VW emissions software update - disaster

evais

My a3 1.6 had the emissions update two weeks ago. My egr cooler failed following this, the very same day! Car towed to dealer and provided with a rental. I am still waiting to get my car back. Apparently this part is on backorder. I ring the dealer every second day to keep on top of them. Is it normal to have to wait this long for a part?

Gwynston

As far as I'm aware, they had to order the parts for our 1.6 Golf (the whole EGR assembly I think, even though it was just the Cooler broken) when we dropped it in last Monday (Apr 27th) and we got it back before the end of the week.

evais

It's interesting how your dealer was able to source the parts but mine is telling me that the part is on backorder for the whole of vw/audi/seat. I just want my car back. I miss it!

KCross

If the EGR is working harder after the update, what would seriously worry me about these EGR failures is that even if VW put in a new one FOC, it seems to me that it is much more likely to fail again in the not too distant future and probably not covered under warranty then.

So, unless the replacement EGR's are better in some way the new one will prematurely fail as well. It doesnt inspire confidence in buying a VW diesel.

Gwynston

We've been given a 2-year warranty on the newly-fitted EGR. But I don't think we'll be keeping the car that long - my wife wants shot of it after her experience! :rolleyes:

For the record, our Golf was 6 years old with 93,000km when the EGR Cooler went (6 weeks after the emissions update).

Dinging

Dinging wrote: »

I'm due NCT on a VW CC 2.0l bluemotion next week. I am also due the software upgrade, I have the letter but it won't be happening while I own the car...ever. I will confirm if I am asked about the upgrade at the NCT but I would be confident this is fake news.

Update. NCT passed with no issue or mention on emissions. Under the Smoke section of the cert car recorded a 0.000 /m reading limit is 1.50 /m. I did ask the mechanic about the software upgrade just to see what he'd say. Response was "car's perfect don't be messin' around with it". Thats good enough for me!!!

mossy50

certainly wont be getting VW update 2013 Passat 1.6 car is going without it

petertheheater

Just had my 2012 2.0 TDI Passat software update and I wish I read all these reports sooner.

Since the "update" the cooling fans stay on for about 8 minutes after turning the engine off and you can smell the heat from the engine. Fuel consumption has also been affected, all this and I only had it done on Friday.

I will be going back to them on Tuesday to see if I can have the update reversed.

Golfgorfield

petertheheater wrote: »

Just had my 2012 2.0 TDI Passat software update and I wish I read all these reports sooner.

Since the "update" the cooling fans stay on for about 8 minutes after turning the engine off and you can smell the heat from the engine. Fuel consumption has also been affected, all this and I only had it done on Friday.

I will be going back to them on Tuesday to see if I can have the update reversed.

Im afraid you may be told the same as i was and it cannot be reversed.

I had the old software put back on mine by a VW specialist independent dealer for €70.
PM Me for details.

lau1247

Golfgorfield wrote: »

Im afraid you may be told the same as i was and it cannot be reversed.

I had the old software put back on mine by a VW specialist independent dealer for €70.
PM Me for details.

Can you PM me also with the detail of the VW specialist independent dealer?

I mentioned before in other similar thread that I didn't know whether the update was carried out or not but my MPG dropped by a good bit after I got my A4 serviced in January (Also timing belt change at the time).

Oddly enough, the MPG started to come back to pre-service level lately (about 2 months ago) and has been quite consistent. Not sure how to explain what is happening in the background but I guess best to get an indy to have a look and see if the update was indeed carried out and whether it need to be reversed for my own piece of mind.

millington

petertheheater wrote: »

Since the "update" the cooling fans stay on for about 8 minutes after turning the engine off and you can smell the heat from the engine.

We've a 2014 A6 2.0 TDi here and it does that now aswell. Very strange.

Hotdog2017

Hi, I am looking to see if anyone knows who/where I can get a person it reinstall the pre-upgrade software. Not looking to remap the car as I am afraid it will affect insurance. Just want my old car back. Since the update was done the car is performing poorly and now I'm afraid that other things like EGR will start failing and cost a lot of money to repair.
Regret ever getting this done.
Please help
Cork area

Odyssey 2005

Had my car Superb 2.0 done last Tuesday. Fookin disaster. Car was a rocket ship, wouldn't pull fook all now.. heavy on fuel,I'm afraid to tow the caravan now. To beat it all the erg thingy is working overtime,smells like rotten eggs most of the time. I NWVER noticed this before (8 years and 330 k:(). Engine management lights keep coming on now so back to the garage tomorrow...again.
MY ADVICE IS TO STEER CLEAR OF THIS CRAP UPDATE.

colm_mcm

Can't see how people are still getting this done with all the bad reports out there.

ml100

colm_mcm wrote: »

Can't see how people are still getting this done with all the bad reports out there.

