Why motorcycles are unpopular in western countries

Johnboner

Very few motorcycles on the roads just don't understand why. After I started riding a bike I knew pretty soon that it was one of the best decisions I have made and I don't even want to look at the car anymore and dread any time I have to drive it.
1. Much faster than a car and avoid all congestions, I cut my commute time from 1.30-2 hours to 40-50 min maximum no matter the traffic or conditions.
2. It's much more fun and relaxing, I am actually looking forward to riding a bike as it makes me relax and busy at the same time, while sitting in a car just makes you impatient, bored and puts you in a bad mood.
3. Price - even the biggest bikes cost pennies compared to cars lowest end cars, tax is €88 for over 250cc and insurance is much cheaper.


Cons
Weather - I don't find it a problem as even cheap waterproof clothing protects you 99% of the time.
Safety - sure but if there were more riders, there would be more awareness? Maybe a bad thing after all since I bet government would want to cash in and create nct and other charges.


Apparently only 2% of vehicles are bikes in this country so why is the number so low? Am I missing something? Commuting in Dublin and you don't see many bikes at all except for couriers.

Samuel T. Cogley

Johnboner meet average Irish motorist, on their phone not looking where they're going. Average motorist meet...

Oh you've already missed him turning and killed him.

Sorry meant to add (to give it some relevance albeit anecdotal) bikes scare the living crap out of me.

Del2005

Johnboner wrote: »

Very few motorcycles on the roads just don't understand why. After I started riding a bike I knew pretty soon that it was one of the best decisions I have made and I don't even want to look at the car anymore and dread any time I have to drive it.
1. Much faster than a car and avoid all congestions, I cut my commute time from 1.30-2 hours to 40-50 min maximum no matter the traffic or conditions.
2. It's much more fun and relaxing, I am actually looking forward to riding a bike as it makes me relax and busy at the same time, while sitting in a car just makes you impatient, bored and puts you in a bad mood.
3. Price - even the biggest bikes cost pennies compared to cars lowest end cars, tax is €88 for over 250cc and insurance is much cheaper.


Cons
Weather - I don't find it a problem as even cheap waterproof clothing protects you 99% of the time.
Safety - sure but if there were more riders, there would be more awareness? Maybe a bad thing after all since I bet government would want to cash in and create nct and other charges.


Apparently only 2% of vehicles are bikes in this country so why is the number so low? Am I missing something? Commuting in Dublin and you don't see many bikes at all except for couriers.

I thing you are confusing a small country with a problem to a continent without a problem. Go to any European city and you'll see that motorbikes aren't unpopular. Everyone from teenagers to grannies are belting around on scooters or mopeds.

The problem in Ireland, and UK, was that we never had the continental law which allowed 14 year old's on the road, with no licence or insurance till recently, on mopeds so we the majority of Irish people went straight for a car as their 1st mode of transport, not helped by our silly licencing laws, while are mainland cousins had bikes.

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Johnboner meet average Irish motorist, on their phone not looking where they're going. Average motorist meet...

Oh you've already missed him turning and killed him.

Sorry meant to add (to give it some relevance albeit anecdotal) bikes scare the living crap out of me.

I was amazed at the difference between Irish car drivers and French car drivers around bikes. In France they'll pull over at every opportunity to let a bike past. We where stuck in gridlocked traffic in the middle of LeMans in 40C heat so decided to do a bit of cheeky filtering to get clear, it was like Mosses parting the waters as cars on both sides moved aside to let us pass. The average Irish motorist makes sure that no one gets past.

Johnboner

Del2005 wrote: »

I thing you are confusing a small country with a problem to a continent without a problem. Go to any European city and you'll see that motorbikes aren't unpopular. Everyone from teenagers to grannies are belting around on scooters or mopeds.

The problem in Ireland, and UK, was that we never had the continental law which allowed 14 year old's on the road, with no licence or insurance till recently, on mopeds so we the majority of Irish people went straight for a car as their 1st mode of transport, not helped by our silly licencing laws, while are mainland cousins had bikes.




I was amazed at the difference between Irish car drivers and French car drivers around bikes. In France they'll pull over at every opportunity to let a bike past. We where stuck in gridlocked traffic in the middle of LeMans in 40C heat so decided to do a bit of cheeky filtering to get clear, it was like Mosses parting the waters as cars on both sides moved aside to let us pass. The average Irish motorist makes sure that no one gets past.

