VW emissions software update - disaster

privateBeavis

my VRS has the 170bhp engine, had a call about bringing it in for the "fix" but said I'd wait until I'm in for a service.
Reading this thread I think I'll request they leave well enough alone..!

They can't force everyone to update, so why would you bother is there is any chance of reduced performance. What are they going to do anyway move cars up a tax band that didn't get "fixed"... not likely.

.. by the way can you get the check the software versions somehow (via ODB perhaps) so can verify its not been updated?

Leprechaun77

I have a 170bhp variant due for service now....totally paranoid based on that graph above showing decreased performance in the lower bands. I am no expert but how can they come up with a solution to this problem and say it has no effect on performance....would they not have done this at outset if it were that easy?

Group-buy Dyno needed here.

gctest50

privateBeavis wrote: »

.........They can't force everyone to update,................

VW will have to comply, they'll have to get on to the insurance companies

There'll be a little ticky box on the insurance website "Is your car running offical firmware/software etc"

Once they get it in writing, game over if you have it re-mapped and you crash

ABC101

Even if you got the car dyn'od before the update VW could still refuse to accept it as they would be unlikely to accept the test results of some independent tester.

They would insist using their technician, on their machine at a time and place of their choosing etc

In addition VW could also argue that a 7 year old car is not going to produce the same performance as a new car.

Another cop out would be is that the performance drop is due to some other technical issue I.e dirty DPF or blocked manifold or faulty egr valve turbo problem or what not etc. If you want your GTD back you are going to have to spend lots more money on our spares etc.

VW only fessed up when confronted by proven, verifiable, repeatable test data and only then after a prolonged period of browbeating by the relevant legal authorities who started grinding and grinding and grinding until VW broke.

You have my sympathy, but if I were you I'd just move on the car quickly, or else go in with some class action law suit etc

I just don't think it's worth the hassle for a 7 year old car, but that's just my opinion.

Coincidentally, would you buy a VW again or change to a BMW etc? If they offered you a good trade in would you accept it for a newer one?

Golfgorfield

ABC101 wrote: »

Even if you got the car dyn'od before the update VW could still refuse to accept it as they would be unlikely to accept the test results of some independent tester.

They would insist using their technician, on their machine at a time and place of their choosing etc

In addition VW could also argue that a 7 year old car is not going to produce the same performance as a new car.

Another cop out would be is that the performance drop is due to some other technical issue I.e dirty DPF or blocked manifold or faulty egr valve turbo problem or what not etc. If you want your GTD back you are going to have to spend lots more money on our spares etc.

VW only fessed up when confronted by proven, verifiable, repeatable test data and only then after a prolonged period of browbeating by the relevant legal authorities who started grinding and grinding and grinding until VW broke.

You have my sympathy, but if I were you I'd just move on the car quickly, or else go in with some class action law suit etc

I just don't think it's worth the hassle for a 7 year old car, but that's just my opinion.

Coincidentally, would you buy a VW again or change to a BMW etc? If they offered you a good trade in would you accept it for a newer one?

I only got the car in November, after months of looking for a good one!

7yr old car it may be, but at 60,000 miles with a Full VWSH its a damn goof 7 year old car that i paid top dollar for. I am entitled to have the car back as i left it with the garage as per their written confirmation!

privateBeavis

gctest50 wrote: »

VW will have to comply, they'll have to get on to the insurance companies

There'll be a little ticky box on the insurance website "Is your car running offical firmware/software etc"

Once they get it in writing, game over if you have it re-mapped and you crash

I'm hoping nobody cares enough to go to the trouble of having a consequence if people don't update!
So on that note I'll just refuse the update until the ticky box materializes
Car is 7yr old so I'll probably change in next few years.

ABC101

Golfgorfield wrote: »

ABC101 wrote: »

Even if you got the car dyn'od before the update VW could still refuse to accept it as they would be unlikely to accept the test results of some independent tester.

They would insist using their technician, on their machine at a time and place of their choosing etc

In addition VW could also argue that a 7 year old car is not going to produce the same performance as a new car.

Another cop out would be is that the performance drop is due to some other technical issue I.e dirty DPF or blocked manifold or faulty egr valve turbo problem or what not etc. If you want your GTD back you are going to have to spend lots more money on our spares etc.

VW only fessed up when confronted by proven, verifiable, repeatable test data and only then after a prolonged period of browbeating by the relevant legal authorities who started grinding and grinding and grinding until VW broke.

