M50 toll solicitor's letter

LUDublin

Hi Guys,

I know there's been a few other posts regarding the M50 toll but nothing that I saw really covered my situation.

I have a UK car which is registered in Northern Ireland. I drove through the tolls a few times last year and received penalties which I didn't pay. Recently I received a solicitor's letter demanding payment. The fines were crazy as well. Around 150 euros per toll. The letter said my credit rating would be affected and may be summoned to court.

I was wondering how this can affect my credit rating as I'm not in agreement with them?

Also I don't see how they can summons someone registered in Northern Ireland to a Dublin court?

Lastly I'm in Dublin all the time and I was wondering if anything would happen if the Garda stopped me?

Thanks a million guys.

me_irl

A quick google search brought up this article from 2008.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/31/transport

amcalester

You drove through the tolls, past the big signs telling you that there was a toll and you don't think you agreed?

BetsyEllen

LUDublin wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I know there's been a few other posts regarding the M50 toll but nothing that I saw really covered my situation.

I have a UK car which is registered in Northern Ireland. I drove through the tolls a few times last year and received penalties which I didn't pay. Recently I received a solicitor's letter demanding payment. The fines were crazy as well. Around 150 euros per toll. The letter said my credit rating would be affected and may be summoned to court.

I was wondering how this can affect my credit rating as I'm not in agreement with them?

Also I don't see how they can summons someone registered in Northern Ireland to a Dublin court?

Lastly I'm in Dublin all the time and I was wondering if anything would happen if the Garda stopped me?

Thanks a million guys.

I can't answer all of your questions but I don't think the guards can do anything if you're stopped - it's nothing to do with them and they won't know anything about it.

What can happen if you don't pay the fine is they can register judgement and also send a sheriff to collect the car. And they will - google it, lots of cars were seized last year.

Saying you're not in agreement with them doesn't stand up in court - using the service, i.e. driving the road will be seen as 'deemed contract'.
Basically you knew the terms of the service and used it, hence you owe the money.

It's an absolutely awful system once it goes to the solicitors - I'm currently paying off a 'debt' of 4 journeys that escalated to over €800.
I'm paying €50 per month.
You have my full sympathy, it's a load of crap. The stress I had to go through to even get them to agree to €50 per month was unreal.

I think the law changed last year so that debts in the South can be pursued in the North.

me_irl

Oh, and this thread from 2011.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056252111

So, you're receiving appropriate punishment for not paying the tolls.

biko

Is this some freeman crap?

Isambard

no one to blame but yourself for your situation I'm afraid.

LUDublin

amcalester wrote: »

You drove through the tolls, past the big signs telling you that there was a toll and you don't think you agreed?

I wasn't trying to say that I didn't see the signs. My point was that I didn't sign a credit agreement so how can it affect your credit rating? I was trying to find out if anyone has ever heard of someone's credit rating actually being affected specifically a UK driver.

Gumbo

Use our roads, pay the toll and cop on.

bladespin

Hmmm, nothing really on outcomes, debt collection agencies for the most part seem to be just pests with little power from most of what I'm reading, anyone got anything showing an outcome rather than threats?

pa990

They are not solicitors, they are a debt collection agency with a clever name.

If you've an out of state vehicle, and an out of state address, I wouldn't be overly concerned.

Let it play out.

Sleeper12

LUDublin wrote:

I was wondering how this can affect my credit rating as I'm not in agreement with them?

When the bill hits around 3k and it will. It goes up every day you ignore it. They get a judgment against you. This kills your credit rating. Your car can be seized too. You used their toll so you owe the money. Best advice is talk to them before you owe thousands.

Sleeper12

pa990 wrote:

If you've an out of state vehicle, and an out of state address, I wouldn't be overly concerned.

Not the best advice. They will get a judgment against him even if he's outside the state. Credit rating will be smashed

LUDublin

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I can't answer all of your questions but I don't think the guards can do anything if you're stopped - it's nothing to do with them and they won't know anything about it.

What can happen if you don't pay the fine is they can register judgement and also send a sheriff to collect the car. And they will - google it, lots of cars were seized last year.

Saying you're not in agreement with them doesn't stand up in court - using the service, i.e. driving the road will be seen as 'deemed contract'.
Basically you knew the terms of the service and used it, hence you owe the money.

It's an absolutely awful system once it goes to the solicitors - I'm currently paying off a 'debt' of 4 journeys that escalated to over €800.
I'm paying €50 per month.
You have my full sympathy, it's a load of crap. The stress I had to go through to even get them to agree to €50 per month was unreal.

I think the law changed last year so that debts in the South can be pursued in the North.

Thanks for your reply.

One of my concerns was if there was a Garda checkpoint could they seize the car but as you said the Garda wouldn't know anything about it.

I had heard of people having their cars seized although I was wondering if they could still seize my car if it is registered up North. The Garda wouldn't be able to collect it from the North I'd imagine.

