Atheist godfather to niece for communion and confirmation.

Hotblack Desiato

frostyjacks wrote: »

We live in a Christian country, and you'll be making a rod for your own back if you take such a loathsome view of religion.

So people must conform to the prevailing view, or it'll be worse for them if they don't?

Hmm.... very 'christian' all right.

Ursus Horribilis

Worztron wrote: »

So I should just forget about integrity and just pretend on the day that I belief all the religious guff? No way! .

If that's your attitude, then you're better off having a quiet word with your niece's parents now. If you're as angry as this, then you're going to ruin everyone's day when the time comes. There's a time and place to express your opinions. A kid's first holy communion is certainly not it. Also, you need to watch how far you go with your expression of atheism. You are in danger of becoming the angry pub bore, ready to bang on about religion and ram your beliefs down other people's throats.

Chances are she's going to start questioning it all in a few years anyway. At 8 or even 12, her perception of religion is nothing like it will be when she gets older and starts to think for herself. If this so-called brainwashing was as prevalent as you think it is, every church in the country would be bursting at the seams on Sundays. The Catholic Church is steadily but surely dying a death in Ireland and that's only going to accelerate over time.

smacl

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

The Catholic Church is steadily but surely dying a death in Ireland and that's only going to accelerate over time.

No doubt about it, but many Irish people have legitimate serious grievances with the Catholic church for both past abuses and ongoing discrimination, so rather unfair to characterise the OP as a potential pub bore on that basis. As has been posted earlier, no reason whatsoever to assume that just because someone loathes the church that they're going to ruin anyone's day if they step into one. I've been to my share of church weddings and funerals and have snuck under the radar entirely unnoticed, feelthy heathen than I am. Just one more bored face in the pews, indistinguishable from most Irish Catholics on either side in that respect

Tigger

'm a godfather to a niece and i was as atheist when i became one as i am now. i treat all the religiousy stuff like i do santa ; for the time being i play along but when she starts telling me rather than asking me about the validity of the absurd and childish claims wrt santa and his ability to give rich kids big pressies but let the poor kids starve (why dosent santa give food to the hungry babies?) then i will give her my point of view.
till then why rock the boat? shes only a kid who likes the pagentry

py2006

beechwood55 wrote: »

Simply tell her parents that you are now an atheist and would prefer not to have to attend her First Holy Communion Mass.

That's ridiculous. If invited go.

Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you have forgo family occasions.

Zubeneschamali

Dial Hard wrote: »

There's a huge religious element to being a godparent in a Catholic baptism. How did you handle that aspect?

I think I had to renounce Satan and all his works and all his empty promises. Pretty easy for an atheist to do.

eviltwin

OP you are an atheist and the FHC and confirmation thing means nothing to you but it obviously means something to your niece so why can't you just go and enjoy the day?

I don't get this attitude at all. I'm also atheist but I wouldn't decline an invitation to a religious ceremony because of it. Would you refuse to go to a religious wedding or funeral?

You're not being asked to endorse her beliefs, just to be there to support her on what is a big day in her life. I think it would be really unfair to her to use the day to make a point.

Walter H Price

AryaStark wrote: »

I 'loath' the church and everything that it stands for. I hate it and I also hate organised religion. It did not stop me from entering a church though. I think that the majority or religious people are hypocrites and that they do not believe the teachings of the church.
I am a proud atheist but I do not feel the need to discuss it with people and for example if an old person says something like God bless you I just thank them and smile cause I think it is cute.
I think that the op should not worry so much and should spoil his goddaughter and buy her a nice present - or give her a nice bit of cash - seems to be all the communion is about for kids anyway.

i'd 100% relate to this point of view , religion is not for me and i have major issues with the Church but i would be mature enough to acknowledge that a child's communion or conformation is not about me , so i would go if asked , though not participate in the mass.

I have no nieces or nephews and none of my mates have kids at this stage so not been asked to be a Godparent (and may never be) i'm not sure how i would approach that to be honest if asked my mind says obviously to politely decline but without being in the situation i would never say never, i don't deal much in absolutes. we wont be christening our kids and most of my friends and family are also non believers so would hope to never be asked, to be honest.

I can understand the OP's potential dilemma , i would say go along if asked , if your asked to be a sponsor or even before being asked maybe say it to the child's parents that due to your non belief you might not be the best person , but if the kid really wants you , don't let them down on whats a big day in their eyes i would just see it as an honor to be asked and that the kid thinks that much of you and ignore the religious sh!te around it.