I refused to get my golf done earlier in the year when it was in for its service, looks like a good call now, I never believed the original emissions scandal would affect the secondhand value of these cars but I think with all these horror stories of the problems people are having after the fixes I'd say the demand and value of these cars secondhand will be affected.

Dinging

ml100 wrote: »

I refused to get my golf done earlier in the year when it was in for its service, looks like a good call now, I never believed the original emissions scandal would affect the secondhand value of these cars but I think with all these horror stories of the problems people are having after the fixes I'd say the demand and value of these cars secondhand will be affected.

Would hope that not having the update done would be an extra selling point. Strange logic I know but that's what makes sense to me considering the impact of having it done. VW group don't care. Share price has bounced back and they will fight this in Europe. We need some US style laws here to protect customers. Also lots of shenanigans going on with the case that is being taken against them in Ireland, https://fora.ie/volkswagen-mayo-emissions-2981607-Sep2016/ My advice for anyone thinking of doing this AVOID at all costs!!!

benny79

ml100 wrote: »

I refused to get my golf done earlier in the year when it was in for its service, looks like a good call now, I never believed the original emissions scandal would affect the secondhand value of these cars but I think with all these horror stories of the problems people are having after the fixes I'd say the demand and value of these cars secondhand will be affected.

There already effected I have a 09 Passat highline all the bells and whistles 140bhp.. I paid ?12,000 3 years ago. I have seen some on done deal going for ?3000.. So much for vw for holding their valve! And I haven't and won't get the update done.. If its not broke and all that....

Henry Ford III

You'd wonder why are VW doing these "fixes" if all they do is to adversely affect the cars?

Wibbs

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You'd wonder why are VW doing these "fixes" if all they do is to adversely affect the cars?

By tweaking the software to allow the apparently bad reigned hardware run differently so it can sneak under emissions regulations. Damn the customer.

jackofalltrades

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You'd wonder why are VW doing these "fixes" if all they do is to adversely affect the cars?

So they can avoid any possibly larger penalty.
They're doing the bare minimum to keep politicians onside.

And they can afford to screw over their customers due to blind brand loyalty.
Sales or secondhand values don't see to be affected at all.

tonic wine

If buying a car second hand, is there any way of telling if it has had the software update? Looking at buying 13 2.0 superb.

jackofalltrades

tonic wine wrote: »

If buying a car second hand, is there any way of telling if it has had the software update? Looking at buying 13 2.0 superb.

https://campaigncheck.ie/

Sam Russell

jackofalltrades wrote: »

https://campaigncheck.ie/

Checked my car and its been upgraded but I did not ask or even know. Car is shuddering at start off - feels like a clutch fault.

Buffman

Sam Russell wrote: »

Checked my car and its been upgraded but I did not ask or even know. Car is shuddering at start off - feels like a clutch fault.

Earlier in this thread I quoted a chap in the comments from the honestjohn page on this, if you check his dyno graph you'll get an idea of what the possible cause of that is. (a lot less power at lower RPMs)

Buffman wrote: »

One of the guys in those comments found a chap who'd dynoed a 2.0 A5 before and after. Some substantial losses of power and torque between 1600-2600 RPM according to his data.

BigAndyG on 5 December 2016
I had good look around on the web after my second (ignored) reminder and found someone who had actually had his car dynoed before and after the update. I too do not know why none of the motoring press or Watchdog or... haven't done this. Anyway the results are quite damning and back up a lot of what has been said here about ~1500-2500 rpm and loss of power and torque. I have graphed these plots (as best I can) and that's exactly what they seem to show. I sent them to Audi and they wouldn't engage on showing me their test data but just trotted out the old "maximum torque is not affected" line - which is true but very misleading for driveability etc.They also mention an increased EGR rate! I've put the graphs at this link:

1drv.ms/b/s!AvcWk_HHJ7e2lSKCPGtHBV19b90L

TitianGerm

benny79 wrote: »

There already effected I have a 09 Passat highline all the bells and whistles 140bhp.. I paid ?12,000 3 years ago. I have seen some on done deal going for ?3000.. So much for vw for holding their valve! And I haven't and won't get the update done.. If its not broke and all that....