You have my sympathy, but if I were you I'd just move on the car quickly, or else go in with some class action law suit etc

I just don't think it's worth the hassle for a 7 year old car, but that's just my opinion.

Coincidentally, would you buy a VW again or change to a BMW etc? If they offered you a good trade in would you accept it for a newer one?

I only got the car in November, after months of looking for a good one!

7yr old car it may be, but at 60,000 miles with a Full VWSH its a damn goof 7 year old car that i paid top dollar for. I am entitled to have the car back as i left it with the garage as per their written confirmation!

Yeah....o.k. I see your point!.....

Toyotafanboi

ABC101 wrote: »

From the EVO website article I looked up, they state 0-60 in 7.5 seconds, 181 bhp and 45 mpg.
Are you getting anywhere near those figures?
Or has power gone down but your fuel efficiency increased?
Unless you get proper real world verifiable / proven figures it is very hard to tell exactly, even if you know from driving the car it's characteristics have changed dramatically.
Going back to VW and stating that the car is not the same because it just feels different is not going to cut the mustard.
You would have to get repeatable / verifiable / proven figures for the engine's performance and have them plotted / compared to what the design parameters are supposed to be.
Then you could go back to VW and state I am being cheated twice, the first time I bought the car, the second time now that the car is updated.
If you are correct, sounds like you have gone from a GTD to a D.

That's probably the most logical post on thread.

millington

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's even more ridiculous when you see what the Americans are getting in compensation for the SAME issue.

But then, VW is German and no doubt contributes significantly to their tax take, Germany runs the EU, so.........


As an aside though, is it ALL VW group cars sold during a given period that are affected, regardless of engine size? My A6 being an import means I'll never get a letter (thankfully it seems!) but as it's a 2010 I'm guessing it might be affected as well?

I brought in a 2014 A6 from the UK last year and got a letter about the software upgrade a few months back

joeysoap

Ia friend of mine got the letter few weeks ago. Was going to have it done along with service now in Feby. 1.6 Jetta automatic (second hand, previous owner needed automatic) lovely car, basically a bigger golf with a bigger boot IMO, reading this would he be better off refusing the fix? I know there's probably no set answer, but it's due an NCT later in the year and by then the fix might be mandatory. Little loss of power wouldn't affect him, nearly all motorway driving.

joujoujou

OSI wrote: »

They already ask you to confirm the vehicle isn't modified from it's factory specification.

Refusing aforementioned emissions update would still leave factory specification in.

Special Circumstances

joeysoap wrote: »

Ia friend of mine got the letter few weeks ago. Was going to have it done along with service now in Feby. 1.6 Jetta automatic (second hand, previous owner needed automatic) lovely car, basically a bigger golf with a bigger boot IMO, reading this would he be better off refusing the fix? I know there's probably no set answer, but it's due an NCT later in the year and by then the fix might be mandatory. Little loss of power wouldn't affect him, nearly all motorway driving.

This cannot be said too often or too loudly, or perhaps even too slowly.

The NCT cannot tell from it's farcical diesel "emissions" test if you have had this fix or not.

They cannot tell if you were producing more NOx than 100 "dieselgate" VWs.

The NCT emissions test is like something for a Victorian steam train. It has no place whatsoever in a modern car testing environment. At least not as the SOLE test of a cars emissions.

The emissions this fix relates to are not tested by the NCT. The emissions in question are not even regarded as "real" emissions by the Green party.

You could have your DPF professionally removed and your EGR blanked and your car remapped to it's absolute limit and pass the NCT diesel "emissions" test.


If anything this fix could push toward rather than away from the fail limit for laughable NCT emissions test as running richer to produce less NOx might produce more black smuts. You'd still be miles away from failing though.

ABC101

Yeah... I see what you mean by paying top dollar... looking on CarsIreland there is a 2010 GTD for 15.5K.
Damn right you are pi**ed off.

Golfgorfield

ABC101 wrote: »

Yeah... I see what you mean by paying top dollar... looking on CarsIreland there is a 2010 GTD for 15.5K.
Damn right you are pi**ed off.

Yep they're not cheap!
Mine is DSG with heated leather, adj suspension, satnav, climate, sensors and a Full main dealer history!

I paid less than that but its still huge money, albeit they're a fantastic car to drive, sorry were!!

Golfgorfield

So the main dealer has phoned me to say they have checked the car and all is 100% no faults and its fine.

