medical qualifications and posseses no more skill or knowledge about anatomy than a palm reader.

I wouldn't let one near an adult, never mind performing "adjustments" on a newborn child. Someone who performs this on babies should be arrested for child endangerment.

If your child appears to have a problem with something, go see a peadiatrician, otherwise leave it the hell alone.

Bradt Pitt

Thanks for the replies - ok we'll avoid. Much appreciated

mordeith

Bradt Pitt wrote: »

Thanks for the replies - ok we'll avoid. Much appreciated

We had the opposite experience. We went to a French cranio therapist. It's regulated there AFAIK. She really helped our first boy. He was a vacuum birth and couldn't lie on the left side of his head. Day after therapy he could. There was no mumbo jumbo attached. Some go on about rebirthing and stuff but none of that with ours.

Orion

And just maybe he would have been able to without this nonsense too.

@OP - your family member is right. If there's a problem go to a doctor rather than this dangerous practice. There's a reason things like this are called alternative medicine - if it worked it would just be called medicine.

mordeith

Orion wrote: »

And just maybe he would have been able to without this nonsense too.

Well be didn't for the two and half weeks before he went. I'm not saying its some miracle cure but we noticed a definite improvement in his overall demeanor. I'm not some homeopathic loving hippy either

Orion

Don't get me started on homeopathy

Blingy

We found it a great help for our little baby at the time. Research and make the decision yourself.

shesty

Is that the same thing as osteopathy? We brought our second to an osteopath a couple of times. Can't say it was either good or bad really.

endacl

Orion wrote: »

Don't get me started on homeopathy

I drink several large glasses of homeopathy every day. It's certainly prevented me dying of dehydration so far. Don't knock it!

pwurple

Children's skull bones have not fused. There is potential for brain damage if you let anyone "adjust" a babies skull.

I wouldn't let a cranial adjuster of any description near mine. Can't understand why people take that risk with babies, it's their brain ffs.

mordeith

pwurple wrote: »

Children's skull bones have not fused. There is potential for brain damage if you let anyone "adjust" a babies skull.

I wouldn't let a cranial adjuster of any description near mine. Can't understand why people take that risk with babies, it's their brain ffs.

I observed the sessions with our son and the therapist barely touches the head. They're certainly not mangling then. I also saw my son's head after the consultant took the vacuum off him during delivery. He looked like one of the cone heads! His head was bruised for days afterwards. That was definite trauma.

pwurple

mordeith wrote: »

I observed the sessions with our son and the therapist barely touches the head. They're certainly not mangling then. I also saw my son's head after the consultant took the vacuum off him during delivery. He looked like one of the cone heads! His head was bruised for days afterwards. That was definite trauma.

Delivery is why their bones are not fused. All babies look a bit like coneheads when born. They're not doing the vacuum for the craic, there's a bit of logic behind the emergency rescue of a struggling baby.

Unless your cranial adjuster is passing the baby through a vagina, it's really not the same thing.

Here are a few links.
This one is a 2 day old baby killed by a cranial osteopath...
http://www.casewatch.org/board/dent/kerwin/order_2012.pdf

And this one is a 30 year old woman killed by a blood clot on the brain caused by 'adjustments'.
http://www.chirobase.org/16Victims/gallagher.html

Even bog standard osteopaths think it's dangerous junk.
You can read it here:
http://faculty.une.edu/com/shartman/sram.pdf
Two professors at the University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine concluded:

"Our own and previously published findings suggest that the proposed mechanism for cranial osteopathy is invalid and that interexaminer (and, therefore, diagnostic) reliability is approximately zero. Since no properly randomized, blinded, and placebo-controlled outcome studies have been published, we conclude that cranial osteopathy should be removed from curricula of colleges of osteopathic medicine and from osteopathic licensing examinations"

mordeith

pwurple wrote: »

Delivery is why their bones are not fused. All babies look a bit like coneheads when born. They're not doing the vacuum for the craic, there's a bit of logic behind the emergency rescue of a struggling baby.

Unless your cranial adjuster is passing the baby through a vagina, it's really not the same thing.