Is that not the old shape with the rounded lights? 12000 seems very high for a six year old Passat if it was the old shape? Maybe I'm wrong here.

colm_mcm

There is def something amiss that this hasn't been exposed my the mainstream media. Shows you how much vested interests there are to keep it quiet.

Buffman

Yep, from reading some of those very recent honestjohn comments I'm amazed this story isn't bigger.

Frazer Radford on 24 April 2017
From Day 1 we were told to fob the customer off because Head Office had issued the recall software and because they had been pushed into doing something they were playing the naughty schoolboy, and any revenue generated from repairs that were as direct result of the new software would help VW pay for the USA claims.
i totally agree if enough owners complain something will have to be done especially if some legal people get involved, by far the easier option and cheapest option for VW would be to put the old software back if an owner requests it. they can do this all old versions are stored on the server at Head office, if they are going to be paying for repairs on customer cars then this may actually happen. the parts cost to VW for an EGR valve would cover the labour cost of mapping the ecu back to original settings on 3 cars. i dont know if just complaining at the dealers is enough though, as a lot of dealers will listen whilst customer is there... but when they go home maybe the complaint gets filed under "B" for Bin. use this link www.complaintsdepartment.co.uk/volkswagen-uk/ or copy and paste into browser and use some of the contacts there to make your requests known.
go for it complain...complain..complain
Frazer

This guy has a 'red pill' take on it all which I'd be inclined to agree with.

Sadtomato 3 days ago
I fear that we are on our own and have little that we can do of a practical nature. There is a UK Government online petition regarding the 'Fix' but it only has around 500 signatures which is at the 'ignore' end of the response spectrum. VAG want to forget about this as quickly as possible. Our Government (unlike the USA Government) have little time for motorists - we just cause problems and produce lethal emissions (apparently) - we are just a cash cow to them. The BBC hate all motorists and diesel owners in particular. The Motoring press need to keep VW, Audi, Skoda and Seat onside or risk their own livelihoods so they are no going to make a lot of fuss. Our Euro 5 spec VAG cars are likely to become unloved and unwanted once the motor trade work out that the emissions fix is turning them into 'lemons' and the Government have invited us to scrap them for peanuts. I refused the 'fix' but my car is just as devalued at the rest of them. Some of us consumers are very upset by all this but we are greatly outnumbered by sheep who will probably just go out and buy another VAG car and not vent their disgust on internet forums! As Fraser said in Dads Army - "We're doomed!"

For anyone who missed how this was handled in the USA.

jackofalltrades

Sam Russell wrote: »

Checked my car and its been upgraded but I did not ask or even know. Car is shuddering at start off - feels like a clutch fault.

Did you buy it that way or did they just do it for you without asking, when you dropped it in for a service?

benny79

emmetkenny wrote: »

Is that not the old shape with the rounded lights? 12000 seems very high for a six year old Passat if it was the old shape? Maybe I'm wrong here.

I think it was 3/4 years old when I bought it. I got a great deal at the time as in the garage next door they were going for ?13,500 and a place on the naas road had them for ?14,500..

But they are going for 3 to 4 grand now on donedeal thats some drop and vw used to hold there valve the most! which was 1 of the main reasons I bought vw.. Doesnt really bother me as I plan on keeping it as I have replaced a lot in it Turbo, clutch, shocks etc.. and I definitely won't be getting the update but I never bring any cars I have owned to a main dealer for service really can't understand people who do as they are pure rip off...

Golfgorfield

benny79 wrote: »

I think it was 3/4 years old when I bought it. I got a great deal at the time as in the garage next door they were going for ?13,500 and a place on the naas road had them for ?14,500..

But they are going for 3 to 4 grand now on donedeal thats some drop and vw used to hold there valve the most! which was 1 of the main reasons I bought vw.. Doesnt really bother me as I plan on keeping it as I have replaced a lot in it Turbo, clutch, shocks etc.. and I definitely won't be getting the update but I never bring any cars I have owned to a main dealer for service really can't understand people who do as they are pure rip off...

I slightly disagree, i have 2 VAG cars in the house and the difference in a full service costs Main dealer vs independent is not that much. My last service was about €40 more expensive in the main dealer, but they provided a replacement car, i get to keep my full main dealer history on the car, and they hand it back washed and hoovered.

Sam Russell

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Did you buy it that way or did they just do it for you without asking, when you dropped it in for a service?

I bought it 2013 one year old before this all emissions broke. I had it serviced at a VW main dealer as it fell due. Last time it was after the upgrade was announced and it was 'upgraded' unknown to me. After that I began to get the feeling the clutch was about to go or some other nasty, which lines up with the loss of torque at low revs. I have traded it in.