He told me its not down on power at all, i asked was it tested on a rolling road, his reply "no, one of the lads drove it he said its not down on power" i politely asked does this lad know power outputs just from driving a car, his reply was no but hes driven loads of GTD's.

Hes never driven mine though, before and after the update so a drive wont tell anyone anything.

Ive since phoned VW Ireland and was told they will ask for a tech report and test drive the car again... ff sake.

My last words with the "customer service agent, who didnt know what BHP meant" was I am not collecting my car until im satisfied its performing as it was pre update, as per your letter.

Her reply was as expected "thats not something i can comment on" (she said this about 20 times in 10mins.


Anyone wanna buy a 110BHP golf GTD????

gctest50

fairly dismal - down 50%

Golfgorfield

gctest50 wrote: »

fairly dismal

What is this???

ABC101

Golfgorfield wrote: »

ABC101 wrote: »

Yeah... I see what you mean by paying top dollar... looking on CarsIreland there is a 2010 GTD for 15.5K.
Damn right you are pi**ed off.

Yep they're not cheap!
Mine is DSG with heated leather, adj suspension, satnav, climate, sensors and a Full main dealer history!

I paid less than that but its still huge money, albeit they're a fantastic car to drive, sorry were!!

Well, the only thing I can advise is that you attempt to measure the car against what it is supposed to do, i.e. a rough 0 to 60 test etc, fuel economy and so on.   It could well be a slower car, but perhaps not too much slower?
However if you are fully certain that it is not the same car and you value a bit of performance then you are either looking at trading it in for another updated VW which is updated and sporty or else taking a hit and going for a different make.
Nearly all manufacturers have their lemons and trying to get a car which is reliable is a bit like Russian Roulette.
TBH, I am a bit surprised you went for a VW given the scandal over emissions, but perhaps that's just me being a crusty old cynic.

gctest50

Golfgorfield wrote: »

What is this???

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AII8a0cFXX1v3Qs&cid=B6B727C7F19316F7&id=B6B727C7F19316F7%212722&parId=B6B727C7F19316F7%21104&o=OneUp


from

Buffmans post here :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=102546685

jones

My 2 litre Diesel 110bhp Golf has to get the emissions fix i've a letter from local VW dealer to call in "whenever suits". The car is 2009 highline model and in great condition and have never had any issues with it. I didnt even think about the software fix negatively affecting the performance of the car. I thought all along this cheat only kicked in when the engine detected the testing machine being hooked up to it and regulated the engine accordingly? Am i wrong? I was going to get the fix done at the next service. Given the age of the car i'll be changing it in the next year regardless

Special Circumstances

As the original version of that graphic shows, the dyno'd car was well down right where it counts for day to day driving.
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AII8a0cFXX1v3Qs&cid=B6B727C7F19316F7&id=B6B727C7F19316F7%212722&parId=B6B727C7F19316F7%21104&o=OneUp

0-60 and mpg are all well and good but if the OP's car has been castrated to the same extent in the same rpm range... it's never gonna feel the same. There's no better way appreciating the power of a good car than to take a spin in a less powerful one.... but it looks like VW have given the OP that experience without the prospect of sitting back into his old "powerful" car.

Remap it to f**k and get the EGR and DPF deleted while you're at it.

Toyotafanboi

Golfgorfield wrote: »

So the main dealer has phoned me to say they have checked the car and all is 100% no faults and its fine.

He told me its not down on power at all, i asked was it tested on a rolling road, his reply "no, one of the lads drove it he said its not down on power" i politely asked does this lad know power outputs just from driving a car, his reply was no but hes driven loads of GTD's.

Hes never driven mine though, before and after the update so a drive wont tell anyone anything.

Ive since phoned VW Ireland and was told they will ask for a tech report and test drive the car again... ff sake.

My last words with the "customer service agent, who didnt know what BHP meant" was I am not collecting my car until im satisfied its performing as it was pre update, as per your letter.

Her reply was as expected "thats not something i can comment on" (she said this about 20 times in 10mins.


Anyone wanna buy a 110BHP golf GTD????

You've contradicted yourself a lot there.

You ask was the car tested on a rolling road to check if it was down on power, but what use would a retrospective rolling road test be with no pre update results. You'l just make yourself look irrational requesting unreasonable things like this which will only get the backs up of the people you are dealing with.

You asked did the technician know power outputs purely from driving a car as if this is not possible, but you are claiming yourself that you can tell from "feeling" alone that it is?

