VW emissions software update - disaster

dubrov

If they replace it for free, consumer protection law would force them to fix it if it failed an hour later.

Let's face it, they are not replacing EGRs out of the goodness of their heart no matter what they say.

Odyssey 2005

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

No nothing new in it, they only covered it for first 10 minutes, basically cars going in to limp mode after the software fix, one driver it happened on a motorway and a truck went in to the back of her and wrote the car off. VW responded to Watchdog to say the problems were entirely unrelated to the fix. Watchdog had one Audi A4 owners car tested prior to the software fix and then after, when the fix was applied the driver experienced shudder from the car and when they had the car independently tested the EGR valve was the cause as a result of it having to work harder. Lad from Auto Express was on to say it's impossible there was no link between the fix and EGR failure, he advised nobody get the fix done.

I also experienced a "shudder" from my car twice soon after the FIX . Happened when I started the car and it felt like it was running on 3 cylinders. Hasn't happened since,but as I have said before confidence is gone in the car.

joeysoap

My lad was on the M1 in the overtaking lane when his Jetta went into limp mode, near the Santry turnoff. He said he didn't really have a problem getting across to the inside lane but I wouldn't like to do too often.

colm_mcm

joeysoap wrote: »

True, but if you pay nothing they won't guarantee it for an hour. If you make a payment of €130- €150 you get a 2 year guarantee.

Surely you'd have the same rights if they just charged you €1.

joeysoap

colm_mcm wrote: »

Surely you'd have the same rights if they just charged you €1.

Maybe.

Personally as Toyota person who has had problems with one or two cars over the years (nothing as serious as this) I would have expected VW to pick the all the tab, (as Toyota did) however at the time VW were strenuously denying that the fix had anything to do with the Christmas lights on his dashboard. It's only lately that they are even close to admitting the sh*t the fix is causing.

I think it was local labour charges.

vkid

Letter number. 3 from vw this morning. we would like to remind you..Bla Bla..although it is voluntary..we assure we have tested..no adverse affects

Think I'm going to email them for the craic and ask them about all the reports of issues..see what they say.

jackofalltrades

vkid wrote: »

Letter number. 3 from vw this morning. we would like to remind you..Bla Bla..although it is voluntary..we assure we have tested..no adverse affects

Think I'm going to email them for the craic and ask them about all the reports of issues..see what they say.

Ask them for before and after charts, showing the differences in BHP,Torque from a similar car that has had the "fix" done.

joujoujou

vkid wrote: »

[...] I'm going to email them for the craic and ask them about all the reports of issues..see what they say.

They'll say pure coincidence and no proof of relationship between update and chain reaction of problems afterwards. Usual bullsh;t.

benny79

I also got letter no 3. I emailed them a strongly worded letter and it bounced back the email address on the letter is wrong! :rolleyes: it should be campaignquestions@vwgi.ie or you can use vwcustomer.service@vwgi.ie.

I asked the girl that answered the phone how can they explain all the issues the update is causing which is widely reported across the motor industry? (I actually sounded like a reporter ) she told me that they are underlining issues that we're already within the car! I told her its a bit of a coincidence that they are only happening after the update is carried out. As it was reported on the bbc programme watchdog this week! and how come they acknowledged the issues in the US and compensated the consumer!

She told me she didn't see the bbc programme watchdog and vw have proven that all the issues that arose after the update have been proven to be underlying issues and not related to the update! And the EU cars is a co2 issue where as the US vw cars was a different issue altogether. bla..bla...


Lets just she was well rehearsed as to what to say... and I also got the impression she to thought I was a reporter

If any of you motor tech heads want the number to ring just pm me.. As I really know feck all about cars!! but I tell you one thing there is definitely a cover up been done and I'd make a great Journalist!

grogi

In Germany, the cars that weren't presented to be fixed, will be deemed illegal starting from 28 August.

http://www.autozeitung.de/kba-vw-diesel-stilllegung-189667.html

I wish I saw such decisiveness from our Government...