Here are a few links.
This one is a 2 day old baby killed by a cranial osteopath...
http://www.casewatch.org/board/dent/kerwin/order_2012.pdf

And this one is a 30 year old woman killed by a blood clot on the brain caused by 'adjustments'.
http://www.chirobase.org/16Victims/gallagher.html

Even bog standard osteopaths think it's dangerous junk.
You can read it here:
http://faculty.une.edu/com/shartman/sram.pdf
Two professors at the University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine concluded:

"Our own and previously published findings suggest that the proposed mechanism for cranial osteopathy is invalid and that interexaminer (and, therefore, diagnostic) reliability is approximately zero. Since no properly randomized, blinded, and placebo-controlled outcome studies have been published, we conclude that cranial osteopathy should be removed from curricula of colleges of osteopathic medicine and from osteopathic licensing examinations"

Of course they are not doing it for the craic and without intervention perhaps mother and baby might have died. That's not to say it's a method that doesn't result in damage to the child. Linking to a few cases doesn't indicate it is an inherently dangerous practice either. If it did I could link to all the cases of hospital care where babies have died or suffered brain damage from bad practice

MountainAshIRL

I have used osteopaths several times, not for carniosacral, I think people use this term mistakenly instead of osteopath!
The osteopath I go to is extremely knowledgable, the first consultation consists of at least 40 mins of questioning on health, medical issues, family medical history.
Just because something is not licensed here does not mean it is ****, you just need to be extremely careful about who you see. It's licensed, reglualted and prescribed in many other countries with a far better public health system than ours.
Also how can anyone say something does or doesn't work when there has been no trials? No trials does not equal doesn't work!! Trials and publishing work is an extremely expensive process!

xzanti

I'm not getting into arguements with anyone on this thread, as I've been down that road.

For a start it has nothing to do with Homeopathy.

I took my son for Cranial work when he was 5 weeks old. He was inconsolable with colic and other pains resulting from an emergency C section.

It worked wonders for him. The therapy was very gentle. He enjoyed it. He was a different child after 2 sessions.

I'm expecting again and I will be taking my new baby for the same treatment.

Neyite

xzanti wrote: »

I'm not getting into arguements with anyone on this thread, as I've been down that road.

For a start it has nothing to do with Homeopathy.

I took my son for Cranial work when he was 5 weeks old. He was inconsolable with colic and other pains resulting from an emergency C section.

It worked wonders for him. The therapy was very gentle. He enjoyed it. He was a different child after 2 sessions.

I'm expecting again and I will be taking my new baby for the same treatment.

How do you know if the baby you are currently expecting will need cranial treatment?

endacl

Neyite wrote: »

How do you know if the baby you are currently expecting will need cranial treatment?

Or that the last one did. I had a cold a few weeks ago. Nothing would shift it. One of 'those' colds. Man flu, according to some. Anyway, I took a notion to buy a box of crunchy nut cornflakes for some reason. Don't know why. Just felt like it. Hadn't had them in years. I polished off the whole box in one sitting, and the next day my cold had cleared up. Cured. By a slightly oversweetened breakfast snack. Or... maybe... ?

My cold, just ... got better?

endacl

MountainAshIRL wrote: »

Also how can anyone say something does or doesn't work when there has been no trials? No trials does not equal doesn't work!! Trials and publishing work is an extremely expensive process!

It sure is. But it's worth it to have a treatment approved for use. Which is all beside the point really. There have been trials.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0052336/

From a review of those trials carried out...

"This review of randomised trials found insufficient evidence to support any specific therapeutic effect of craniosacral therapy. The review had some methodological and reporting weaknesses but the authors' conclusions reflect the limitations of the evidence and are likely to be reliable."

https://www.painscience.com/articles/craniosacral-therapy.php

"Craniosacral therapy lacks a biologically plausible mechanism, shows no diagnostic reliability, and offers little hope that any direct clinical effect will ever be shown."

http://www.behavior.org/resources/589.pdf

xzanti

endacl wrote: »

Or that the last one did. I had a cold a few weeks ago. Nothing would shift it. One of 'those' colds. Man flu, according to some. Anyway, I took a notion to buy a box of crunchy nut cornflakes for some reason. Don't know why. Just felt like it. Hadn't had them in years. I polished off the whole box in one sitting, and the next day my cold had cleared up. Cured. By a slightly oversweetened breakfast snack. Or... maybe... ?

My cold, just ... got better?

A cold is a bit different

He was rigid with pain from the time we got him home from the hospial. We found it impossible to comfort him. Tried all the infacol etc. Asked the PHN. Nobody could help us.

Someone on Boards suggested Cranial Ostopathy, I had never heard of it.

Did some reading on it and decided to give it a try.

From the first visit he was a much more relaxed and well adjusted baby. After the second visit, his cry had turned from a blood curdling scream to a normal baby whinge, and he very rarely cried at all from then on. He was a happy baby.

I respect other people's objective views, but they don't know my Son. They weren't present through our journey in his first few weeks.

I will be having a c section on my second baby, so I am expecting there to be similar issues. Of course, if I don't think it's necessary, then I won't go taking them. My point is, I wouldn't hesitate to bring another child for the treatment.

Here's the original thread about my son.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056147928

xzanti

pwurple wrote: »

Here are a few links.
This one is a 2 day old baby killed by a cranial osteopath...
http://www.casewatch.org/board/dent/kerwin/order_2012.pdf

"

Ah that old chestnut.

