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Atheist godfather to niece for communion and confirmation.

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    #212
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »
    Read the above, just go and enjoy the day, not a big deal

    And as per you previous post, most certainly tell her she's beautiful. Every little girl loves to hear that, and will likely remember it for far longer than anything else said in the church.


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    #213
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Qs wrote: »
    How many times do we have to deal with these false equivalences?
    At this point, I have to say that for people who devote a significant portion of their lives to following the written word, some religious are having the divil of a time with comprehension of English prose.


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    #214
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Qs wrote: »
    We don't have grown adults worshipping Santa. Santa worshippers don't have massive political influence. And your kid wont be rejected from a school because he doesn't worship Santa. Yawn.

    How many times do we have to deal with these false equivalences?

    If we want to talk about false equivalence lets start with the OP who seems to believe that indulging his siblings, request and being there for his niece through her various religious ceremonies is basically the same endorsing the dogma of the Catholic Church in all its minutia.

    I mean imagine if this was the other way round... and you had a Christian sibling refusing to attend the secular ceremonies of an atheist sibling's children, or even a child who was of a different faith?


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    #215
    Qs
    Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Qs


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    If we want to talk about false equivalence lets start with the OP who seems to believe that indulging his siblings, request and being there for his niece through her various religious ceremonies is basically the same endorsing the dogma of the Catholic Church in all its minutia.

    I mean imagine if this was the other way round... and you had a Christian sibling refusing to attend the secular ceremonies of an atheist sibling's children, or even a child who was of a different faith?

    No he didn't say that at all. He asked what was involved and said he didn't want to bless himself, etc So yeah imagine asking a devout catholic to go to another religions event and asking them to behave like they believe something else. It'd be completely out of order. OP just wanted confirmation (pardon the pun) on what he would be required to do if he attended.


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    #216
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    I mean imagine if this was the other way round... and you had a Christian sibling refusing to attend the secular ceremonies of an atheist sibling's children, or even a child who was of a different faith?

    Happened to me year before last when my father died. He ditched religion after bad experiences as a child and raised all of us atheist, while his sister and cousins remained staunch Catholics. None of them attended the secular funeral, being of the opinion that it wasn't a real or proper funeral with no religion involved. Most of them are quite elderly and of their generation, so while I don't hold it against them, I found it quite sad, more so for them to an extent than for myself and my siblings. My sisters mother in-law similarly refused to attend her secular wedding for the same reasons, and I notice there's another recent thread on here on the same subject.

    While this is all anecdotal, from what I've seen it is far more common for religious people to be intolerant of secular ceremonies that the reverse.


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    #217
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I never came across anyone boycotting funeral or wedding for religious or nonreligious reasons. I would have very low opinion of someone who would do that, especially if they are close to people getting married or to the deceased. It's selfish and self absorbed.


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    #218
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,906 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    smacl wrote: »
    I suspect for many kids, Jesus falls into the same category as Santa.

    Except Santa pays out.

    The Dublin Airport cap is damaging the economy of Ireland as a whole, and must be scrapped forthwith.



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    #219
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Except Santa pays out.

    From what I gather, when it comes to communions and confirmations, Jesus loves you for money too... ;)


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    #220
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,906 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    smacl wrote: »
    From what I gather, when it comes to communions and confirmations, Jesus loves you for money too... ;)

    But all the kids know it's their family giving them the money, not Jesus...

    The Dublin Airport cap is damaging the economy of Ireland as a whole, and must be scrapped forthwith.



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    #221
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    But all the kids know it's their family giving them the money, not Jesus...

    The cynic in me reckons they might just suspect about Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny too. For those three, it seems pretty obvious that traditional folk mythology is being propped by bribing children with gifts. Jesus it would seem is also being propped up here by bribing children. They're all dishonest, the only difference is the Jesus bribe is perpetuated by the Church for their own gain rather whereas largely consumerist festivals such Christmas are perpetuated by big business trying to sell us crap we don't need.

    As I've said, I'm all for instilling my children with a rich sense of fantasy and imagination, and have no problem with spoiling them with little treats or bribes on occasion either. I do however object to third parties of any description trying to manipulate them for their own gain. Youngest was somewhat envious of the loot some of her mates got at their confirmation, though taking herself and a few others out to see Lilly Allen a couple of weeks later seemed to make up for it and I suspect will remember fondly as the first big gig she went to for many years to come.


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    #222
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,707 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Doctor Shivering wrote: »
    So there is a line? What if the coffin has a cross on it ?

    I'd also have to check if there were splashes of "holy" water on it. Are you seriously comparing a funeral to a communion?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #223
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,707 ✭✭✭Worztron


    eviltwin wrote: »
    What exactly are you being asked to lie about? Just go and observe, you don't have to say or do anything. Get a few pics taken, give her a few quid and make a fuss over her. Is there some issue with that?

    I'd be ok of I had to say nothing and just sat at a pew (preferably at the back of the church). I've no issue with the photos and giving some cash.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #224
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,707 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Nobody on the entire planet cares if you "endorse" the catholic church or not, least of all the catholic church.

    It's like refusing to go outside in case someone thinks you are endorsing rain.

    What a stupid analogy.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #225
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Worztron wrote: »
    I'd be ok of I had to say nothing and just sat at a pew (preferably at the back of the church). I've no issue with the photos and giving some cash.

    Have you found out if you've been invited yet?


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    #226
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,707 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Absolam wrote: »
    Have you found out if you've been invited yet?