You say a drive won't tell anyone anything anyway, but a drive has told you everything you think you know.

You need to at least not contradict yourself so badly if you are going to fight this.

You need to focus your efforts. Go to 2x independent rolling road operators and get 2 sets of figures for your car. See if both figures are consistent with one another and considerably removed from manufacturers quoted specs (adjusting for 3x years of wear and tear).

It might cost you a few quid, but if you're serious about pursuing this, 2 independent assessments of your cars power, printed in black and white will give you a good basis to create attention where you want it.

Whether it be right or wrong, going back to your dealer and saying my butt dyno says the car is a bit slower not will simply not get you anywhere. It could be the placebo effect from yours or their point of view. You must surely understand that fact even if you chose not to accept it?

robtri

Golfgorfield wrote: »

So the main dealer has phoned me to say they have checked the car and all is 100% no faults and its fine.

He told me its not down on power at all, i asked was it tested on a rolling road, his reply "no, one of the lads drove it he said its not down on power" i politely asked does this lad know power outputs just from driving a car, his reply was no but hes driven loads of GTD's.

Hes never driven mine though, before and after the update so a drive wont tell anyone anything.

Ive since phoned VW Ireland and was told they will ask for a tech report and test drive the car again... ff sake.

My last words with the "customer service agent, who didnt know what BHP meant" was I am not collecting my car until im satisfied its performing as it was pre update, as per your letter.

Her reply was as expected "thats not something i can comment on" (she said this about 20 times in 10mins.


Anyone wanna buy a 110BHP golf GTD????

what pre update information about your car do you have?
I assume you have a pre update rolling road test and results to compare to if you are asking for an after test rolling road test.

what is your basis for saying its down on power?

bear1

If you were in the US you would either be offered a buy back, compensation or huge discounts on changing the car.
In Ireland... "ah well, tis grand sure seamus drove it there to Aldi and back and it was flying".

Special Circumstances

bear1 wrote: »

If you were in the US you would either be offered a buy back, compensation or huge discounts on changing the car.
In Ireland... "ah well, tis grand sure seamus drove it there to Aldi and back and it was flying".

"VARE IST YOUR PROOF!!"

benny79

So what is everyones general consensus get the update done or leave well alone?

After hearing of Op's issues I think I'll Leave mine or can you ask them for a print out before and after? but they will hardly do that if they know there's issues with an update.

I have a long commute to work and I dont want to get an update that will cost me money as the fuel efficiency wont be as good!

bazz26

After 6 pages of this thread do you really still have to ask that question?

kay 9

Ze Germans have everyone fooled with everything from their cars to the eu. :pac:

KCross

bear1 wrote: »

If you were in the US you would either be offered a buy back, compensation or huge discounts on changing the car.
In Ireland... "ah well, tis grand sure seamus drove it there to Aldi and back and it was flying".

My understanding is that they broke a law in the US hence the massive compensation over there.

Since we (in the EU) dont track/test the same emissions as the US no law was actually broken here, hence no compensation. The fix here is just to be seen to be good and taking responsibility but legally they didnt have to do it.... at least thats how I understood it.

Wheeliebin30

KCross wrote: »

My understanding is that they broke a law in the US hence the massive compensation over there.

Since we (in the EU) dont track/test the same emissions as the US no law was actually broken here, hence no compensation. The fix here is just to be seen to be good and taking responsibility but legally they didnt have to do it.... at least thats how I understood it.

So why bother with the fix at all????

bear1

bazz26 wrote: »

After 6 pages of this thread do you really still have to ask that question?

Literally laughed my hole off :pac:

zilog_jones

KCross wrote: »

My understanding is that they broke a law in the US hence the massive compensation over there.

Since we (in the EU) dont track/test the same emissions as the US no law was actually broken here, hence no compensation. The fix here is just to be seen to be good and taking responsibility but legally they didnt have to do it.... at least thats how I understood it.

EU type approval has similar emissions tests for NOx and particulates as the US, but not as stringent. I believe the German Federal Motor Transport Authority declared that VW were cheating on the NEDC emissions tests and declared a recall, which started the EU-wide recall. VW are liable for some sort of penalty for using a "defeat device" to pass NEDC tests, but I don't think anything's happened there (motor industry have too much influence on the EU, conflict of interests, etc.).

The big difference between here and the US are the legal systems - punitive damages and class action suits exist over there, whereas they do not here. VW saw taking back cars or financially compensating owners as the cheaper solution in the US.