Miike

grogi wrote: »

In Germany, the cars that weren't presented to be fixed, will be deemed illegal starting from 28 August.

http://www.autozeitung.de/kba-vw-diesel-stilllegung-189667.html

I wish I saw such decisiveness from our Government...

Yeah lets force people to ruin cars they paid tens of thousands for, or at least out law them! :mad::mad::mad::mad:


jk.

Azatadine

grogi wrote: »

In Germany, the cars that weren't presented to be fixed, will be deemed illegal starting from 28 August.

http://www.autozeitung.de/kba-vw-diesel-stilllegung-189667.html

I wish I saw such decisiveness from our Government...

I have no intention of getting mine done. Why would I want to make it worse?

grogi

Cortecs wrote: »

I have no intention of getting mine done. Why would I want to make it worse?

grogi wrote: »

I wish I saw such decisiveness from our Government...

I rest my point...

Odyssey 2005

Consider it rested.

Riva10

grogi wrote: »

I rest my point...

Just as well. Being righteous must be very tiring. :P
You might consider moving to Germany. :rolleyes:

benny79

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen Customer Care.

Whilst I understand you are disappointed in Volkswagen, the fact remains that your vehicle is of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described at the point of sale despite this NOx issue. To be clear, this issue relates to the characteristics of nitrogen oxides (NOx) when experiencing test conditions. Information regarding NOx emissions levels was not included in the sales literature for your vehicle. The CO2 emissions and fuel economy figures which were provided are unaffected by this NOx issue, as is the affected vehicles’ performance. There is no evidence that this NOx issue impacts the fuel consumption or any other aspect of the affected vehicles’ performance during normal use. There is also no evidence to suggest that the affected vehicles present a risk to public health or the environment as a result of the NOx issue. Further, the affected vehicles have been approved by an independent approval authority and therefore have EU type-approval which remains valid. The NOx issue has no impact on the safety or roadworthiness of your vehicle, and your vehicle is legally allowed to be driven on the roads despite this issue.

This is not a mandatory safety recall, but a voluntary service action. It is entirely at the discretion of yourself should you wish to have this update carried out.

Should you wish to discuss this further please do not hesitate to contact US.

Kind Regards,

Ciara Griffin
Volkswagen Customer Care Department
Volkswagen Group Ireland Limited
Block C, Liffey Valley Office Campus
Liffey Valley, Dublin 22
( Off: 1850 812761 (Passenger Cars)
( Off: 1850 812762 (Commercial Vehicles)
*:VWCUSTOMER.SERVICE@volkswagen.ie
www.volkswagen.ie
www.volkswagenvans.ie

That is the reply I got from VW after I wrote a strongly worded email about the issues that have been noted after the update has been done.

benny79

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen Customer Care.

Whilst I understand you are disappointed in Volkswagen, the fact remains that your vehicle is of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described at the point of sale despite this NOx issue. To be clear, this issue relates to the characteristics of nitrogen oxides (NOx) when experiencing test conditions. Information regarding NOx emissions levels was not included in the sales literature for your vehicle. The CO2 emissions and fuel economy figures which were provided are unaffected by this NOx issue, as is the affected vehicles’ performance. There is no evidence that this NOx issue impacts the fuel consumption or any other aspect of the affected vehicles’ performance during normal use. There is also no evidence to suggest that the affected vehicles present a risk to public health or the environment as a result of the NOx issue. Further, the affected vehicles have been approved by an independent approval authority and therefore have EU type-approval which remains valid. The NOx issue has no impact on the safety or roadworthiness of your vehicle, and your vehicle is legally allowed to be driven on the roads despite this issue.

This is not a mandatory safety recall, but a voluntary service action. It is entirely at the discretion of yourself should you wish to have this update carried out.

Should you wish to discuss this further please do not hesitate to contact US.

