VW emissions software update - disaster

joeysoap

benny79 wrote: »

I wouldnt be given them a penny and insisting they do it foc with warranty!

Car purchased 2nd hand, 5 years old this year. When he broke down on the motorway last week, gave him replacement for 1 day while they tried to find the fault (no lights showing on dash at this stage- lights reappeared 1 day later). His own dealer diagnosed the fault and I think made a case for him with VW.

He was told that if he didn't pay approx 10% there would be no guarantee, he made the call that 2 years peace of mind was worth the money as the mechanic told him the part was 'probably' on the way out anyway. He knows now he has approx 3 years motoring before he needs to sell. Beautiful car, though.

Moanin

Interesting Thread. I purchased a 2011 A6 2.0 tdi last October which had the software update. About 6 weeks afterwards the EGR valve failed. The car was driven as a diesel should be and had 188k kms on the clock. I thought nothing of it and got my local indy to replace. costing circa €600.

Would I have any case for compensation from VW?

grogi

Moanin wrote: »

Interesting Thread. I purchased a 2011 A6 2.0 tdi last October which had the software update. About 6 weeks afterwards the EGR valve failed. The car was driven as a diesel should be and had 188k kms on the clock. I thought nothing of it and got my local indy to replace. costing circa €600.

Would I have any case for compensation from VW?

Move on.

joeysoap

Moanin wrote: »

Interesting Thread. I purchased a 2011 A6 2.0 tdi last October which had the software update. About 6 weeks afterwards the EGR valve failed. The car was driven as a diesel should be and had 188k kms on the clock. I thought nothing of it and got my local indy to replace. costing circa €600.

Would I have any case for compensation from VW?

Did the selling dealer give a 6 months warranty?

Moanin

joeysoap wrote: »

Did the selling dealer give a 6 months warranty?

I bought if from my boss - private sale as such.

Does this fix put pressure on DPF also as it seems to regenerate especially after short journeys?

joeysoap

i heard from a mechanic that nearly all the EGR's produced in 2011/13 have pretty much all to replaced. He said VW changed manufacturer in 2013 and they were hoping this would solve some of the problems. Quietly. I have heard from two more owners whose cars developed the same problem - one before the fix and one after. In both cases the EGR was (eventually) fitted at a cost reduction, not free.

grogi

Moanin wrote: »

I bought if from my boss - private sale as such.

Does this fix put pressure on DPF also as it seems to regenerate especially after short journeys?

Yes. Worse economy = more soot.

joeysoap wrote: »

i heard from a mechanic that nearly all the EGR's produced in 2011/13 have pretty much all to replaced. He said VW changed manufacturer in 2013 and they were hoping this would solve some of the problems. Quietly. I have heard from two more owners whose cars developed the same problem - one before the fix and one after. In both cases the EGR was (eventually) fitted at a cost reduction, not free.

I am actually surprised that no additional filter was introduced in front of the EGR. Cleaned with every oil service, it would would save a lot of the EGR hassle.

Toyotafanboi

joeysoap wrote: »

i heard from a mechanic that nearly all the EGR's produced in 2011/13 have pretty much all to replaced. He said VW changed manufacturer in 2013 and they were hoping this would solve some of the problems. Quietly. I have heard from two more owners whose cars developed the same problem - one before the fix and one after. In both cases the EGR was (eventually) fitted at a cost reduction, not free.

That would somewhat eliminate the fix as the standalone cause for failure then?

Seth Brundle

grogi wrote: »

I am actually surprised that no additional filter was introduced in front of the EGR. Cleaned with every oil service, it would would save a lot of the EGR hassle.

How many VAG customers who undergo the "fix" and subsequently suffer the EGR fault put two and two together and actually complain?
I'd say this is making a few bob for VW!

joeysoap

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

That would somewhat eliminate the fix as the standalone cause for failure then?

Standalone, perhaps. Accentuate the problem, probably. I'd also say that VW are aware that a pissed off customers mightn't be back. And all cars needs replacing at some stage. Anyone aware of this problem with other makers diesel models?

