Atheist godfather to niece for communion and confirmation.

Walter H Price

frostyjacks wrote: »

If Orangemen can bring themselves to attend a Catholic funeral, surely you can be at your niece's side for her Holy Communion and Confirmation.

http://m.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/elliott-no-kerr-funeral-regrets-26772971.html

Don't slight your family just to prove how virtuous you are. It would be a hollow victory.

+1 , i think this can be what annoys allot people about athiest's

Theres no need to be religious about not being religious , try ans separate the event from the church , a funeral a wedding , your nieces confirmation , its not about you or about the church its about the person or people you love/loved and showing your respect / support or being part of a day that's special to them in some way.

Don't pray , don't play Jesus says or go for the half time cracker , just be there for the family or the people who have asked you to their event.

Fian

I am a godfather to a niece and nephew of mine. I am an atheist.

Their communion and confirmation have not come up yet. When they do I will say whatever lines I am scripted to say. I just won't believe a word of it. Since i think that the ritual is a nonsense without any substance it is not a big deal for me to just go through the motions on it.

As far as I am concerned the sacraments are a nonsense. It costs me very little to participate though, if I actually thought there was any substance to the rituals I might find myself more conflicted (say if I were an adherent of another religion or something) but since I think they are entirely insignificant I figure it has far less impact on me to play along than it would have on the child for me to refuse to attend.

Similarly when I attend a wedding I "go along" with the ceremony, I stand when others stand. I don't do anything to draw attention to myself or make an issue of not being a believer. I tend to sit rather than kneel and I obviously don't take communion but other than that I sit there quietly and let them get on with it. Because the wedding is not about me or my beliefs it is about the happy couple.

Not believing doesn't mean you have an obligation to call out the rituals as nonsense. Out of consideration for the belief and feelings of others you can just let it wash over you and roll your eyes internally.

Take a similar approach as you do to Santa Claus - sometimes honesty is not the best policy.

smacl

Walter H Price wrote: »

+1 , i think this can be what annoys allot people about athiest's

Theres no need to be religious about not being religious , try ans separate the event from the church , a funeral a wedding , your nieces confirmation , its not about you or about the church its about the person or people you love/loved and showing your respect / support or being part of a day that's special to them in some way.

Don't pray , don't play Jesus says or go for the half time cracker , just be there for the family or the people who have asked you to their event.

Pretty much what the OP seems likely to do, and what the majority of other atheist posters on this thread have recommended and done themselves in similar situations. But hey, don't let the facts influence your beliefs. It's not like you're an atheist or anything... :rolleyes:

Walter H Price

smacl wrote: »

Pretty much what the OP seems likely to do, and what the majority of other atheist posters on this thread have recommended and done themselves in similar situations. But hey, don't let the facts influence your beliefs. It's not like you're an atheist or anything... :rolleyes:

i wasn't doing down atheist's far from it , just coming from personal experience i think allot of people can have a negative reaction when you tell them your an atheist because they automatically assume your going to be a dick about stuff like going to their wedding or being a kids confo sponsor etc..

I completely agree that 99% of the advice to the OP in thread has been go along for your Niece if asked as is to be expected given the vast majority of atheists i know myself included are not zealots about it. My advice to the OP was to just listen to the sensible moderate posts in here , support his niece if asked and don't be a dick.

robindch

frostyjacks wrote: »

If Orangemen can bring themselves to attend a Catholic funeral

You might let us know whether these excellent Orangemen joined in with a few hearty, full-throated Hail Mary's?

One wouldn't want to think for a moment that they'd draw attention to themselves, make the ceremony all about themselves or virtue-signal by keeping schtum when they could be praising Mary for being a virgin, being the mother of god and worth of special veneration and devotion.

robindch

Fian wrote: »

Take a similar approach as you do to Santa Claus - sometimes honesty is not the best policy.

And kids - being smart people, albeit short ones - can quite possibly tell that you're lying and will conclude that lying in public ceremonies is a good thing. Same for friends and family at the ceremony who will learn that the person doing the lying doesn't respect the ceremony.

Neither do all parents tell lies to their kids about Santa or the Tooth Fairy - some conceal the truth and some use it as an opportunity to encourage their kid to use think - that's the most rewarding option, but also the most difficult one so it's probably the least used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsR6sIsoWgU

Zubeneschamali

robindch wrote: »

they could be praising Mary for being a virgin, being the mother of god and worth of special veneration and devotion.

An important difference is that would be against their Protestant religion.

I don't have a religion for this nonsense to be against.

Qs

There is a respectful level of balance to living in a world where people have different beliefs. Attending the weddings of people of any religion and respecting their beliefs is the decent thing to do. Asking people who are not of your religion to partake actively in your religion of choice is IMO not respectful and should not be expected of anyone.