    No.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #227
    Qs
    Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Qs


    smacl wrote: »
    The cynic in me reckons they might just suspect about Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny too. For those three, it seems pretty obvious that traditional folk mythology is being propped by bribing children with gifts. Jesus it would seem is also being propped up here by bribing children. They're all dishonest, the only difference is the Jesus bribe is perpetuated by the Church for their own gain rather whereas largely consumerist festivals such Christmas are perpetuated by big business trying to sell us crap we don't need.

    As I've said, I'm all for instilling my children with a rich sense of fantasy and imagination, and have no problem with spoiling them with little treats or bribes on occasion either. I do however object to third parties of any description trying to manipulate them for their own gain. Youngest was somewhat envious of the loot some of her mates got at their confirmation, though taking herself and a few others out to see Lilly Allen a couple of weeks later seemed to make up for it and I suspect will remember fondly as the first big gig she went to for many years to come.

    I went to my first big gig in the same year as my confirmation. I remember loads about that gig (Guns n Roses in Slane) and very little about my confo apart from the Malcom X jumper and hat I got my Mammy to buy me to wear for the day (uniform for the ceremony). Don't even remember where we went that day.


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    #228
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »
    I am an atheist but was godfather to my niece last month, they told me there was much religion related stuff involving me...Well I was misinformed, they expected me to accept God created the earth, just sat there in silence refused to answer the yes I was supposed to

    It must have come as a huge shock to you to discover that as a willing participant in a Catholic sacrament you found that you would have to accept basic Catholic ideals.
    That really is outrageous.


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    #229
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,707 ✭✭✭Worztron


    In the end, I just gave a card with cash. Getting there was fine - a lift in a car but the location was too far away for me to get home (I'd have needed to get multiple buses home) and I was unwilling to stay over (no longer interested in booze filled chatter into the early hours).

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #230
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,379 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    infogiver wrote: »
    It must have come as a huge shock to you to discover that as a willing participant in a Catholic sacrament you found that you would have to accept basic Catholic ideals.

    You do not accept anything. You just smile and nod and go along with it


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    #231
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    You do not accept anything. You just smile and nod and go along with it

    Or smile and decline the invite on the basis that you don't believe in their God. ;)


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    #232
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,379 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    smacl wrote: »
    Or smile and decline the invite on the basis that you don't believe in their God. ;)

    The god part is irrelevant to any of the ones I've gone to. It is more seen as an honour thing to be involved in the childs life. I am Godfather twice over for example and would not dream of trying to impose anything on the children. Also going to a confimration next week. Niece is really looking forward to it as a day out - she has no interest in the god part. I see it as part of Irish tradition rather than a religious one. ence I have no problem enjoyinh Xmas or Easter as equaly religious folk have no qualms celebrating Hallowe'en (or Easter or Xmas ;) )


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    #233
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    It is more seen as an honour thing to be involved in the childs life.

    That or suckering someone into extra baby-sitting duties and a demand for jumbo size birthday and Christmas presents. I've a friend who is doing her damndest to avoid getting godmothered for these reasons at the moment. Needless to say, she's not religious and nobody seems to mind. Seems like more than a few of these good old Catholic traditions involve extorting mullah out of anyone who is seen as a soft touch. Paint me cynical, but its not a tradition I've any interest in getting schwifty with :)


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    #234
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,379 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Never had a problem with the babysitting part. Always happy to help someone out. That said the parents of my God children never took the piss. Wouldn't dream of charging anyone for babysitting though tbh. It is hardly demanding work


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    #235
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Never had a problem with the babysitting part. Always happy to help someone out. That said the parents of my God children never took the piss. Wouldn't dream of charging anyone for babysitting though tbh. It is hardly demanding work

    Agreed, once there's give and take. I've always enjoyed having nieces, nephews and friends kids for stay overs to give their parents some kid free time, and enjoyed that kid free time myself when they did the same for us. In this case however, the person asking my friend to be godmother has never actually made any of an effort with her kids. Could be exceptional but not the first time I've seen it. If you're going to do those things for the child anyway, why be god parent? If you're not, why be god parent?


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    #236
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,187 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Worztron wrote: »
    In the end, I just gave a card with cash. Getting there was fine - a lift in a car but the location was too far away for me to get home (I'd have needed to get multiple buses home) and I was unwilling to stay over (no longer interested in booze filled chatter into the early hours).

    So you turned down the invite to be her godfather on the basis of having to 'get multiple buses home' ?


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    #237
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,348 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Are you reading the same thread I am? In the OP he states pretty clearly he is already the godfather.


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    #238
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,187 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »
    Are you reading the same thread I am? In the OP he states pretty clearly he is already the godfather.

    My mistake-now that's something you don't hear too often round here. So he didn't attend his god daughters first communion on the basis of having to 'get multiple buses home'.


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    #239
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,348 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Sure. Logistics are a perfectly valid reason not to attend any event. I have myself missed a number of events I would have otherwise liked to attend because I could not work the logistics.


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    #240
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,187 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Just curious as to why he went to the bother of informing us that he has become an atheist, loathes religion, and would have a problem blessing himself if his participation was all down to the schedule of the 46A or whatever.


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    #241
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,348 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Perhaps logistics did not figure into his thread when he started the thread, but "in the end" (his exact words actually) it became the deciding factor.

    Things people know at the end of a thread, does not imply they knew them when they started in the thread.


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