Paternity Leave

chases0102

Hi all,

I have a quick query that someone may be able to help me with.

My wife is due to give birth to our first child on 3rd April. Now, of course, the baby could arrive before or after that date, as it's quite arbitrary.

Is the two week Parental Leave inclusive of holidays? As in, if the baby arrived on the Wednesday, and the Easter Holidays were on the Friday, does the balance of the two weeks carry over?

implausible

Now, I'm just guessing, but I'd imagine it's like maternity leave - you can avail of two weeks leave, but if it falls during holidays, tough.

If it's a first child, you could take a punt that your wife could go overdue i.e. during Easter holidays and take the leave after Easter.

chases0102

Yeah, that would be exactly what I thought as well. Cheers!

LirW

We've just finished for applying (the man works in Public Service).
I'm due on March 12th, will most likely have a C-Section though. He now decided to put in the 13th, since it's a Monday, so he gains the weekend before and after that. Even though I'm gonna have a Section around a week before due, keep in mind she will stay in hospital for a few days and she's in good hands there.
So you might have a good look at the dates and see where you can get more out of it.
If there is a holiday in between, unfortunately your loss.
You also have the right to delay your paternity leave if you wanna go from straight after birth, if she goes overdue.

Best of luck with your new arrival!

TheDriver

You must take the 2 weeks consecutively however it can be taken in any timeframe up to 26 weeks after the birth. You're better off using a sick day until you establish when suits best to take it

gaiscioch

This one is for The Driver and others here in management.

If you take this new two-week paternity leave do you get your full salary or just a part of it? Also, if you've mostly LC classes would management view the last two weeks of May as a better or worse time to take paternity leave? (many students would presumably not be in school/be at home revising) What would be the best time at this time of year (bearing in mind the 4-week notification period)?

bungaro79

was onto the into about this. my wife is due around the june bank holiday so i have provisionally booked my leave from the wednesday we're back. the into said this is ok to change as the due date might not be exact naturally enough! we get sub cover for the 2 weeks and its full pay (between the dept of education and the dept of social welfare).

for anyone who is going for paternity leave, just be aware that you need to have a public service card which is basically the new pps card. you need to go to your local intreo office with id and proof of address to sort this out.

chases0102

Just an update on this folks that someone may be able to advise on - my wife went into Labour on Thursday morning, and giving birth to beautiful baby girl on the Friday. We're thrilled!

Now I informed the school on that morning that I wouldn't be in on Thursday due to labour, presuming self certified leave,and would contact school on Friday.

The DP assumed that my Paternity Leave had started, and gave my classes to a sub to get paid. I said no, that Paternity Leave only begins after baby was born, and I intended to take it the two weeks after Easter holidays. I told DP that Thursday and Friday were intended to be self certified sick days.

So we're at a bit of a stand off here! I'd be loathe to forsake my two weeks Paternity Leave because the DP made a mistake and wanted to pay a sub.

mirrorwall14

chases0102 wrote: »

Just an update on this folks that someone may be able to advise on - my wife went into Labour on Thursday morning, and giving birth to beautiful baby girl on the Friday. We're thrilled!

Now I informed the school on that morning that I wouldn't be in on Thursday due to labour, presuming self certified leave,and would contact school on Friday.

The DP assumed that my Paternity Leave had started, and gave my classes to a sub to get paid. I said no, that Paternity Leave only begins after baby was born, and I intended to take it the two weeks after Easter holidays. I told DP that Thursday and Friday were intended to be self certified sick days.

So we're at a bit of a stand off here! I'd be loathe to forsake my two weeks Paternity Leave because the DP made a mistake and wanted to pay a sub.

Technically self certified means you are sick, not your wife unfortunately so I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on there. Could you take them unpaid if the BOM would sanction it? It doesn't work out that expensive with tax

chases0102

Yeah, totally prepared to take unpaid leave.

Nice to clear that up about self certification - is it a grey area then within system, as Paternity Leave does state leave for after the baby is born? What have other expectant fathers done in this situation, for the labour period before the baby is born.

Could Force Majeure be an option?

chases0102

Yeah, totally prepared to take unpaid leave.

Nice to clear that up about self certification - is it a grey area then within system, as Paternity Leave does state leave for after the baby is born? What have other expectant fathers done in this situation, for the labour period before the baby is born.

Could Force Majeure be an option?

Millem

Take force majure.
Ring the leave section in the department. Check if that's ok to be absent on Friday and then start leave after easter. If needs be come in on the Monday and start the Tuesday. They can also check what your DP logged into the system.

The_Valeyard

Take force majure. That's what I did.

Then unexplained sickness days for two.

Then waited the following Monday to begin leave.


You decide when you take it, you have to sign the forms to department and chosen dates. Not the school.

But be prepared to wait a couple months to get money back.

TheDriver

Here's one mistake that we should take note of-you informed that school that she was in labour and assumed self certified. Never assume anything and state things clearly e.g. I need to take 2 days force majeure due to medical emergency of a family member etc.
A teacher saying they're missing due to labour does suggest paternity leave.
And the DP has a fund to pay that sub anyways so mistakes can be rectified

chases0102

Thanks for your replies everyone.

Driver, when you say fund that the DP can use, do you mean Force Majeure, or something else?

TheDriver

Its all kinda the same, there's the surplus from those who opted out of S&S and there's a fund for school business.....