PraxisPete

I declined to be godfather to a cousin when I was in my late teens. It caused a small amount of offence at the time but I'm fairly pleased now that I did what I did. That family are rural Sunday mass goers and I'd imagine the communion and confirmation would have been very awkward affairs.

robindch

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't have a religion for this nonsense to be against.

And some people take honesty and responsibility for promises made just as seriously as others take their religion.

I'm unsure as to why this, rather crucial, point is being ignored.

jobbridge4life

PraxisPete wrote: »

I declined to be godfather to a cousin when I was in my late teens. It caused a small amount of offence at the time but I'm fairly pleased now that I did what I did. That family are rural Sunday mass goers and I'd imagine the communion and confirmation would have been very awkward affairs.

Why? I just don't get this at all.

You don't believe. Grand. That's it. You not believing doesn't mean you'll catch fire if you enter a church. It doesn't mean you have to object to anything said at these events. You can just go do your part and leave again.

I honestly don't get why this is an issue on any level and I mean that both ways, unless one is a zealot either direction.

robindch

^^^ What I'm getting from the above and many other posters is that it's fine to tell lies in public, regardless of whether it's just you who knows they're lies or whether the entire church and everybody in it knows they're lies.

Did Pope Frank or Jesus repeal that thing about "bearing false witness" and I just missed it or something?

meeeeh

robindch wrote: »

^^^ What I'm getting from the above and many other posters is that it's fine to tell lies in public, regardless of whether it's just you who knows they're lies or whether the entire church and everybody in it knows they're lies.

Did Pope Frank or Jesus repeal that thing about "bearing false witness" and I just missed it or something?

Well it's a sign of intelligence in kids to be able to lie. I positively encourage it. If godparents are supposed to be role models then it's perfect.

PraxisPete

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Why? I just don't get this at all.

You don't believe. Grand. That's it. You not believing doesn't mean you'll catch fire if you enter a church. It doesn't mean you have to object to anything said at these events. You can just go do your part and leave again.

I honestly don't get why this is an issue on any level and I mean that both ways, unless one is a zealot either direction.

I see the Catholic Church as a self serving vessel of intolerance and deceit. I did then and that was before all the various scandals.

I wouldn't want any part of any ceremony that gives weight to such an institution.

Maybe in an ironic way I am a zealot but i have far less of a proplem with the various versions of the Protestant faith after attending funerals and weddings in their church's.

robindch

meeeeh wrote: »

Well it's a sign of intelligence in kids to be able to lie. I positively encourage it.

Well, I try to teach my kid to think and to be honest.

Each to their own though.

jobbridge4life

PraxisPete wrote: »

I see the Catholic Church as a self serving vessel of intolerance and deceit. I did then and that was before all the various scandals.

I wouldn't want any part of any ceremony that gives weight to such an institution.

Maybe in an ironic way I am a zealot but i have far less of a proplem with the various versions of the Protestant faith after attending funerals and weddings in their church's.

So you wouldn't be a grooms man to your brother? Or help carry the coffin for your mother? (assuming these are Catholic ceremonies)

Standing in a church is not an endorsement of that church or everyone of its official beliefs.

Worztron

_Brian wrote: »

I think this whole thing is being taken way too literal...

Many many people don't go to church regularly but would call themselves christian and even catholic or protestant.. Many people have a religion on their own terms and choose what they believe in and on what grounds they associate themselves as catholic/protestant or whatever, that doesn't make them hypocrites, it just makes them themselves..

I would label myself catholic through tradition but my beliefs are actually more aligned with Church of Ireland beliefs, however religion is soooo far down on my list of priorities in life that I just muddle along as me and do the sorta "a la carte catholic" thing, go to mass an odd time, bit more at the moment as my youngest is making communion this year.. I'm certainly not a hypocrite, I'm not pretending to be anything I'm not..

I'll just come right out and say what I'm thinking, I think OP needs to get over themselves and their belief/non beliefs. OP is lucky to have a family that appreciate him enough to ask him to be part of their child's life, this should be embraced and make the best of it... big swing if OP has to suck it in and go along with the herd for the sacraments, this literally a 1 hour ceremony for communion, confirmation, wedding. three hours out of that childs life that you have to compromise your principals just a little but have the chance to be the godfather forever..

Its likely that child knows well you are the godfather and by backing out of that now your putting yourself before that 8 year old child's needs and that is all the child will see, you not wanting to be their godfather, and they won't understand why other than you possibly don't care.. I have an 8 year old, I know well how they think.

What I see is someone wanting to put their loathing of the church and how they feel WAY above what they feel for their family or neice/nephew. My brothers are godfathers for both my girls and if they did that I couldn't see it any other way. I see how my girls view their godparents as being that bit more than other relatives and its a really nice thing, I've three godchildren myself. It is what you make of it and in our family its not about religion, its about family ties.