That was gross malpractice. The baby should have been taken to the Hospital with such a high fever. Also, he was a Dentist

Craniosacral practitioner has license revoked. The Missouri Court of Appeals has upheld the state dental board's 2009 decision to revoke the license of Joseph H. Kerwin, D.D.S. The board's order indicates that Kerwin was consulted by the parents of a 2-day-old Amish infant with a fever of 103°9F and noted that the child had signs of birth trauma. Instead of advising the parents to go immediately to a hospital, Kerwin manipulated the child's skull and applied a vibrating machine to his sacrum. The boy died 12 hours later, and the autopsy showed that he died from complications of a subdural hematoma (a blood clot that compressed his brain). The medical examiner concluded that the hematoma could have been present at birth but was more likely caused by the skull manipulation. The dental board concluded that Kerwin had acted outside the scope of dentistry. During its investigation, the board also discovered that Kerwin had misrepresented his continuing education hours when renewing for his license.

laserlad2010

I just can't understand it.

I am a Paediatric doctor, and I've seen some absolute nonsense spouted by parents.

Craniosacral therapy could possibly take the biscuit.

It simply doesn't work. Whatever benefit you may or may not have seen was either your own brain making it up or the passage of time.

I'm sure responses to this will refer to "doctors don't know everything" or "what about all of your own mistakes" but serious questions about suitability for parenthood if you question mainstream health advice and favour homeopathy/water births/no vaccinations/craniosacral therapy/whatever you're having yourself

xzanti

I'd also like to point out, that the practioner whom I took my son to, is 19 years doing what he does, and his clinic in Dublin has been open for 12 years. Not a single fatality at his hands.

Obviously, you would not just rock up to any Tom, Dick or Harry who claims to be an osteopath. You would do your homework and find someone reputable.

xzanti

laserlad2010 wrote: »

I just can't understand it.

I am a Paediatric doctor, and I've seen some absolute nonsense spouted by parents.

Craniosacral therapy could possibly take the biscuit.

It simply doesn't work. Whatever benefit you may or may not have seen was either your own brain making it up or the passage of time.

I'm sure responses to this will refer to "doctors don't know everything" or "what about all of your own mistakes" but serious questions about suitability for parenthood if you question mainstream health advice and favour homeopathy/water births/no vaccinations/craniosacral therapy/whatever you're having yourself

I'm glad you're not my Doctor with that attitude towards your patients.

Since when is waterbirth "spouted nonsense"?

Don't they have waterbirth suites in the Hospitals?

Also, comparing cranial osteopathy to refusing vaccines??? Really??

mordeith

laserlad2010 wrote: »

but serious questions about suitability for parenthood if you question mainstream health advice

I'm sure all the symphysiotomy women are delighted they followed the mainstream advice from their doctors.
Lumping non vaccinations in with water birthing is ridiculous.

xzanti

laserlad2010 wrote: »

but serious questions about suitability for parenthood if you question mainstream health advice and favour homeopathy/water births/no vaccinations/craniosacral therapy/whatever you're having yourself

What advice? We got zero advice from our Doctor or Public Health Nurse when he was suffering, other than, get some infacol. We were told it would pass. In other words, leave him ride it out, that's life.

Best thing I ever did taking him to that clinic.

endacl

xzanti wrote: »

Since when is waterbirth "spouted nonsense"?

Sometimes the puns just write themselves...

seamus

xzanti wrote: »

Obviously, you would not just rock up to any Tom, Dick or Harry who claims to be an osteopath. You would do your homework and find someone reputable.

Of course, any Tom, Dick or Harry can claim to be an osteopath and can claim to have been one for 20 years if they like, and can put 100 fake customer references on their website, nobody can stop them.

Aside from the unproven nature of what they do, reputation, qualifications and experience are meaningless. You will hear people swear blind by specific homeopaths, that others are rubbish.

Where there is no proven methodology or science behind it, a practitioner's reputation is meaningless; there is no objective measure by which you can say Tom is better than Dick. Someone being a "good" practitioner is 80% personality and 20% blind luck.

endacl

seamus wrote: »

Of course, any Tom, Dick or Harry can claim to be an osteopath and can claim to have been one for 20 years if they like, and can put 100 fake customer references on their website, nobody can stop them.

Aside from the unproven nature of what they do, reputation, qualifications and experience are meaningless. You will hear people swear blind by specific homeopaths, that others are rubbish.

Where there is no proven methodology or science behind it, a practitioner's reputation is meaningless; there is no objective measure by which you can say Tom is better than Dick. Someone being a "good" practitioner is 80% personality and 20% blind luck faith.

Better.