Kind Regards,

Ciara Griffin
Volkswagen Customer Care Department
Volkswagen Group Ireland Limited
Block C, Liffey Valley Office Campus
Liffey Valley, Dublin 22
( Off: 1850 812761 (Passenger Cars)
( Off: 1850 812762 (Commercial Vehicles)
*:VWCUSTOMER.SERVICE@volkswagen.ie
www.volkswagen.ie
www.volkswagenvans.ie

That is the reply I got from VW after I wrote a strongly worded email about the issues that have been noted after the update has been done.

grogi

benny79 wrote: »

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen Customer Care.

Whilst I understand you are disappointed in Volkswagen, the fact remains that your vehicle is of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described at the point of sale despite this NOx issue. To be clear, this issue relates to the characteristics of nitrogen oxides (NOx) when experiencing test conditions. Information regarding NOx emissions levels was not included in the sales literature for your vehicle. The CO2 emissions and fuel economy figures which were provided are unaffected by this NOx issue, as is the affected vehicles’ performance. There is no evidence that this NOx issue impacts the fuel consumption or any other aspect of the affected vehicles’ performance during normal use. There is also no evidence to suggest that the affected vehicles present a risk to public health or the environment as a result of the NOx issue. Further, the affected vehicles have been approved by an independent approval authority and therefore have EU type-approval which remains valid. The NOx issue has no impact on the safety or roadworthiness of your vehicle, and your vehicle is legally allowed to be driven on the roads despite this issue.

This is not a mandatory safety recall, but a voluntary service action. It is entirely at the discretion of yourself should you wish to have this update carried out.

SERIOUSLY?!

Riva10

benny79 wrote: »

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen Customer Care.

Whilst I understand you are disappointed in Volkswagen, the fact remains that your vehicle is of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described at the point of sale despite this NOx issue. To be clear, this issue relates to the characteristics of nitrogen oxides (NOx) when experiencing test conditions. Information regarding NOx emissions levels was not included in the sales literature for your vehicle. The CO2 emissions and fuel economy figures which were provided are unaffected by this NOx issue, as is the affected vehicles’ performance. There is no evidence that this NOx issue impacts the fuel consumption or any other aspect of the affected vehicles’ performance during normal use. There is also no evidence to suggest that the affected vehicles present a risk to public health or the environment as a result of the NOx issue. Further, the affected vehicles have been approved by an independent approval authority and therefore have EU type-approval which remains valid. The NOx issue has no impact on the safety or roadworthiness of your vehicle, and your vehicle is legally allowed to be driven on the roads despite this issue.

This is not a mandatory safety recall, but a voluntary service action. It is entirely at the discretion of yourself should you wish to have this update carried out.

Should you wish to discuss this further please do not hesitate to contact US.

Kind Regards,

Ciara Griffin
Volkswagen Customer Care Department
Volkswagen Group Ireland Limited
Block C, Liffey Valley Office Campus
Liffey Valley, Dublin 22
( Off: 1850 812761 (Passenger Cars)
( Off: 1850 812762 (Commercial Vehicles)
*:VWCUSTOMER.SERVICE@volkswagen.ie
www.volkswagen.ie
www.volkswagenvans.ie

That is the reply I got from VW after I wrote a strongly worded email about the issues that have been noted after the update has been done.

Based on the above reply from VW, it would appear that Germany have overstepped their authority by declaring unmodified VW vehicles as illegal.
The vehicles effected and unmodified will still have EU type approval. :rolleyes:

zilog_jones

grogi wrote: »

SERIOUSLY?!

I suspect the fix makes minimal difference in NOx emissions during real world driving, so I think what they're saying is that the fix won't make the bad situation any better

grogi

zilog_jones wrote: »

I suspect the fix makes minimal difference in NOx emissions during real world driving, so I think what they're saying is that the fix won't make the bad situation any better

It does substantial difference - there were links to a german newspaper doing a real-world test. The economy suffered a bit, while the NOx emission was cut dramatically.