Toyotafanboi

joeysoap wrote: »

I'd also say that VW are aware that a pissed off customers mightn't be back.

I'm sure they're more than a little conscious of this. EGR's fail in lots of diesels but a lot can be attributed to being driven incorrectly etc whereas the 1.6 diesel ones just seem to be made from chocolate.

kyote00

Some researchers in the US and Germany uncover new details of the VW cheats...

https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~klevchen/diesel-sp17.pdf

A less techy write up here...
https://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2017/05/volkswagen-bosch-fiat-diesel-emissions-cheats-cracked-open-in-new-research/

Makes you wonder what the 'fix' does exactly if the original cheat was so complex

slade_x

Wish I thought to check up on this before my girlfriends golf mk5 went in for this EA 189 NOx issue technical measure implementation as they put it in the letter

She collected the car, about 1 minute from the service centre the engine lights on the instrument panel turn on. then the alarm starts to go off when she stops at a traffic light and pushed the clutch in briefly the engine turns off as it always has but when lifting the clutch back up, it wouldn't start, she had to turn off and on the ignition to get the car started.

She returned that car saying there were issues and was told, it had those faults when she dropped it in. however when she first collected it there was no mention of any faults whatsoever, she was just told it was ready and given the keys. She was told it would cost €800 to fix and was charged €150 for some pre service fee, that she was told would make the repairs cheaper or something to that affect.

Now this should go without saying but there were no issues with that car when she dropped it in. she has had the car for about 3 months now which was purchased from a dealer in dublin and has never had an issue with it until after this update.

Toyotafanboi

What year is the Golf? Mk5's didn't use any of the EA189 engines.

Sounds like after the car broke down and she went back they charged her a diagnostic fee to inspect the fault and have said that they will deduct that fee from the final repair cost if she repairs with them which is standard practise.

Bad form though if the car was just in the workshop, it would have been courteous to cover the diagnostic cost for you. For all they knew it was their error. Do you know what they said the issue was?

slade_x

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

What year is the Golf? Mk5's didn't use any of the EA189 engines.

Sounds like after the car broke down and she went back they charged her a diagnostic fee to inspect the fault and have said that they will deduct that fee from the final repair cost if she repairs with them which is standard practise.

Bad form though if the car was just in the workshop, it would have been courteous to cover the diagnostic cost for you. For all they knew it was their error. Do you know what they said the issue was?

its a 2011, meant to write mk6, I didn't get any details of what they said the fault was. All it was booked in for was that update as per the letter they sent to her. they recently sent a video of the car on a lift while a mechanic was talking about the fact there are two new tires on it and then inspecting the rear tires and indicating the front wishbone bushings were starting to wear

Toyotafanboi

Sorry, yeah that's a Mk6. Sounds like a health check video.

How is the car now? Is it ok or still giving trouble, is it with the dealer or with you?

dubrov

Volkswagen is to provide a two year guarantee for the cars in Europe fitted with emissions cheating devices which it agreed to modify.
A number of UK consumers have complained that the modifications have affected performance and reliability.
The two year guarantee will cover exhaust and emissions control parts.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40280395

It's unclear to me whether the extension only applys to cars that have had the update applied.

joeysoap

dubrov wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40280395

It's unclear to me whether the extension only applys to cars that have had the update applied.

VW agreed to the 2 year guarantee for son's Jetta if he paid €150 towards the costs of replacemnt EGR. The original asking price was €900 +

Toyotafanboi

joeysoap wrote: »

VW agreed to the 2 year guarantee for son's Jetta if he paid €150 towards the costs of replacemnt EGR. The original asking price was €900 +

You get 2 years warranty on any work carried out by a VW dealer.