Collyb101

PATERNITY LEAVE IS A LOAD OF CRAP
I recently took Paternity leave for two weeks. I availed of the two weeks social welfare money thinking this would go little way to retrieving the two weeks pay I would loose from my time off. I WAS WRONG
Well unknown to me at the time, my tax credits have been amended to retrieve those payments from me. I rang the revenue and they said that is normal. There are no special circumstances here, I have been in employment for many years without a break.
So my Fiance takes Maternity leave and even avails of tax breaks in this 6/7 months period but I (Men) get two weeks off and if they take this €460 the revenue will recover this via reducing tax credits until the end of that financial year.
Does this bother any other fathers??????????????????


<Please don't duplicate across multiple fora, ta. Mod>

mirrorwall14

Collyb101 wrote: »

PATERNITY LEAVE IS A LOAD OF CRAP
I recently took Paternity leave for two weeks. I availed of the two weeks social welfare money thinking this would go little way to retrieving the two weeks pay I would loose from my time off. I WAS WRONG
Well unknown to me at the time, my tax credits have been amended to retrieve those payments from me. I rang the revenue and they said that is normal. There are no special circumstances here, I have been in employment for many years without a break.
So my Fiance takes Maternity leave and even avails of tax breaks in this 6/7 months period but I (Men) get two weeks off and if they take this €460 the revenue will recover this via reducing tax credits until the end of that financial year.
Does this bother any other fathers??????????????????

Are you a teacher? My tax (as a mother) was also crap when I came back from maternity. Even though I was on 'full pay' maternity because of the combination of social welfare/top up I didn't pay enough tax during maternity

Collyb101

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Are you a teacher? My tax (as a mother) was also crap when I came back from maternity. Even though I was on 'full pay' maternity because of the combination of social welfare/top up I didn't pay enough tax during maternity

No i'm not a teacher no, why do you ask? lol.
I'm surprised they claim you did not pay enough tax. They must have messed your calculations up. Here is a snippit of a paragraph on Citizens Advice:

" Maternity Benefit is taxable for all claimants. Universal Social Charge and PRSI are not payable. "

Now for Men, you get no wage for two weeks, you receive €460 and then they just reduce your Tax Credits to claim back that €460.

mark_jmc

Hi Colly,
I may be wrong but I think the tax credit adjustment is just to ensure that the payment is taxed- not to recoup the payment itself

Collyb101

mark_jmc wrote: »

Hi Colly,
I may be wrong but I think the tax credit adjustment is just to ensure that the payment is taxed- not to recoup the payment itself

It must take into consideration other factors though. I'm working it out and the amended tax credits are costing me around a difference of €400 from March to the year end (10 months at €40 roughly.
That is €400 tax on €460 payment.

I haven't gone back to my pay slips for the time in question though and checked what tax I paid within those periods so possibly I was not taxed enough on the payments I received that month and they need to amend along with taxing me on the €460.
I don't think the €460 should be taxable in the first place, disgrace. And none of this was sold to the public.

mirrorwall14

Collyb101 wrote: »

It must take into consideration other factors though. I'm working it out and the amended tax credits are costing me around a difference of €400 from March to the year end (10 months at €40 roughly.
That is €400 tax on €460 payment.

I haven't gone back to my pay slips for the time in question though and checked what tax I paid within those periods so possibly I was not taxed enough on the payments I received that month and they need to amend along with taxing me on the €460.
I don't think the €460 should be taxable in the first place, disgrace. And none of this was sold to the public.

Because this is the teaching and lecturing forum....

Maternity benefit is taxable so I don't see why paternity leave wouldn't be albeit that I don't think either should be taxable. If you believe you will end up over paying just apply for a balancing statement at the end of maternity. I had to and I'm sure most mums who are receiving a top up do due to the ridiculous way it's paid (employee pays minus the deducted maternity benefit meaning you underpay tax for the six months and have to overpay afterwards to make it up)

ibarelycare

Collyb101 wrote: »

I don't think the €460 should be taxable in the first place, disgrace. And none of this was sold to the public.

Both maternity benefit and paternity benefit are subject to PAYE. It is public information.

Collyb101

ibarelycare wrote: »

Both maternity benefit and paternity benefit are subject to PAYE. It is public information.

Both maybe subject to PAYE but mothers are entitled to their FULL PAY minus PAYE. So they are on more income than when they were working as they no longer pay PRSI and USC. Meanwhile fathers lose their two weeks full wages for a €230 per week payment that will also be taxed.

Stheno

Collyb101 wrote: »

Both maybe subject to PAYE but mothers are entitled to their FULL PAY minus PAYE. So they are on more income than when they were working as they no longer pay PRSI and USC. Meanwhile fathers lose their two weeks full wages for a €230 per week payment that will also be taxed.

No mother is entitled to anything other than the maternity benefit payment, employers have no obligation to top it up to full pay.

ibarelycare

Collyb101 wrote: »

Both maybe subject to PAYE but mothers are entitled to their FULL PAY minus PAYE. So they are on more income than when they were working as they no longer pay PRSI and USC. Meanwhile fathers lose their two weeks full wages for a €230 per week payment that will also be taxed.

Most of what you've been ranting about is incorrect. It's at an employer's discretion whether they top up an employee's pay when they're on maternity/paternity/illness etc leave. If YOUR employer tops up maternity leave and not paternity leave then I would challenge this, but what your fiancé's employer pays her while she is on ML is absolutely nothing to do with your situation.

TheDriver

This is a forum on teaching and learning including pay in relation to education sector employees. The discussion is becoming a very general debate/rant on non teacher pay. Please keep this discussion to teaching/education sector employees and their terms/conditions.
@Collyb101: you may prefer to debate this in different fora that involved a general spread of employees similar to your own situation.