Can I appeal my car insurers decision to pay out on a claim.

colbarr

I was involved in a rear end incident in April 2015 and a claim was taken out against me. I received notifications sporadically throughout the past 2 years regarding the progress of the claim. At no point was I contacted to give my side of the story. All I received in the end was that the claimant received a large sum of money and that the insurance company's lawyers got the best deal under the circumstances.
Is there a way to dispute or appeal this decision?
Further Details:

• Rear ended a 60 something year old woman on the M50 as a result of stop-start traffic following a separate incident.
• My airbag didn't go off following the impact although it was enough to bend the bonnet back a bit. I later sold the car to a guy who fixes up such cars and he sold it on not too long after.
• Following the accident, after making sure my passengers were okay, I ran up to the lady in the car in front to make sure she was okay. She was shaken and and nearly in tears. It looked more like shock to me than pain (I had just finished a weekend first aid course). I asked if she felt pain anywhere and she said her back was sore, "but it wasn't the strongest back anyway". I asked her if she wanted an ambulance and she said yes, so I dialled 999 and they came. While we waited, I had a conversation with her to keep her from going into shock and she began to calm down. By the time the emergency services arrived (2 fire trucks, an ambulance, gardai and two tow trucks) we were joking about all the hullaballoo caused just for her. She apologised to me as she felt she caused the accident as the car in front of her jammed on the brakes, causing her to jam and then me to jam on and impact the back of her car.
• Anyway, she was strapped up by the paramedics and taken away to Tallaght hospital.
• I informed my insurance company 2 days later.
• Months later I receive info from Claims Ireland. Forms she had filled in stating that, among other things, she was claiming approximately €2500 in car damages, €300 euro in lost earnings, and the ambulance fees. She also stated that she had an open claim against B&Q for an incident that happened a year previous.
• Months later I received a letter from my insurance company's lawyer saying they were taking my case and would get the best deal they could.
• Two weeks ago I get a letter saying the claim was resolved and she received €32500.

Wesser

She must have made an claim for personal. Injury for back pain I suspect??
What speed did you hit her at? If it was not fast then it might have been exaggerated.
It is impossible for a doctor to say to a patient that you are exaggerating g your pain as it very subjective.
If you hit the back of her car then it is virtually always your fault and your insurance company know this and that you are liable.

What would your grounds for appeal be? Your side of the story is that you ran into the back of someone.

colbarr

I can't remember the exact speed, maybe 60kph by the time I hit the brakes. I understand it's my fault, what I don't understand is why she, or anyone for that matter, receive such a high payout, especially considering she had an open claim from a hardware shop already.

Wesser

Well then that's more if a theoretical question than an individual question.

Why is compensation culture so rife in Ireland? Because the payouts are so large. Why are the payouts so large? Well that's a topic that widely and frequently discussed all over the media.

amcalester

colbarr wrote: »

I can't remember the exact speed, maybe 60kph by the time I hit the brakes. I understand it's my fault, what I don't understand is why she, or anyone for that matter, receive such a high payout, especially considering she had an open claim from a hardware shop already.

Do you mean 6kph or 60kph?

If you hit her at 60kph then 32k is probably a small payout.

If it was 5kph you're probably right to feel hard done by but there's nothing you can do. You hit her from behind.

dev100

Chalk it up to a bad experience that you caused !!!! I done the same myself only I just lifted my foot off the clutch at a junction lucky all was paid out was for repair damage and no other hassles

Your stuck for 3 to 5 years with your insurance company once you've had a smack and it was your fault .... I'd leave it be and it's in your best interest to have it settled quickly

colbarr

Wesser wrote: »

Well then that's more if a theoretical question than an individual question.

Why is compensation culture so rife in Ireland? Because the payouts are so large. Why are the payouts so large? Well that's a topic that widely and frequently discussed all over the media.

I guess that was more along the lines of what I hoped to get from starting this thread.

Like, if you move out of rented accommodation and the landlord withholds your deposit, you're entitled to a complete breakdown of what they intend to use the money for. But in the instance of personal injury claims, it seems the judge sits there and pulls a number out of a hat. There's no rationale behind their decisions, as far as I know anyway.

percy212

Very frustrating OP. Had something similar happen. Payouts are massive.

amcalester

colbarr wrote: »

I guess that was more along the lines of what I hoped to get from starting this thread.

Like, if you move out of rented accommodation and the landlord withholds your deposit, you're entitled to a complete breakdown of what they intend to use the money for. But in the instance of personal injury claims, it seems the judge sits there and pulls a number out of a hat. There's no rationale behind their decisions, as far as I know anyway.

Isn't the payout based on the values in the book of quantum?

Does the size of the payout make any difference to your future premiums?

I've been told by a broker it doesn't but that doesn't make sense to me.

oakshade

percy212 wrote:

Very frustrating OP. Had something similar happen. Payouts are massive.

+1 here too OP, very frustrating... unfortunately you can only chalk it up to experience.