Hotblack Desiato

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

The Catholic Church is steadily but surely dying a death in Ireland and that's only going to accelerate over time.

It'd accelerate even faster if non-believers stopped propping up its cultural influence.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I think I had to renounce Satan and all his works and all his empty promises. Pretty easy for an atheist to do.

Yeah but then they ask you to declare that you believe in god (godparent at a baptism)

Zubeneschamali

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yeah but then they ask you to declare that you believe in god (godparent at a baptism)

I'd sure be in trouble with NoGod if I said out loud that I believed in God.

NoGod hates that.

smacl

eviltwin wrote: »

it obviously means something to your niece

Honest question as a lifelong atheist who's never been through this; why obviously? If communion and confirmation were obviously meaningful ceremonies to all children who went through them, wouldn't you think they might go to mass a bit more often as adults? I wonder if they weren't receiving copious amounts of money for going through the ceremony, how many would actually look forward to it, or even voluntarily participate? Much like Christmas, most of what underlies these so-called religious ceremonies appears to based around greed and overindulgence.

frostyjacks

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So people must conform to the prevailing view, or it'll be worse for them if they don't?

Hmm.... very 'christian' all right.

He doesn't have to conform, merely put his niece's interests ahead of his own. It's really not that difficult.

Zubeneschamali

smacl wrote: »

If communion and confirmation were obviously meaningful ceremonies to all children who went through them, wouldn't you think they might go to mass a bit more often as adults?

Communion and confirmation are very meaningful - they mean a day off, an excuse to dress up, relatives giving you money and a party.

Not sure what the connection to mass is - none of the parents go to mass, why would the kids?

smacl

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Communion and confirmation are very meaningful - they mean a day off, an excuse to dress up, relatives giving you money and a party.

Not sure what the connection to mass is - none of the parents go to mass, why would the kids?

Sure don't they deserve a treat after wasting all those school hours in preparation when they could have been studying something useful, interesting or at least academically pertinent.

MayoAreMagic

Well in fairness, you agreed to be their godparent therefore you signed up to this.

So how about you stop making the thing about yourself and just go to the child's big day? You don't have to turn water into wine here, you just need to be respectful. I assume you have attended weddings in your time, so really I don't see how this is all that different...

Hotblack Desiato

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I'd sure be in trouble with NoGod if I said out loud that I believed in God.

Well lots of non-believers would have a difficulty with standing up in front of their family and friends and expressing belief in a religion, and especially with endorsing by their actions an organisation as vile as the RCC.

They have principles in other worlds. Time was, children were taught it was important to stand up for one's principles even in the face of opposition. Now, in this thread adults are being told to go along with the flow at all costs and not risk making a fuss. What message are the kids going to take from that?

Zubeneschamali

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Time was, children were taught it was important to stand up for one's principles even in the face of opposition. Now, in this thread adults are being told to go along with the flow at all costs and not risk making a fuss. What message are the kids going to take from that?

Don't be a dick?

frostyjacks

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Well lots of non-believers would have a difficulty with standing up in front of their family and friends and expressing belief in a religion, and especially with endorsing by their actions an organisation as vile as the RCC.

They have principles in other worlds. Time was, children were taught it was important to stand up for one's principles even in the face of opposition. Now, in this thread adults are being told to go along with the flow at all costs and not risk making a fuss. What message are the kids going to take from that?

The message would be one of respect and tolerance. You think the Church is vile; you're allowed to hold that opinion. But you respect other people's beliefs enough to put those opinions to one side, and help them celebrate their day

It would be a very ugly society if people just did their own thing without giving a damn about anybody else, even their own blood.

Hotblack Desiato

How is declining to be a godparent, when you don't believe in god, 'being a dick' exactly?

witchgirl26

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How is declining to be a godparent, when you don't believe in god, 'being a dick' exactly?

It's one thing to decline to be a godparent when asked - it's a different thing to say yes at the time & then 7 years later have an issue when you might be expected to turn up to events in the child's life relating to the church.

Unshelved

Maybe find out first if you're expected to go to the church? I didn't attend either of my godchildren's communion masses - there was such a big crowd that they asked for immediate family only to go. This is quite common - and could save you a potential family row.