Found it: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/autocar-test-shows-worse-economy-after-volkswagen-diesel-fix

grogi

Anyway, someone on another forum has tested his 2.0 TDI on a rolling road before and after.

Claimed spec: 170 PS / 350 Nm

Before fix: 179 PS / 379 Nm
After fix 179,8 PS / 380 Nm

Riva10

grogi wrote: »

Anyway, someone on another forum has tested his 2.0 TDI on a rolling road before and after.

Claimed spec: 170 PS / 350 Nm

Before fix: 179 PS / 379 Nm
After fix 179,8 PS / 380 Nm

And your "reliable" source for this information is ?
And I expect this "test" was carried out by an accredited testing facility and not a backstreet garage with a greasy floor.

zilog_jones

grogi wrote: »

It does substantial difference - there were links to a german newspaper doing a real-world test. The economy suffered a bit, while the NOx emission was cut dramatically.

Found it: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/autocar-test-shows-worse-economy-after-volkswagen-diesel-fix

Not sure about you but I don't drive on rolling roads...

grogi

Riva10 wrote: »

And your "reliable" source for this information is ?
And I expect this "test" was carried out by an accredited testing facility and not a backstreet garage with a greasy floor.

So as long as it supports your thesis, the 'I feel it is not the same' is enough. But if it does not, you're looking for an accreditation
The test is good enough for me to see that there was no significant difference in power output.

Anyway, I though we were here to exchange information and thought. It seems however that your agenda is only to support your decision not to fix based on a belief that
* VW built great cars (because you did buy one, didn't you),
* VW manage to brake all those great cars when they could not release a reasonable fix.

Doesn't it sound contradictory? If you don't trust the German Engineering, flog the car. Who knows what lurks in the brake lines. They also designed the car to brake three weeks after the warranty expires. As part of the delivery, the dealer needs to put how much of it you purchased, so the car knows when to blow the gasket. But if you do, there is no reason not do to the fix and replace the EGR should it fail as well.

But of course the forum wisdom is all above that...

dubrov

grogi wrote: »

there is no reason not do to the fix and replace the EGR should it fail as well.

You have got to be kidding right.
How many times do VW have to lie before you stop believing them?

I can definitely see prices diverging for second hand cars that have and haven't had the fix applied.

Neilw

grogi wrote: »

Anyway, someone on another forum has tested his 2.0 TDI on a rolling road before and after.

Claimed spec: 170 PS / 350 Nm

Before fix: 179 PS / 379 Nm
After fix 179,8 PS / 380 Nm

Not a valid comparison without seeing the graphs.
Peak power and torque could be the same but how it's delivered would affect how the car feels to drive.

Azatadine

dubrov wrote: »

I can definitely see prices diverging for second hand cars that have and haven't had the fix applied.

I think so too.

Riva10

grogi wrote: »

So as long as it supports your thesis, the 'I feel it is not the same' is enough. But if it does not, you're looking for an accreditation
The test is good enough for me to see that there was no significant difference in power output.

Anyway, I though we were here to exchange information and thought. It seems however that your agenda is only to support your decision not to fix based on a belief that
* VW built great cars (because you did buy one, didn't you),
* VW manage to brake all those great cars when they could not release a reasonable fix.

Doesn't it sound contradictory? If you don't trust the German Engineering, flog the car. Who knows what lurks in the brake lines. They also designed the car to brake three weeks after the warranty expires. As part of the delivery, the dealer needs to put how much of it you purchased, so the car knows when to blow the gasket. But if you do, there is no reason not do to the fix and replace the EGR should it fail as well.

But of course the forum wisdom is all above that...

As long winded as the above is, it still does not answer the question and request in my previous post.

grogi

dubrov wrote: »

You have got to be kidding right.
How many times do VW have to lie before you stop believing them?

