Atheist godfather to niece for communion and confirmation.

Zubeneschamali

Here, watch this: "I believe in One God the Father Almighty, creator of Heaven and Earth.." I did not choke, lightning did not strike me. I recited a bit of rote text.

Are you unable to recite "I wandered lonely as a cloud" because that totally never happened, you never saw a host of feckin daffodils, it is NOT TRUE!!!

Who cares? It's just empty words vs. a godchild's biggest day of the year.

smacl

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It's just empty words vs. a godchild's biggest day of the year.

False dichotomy, unless of course you can explain how exactly is the OP not saying those words going to spoil his niece's day. I've been to plenty of Catholic weddings and funerals over the years, not to mention a few from some other wacky religions. Never recited any prayers at any of them, nobody cared, why should they?

Zubeneschamali

smacl wrote: »

False dichotomy, unless of course you can explain how exactly is the OP not saying those words going to spoil his niece's day. I've been to plenty of Catholic weddings and funerals over the years, not to mention a few from some other wacky religions. Never recited any prayers at any of them, nobody cared, why should they?

The issue was raised because to be a godparent in the first place, you have to say the words, and some people apparently have too much integrity to do so.

Alternatively, some people give this nonsense way too much space in their heads.

robindch

Unshelved wrote: »

I don't know where to go with this.

Well, you could answer the question? You said "Save the proselyting for when she's older and able to understand." so am I right to assume that you don't like seeing kids being indoctrinated?

Unshelved wrote: »

Why would anyone choose to spoil it?

The OP has not chosen to spoil it. What has happened is that the church, and possibly the family, has created a social situation where a relative has to choose between two critical qualities - loyalty and honesty.

This problem is not of the OP's making and he's asking for honest opinions on what to to.

The prevailing opinion from the religious in this thread is the same as it's been from the religious in previous threads on this topic - either shut up or get lost, often accompanied by an unhelpful "stop making this about you". The tone from the religious has usually been less than fully helpful and frequently nasty.

If it were me at this event, I'd mention to the parents ahead of time that I'm happy to be there for the child and for the family, but that I wouldn't be telling any lies either about what I believed and that I'd be happy to work with the priest to come up with a form of words for the ceremony which would keep everybody on board.

I'm sure most priests could probably work with that.

robindch

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Who cares? It's just empty words vs. a godchild's biggest day of the year.

Well, as Hotblack points out above, some people are unhappy making public commitments which they know to be false.

Others have fewer ethical scruples.

Zubeneschamali

robindch wrote: »

Well, as Hotblack points out above, some people are unhappy making public commitments which they know to be false.

Others have fewer ethical scruples.

I have lots of ethical scruples, but they are about real stuff, not whether reciting rhymes about mythological beings violates my integrity.

Do you have issues with Santy Claus and hiding chocolate eggs in the garden? Pagan trees in the house at Winter Solstice? Naming the days of the week?

smacl

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The issue was raised because to be a godparent in the first place, you have to say the words, and some people apparently have too much integrity to do so.

Alternatively, some people give this nonsense way too much space in their heads.

Still not seeing anything that would spoil the day for the niece here. Given that this seems to be the principal justification for deriding the OP's position, seems to me that people are having a go at him for no good reason. Strikes me as a bit ironic that some of the more religiously inclined people here would advise that the OP behaves dishonestly in church for the sake of tradition, because I rather doubt the niece is going to take much notice either way.

Unshelved

smacl wrote: »

To be fair, I don't think the OP would do any such thing. You and a few other posters here seem to be implying that he would create some kind of a scene in the church that would lead to an upset, and hence spoil the day for the niece. I haven't read anything to suggest that he do any more or less than sit innocuously on the pew and simply not take a more active role in the ceremony, or, if more was required, simply not attend. I don't think he's actually planning on standing up in the middle of the Lord's prayer and calling the Pope a cúnt or anything. Mind you, you never know.....Worz?

Put another way, what exactly is it you think he's going to do that will spoil the day for the niece?

I don't know where you got that - I certainly don't think that the OP is going to create a scene in the Church or anywhere else. I'd credit him with more sensitivity and intelligence.

However, he does talk about himself a lot in his posts and there's little mention of his god-daughter. From his posts, I don't know if he's given much thought about what SHE would like, given that it's her big day. It's also a big day for parents - there is a big sense of achievement getting child to that stage in life. I've seen it with my siblings - it's a chance to look at their lovely kid and think - "well - we've done okay so far".

Going from his posts, the OP seems to be gearing up for a big announcement to her parents that he couldn't possibly attend the festivities because it would be going against his principles. My argument is, if he doesn't want to go, and his god-child & her family may well be okay about this - then fine - no harm done. But it's not his day, it's her's so he shouldn't do it in such a way as to make him the centre of attention. Furthermore - as a godparent he may well have no role to play in the church itself - so it might be best to suss this out before the grandstanding.