OP - I don't in any way doubt your sincerity but I think you're in danger of making your niece's day all about yourself. You were given the privilege of godparent by her parents - and ideally that means that you'll be looking out for her all her life. If you genuinely can't find it in you to go to the church then fine - but don't make a song and dance about it. It's not your day - no-one is interested in you or your principles that day. Just tell her parents that you can't attend and leave it at that. Go to the party afterwards, plaster a smile on your face and tell everyone that your niece looks lovely. Save the proselyting for when she's older and able to understand.

GerB40

Worztron wrote: »

Hi all.

I was godfather to my niece at her baptism almost 8 years ago. Since then I've become atheist and now loath religion. Now with her communion and confirmation to come within the next few years -- I'm certainly not looking forward to them.

Should I politely opt out? Is there much problems in assigning a new godfather?

What must a godfather do at communion and confirmations? I hope it does not involve blessing myself as I refuse to do that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Just go through the motions for the sake of your goddaughter. Decry satan and all the shyte because it's not your day, it's your goddaughter's, and opting out would likely embarrass her. I've done all those things as a card carrying atheist and I've never had a moral dilemma. I took part in a ritual that is part of the culture I grew up in, just not one I ascribe to. It's pretty simple when you put it like that..

robindch

Unshelved wrote: »

Save the proselyting for when she's older and able to understand.

So your view is that the niece shouldn't be proselytized until she's older because she's too young at the moment to deal with religious ideas?

How does that fit in with the years of proselytization which she's presumably received to date. She wasn't too young for that?

Worztron

donkeykong5 wrote: »

No.

Why? Because you dislike facts?

Worztron

frostyjacks wrote: »

I think you're being a little narrow minded. We live in a Christian country, and you'll be making a rod for your own back if you take such a loathsome view of religion. As for using a child in the argument, isn't that the reason for the thread?

What if you had a daughter who has a church wedding, you going to let someone else walk her down the aisle? Where do you draw the line?

We don't live in a christian country. We live in a country that has christianity as the dominant religion. There's a big difference. Re-read my initial post.

Worztron

Lau2976 wrote: »

The main question you need to decide OP is if this will upset your niece.

If no, dowgat you feel is right.

If yes, is your integrity or your nieces feelings more important?

Integrity is more important in the long run.

Michael OBrien

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How is declining to be a godparent, when you don't believe in god, 'being a dick' exactly?

My earlier post, just to clarify, was for people who accepted the role before being an atheist, then years later became one, and now faced communion and confirmation.
I would agree that once an atheist you should not be a godparent, unless it is seen by the family as just a cultural thing to get through and they really just want you to be given an extra bond with their child. Then its up to you.
The OP seemed to be in that position.

frostyjacks

Worztron wrote: »

We don't live in a christian country. We live in a country that has christianity as the dominant religion. There's a big difference. Re-read my initial post.

My opinion, my integrity...all I'm hearing from you is me, me, me. Do you respect your niece? You've a funny way of showing it.

I don't know what you think goes on in a Holy Communion/Confirmation, but it's really not a big deal. Certainly not worth dissing a child over. Can you not find another way to show how good an atheist you are?

Unshelved

robindch wrote: »

So your view is that the niece shouldn't be proselytized until she's older because she's too young at the moment to deal with religious ideas?

How does that fit in with the years of proselytization which she's presumably received to date. She wasn't too young for that?

I don't know where to go with this. She's a kid. Her parents chose to bring her up catholic. It's her First Communion - a big day in her life. Why would anyone choose to spoil it? I sympathise with the OP's position - I just think that family is important and happy family days are important too.

OP - if you feel so strongly about it, just don't go. Just don't make this all about you.

smacl

Unshelved wrote: »

It's her First Communion - a big day in her life. Why would anyone choose to spoil it?

To be fair, I don't think the OP would do any such thing. You and a few other posters here seem to be implying that he would create some kind of a scene in the church that would lead to an upset, and hence spoil the day for the niece. I haven't read anything to suggest that he do any more or less than sit innocuously on the pew and simply not take a more active role in the ceremony, or, if more was required, simply not attend. I don't think he's actually planning on standing up in the middle of the Lord's prayer and calling the Pope a cúnt or anything. Mind you, you never know.....Worz?

Put another way, what exactly is it you think he's going to do that will spoil the day for the niece?