If he paid no contribution to the work he would get no consumer rights or warranty as he didn't pay for anything and the repair would have been supplied as a goodwill gesture.

diggerdigger

Wish I had read the forums before getting the software fix.  About a week after the update, I get random problems.   
The coil light blinking, and car goes into limp mode
The engine light light comes on
Much higher than normal DPF warnings 
Stop Start System Failure warnings
All random, and they clear when you switch off the car.
Going back to Dealer on Monday next to see what they have to say for themselves.  Grrr.

selectamatic

I see torquetronix have managed to get 150bhp from a 1.6tdi caddy via a software update recently. Pretty good going as 130bhp was perceived to be the ceiling a year or 2 ago.

I'd imagine the dpf and egr were dealt with too. Probably cost a touch more than €150 though.

Odyssey 2005

diggerdigger wrote: »

Wish I had read the forums before getting the software fix.  About a week after the update, I get random problems.   
The coil light blinking, and car goes into limp mode
The engine light light comes on
Much higher than normal DPF warnings 
Stop Start System Failure warnings
All random, and they clear when you switch off the car.
Going back to Dealer on Monday next to see what they have to say for themselves.  Grrr.

I feel your pain. Felt the very same as you. Discovered this thread 2 days after getting it done.

Toyotafanboi

That seems to be a common theme. Why are so many people only researching the update after having it carried out?

grogi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

That seems to be a common theme. Why are so many people only researching the update after having it carried out?

Because happy/content people don't look for solutions nor they complain online...

Toyotafanboi

grogi wrote: »

Because happy/content people don't look for solutions nor they complain online...

I understand that. Just given the unprecedented nature of this update in general when a multinational firm post a letter to your house asking you to return your car for one of the most high profile recalls of all time, would you not do a quick Google search pre-recall? That's when you can still do something about it.

Post recall if you are not happy, you are snookered really. Best case scenario you are just rolling with the punches. As you say though, only the unhappy people come online, there are tens of thousands of people who have had no side effects which never get a mention here, for balance.

diggerdigger

diggerdigger wrote: »

Wish I had read the forums before getting the software fix.  About a week after the update, I get random problems.   
The coil light blinking, and car goes into limp mode
The engine light light comes on
Much higher than normal DPF warnings 
Stop Start System Failure warnings
All random, and they clear when you switch off the car.
Going back to Dealer on Monday next to see what they have to say for themselves.  Grrr.

Must say the dealer was great.  went back in, they checked the car, agreed that the fault hadnt been there before the update, replaced the EGR at no cost, and so far, everything is running perfectly again.

Atlantic Dawn

BBC Watchdog covering issues around the VW emissions fix on tomorrow show...

https://twitter.com/BBCWatchdog/status/884800004405284864

Odyssey 2005

Have to say that the update made an absolute ctun out of my car. Hard to believe it's the same vehicle.

Toyotafanboi

What differences are you seeing?

Odyssey 2005

Huge difference in power,heavier on fuel and the car has to be 'driven" now,if you know what I mean. You constantly have to be on the throttle now.

vkid

Is it just certain models that this causes problems with. Have a 2 ltr. 2011 cc and nervous about doing this(mainly based on this thread) Got a second letter from vw recently

Odyssey 2005

vkid wrote: »

Is it just certain models that this causes problems with. Have a 2 ltr. 2011 cc and nervous about doing this(mainly based on this thread) Got a second letter from vw recently

Put it in the fookin bin.. .
Mine is a 2.0 170 hp also

Moanin

vkid wrote: »

Is it just certain models that this causes problems with. Have a 2 ltr. 2011 cc and nervous about doing this(mainly based on this thread) Got a second letter from vw recently

The only difference that I noticed was I had to replace EGR valve after update (Economy and power not affected)!
(2012 A6 2.0TDI 177bhp)

Toyotafanboi

Did Audi cover it?

Moanin

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Did Audi cover it?

An Indi VAG specialist replaced it last November and I never followed up with Audi. Dunno if it's worth following up on now?

Toyotafanboi

Doubtful I'd say.