True about the second part as I was filtering on the right, a bmw driver from the other side decides to swerve into me and pass me by a few cm in order to ''teach me a lesson'' I could see him sbouting and flailing his arms inside the car like I was doing something illegal.

longshanks

The weather.

Hotblack Desiato

The weather here is a lot better for biking than in many countries where snow/ice can keep bikes off the road for months.

stewygriffin

Well Donald Trump loves em.
He recently had the HD top heads with their bikes on the front lawn of the white house recently.
Murican jobs and all that.:pac:


With regards to Irish motorists and motorbikes,dont get me started....:mad::mad:

stewygriffin

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The weather here is a lot better for biking than in many countries where snow/ice can keep bikes off the road for months.

Yeah that be terrible allright...:pac::D

I'd say it's because of cost and age you can ride. In places like Spain and Italy you can ride mopeds when you are 14 and I'm sure the insurance is cheap, weather is lovely and obviously once you like bikes you will keep getting them as you get older. I would hazard a guess bikes in general are cheaper and cheaper to run in these countries.

In Ireland and the UK I think alot of people on the roads on bikes have little interest in them and would use them simply to commute. We don't have the same culture as they do on the continent regarding bike ownership.

Obviously there are exceptions, most people on here and other enthusiast websites but in the main I don't think most owners have any real interest. Over in other European countries it's in their blood.

Hotblack Desiato

Keenan Fluffy Teacher wrote: »

In Ireland and the UK I think alot of people on the roads on bikes have little interest in them and would use them simply to commute. We don't have the same culture as they do on the continent regarding bike ownership.

Doesn't make any sense. The expense, difficulty, familial disapproval etc. of running a medium or large bike here means riders are more likely to be enthusiasts. And we have a greater proportion of large bikes than the UK never mind Spain etc. where mopeds are almost everywhere.

It's the scooter and moped riders imho who are more likely to be doing it just because they have to and may only stick with it for a few years until they get a car, change job etc. and the time saved on two wheels isn't worth the hassle for them any more.

Lyle Lanley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Johnboner meet average Irish motorist, on their phone not looking where they're going. Average motorist meet...

Oh you've already missed him turning and killed him.

Sorry meant to add (to give it some relevance albeit anecdotal) bikes scare the living crap out of me.

The average Thai or Indian motorist is worse yet motorbikes are everywhere.

beauf

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

The average Thai or Indian motorist is worse yet motorbikes are everywhere.

The frequency of traffic collisions in India is amongst the highest in the world. A National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) report revealed that every year, more than 135,000 traffic collision-related deaths occur in India.[1]

A lack of key safety standards and poor enforcement of laws already on the books have combined to give Thailand the second-highest road fatality rate in the world, according to a new World Health Organization (WHO) survey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate


Trying to compare completely disparate countries is entirely meaningless.

username2013

I remember been at St Vincent's hospital one day for a check up on a bone I had had cast. I was talking to a fella in the waiting room who had his 2 wrists in casts. He had been on his motorcycle going through Ranelagh one day and without warning the car in front of him suddenly braked. He braked but went right over the handlebars through the back window breaking his wrists. It's things like this that make me never want to have a motorbike, no protection and so many bad drivers on the road. If this had happened in a car, there would be a minor collision. As it was that guy has been out of work for 6 weeks already. Way too risky for me.

beauf

Johnboner wrote: »

...
Apparently only 2% of vehicles are bikes in this country so why is the number so low? Am I missing something?...

The rest of the statistics.

Motorcyclists are over-represented in collision statistics in Ireland: they represent less than 2% of licensed vehicles but 10% of road deaths. They are six times more likely to be killed on Irish roads than any other road user.

. According to OECD figures, a motorcyclist is two to three times more likely to be killed in Ireland than in other European country.

Mainly I'd say its the weather, or the perception of bad weather.

Lyle Lanley

beauf wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate


Trying to compare completely disparate countries is entirely meaningless.

On a thread about motorcycles in western countries referencing non-western countries is quite relevant.

The quote I was referring to suggest they are unpopular in Ireland due to the standard of driving. The standard of driving in Ireland is better than a lot of countries where bikes are more popular.

Another example, there's a lot of bikes in Argentina and they are terrible drivers in general in my experience.