It was a good car until that 'upgrade'.

Gwynston

I have to say there have been no noticeable affects on the driving experience of our 2011 1.6 TDi Golf since the upgrade, so not all seem to be detrimentally affected (yet!).

That is except of course for the EGR failure which happened 6 weeks after the update (leaving my wife stranded during a 400-mile round trip :rolleyes:), after which VW replaced the entire EGR assembly under "good will"

benny79

Golfgorfield wrote: »

I slightly disagree, i have 2 VAG cars in the house and the difference in a full service costs Main dealer vs independent is not that much. My last service was about ?40 more expensive in the main dealer, but they provided a replacement car, i get to keep my full main dealer history on the car, and they hand it back washed and hoovered.

Everyone is different. I have worked in a big main dealer years ago and seen how they operated. It was actually a vw one too but my passat is the dearest car I have ever owned and the newest one at the time (It was only 3/4 years old) I am not a big fan of vw as my first ever car was a polo classic and broke down everywhere... mental scars.. But with my first service I left it in to a vw dealer as they were doing a deal for €189 at the time. It actually ended up costing me €500 as they said some bracket were worn in the back they were €30 each (2) plus labour I knew they were ripping me and my local mechanic be half that but said fcuk it while they have it everything be perfect then.

My car was perfect for 6 months before hand. A week after receiving my car back all the lights on the dash came on! brought it back complained they told me the actuator in the turbo was gone! The car was only a few years old, I caused murder got no where they said it was just consistence and wanted €550 to fix it and said there was no charge for hooking it up to computer to see what the fault was! that they normal charge €60!!

This is free in any local garage I have ever gone to.. I didn't actually find them nice to deal with at all either there was a charge for everything. So I brought it back to my local mechanic who done it for €300 thats €250 of a difference.. A lot of main dealers charge a €100 per hour labour charge.. So I do think there is a big difference imo..

slightly off topic sorry..

ABC101

May be of interest to readers..


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-06/how-volkswagen-quietly-stashed-half-million-rigged-cars-around-country

Perhaps if you were to trade in for a Skoda? Are they not of the same VAG umbrella?

I got into a Skoda Superb taxi the other day, 160K miles and still on the same clutch plate!!! The driver was full of praise for the Skoda.

I do admire the Superb, as a saloon / estate I think it is a great looker, nice trim levels etc.

Casati

ABC101 wrote: »

May be of interest to readers..




Perhaps if you were to trade in for a Skoda? Are they not of the same VAG umbrella?

I got into a Skoda Superb taxi the other day, 160K miles and still on the same clutch plate!!! The driver was full of praise for the Skoda.

I do admire the Superb, as a saloon / estate I think it is a great looker, nice trim levels etc.

I got the update on my 170ps 151 Superb and to honestly I can't tell any difference in performance or economy since. Maybe it's only certain engines that have a more significant effect?

Toyotafanboi

Casati wrote: »

I got the update on my 170ps 151 Superb and to honestly I can't tell any difference in performance or economy since. Maybe it's only certain engines that have a more significant effect?

Maybe its certain drivers, the ones hoping to find side affects, that suffer the worst from them?

Just to play devils advocate...

What have we actually got in this thread? Some anecdotal testimony of slight MPG decreases, which would be a standard expectation if the ECU software is reset under any circumstances anyway and an EGR failure on an engine that is already famed for EGR failure?

Casati

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Maybe its certain drivers, the ones hoping to find side affects, that suffer the worst from them?

Just to play devils advocate...

What have we actually got in this thread? Some anecdotal testimony of slight MPG decreases, which would be a standard expectation if the ECU software is reset under any circumstances anyway and an EGR failure on an engine that is already famed for EGR failure?

Has anybody on here done a rolling road test before and after? I guess that would be v useful in proving a point?

Toyotafanboi

Casati wrote: »

Has anybody on here done a rolling road test before and after? I guess that would be v useful in proving a point?

I've asked that loads of times. It'd be interesting to see the results no matter what they go to prove/ disprove. I don't think anyone credible has yet but I havn't looked too hard

ABC101

Casati wrote: »

Has anybody on here done a rolling road test before and after? I guess that would be v useful in proving a point?

While it may prove a point to the owner of the car, the results may not be accepted by VW. As it may have to be on a test center of their specification / choosing etc.

They would find a reason as to why your test result was invalid / not scientific enough etc.