VW also believed that software updates could achieve Euro 5 emissions legitimately, whereas US EPA emissions tests would require more significant/expensive modification to the cars - another reason that made just taking the cars off the road altogether a more viable option.

KCross

zilog_jones wrote: »

EU type approval has similar emissions tests for NOx and particulates as the US, but not as stringent. I believe the German Federal Motor Transport Authority declared that VW were cheating on the NEDC emissions tests and declared a recall, which started the EU-wide recall. VW are liable for some sort of penalty for using a "defeat device" to pass NEDC tests, but I don't think anything's happened there (motor industry have too much influence on the EU, conflict of interests, etc.).

The big difference between here and the US are the legal systems - punitive damages and class action suits exist over there, whereas they do not here. VW saw taking back cars or financially compensating owners as the cheaper solution in the US.

VW also believed that software updates could achieve Euro 5 emissions legitimately, whereas US EPA emissions tests would require more significant/expensive modification to the cars - another reason that made just taking the cars off the road altogether a more viable option.

I was close enough!

I did read that the fact they have initiated a recall in the EU and that that recall addresses the issue it means they are less likely to be sued as its just a recall like any other recall which happens all the time.

They should have to pay a penalty to the EU for cheating though, but its very unlikely that owners will get anything in the EU since the issue is "fixed" once you get the software update.

The only way an owner will get anything in the EU is if they can prove significant loss of value as a direct result of the cheat. I'd say that will be almost impossible to prove.

Buffman

benny79 wrote: »

So what is everyones general consensus get the update done or leave well alone?

Have a read of the comments below this article and see what you think then.

Well over 100 recent comments there with various detrimental consequences across most VAG models. I know some VAG fanboys here will demand empirical evidence of any issue, but the fact remains that VAG are proven liars regarding these emission issues. So what makes anyone think they'll be honest about any 'fix' related issues now?

ml100 wrote: »

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/volkswagen-emissions-scandal/8-reports-of-volkswagen-tiguans-losing-power-after-ea189-emissions-fix/

I think this chap summed it up nicely.

Mike7777 2 days ago
If you haven't yet taken your car in for the emissions fix, do not do it. There's nothing wrong with it now and you don't have to have it done. If you do there is a very strong likelihood that you will have problems or reduced performance and you will not be believed that there is a link, and you'll be on your own. Mega stress and expense will quickly follow.

Moanin

My 2011 A6 TDI was done and there's no difference whatsoever....

Vicxas

Golfgorfield wrote: »

Current situation is the car is now back in the main dealer, they have provided a high spec replacement car and have told me they are going to fully investigate and test drive the car.

the test drive will as i pointed out be pointless as they have nothing to compare it to....

I've a feeling im going to be disappointed, but im determined to put up a hell of a fight for some kind of resolution.

The problem is, what proof do you have the car is down on power and pull?

Golfgorfield

Vicxas wrote: »

The problem is, what proof do you have the car is down on power and pull?

Of course that is my problem. Have you read the full thread?

zilog_jones

Auto Motor und Sport did a before and after test with a 2.0 TDI Amarok (Google Translate makes it mostly readable):

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/vw-diesel-update-amarok-leistung-gleich-gut-verbrauch-leicht-erhoeht-10551733.html

They noticed no significant difference with performance, except fuel consumption increased by about 0.5 l/100km. Also NOx was not any lower in real world driving.

Of course the software update was only required to make the cars pass the NEDC test (on a rolling road, in a lab) without any discernible cheating - it by no means had to make the car perform any better under any other conditions. If these results are consistent among all the recalled VWs, even from a purely environmental perspective it won't really fix anything and is bound to make something worse for you - either with performance or fuel consumption.

Vicxas

Golfgorfield wrote: »

Of course that is my problem. Have you read the full thread?

Gave myself a Tl;DR alright. :P

Noccy_Mondy

I got my 09 GT 140 done back in November. Was in for an unrelated issue, they kind of got me on the hop, so I got it done, without reading into it. Thankfully, I notice no difference to the way it drives. That said, knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't get it done... if it ain't broke.....

benny79

Buffman wrote: »

Have a read of the comments below this article and see what you think then.

Well over 100 recent comments there with various detrimental consequences across most VAG models. I know some VAG fanboys here will demand empirical evidence of any issue, but the fact remains that VAG are proven liars regarding these emission issues. So what makes anyone think they'll be honest about any 'fix' related issues now?