NUTLEY BOY

On the issue of fault it seems agreed that there is no argument. I think that OP's wonder relates to the issue of causation i.e. how could I have caused that much damage and injury ?

OP's insurers will have secured the relevant medical evidence to be certain that the claim is valid. Be sure that the insurers would not be handing out that sort of money without adequate evidence.

There was a concurrent claim against B & Q. I would have expected OP's insurers to have liaised with B & Q's insurers to ensure no overlap and duplication of damages.

Under OP's contract with his motor insurers they have the right to conduct the defence or handling of the claim and to make the relevant decisions. Insurers, generally speaking, do not defer to the views of the client before processing a claim against them.

An appeal, as such, does not lie against OP's insurers. OP can make a formal complaint if he feels that the insurers were themselves negligent in how they handled the case. On the facts posted I cannot see any realistic basis for this.

OP this was an unfortunate accident which, by good fortune, many of us have probably avoided narrowly. It might not seem so but this was only a moderately serious accident by comparison to what can and does happen. We learn and we move on with the extended wisdom of our experience....

Kimbot

Regardless of her feeling at fault, she managed to stop her car and not hit anyone. You didnt, so there is no point in appealing the claim. Also just to point out, the B&Q claim has no relevance here.

AndrewJRenko

colbarr wrote: »

especially considering she had an open claim from a hardware shop already.

So if you are unfortunate enough to get hit and injured twice by other drivers in six months, how many claims will you make?

Seems strange that 'you never gave your side of the story' at all - did your own insurance company never send you out a claim form or request for information?

mitresize5

For what it is worth this is my experience.

I'm like most people, disgusted with the insurance payout culture and the exaggeration of claims... and as for this whole whiplash thing

.... until I was sitting in traffic last September at lights and was rear ended by a fella who admitted he took his eyes off the road for a second. Like the person you hit I was grand afterwards, a little but shook but in good form and ended up having a good chat with the guy who hit me. Someone called the guards and ambulance and after a quick check up and swapping details we went on our way. I told the guy he had nothing to worry about as long as he paid for the damage there was no need to get the insurance companies involved.

that was until I woke up the following morning and couldn't get out of bed. My shoulder and neck was rigid and stiff as a poker, I was out of work for a week and have been in physio every fortnight since. Thankfully it is on the mend but is certainly not 100% coming up on 6 months later. My stomach is also in ribbons from anti inflammatories

needless to say my opinion on whiplash and compensation culture has changed some what.

OP's these things happen, its the reason we all have insurance as accidents do happen.

amcalester

mitresize5 wrote: »

For what it is worth this is my experience.

I'm like most people, disgusted with the insurance payout culture and the exaggeration of claims... and as for this whole whiplash thing

.... until I was sitting in traffic last September at lights and was rear ended by a fella who admitted he took his eyes off the road for a second. Like the person you hit I was grand afterwards, a little but shook but in good form and ended up having a good chat with the guy who hit me. Someone called the guards and ambulance and after a quick check up and swapping details we went on our way. I told the guy he had nothing to worry about as long as he paid for the damage there was no need to get the insurance companies involved.

that was until I woke up the following morning and couldn't get out of bed. My shoulder and neck was rigid and stiff as a poker, I was out of work for a week and have been in physio every fortnight since. Thankfully it is on the mend but is certainly not 100% coming up on 6 months later. My stomach is also in ribbons from anti inflammatories

needless to say my opinion on whiplash and compensation culture has changed some what.

OP's these things happen, its the reason we all have insurance as accidents do happen.

Sorry for your troubles and I hope you recover fully, and soon.

Out of curiosity are you able to estimate how much you have spend on physio etc as a result of the accident?

mcgiggles

colbarr wrote: »

Two weeks ago I get a letter saying the claim was resolved and she received €32500.

That's a joke, my fella was stopped at a roundabout, was rear ended by a drunk driver that didn't even brake who then took off and drove into a wall, his boot and back seat were crushed up to the back of the front seats and he only got 18k out of it! and himself and his friend were out of work for months after it! This country is ridiculous.

mcgiggles

jonnycivic wrote: »

Regardless of her feeling at fault, she managed to stop her car and not hit anyone. You didnt, so there is no point in appealing the claim. Also just to point out, the B&Q claim has no relevance here.

It very well could do, for example if she had a claim from B&Q where she fell and injured her back and that hasn't been settled, then she claims that this crash injured her back, then whats to say the injury wasn't initially caused by the fall in B&Q and not wholly by the crash? all the damages wouldn't relate to this incident then..

mitresize5

amcalester wrote: »

Sorry for your troubles and I hope you recover fully, and soon.

Out of curiosity are you able to estimate how much you have spend on physio etc as a result of the accident?

cheers - thankfully I'm getting better every week so if I keep going the way I'm going in another month or two I'll be right

I tell you something though its changed my perception on whiplash and people who suffer from it, it is definitely a thing, having said that I can see how it is easy to exaggerate claims if someone was that way inclined.

I've had 12 sessions of physio at €50 a pop, I've stretched it to once a month rather than once a fortnight.