My real point is, we may not agree with the occasion and the reason for the celebration, but why take away any of the joy of it for someone else? The OP is looking for honest opinions and here is mine - family is more important than principles. He may agree or he may not - but when you post on a board you can't expect every point of view to chime with your own. I wish him well with his decision - whatever it may be.

Qs

Worztron wrote: »

Should I politely opt out? Is there much problems in assigning a new godfather?

You can have anyone you like fill in for these things. My sisters godmother and godfather had both emigrated when she was making her communion and confirmation. And I'm pretty sure for confirmation you choose a sponsor, at least I think I did so she probably wont want you considering you aren't religious. At least at that age you could explain it.

If I was in your position I think I'd just do what I do for weddings and funerals, attend but don't kneel or pretend to pray, etc Just like someone of a different religion would.

Zubeneschamali

smacl wrote: »

Strikes me as a bit ironic that some of the more religiously inclined people here would advise that the OP behaves dishonestly in church for the sake of tradition

I am so far from being religiously inclined that reciting the Lord's Prayer has no more significance to me than reciting Twinkle Twinkle.

Speaking of which, stars do not really twinkle, it is an illusion caused by refraction of a point source of light in the atmosphere due to uneven heating of air masses. And they aren't little, they are feckin massive.

Dishonesty! Where's my integrity now?

smacl

Unshelved wrote: »

My real point is, we may not agree with the occasion and the reason for the celebration, but why take away any of the joy of it for someone else?

I honestly don't see what actions the OP is going to take the joy out of the occasion for everyone else. Uncle Worz didn't bless himself or munch on the body of Christ with the other uncles and aunties, not exactly a major upset now is it? Are people in this day and age really that fragile that they'd care one way or another?

Qs

The thing is there no Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star people trying to stop kids from getting into schools, or women from having reproductive rights, or trying to limit gay rights, or seeking tax exempt status, or protecting paedophiles from justice, or hiding mass baby graves, etc, etc So its not even close to being the same thing.

smacl

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I am so far from being religiously inclined that reciting the Lord's Prayer has no more significance to me than reciting Twinkle Twinkle.

And yet you seem to be of the opinion that by not taking an active role in the ceremony the OP is going to spoil his nieces big day. I dare say he could recite Twinkle Twinkle while others were saying their prayers and she wouldn't care less. Again, what exactly is he going to do that will spoil her day, because short of running off with her communion money, I reckon he's pretty safe.

Unshelved

smacl wrote: »

I honestly don't see what actions the OP is going to take the joy out of the occasion for everyone else. Uncle Worz didn't bless himself or munch on the body of Christ with the other uncles and aunties, not exactly a major upset now is it? Are people in this day and age really that fragile that they'd care one way or another?

And the family may well take the same view. However, the fact that the OP posted here might indicate that he's worried that they may not. You may not see WHY, but that doesn't mean that it won't happen.

CiarraiAbu2

Worztron wrote: »

Hi all.

I was godfather to my niece at her baptism almost 8 years ago. Since then I've become atheist and now loath religion. Now with her communion and confirmation to come within the next few years -- I'm certainly not looking forward to them.

Should I politely opt out? Is there much problems in assigning a new godfather?

What must a godfather do at communion and confirmations? I hope it does not involve blessing myself as I refuse to do that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Lads, this thread is starting to run away with it's self,

OP you don't have to do anything on the day except be a good uncle and brother, just stand at the back of church, get your photo taking afterwards (Smile) and enjoy the family get together afterwards where there will no discussion about religion by anyone. If it's a small school they might have tea afterwards, just have a chat no biggie.

PS: No harm telling your niece she look beautiful either.

smacl

Unshelved wrote: »

And the family may well take the same view. However, the fact that the OP posted here might indicate that he's worried that they may not. You may not see WHY, but that doesn't mean that it won't happen.

Hence my original post on the thread was to talk to the family and get their view on it. That said, I can't see the 'why', you haven't shown me a 'why', much like God, I rather doubt this 'why' exists.

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

Hi all.

I was godfather to my niece at her baptism almost 8 years ago. Since then I've become atheist and now loath religion. Now with her communion and confirmation to come within the next few years -- I'm certainly not looking forward to them.

Should I politely opt out? Is there much problems in assigning a new godfather?

What must a godfather do at communion and confirmations? I hope it does not involve blessing myself as I refuse to do that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Why don't you just wait & see if you are invited first?

Godparents don't do anything at communion or confirmation.

meeeeh

Does anything describe 'first world problem' better than this thread. I am pretty sure the godfather will be the last person parents or the little girl will be preoccupied with during confirmation/ first communion. Nobody cares so stop inventing problems where there are none just to pretend to be the social outcast because of your beliefs or lack of them.