Yes, I should turn up on the day and lie and be dishonest. That's a great way to act around my niece. :rolleyes:

I think it's you who should get over themselves -- and enough with this a la carte religion crap.

Worztron

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

If that's your attitude, then you're better off having a quiet word with your niece's parents now. If you're as angry as this, then you're going to ruin everyone's day when the time comes. There's a time and place to express your opinions. A kid's first holy communion is certainly not it. Also, you need to watch how far you go with your expression of atheism. You are in danger of becoming the angry pub bore, ready to bang on about religion and ram your beliefs down other people's throats.

Chances are she's going to start questioning it all in a few years anyway. At 8 or even 12, her perception of religion is nothing like it will be when she gets older and starts to think for herself. If this so-called brainwashing was as prevalent as you think it is, every church in the country would be bursting at the seams on Sundays. The Catholic Church is steadily but surely dying a death in Ireland and that's only going to accelerate over time.

Ram my beliefs down other people's throats. Now that is ironic.

Worztron

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I think I had to renounce Satan and all his works and all his empty promises. Pretty easy for an atheist to do.

Renounce a fictional character. FFS. The whole thing is a joke.

Worztron

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It'd accelerate even faster if non-believers stopped propping up its cultural influence.

Yeah but then they ask you to declare that you believe in god (godparent at a baptism)

Yes, the fake christians needs to cop themselves on. They either believe or don't. Just be honest.

At the baptism, I was not an atheist (more of a neutral) so it was no issue. Although I don't recall a 'believe in god' part but maybe it was too boring to pay much attention to.

jobbridge4life

Worztron wrote: »

Ram my beliefs down other people's throats. Now that is ironic.

It is indeed but not in the way you're thinking.

Worztron

frostyjacks wrote: »

He doesn't have to conform, merely put his niece's interests ahead of his own. It's really not that difficult.

Well done on oversimplifying things yet again there Jack. Are you christian btw?

Worztron

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well in fairness, you agreed to be their godparent therefore you signed up to this.

So how about you stop making the thing about yourself and just go to the child's big day? You don't have to turn water into wine here, you just need to be respectful. I assume you have attended weddings in your time, so really I don't see how this is all that different...

I'm not making this about myself. It's funny how the religious always expect others to bend to accommodate them.

I was at 1 wedding and it was non-religious.

frostyjacks

Worztron wrote: »

Yes, I should turn up on the day and lie and be dishonest. That's a great way to act around my niece. :rolleyes:

I think it's you who should get over themselves -- and enough with this a la carte religion crap.

Your duty is to your niece, not to the Church. Get your priorities right.

"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man." - Don Corleone.

spookwoman

Went to my god sons confirmation a while back and I am atheist. No issues except the few looks because I sat through it ignoring the standing and kneeling. My other nephew is a non believer and started doing the same as me when I said he doesn't have to kneel, stand etc if he doesn't believe.

Worztron

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Well lots of non-believers would have a difficulty with standing up in front of their family and friends and expressing belief in a religion, and especially with endorsing by their actions an organisation as vile as the RCC.

They have principles in other worlds. Time was, children were taught it was important to stand up for one's principles even in the face of opposition. Now, in this thread adults are being told to go along with the flow at all costs and not risk making a fuss. What message are the kids going to take from that?

Thank you HD!

Worztron

frostyjacks wrote: »

The message would be one of respect and tolerance. You think the Church is vile; you're allowed to hold that opinion. But you respect other people's beliefs enough to put those opinions to one side, and help them celebrate their day

It would be a very ugly society if people just did their own thing without giving a damn about anybody else, even their own blood.

I don't think the church is vile - I know it is vile. Have you already forgotten about the widespread pedophilia and cover-ups? Disgusting!

Again, the expectation that everyone should accommodate the religion ways. How'd you like to go to an atheist convention?

Worztron

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How is declining to be a godparent, when you don't believe in god, 'being a dick' exactly?

Exactly. Zubeneschamali does not get it.

Worztron

GerB40 wrote: »

Just go through the motions for the sake of your goddaughter. Decry satan and all the shyte because it's not your day, it's your goddaughter's, and opting out would likely embarrass her. I've done all those things as a card carrying atheist and I've never had a moral dilemma. I took part in a ritual that is part of the culture I grew up in, just not one I ascribe to. It's pretty simple when you put it like that..

Decry satan? I may as well decry the boogyman as well. :rolleyes:

Worztron

frostyjacks wrote: »

My opinion, my integrity...all I'm hearing from you is me, me, me. Do you respect your niece? You've a funny way of showing it.

I don't know what you think goes on in a Holy Communion/Confirmation, but it's really not a big deal. Certainly not worth dissing a child over. Can you not find another way to show how good an atheist you are?

You are hearing what you want to hear. Of course I respect her. My, you a re passive aggressive one aren't you.