3 doctors visits at 60 a pop and 4 prescriptions for anti inflammatory.

Special Circumstances

mitresize5 wrote: »

cheers - thankfully I'm getting better every week so if I keep going the way I'm going in another month or two I'll be right

I tell you something though its changed my perception on whiplash and people who suffer from it, it is definitely a thing, having said that I can see how it is easy to exaggerate claims if someone was that way inclined.

I've had 12 sessions of physio at €50 a pop, I've stretched it to once a month rather than once a fortnight.

3 doctors visits at 60 a pop and 4 prescriptions for anti inflammatory.

What would you make of the calls by insurance millionaires to "ban Whiplash"?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/aig-wants-ireland-to-consider-banning-whiplash-claims-722514.html

Or even the idea that your treatment would be paid for, you'd just have to take the time out of your work/life to transport yourself to the treatment and back etc? Obviously there would be no compensation for loss of a decent nights sleep, inability to enjoy your favourite leisure activities - that's scammer talk.

Good decent gullible people just grimace and struggle on after some ignoramus rams into them through bad driving and a lack of respect and consideration for other road users :pac:


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102421731&postcount=7
"I'd be very confident that the majority of the whiplash claims are either false or very much exaggerated."

AudreyHepburn

It's very frustrating OP but all you can really do is chalk it up to experience and move on. You were the one who rear ended her so unfortunately you are at fault here.

I hate Compo Culture with a passion and honestly believe the compensation given for the likes of back injuries and whiplash needs to be dramatically decreased.

It's just too easy to fake this kind of injury and so I honestly believe that unless there is visible damage done any money paid out should severely limited or not paid out at all if you cannot give definite proof of your injury.

Special Circumstances

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

It's just too easy to fake this kind of injury and so I honestly believe that unless there is visible damage done any money paid out should severely limited or not paid out at all if you cannot give definite proof of your injury.

You'd punish genuine cases to leave the scammers off free? It's OK to inflict an injury on somebody else through bad driving - "HTFU, it's only a strain or a sprain like"?

punisher5112

I was hit a few years ago where van hit me going same direction but swerved in and hit me side on lifting the car up and pulling me 20 feet through a junction.

I am waiting over 4 years and still haven't received a cent. Damage to the car was bad and yes I had a sore back for around a year. It does come back the odd time but I can live with it thankfully.

I agree the system is flawed but there are times where even a small shunt can cause injury.

AudreyHepburn

Special Circumstances wrote: »

You'd punish genuine cases to leave the scammers off free? It's OK to inflict an injury on somebody else through bad driving - "HTFU, it's only a strain or a sprain like"?

That's not what I said at all.

I just think it's too easy to fake soft tissue injuries and very difficult to prove so payouts should be limited and not given out willy nilly like they are now.

Special Circumstances

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

That's not what I said at all.

I just think it's too easy to fake soft tissue injuries and very difficult to prove so payouts should be limited and not given out willy nilly like they are now.

But if there was a verified shunt, and no suggestion of the accident being a joint enterprise between the two parties... the person who was rear ended should suffer in silence unless something is broken or bleeding? Sounds like "HTFU, outta my way peasants" to me.

Do you accept that it's easy to sprain or strain or twist an ankle, wrist, back doing common or garden activities? Where is the proof of a twinge in your back after this?

But soft tissue injuries in the cervical spine area are unpossible after being unexpectedly shunted by 1.5 ton of metal in motion?

Don't wanna have a claim for soft tissue injuries against you? Have some respect for other drivers and don't smash into them. Don't demonise people with legitimate injuries.

NUTLEY BOY

jonnycivic wrote: »

SNIP Also just to point out, the B&Q claim has no relevance here.

The B & Q claim could be very relevant. The insurers should (I hope) have contacted the liability insurers of B & Q and swapped notes.

If there was clearly no overlap then no issue would arise e.g. a sprained ankle in B & Q and a whiplash in the car accident.

However, if there was any overlap it can then become very technically complicated to resolve that issue for several reasons not the least being proximate causation to ensure that the respective liabilities fall where they properly belong.

colbarr

Just an update on this,

The final outlay on this claim is €62,576.73

Seems a bit excessive for a rear end incident, no?

RustyNut

colbarr wrote: »

Just an update on this,

The final outlay on this claim is €62,576.73

Seems a bit excessive for a rear end incident, no?

30 grand for legal fees? It's not the victim of the accident taking the p1ss here.

Needs Must

Lucky you had insurance, all's well that ends well.

punisher5112

Needs Must wrote: »

Lucky you had insurance, all's well that ends well.

If they didn't have insurance most would be better off from what we all see going on in the courts.

Do it right and you are screwed.

Needs Must

punisher5112 wrote:

If they didn't have insurance most would be better off from what we all see going on in the courts.

It's not him I'm talking about, it's the poor lady motorist he rear ended by driving too close to, at a speed he wasn't able to stop safely at. She was entitled to be reimbursed for the inconvenience of it all, she doesn't set the figure.