Damien360

Casati wrote: »

I got the update on my 170ps 151 Superb and to honestly I can't tell any difference in performance or economy since. Maybe it's only certain engines that have a more significant effect?

I have a Leaseplan skoda superb 140bhp 142 estate and recently brought it in for service. I was told Leaseplan have a ban on that fix for all models. Dealer took out his highlighter pen to mark page to make sure it was not done.

Buffman

Casati wrote: »

Has anybody on here done a rolling road test before and after? I guess that would be v useful in proving a point?

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I've asked that loads of times. It'd be interesting to see the results no matter what they go to prove/ disprove. I don't think anyone credible has yet but I havn't looked too hard

Other than the one I linked before, the only other one I've come across so far was a 140PS Yeti in 3rd gear. It shows changes at lower RPM, but his second 'after' test starts a few 100rpm after the 'before' one. The owner seems happy enough with it.

http://www.yetiownersclub.co.uk/forum/power-yeti-140ps-before-after-software-update_topic5262_page1.html

I wrote a post on 26th November providing the power and torque output graphs for our 140PS 4WD 6-gear manual Yeti as measured on a dynamometer.. The software upgrade to correct the 'cheat' software was carried out today and I immediately went to have the test repeated. I'm now providing an update and for easy comparison the before and after graphs are overlaid and printed below. The Yeti had the same grade supermarket diesel and the engine was warm. The test was performed on both occasions in third gear as for technical reasons it cannot be done in a higher gear, hence the torque is lower than the manufacturer's figure but the power output is the true value. In any case, the test conditions are identical. The results follow and I am very pleased with them, as you'll see.

The power output before was 137.2 HP and after was 139.8 HP, although the difference is trivial. Of more importance is the very close match of both the torque and power curves. I'll be monitoring the fuel consumption closely, but I achieved 48mpg before the change and 47mpg after, although I was pushing the car hard to check on acceleration, which subjectively was just as good as before. So in conclusion, no noticeable change. Incidentally the only 'perk' I received was a goody bag with a Skoda mug, a Skoda notebook, a keyring and a biro. If any problems do arise, I'll give an update.

KCross

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I've asked that loads of times. It'd be interesting to see the results no matter what they go to prove/ disprove. I don't think anyone credible has yet but I havn't looked too hard

If there was no performance or reliability degradation as a result of the fix why would they put the cheat device in in the first place.

There has to be a downside to applying the fix, surely?

jimmycrackcorm

KCross wrote: »

If there was no performance or reliability degradation as a result of the fix why would they put the cheat device in in the first place.

There has to be a downside to applying the fix, surely?

Cheats moved into the measurement software. billions at stake.

KCross

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Cheats moved into the measurement software. billions at stake.

I don't understand your point. Billions at stake alright, I get that.

What do you mean by cheats moving into software?

VW cheated so they could sell their cars without complying to emissions test. Applying the fix which now supposedly makes the car comply cannot, logically, have no effect on the performance and reliability of the car. If that were the case they wouldn't have cheated in the first place.

jackofalltrades

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Maybe its certain drivers, the ones hoping to find side affects, that suffer the worst from them?

Just to play devils advocate...

What have we actually got in this thread? Some anecdotal testimony of slight MPG decreases, which would be a standard expectation if the ECU software is reset under any circumstances anyway and an EGR failure on an engine that is already famed for EGR failure?

You keep trying to place the blame on the driver and present the VW group in the best possible light, no matter how many posts show issues with this "fix".
What about this post where a company showed actual data of a car that had went through the recall.
Is this all in their and the drivers head?

Atlantic Dawn

I'd love to know if VW was Irish based what the outcome for EU motorists would have been?

gctest50

Casati wrote: »

Has anybody on here done a rolling road test before and after? I guess that would be v useful in proving a point?

lol, car knows it's on a dyno and returns the same power as before the upgrade


.

exaisle

Is there any way of finding out whether the update has been carried out or not (on a second-hand car)?

BTW, I have the full version of VAGCOM..

shanec1928

exaisle wrote: »

Is there any way of finding out whether the update has been carried out or not (on a second-hand car)?

BTW, I have the full version of VAGCOM..

it was posted a few pages back if you stick the reg into the campaigns check from vw it should tell you if it's been done or is available for that car.

KCross

shanec1928 wrote: »

it was posted a few pages back if you stick the reg into the campaigns check from vw it should tell you if it's been Downes or is available for that car.

My understanding is that that website just tells you if the car is part of the recall but doesn't actually tell you if the fix has been applied.
https://campaigncheck.ie/