Qs

meeeeh wrote: »

Does anything describe 'first world problem' better than this thread.

Yeah lots of things. This isn't an issue that has anything to do with wealth or privilege.

robindch

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I have lots of ethical scruples, but they are about real stuff, not whether reciting rhymes about mythological beings violates my integrity.

As Qs points out, the people who brought you Twinkle, Twinkle don't run the nation's schools and therefore, don't have an opportunity to tell kids that the moon is made of green cheese and that if the kids don't believe what the nice man in black clothes tells them, that they'll all go to hell for all eternity, to burn there in a lake of molten sulfur.

One doesn't need to go all dramaqueen on this in order to avoid compromising one's integrity and as above, I'm sure a quick word with the priest would produce a compromise acceptable to all.

The RCC can bend as many of its own rules as it wants to, when it wants to.

robindch

meeeeh wrote: »

Does anything describe 'first world problem' better than this thread. I am pretty sure the godfather will be the last person parents or the little girl will be preoccupied with during confirmation/ first communion. Nobody cares so stop inventing problems where there are none just to pretend to be the social outcast because of your beliefs or lack of them.

Did you take a moment to read any of the thread before starting to fulminate your angry reply?

Qs

Its rather annoying that people can't ask simple questions about whats expected of them in a religious event and how we think they should deal with it without a pile on of insults.

meeeeh

robindch wrote: »

Did you take a moment to read any of the thread before starting to fulminate your angry reply?

I read half of it and still can't fathom what the issue is. And btw it's not an angry reply it's dismissive. The whole thing reminds me of rhe only gay in the village sketch in Little Britain.

Zubeneschamali

Unshelved wrote: »

family is more important than principles.

I would not go that far, some principles are very important indeed.

But refusing to go to a family occasion because you loathe religion is not one of the important ones - it is a self-indulgent bit of vanity to imagine that anyone cares whether you loathe religion or not at a kids event.

robindch

meeeeh wrote: »

The whole thing reminds me of rhe only gay in the village sketch in Little Britain.

And the response from all of the religious and all those people who don't bother to take the time to understand what the issue is can often sound like a bunch of pitch-fork wielding peasants making their clamorous way up some medieval street at night looking for a witch to burn. For her own good of course.

Why don't you take the time to read the thread before leaping in with a view which is not informed by the facts of the case?

If you can't understand what the issue is, then why not ask? I'm sure somebody will explain (again).

meeeeh

Sorry sweetie I am an atheist I just don't bother acting like a victim of constant pitch fork prosecution. There is no issue. This is not putting kids to the school with ethos that doesn't match your own. Either you go or don't. Nobody will care how you will spend your morning.

robindch

meeeeh wrote: »

There is no issue.

Well, while the issue is quite clear to me - perhaps it isn't to you.

Why don't you ask the OP to expand on what the problem is instead of posting mildly insulting comments?

smacl

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But refusing to go to a family occasion because you loathe religion is not one of the important ones - it is a self-indulgent bit of vanity to imagine that anyone cares whether you loathe religion or not at a kids event.

And yet the OP hasn't said anything about not going to the event, he merely asked whether he'd have to be involved in the religious aspect of the ceremony. Pretty early on in the thread he got the response that he wouldn't, so problem solved. He also mentioned he loathed the church at which point a bunch of posters started lambasting him for spoiling his niece's big day with his selfish attitude without elucidating on how this might actually happen. I'd suggest the OP cares a damn sight more about not hurting his nieces feelings than any of these posters.

Absolam

If it helps at all OP, I am godfather to three children, and didn't attend any of their communions or confirmations, nor was I expected to. So if attending or participating in the ceremonies is your only issue then no need to worry; you're under no obligation in that regard.

If you're considering opting out of being godfather altogether, I'd say you have two things to consider.
The first is how binding the promises you made are on your own conscience; if not at all, then again no need to worry. If you feel it's up to someone else to allow you to be relieved of the obligation you could discuss it with the priest and parents, who will probably be understanding. If you feel your promise can only be discharged by fulfilling it, then that's what you have to do.
The second, and more significant to my mind, is how it affects your relationship with your niece and her parents. They obviously want you to be a significant influence in her life, which I would say is something you should be proud of. I think discussing with your sibling what that influence should be is by far and away the most important thing you should be considering right now. From my own experience the religious aspect is not likely to be the significant one for them.

frostyjacks

If Orangemen can bring themselves to attend a Catholic funeral, surely you can be at your niece's side for her Holy Communion and Confirmation.

http://m.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/elliott-no-kerr-funeral-regrets-26772971.html

Don't slight your family just to prove how virtuous you are. It would be a hollow victory.