I think this chap summed it up nicely.[/QUOT

Cheers Buffman, God thats unbelievable stuff! how is this not making the news!! and how are VW getting away with it! They can sing for my car cause I won't be going near them..

Wonda-Boy

Was due to get my 2012 Highline done in the morning, but I think I will have an extra hour in bed now after reading this stuff.

[URL="[url=https://imgflip.com/i/1jacpn][img]https://i.imgflip.com/1jacpn.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://imgflip.com/memegenerator]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/url]"][/url]via Imgflip Meme Generator

Buffman

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Was due to get my 2012 Highline done in the morning, but I think I will have an extra hour in bed now after reading this stuff.

An extra hour in bed sounds a lot more desirable than playing russian roulette with your engine performance alright. Good decision.

Cee-Jay-Cee

George Dalton wrote: »

Or maybe just realise that you've done something a bit stupid and take the steps needed to reverse the outcome.

If people just used their brain for 10 seconds they would realise this is a no win scenario.

Consider the following proposal:
You give me €50.

The very best outcome you can expect from this transaction is that I give you back €50

But there is no guarantee that I will give you back €50, it might be €49, it might be €45, but I won't tell you in advance, you'll just have to wait and see.

Who in their right mind would accept that deal? Nobody. And yet people are going to VW dealers in their droves to have this "fix" carried out.

I just can't get my head around it.....

That's actually a quite complicated way of looking at it. It's much simpler, if this 'fix' does nothing to effect performance or economy and merely brings emissions in line with EU regulations then it would have been done at the factory from the start but it does effect performance and economy and people are now finding that out.

A friend of mine asked for my opinion on getting his Passat done and I asked him if he was happy with the way the car currently drives and performs and he said yes so I asked why would you do anything that will most likely change that?

VW cannot possibly claim that a completely different ECU map which changes emissions is not going to effect anything else i.e. Performance or economy...yet they do.

Wonda-Boy

Buffman wrote: »

An extra hour in bed sounds a lot more desirable than playing russian roulette with your engine performance alright. Good decision.

Yeah, absolutely. And mine is the higher 180BHP or whatever, so I am happy currently with performance.

Golfgorfield

So the latest update.

VW claim my car was "chipped" when i brought it into them thats why i feel its slow now.
Even though when i bought the car it felt just like the other GTDs i test drove, i would certainly have noticed if it was chipped. I spoke to the previous owner, he assured me it was standard.

I accepted their explanation as i am planning on remapping myself now anyway.
However when i asked them for the technical report they did, they told me they dont give out that information.

So they updated my software, then had a VW technician come down to do a further inspection, all of which was sent to VW HQ which they have ruled the car is performing up top manufacturer guidelines.
And as the owner of the car im not entitled to have a report on their investigations and findings.

It angers me they are now refusing to provide me with a report of what they did/investigated/results.
Im literally to take their word for it.

Im done with them now, my car is heading to Daltons asap for some actual genuine VW care.


This has ended my dealings with any VW dealers or their company, its my last ever VW and thats for sure.


ANYONE THAT GETS THE LETTER PUT IT IN THE BIN AND DONT RISK THE DROP IN PERFORMANCE.

bazz26

It's gas that they claim the car was remapped prior to the fix yet will not produce proof of their findings to make the claim.

I know what you mean by being done with them and moving on but I'd still put it to them on their social media outlets such as facebook and twitter so at least it might alert other owners who were thinking of bringing their car into be "fixed". Social Media perception is normally important to these companies.

zilog_jones

I bet they did no real technical examination - they're not going to gain anything out of it by doing so. Unfortunately, with no hard evidence to back up your claims, it's your word against theirs and it will be difficult to prove anything. VW just want to tick some boxes to claim they made their best efforts to make their vehicles legal by EU type approval standards - they clearly don't give a shít about customers.

CalamariFritti

Common sense will tell you that you cannot expect to have this fix applied and the car to be the exact same after. If that was possible then they wouldn't have to cheat in the first place. Something's got to give.

So as an owner of an affected car you will have to make a decision. Screw the emissions and have nothing done to the car or be 'compliant' with something nobody will ever pull you over for and live with reduced performance/efficiency/whatever.

I know what I'd do.

Are VW actually claiming the fix will neither affect performance nor efficiency?

bear1

I wonder, could you have cause for legal challenges?