Stallingrad

More of it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4687386/Thousands-owners-complain-cars-losing-power.html

jackofalltrades

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

BBC Watchdog covering issues around the VW emissions fix on tomorrow show...

https://twitter.com/BBCWatchdog/status/884800004405284864

I'm amazed it took them this long.

vkid wrote: »

Is it just certain models that this causes problems with. Have a 2 ltr. 2011 cc and nervous about doing this(mainly based on this thread) Got a second letter from vw recently

Ignore it and make it very clear if you ever bring your car in for a service with them that you don't want the update installed.

la ultima guagua

http://www.autoblog.com/2017/06/23/vw-waives-appeal-agrees-to-buy-back-dieselgate-cars-germany/

Toyotafanboi

The watchdog article is heavily sensationalized though in the way it's worded isn't it?

I mean if you updating 1.2 million cars and "thousands" are having a bad reaction that's still considerably less than 1% of vehicles having faults after the update.

Would it be reasonable to anticipate that some of the cars are to some degree showing excess wear or a state of disrepair on certain components, which then fail after a new software version is applied as the old software has self learned and adjusted to compensating for the aged components?

I know this still isn't the owners fault and is still VW's issue to fix, but it does sound like they are coming to the table in these instances

SmithySeller

Another one here. Mate had A4 Sline lower bhp 2ltr. Got emissions fix done, EGR failure days later!

Atlantic Dawn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

BBC Watchdog covering issues around the VW emissions fix on tomorrow show...

https://twitter.com/BBCWatchdog/status/884800004405284864

Starting now BBC1.

grogi

SmithySeller wrote: »

Another one here. Mate had A4 Sline lower bhp 2ltr. Got emissions fix done, EGR failure days later!

I have said it before many times: it seems the VW diesels used the EGR only in test cycle. After the fix it was enabled in real world usage, and the EGR immediately brakes down (stays open) because of the soot deposits around it.

Its failure is related to the fix, but it is not the fix that broke it. It was broken before, but simply wasn't used.

Toyotafanboi

grogi wrote: »

I have said it before many times: it seems the VW diesels used the EGR only in test cycle. After the fix it was enabled in real world usage, and the EGR immediately brakes down (stays open) because of the soot deposits around it.

Its failure is related to the fix, but it is not the fix that broke it. It was broken before, but simply wasn't used.

I'd agree with that. I wouldn't say the EGR wasn't used before the update but may not have been used as much as it is afterwards, which then provokes a failure.

joeysoap

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I'd agree with that. I wouldn't say the EGR wasn't used before the update but may not have been used as much as it is afterwards, which then provokes a failure.

VW were aware that the supplier they used between 2009 and 2013 was not up to scratch, hence change of supplier after 2013.

SmithySeller

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I'd agree with that. I wouldn't say the EGR wasn't used before the update but may not have been used as much as it is afterwards, which then provokes a failure.

This is basically what VW said to Honest John, 'according' to one of his articles!

benny79

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Starting now BBC1.

Was it any good? was trying to get home to watch it but didnt make it home in time!

Toyotafanboi

Getting the fix is perhaps a handy way to get your EGR replaced for free when these EGRs were known to be dickie anyway before Dieselgate was ever a thing.

joeysoap

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Getting the fix is perhaps a handy way to get your EGR replaced for free when these EGRs were known to be dickie anyway before Dieselgate was ever a thing.

True, but if you pay nothing they won't guarantee it for an hour. If you make a payment of €130- €150 you get a 2 year guarantee.

Atlantic Dawn

benny79 wrote: »

Was it any good? was trying to get home to watch it but didnt make it home in time!

No nothing new in it, they only covered it for first 10 minutes, basically cars going in to limp mode after the software fix, one driver it happened on a motorway and a truck went in to the back of her and wrote the car off. VW responded to Watchdog to say the problems were entirely unrelated to the fix. Watchdog had one Audi A4 owners car tested prior to the software fix and then after, when the fix was applied the driver experienced shudder from the car and when they had the car independently tested the EGR valve was the cause as a result of it having to work harder. Lad from Auto Express was on to say it's impossible there was no link between the fix and EGR failure, he advised nobody get the fix done.