Lyle Lanley

username2013 wrote: »

I remember been at St Vincent's hospital one day for a check up on a bone I had had cast. I was talking to a fella in the waiting room who had his 2 wrists in casts. He had been on his motorcycle going through Ranelagh one day and without warning the car in front of him suddenly braked. He braked but went right over the handlebars through the back window breaking his wrists. It's things like this that make me never want to have a motorbike, no protection and so many bad drivers on the road. If this had happened in a car, there would be a minor collision. As it was that guy has been out of work for 6 weeks already. Way too risky for me.

What happened to leave you in a cast?

worded

I've driven bikes

The reason why we don't have loads on the roads is insurance.
We bring our kids everywhere in cars rather let them
Have fun and be independent from a young age.

In saying that I was taking to a MOTO driver who in the early hours met a car
Going around a round about the wrong way ! Driver was saving time taking the first right exit rather than the legal 3rd left exit. MOTO driver missed a head on by a flies fanny hair

CaptainR

worded wrote: »

I've driven bikes

The reason why we don't have loads on the roads is insurance.
We bring our kids everywhere in cars rather let them
Have fun and be independent from a young age.

In saying that I was taking to a MOTO driver who in the early hours met a car
Going around a round about the wrong way ! Driver was saving time taking the first right exit rather than the legal 3rd left exit. MOTO driver missed a head on by a flies fanny hair

That's changing now though with bike insurance much cheaper than that for a car. I got a bike, IBT, really good gear and insurance for way less than what I was quoted for a 1L car.

rustynutz

I started riding bikes when I was 12 (used to "borrow" my fathers superdream 250 and motocross it through the fields) and had my license on my 16th birthday, for the next 2 years I used the bike to commute to work, hail, rain and snow until an old lady pulled out in front of me one evening leaving me with a badly broken ankle. I have always had bikes since this but never bothered commuting, once I got a car I realised the hardship that was involved in commuting year round on a bike in Ireland, constant rain, cold, putting gear on wet from the previous spin, freezing conditions, icy roads, poor road surfaces, diesel spills and not to mention oul ladies trying to kill you!

To me there is no big mystery as to why more don't have bikes in this country for all the reasons above. The only time commuting year round makes sense is if you live in Dublin (which I don't) and riding the bike can literally half your journey time.

Lumen

rustynutz wrote: »

once I got a car I realised the hardship that was involved in commuting year round on a bike in Ireland, constant rain, cold, putting gear on wet from the previous spin, freezing conditions, icy roads, poor road surfaces, diesel spills and not to mention oul ladies trying to kill you

It is not "constantly raining" in Ireland. I've been commuting on 2 wheels daily for about 9 years and I reckon I get properly rained on only a handful of times a year. Maybe Dublin is drier than other parts.

Protection against tarmac is much more inconvenient than rain proofing. Ireland has a very mild climate which makes wearing protective gear quite comfortable. I wouldn't fancy wearing leathers in Texas or Florida.

Policing and the law in Ireland is also quite reasonable.

Johnboner

Would have thought Ireland is a good country for bikes as filtering is not banned, use of bus lanes is not enforced, no nct (yet), and cheap tax and insurance which a lot of people in this country care about.

Del2005

Lumen wrote: »

It is not "constantly raining" in Ireland. I've been commuting on 2 wheels daily for about 9 years and I reckon I get properly rained on only a handful of times a year. Maybe Dublin is drier than other parts.
.

The Whest gets way more rain than the East. We've a farm in Mayo and use it to teach the young ones how to drive. Last summer we could barely get a tractor up the field and even that would have destroyed the fields, it's relatively dry land. The proper farmers really struggled with the wet land.

beauf

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

On a thread about motorcycles in western countries referencing non-western countries is quite relevant.

The quote I was referring to suggest they are unpopular in Ireland due to the standard of driving. The standard of driving in Ireland is better than a lot of countries where bikes are more popular.

Another example, there's a lot of bikes in Argentina and they are terrible drivers in general in my experience.

Its not comparable because we wouldn't accept the high death rates they have in those countries. The whole mindset and standard of living is completely different.

The affordability of a car is also very different.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/16/car-bike-or-motorcycle-depends-on-where-you-live/

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Doesn't make any sense. The expense, difficulty, familial disapproval etc. of running a medium or large bike here means riders are more likely to be enthusiasts. And we have a greater proportion of large bikes than the UK never mind Spain etc. where mopeds are almost everywhere.