I NEVER believed VW. That's why I never bought any Volkswagen car.

But what I believe is that they would not try to cheat again while being under such scrutiny.

dubrov

grogi wrote:

But what I believe is that they would not try to cheat again while being under such scrutiny.

They would (with German government approval) if the only alternative was bankruptcy.

jackofalltrades

grogi wrote: »

In Germany, the cars that weren't presented to be fixed, will be deemed illegal starting from 28 August.

http://www.autozeitung.de/kba-vw-diesel-stilllegung-189667.html

I wish I saw such decisiveness from our Government...

Does anyone know what this will mean in practical terms?
I only have a google translate to work off and it talks about being at risk of having your car "decommissioned".
Are German authorities going to seize 728,000 cars, especially coming up to an election?

benny79

So since the last email I caught of VW highlighting my concerns about getting the update dont and how can the explain all the issues people are having and that I didnt accept their answers I got a further response below

Thank you for your return email.

Unfortunately, we would be unable to comment on anyone else’s vehicle only your own. Whilst we understand your cause of concern in having the update carried out we can assure you that the vast majority of customers have been fully satisfied with the technical measures. The Volkswagen Group has received approval and released technical measures for over 117,000 vehicles in the Republic of Ireland and has implemented the technical measures in vehicles in the Republic of Ireland and in over 3 million vehicles across Europe. Of those, only a very small number of customers have reported what they consider to be a change in their vehicle following implementation of the technical measures.

Should any issues arise after the update is carried we would advise any of our customers to return to the retailer where they had the update carried out for them to investigate it further.

As previously advised this is not a mandatory safety recall, but a voluntary service action. It is entirely at the discretion of yourself should you wish to have this update carried out.

Kind Regards,

Ciara Griffin
Volkswagen Customer Care Department
Volkswagen Group Ireland Limited
Block C, Liffey Valley Office Campus
Liffey Valley, Dublin 22
( Off: 1850 812761 (Passenger Cars)
( Off: 1850 812762 (Commercial Vehicles)
*:VWCUSTOMER.SERVICE@volkswagen.ie
www.volkswagen.ie
www.volkswagenvans.ie

dubrov

benny79 wrote: »

Should any issues arise after the update is carried we would advise any of our customers to return to the retailer where they had the update carried out for them to investigate it further. We then expect the retailer to initially deny the EGR problem was caused by the fix and then reluctantly offer a goodwill gesture to repair the EGR as long as the customer covers the labour costs. Secretly, we are already aware of this issue and have agreed with dealers to supply replacement EGR parts free of charge providing they cover the costs.

I've added some extra text which it appears VW left out by mistake..

mikeecho

Why are people willingly (blindly) getting this update.

You have a number of choices

1: Ignore any corrispondance

2: Get the update

3: Get the update, then immediately get the car remapped, to pre update mode

4: Get update, and then remapped for more power

5: Get update, and then remapped for more fuel economy.

6: Change the car.

7: Go online and whinge

There are 6 options available before you get to option 7

Stallingrad

mikeecho wrote: »

Why are people willingly (blindly) getting this update.

You have a number of choices

1: Ignore any corrispondance

2: Get the update

3: Get the update, then immediately get the car remapped, to pre update mode

4: Get update, and then remapped for more power

5: Get update, and then remapped for more fuel economy.

6: Change the car.

7: Go online and whinge

There are 6 options available before you get to option 7

I've heard from one highly respected remapper in Dublin that VW are locking down the ECU, so they cant do anything with it.

Toyotafanboi

Stallingrad wrote: »

I've heard from one highly respected remapper in Dublin that VW are locking down the ECU, so they cant do anything with it.

Sounds like he's spinning a bit of a yarn tbh.

bazz26

A fair share of ECU's have been encrypted for a good few years now. They can still be remapped, the mapper doing it just needs to be good at what they do.

grogi

I guess I was wrong. Scumbags...