It's the scooter and moped riders imho who are more likely to be doing it just because they have to and may only stick with it for a few years until they get a car, change job etc. and the time saved on two wheels isn't worth the hassle for them any more.

Ive heard this quote before, is it on the RSA website?

Im in the UK 4 times a year and I see way way more more bigger, newer more expensive bikes over there than you see anywhere here. Petrol is more expensive there and Im pretty sure insurance is aswell although I stand to be corrected.

The average age of these big bikes over here must be 10 -15 years +, nearly every bike. People here wont spend what they do over there either, even taking into account vrt etc and I say this as a 10 yr old bike owner. Id argue they are way more popular there

Del2005

Keenan Fluffy Teacher wrote: »

Ive heard this quote before, is it on the RSA website?

Im in the UK 4 times a year and I see way way more more bigger, newer more expensive bikes over there than you see anywhere here. Petrol is more expensive there and Im pretty sure insurance is aswell although I stand to be corrected.

The average age of these big bikes over here must be 10 -15 years +, nearly every bike. People here wont spend what they do over there either, even taking into account vrt etc and I say this as a 10 yr old bike owner. Id argue they are way more popular there

London had 8 million people and loads ride scooters or other small bikes for commuting so that would drastically increase the percentage of smaller bikes. We don't have that many small commuter bikes, most people use 400cc+ bikes.

Hotblack Desiato

Johnboner wrote: »

Would have thought Ireland is a good country for bikes as filtering is not banned, use of bus lanes is not enforced, no nct (yet), and cheap tax and insurance which a lot of people in this country care about.

What does that make the OP then?

rustynutz wrote: »

constant rain

Nope. I bought new rain gloves in early Jan, they didn't see rain on the daily commute until this Monday

cold

The trick is to wear layers. and use heated grips.

putting gear on wet from the previous spin

gear which is waterproof will not absorb water, except perhaps in the outer layer, so will need minimal drying

freezing conditions, icy roads

Rare although I don't live in the midlands

poor road surfaces,

Riding too fast to see and avoid.

Hotblack Desiato

username2013 wrote: »

He had been on his motorcycle going through Ranelagh one day and without warning the car in front of him suddenly braked.

As my instructor used to say, if you ever describe the action of another road user with the word 'suddenly' you're doing it wrong.
He followed too close and failed to anticipate that that was hazardous.

Hotblack Desiato

Keenan Fluffy Teacher wrote: »

Ive heard this quote before, is it on the RSA website?

Maybe but here's figures from the Irish CSO and the UK statistics. I couldn't find a breakdown of the whole bike population but here's figures for new registrations by cc.

Ireland new registrations 2015:
up to 50cc  279   9.9%
51 to 125   355  12.5%
126 to 250  105   3.7%
251 to 500  169   6.0%
501 to 750  601  21.2%
751 to 1000 580  20.5%
over 1000   741  26.2%
total      2830  100%

source http://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=tea13_2

UK new registrations 2015:
up to 50cc  7.8%
51-150     37.2%
151-400     8.6%
401-600     3.9%
601-800    12.9%
801-1000   12.0%
Over 1000  17.2%
unknown     0.3%

source https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516275/veh0324.xls

Unfortunately the categories aren't the same, but it's obvious there's a big difference. 45% of new bikes registered in 2015 in the UK are under 150cc. Here only 26% are under 250cc.

There is slightly more registrations under 50cc here, but the proportion of 125 class registrations in the UK is about three times as many as here.

Over 400cc makes up less than half in the UK, here almost half (46%) are over 750cc..!

Hotblack Desiato

beauf wrote: »

According to OECD figures, a motorcyclist is two to three times more likely to be killed in Ireland than in other European country.

REALLY want to see a citation for that figure and how they arrived at it.

Is it per km travelled? (And if so, how do they measure that?!?) Or per number of bike licence holders? or something else?

Countries where lots of people start out on a bike or scooter instead of in a car will end up with lots of people with a motorcycle entitlement on their licence for the rest of their life which they don't use. That makes the population of 'motorcyclists' look much larger, and the death rate look lower, even though most of these people with motorcycle entitlement on their licence aren't using it.

username2013

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

What happened to leave you in a cast?

Fractured ankle playing football. Not much fun, still have pain in the cold weather with it.

Max Headroom

Why motorcycles are unpopular in western countries..

Becaust they fcuk around at toll booths looking for change, dropping their gloves and generally being a nusance...........:P