VW admits its fix may not make a difference in the real world

http://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2017/06/30/vw-fix-volkswagen-no-significant-difference-real-world/

Gwynston

Not much of a surprise really.
I always took the view that the recall was just a show of contrition by VW - they were caught red handed with the defeat software and the update was mostly about removing it. While they did actually break the law in the US by falsifying the declared NOx figures, regulation for NOx is not so strict in the EU and the update had little to achieve in practice.

Here's my biggest take away from that article:

The current flawed car approval system… continues to protect the interests of the car industry instead of the public’s health.

I don't doubt that other manufacturers are also taking advantage of the flawed EU testing system. While VW took it too far with the defeat software, I'm sure most other engines sold are also designed to show best figures in the control environment of the test lab rather than in real world use.

And not just to look good in test results - there are valid design reasons why engine output would vary in different environments and temperatures. But the test system doesn't measure those...

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

I was thinking of buying a second hand VW Passat (2013/14) from the UK. Luckily I stumbled across this thread before that happened. Quick question for any one that can answer it;
Would it still be worth buying if the car has not had the fix?
Or should I just steer clear altogether?

Would appreciate as many answers as possible.

benny79

If it was me I wouldn't buy a VW and won't be buying one again. Although I love my Passat but it hasnt got the update done and I won't be getting it done. If its not broke....

Stallingrad

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

I was thinking of buying a second hand VW Passat (2013/14) from the UK. Luckily I stumbled across this thread before that happened. Quick question for any one that can answer it;
Would it still be worth buying if the car has not had the fix?
Or should I just steer clear altogether?

Would appreciate as many answers as possible.

In the same boat and decided to avoid the B7 Passat diesel altogether. Too may question marks and pitfalls. Pity as they are an excellent car, have a petrol B7 and love it.

Toyotafanboi

Stallingrad wrote: »

In the same boat and decided to avoid the B7 Passat diesel altogether. Too may question marks and pitfalls. Pity as they are an excellent car, have a petrol B7 and love it.

What would those question marks and pitfalls be?

Neilw

Stallingrad wrote: »

In the same boat and decided to avoid the B7 Passat diesel altogether. Too may question marks and pitfalls. Pity as they are an excellent car, have a petrol B7 and love it.

If it's an excellent car just don't bother with the update, it will still be excellent then.

whippet

I have the 1.6tdi engine in my 2011 superb ... I got the letter a few weeks back and have ignored it.

300k on the clock getting 58.9mpg (as per fuelly app) and it hasn't missed a beat since the day I got it. Why in gods name would I even consider letting anyone touch it.

I expect to get close to 700k from it before it's resigned to the scrap yard

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Neilw wrote: »

If it's an excellent car just don't bother with the update, it will still be excellent then.

Is there a way of checking if the car has been updated or not? I know asking would be the fastest way but for obvious reasons I wouldn't really trust the seller..

bazz26

You can check Irish VWs on here but it won't be able to check imports:

https://campaigncheck.ie/

1jcdub

I purchased a 2014 VW cc 177 TDI that had the emissions fix. I'd be very familiar with the 2.0 TDI engine as I've had it in previous cars. A 2008 vRS, 2009 A6, 2009 VW cc, 2012 A6 and the 2014 has driven well as standard with the fix compared to the previous cars, no vibration or lack of torque. I've recently had the car on a rolling road (Dyno) due to having it remapped and it was on the money as standard when it came to performance. 180bhp and 275 ft/lb of torque as standard.
Maybe the 177 TDI is less affected by the emission fix...

colm_mcm

Lol
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=59&v=ef5pzAggpoU&ebc=ANyPxKqbqnpTMg5EFEir5VQoPQ4NQB41sP6nzvlCwbV8mbdZQrrqbOAsFRv2ctFeakGk0lqi1OPSpVasDd1SXSZA3HwCSqbjBA