I know what you mean by the "deemed contract" although I would wonder how it would ever get to court. I know there is various articles about Northern drivers being pursued by I haven't heard of anything happen to a Northern or UK driver apart from the solicitor's letter.

Your situation seems awful and it's crazy that they'd bill you 800 euros for 4 tolls.

In summary I'm just trying to find out will my credit rating actually be affected and is there any way they can seize a UK registered car. I know they threaten to do this all the time however I've never actually heard of this happening to someone from the UK.

Joe Hill

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not the best advice. They will get a judgment against him even if he's outside the state. Credit rating will be smashed

Jax roll mate.

GM228

LUDublin wrote: »

I wasn't trying to say that I didn't see the signs. My point was that I didn't sign a credit agreement so how can it affect your credit rating? I was trying to find out if anyone has ever heard of someone's credit rating actually being affected specifically a UK driver.

Only a UK rating under one of the UK Credit Reference Agencies can be affected by a non paid fine, but only when there is a County Court Judgement against you.

ICB credit ratings can't be affected by non payment of fines.

HeidiHeidi

LUDublin wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.

One of my concerns was if there was a Garda checkpoint could they seize the car but as you said the Garda wouldn't know anything about it.

I had heard of people having their cars seized although I was wondering if they could still seize my car if it is registered up North. The Garda wouldn't be able to collect it from the North I'd imagine.

I know what you mean by the "deemed contract" although I would wonder how it would ever get to court. I know there is various articles about Northern drivers being pursued by I haven't heard of anything happen to a Northern or UK driver apart from the solicitor's letter.

Your situation seems awful and it's crazy that they'd bill you 800 euros for 4 tolls.

In summary I'm just trying to find out will my credit rating actually be affected and is there any way they can seize a UK registered car. I know they threaten to do this all the time however I've never actually heard of this happening to someone from the UK.

They didn't bill you 800 euros for 4 tolls (as I'm sure you realise).

Sleeper12

GM228 wrote:

ICB credit ratings can't be affected by non payment of fines.

They are affected when the fee gets into the thousands and eflow bring him to court. The judgment against him will effect his rating. I'm sure there's threads here somewhere explaining this

GM228

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They are affected when the fee gets into the thousands and eflow bring him to court. The judgment against him will effect his rating. I'm sure there's threads here somewhere explaining this

Only judgements against you taken by crediters who are banks, credit unions and local authorities and are members of the ICB are recorded by the ICB.

Judgements in relation to anything else or involving non members of the ICB isn't recorded on the ICB.

LUDublin

GM228 wrote: »

Only judgements against you taken by crediters who are banks, credit unions and local authorities and are members of the ICB are recorded by the ICB.

Judgements in relation to anything else or involving non members of the ICB isn't recorded on the ICB.

The thing I was wondering Sleeper12 is how they could bring me to court if my car is registered in the north.

@GM228 - Thanks for the information you've provided it's been a big help. By the sound of things this wouldn't affect my credit rating even if I had a credit rating with the ICB. My credit reference is with a UK agency though.

The reason I posted this is because I've never heard of anything actually happening to a UK registered driver as I don't see how they can seize the car or affect the credit rating.

LUDublin

bladespin wrote: »

Hmmm, nothing really on outcomes, debt collection agencies for the most part seem to be just pests with little power from most of what I'm reading, anyone got anything showing an outcome rather than threats?

That's what I was thinking. I'd be interested to see if anyone has an example of something actually happening apart from threatening letters

LUDublin

pa990 wrote: »

They are not solicitors, they are a debt collection agency with a clever name.

If you've an out of state vehicle, and an out of state address, I wouldn't be overly concerned.

Let it play out.

That's what I was thinking. I just can't see how they can enforce any of their threats with a UK driver.

Delacent

LUDublin wrote: »

The thing I was wondering Sleeper12 is how they could bring me to court if my car is registered in the north.

@GM228 - Thanks for the information you've provided it's been a big help. By the sound of things this wouldn't affect my credit rating even if I had a credit rating with the ICB. My credit reference is with a UK agency though.

The reason I posted this is because I've never heard of anything actually happening to a UK registered driver as I don't see how they can seize the car or affect the credit rating.

The additional charges will increase and increase.
Then there will be the court charges.

Then there'll be local enforcement.

Then you'll wish you paid the €3


Here are the guys that will go after you
https://www.epcplc.com/legal_information

You really want to risk potential thousands just to be a stubborn eejit?

dudara

LUDublin wrote: »

That's what I was thinking. I just can't see how they can enforce any of their threats with a UK driver.

I'd have to dig it out, but they can persue you for your debt. Ireland is a two-country island, do you really think that debts suddenly disappear once you cross the border?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cars-seized-from-drivers-owing-average-28-600-in-m50-tolls-1.2717290

My advice, engage with them, see if you can negotiate downwards and pay what you owe. eFlow have actually been very good to deal with IMO when I've had issues in the past and received a warning letter based on the previous owner.

RayCun

LUDublin wrote: »

That's what I was thinking. I just can't see how they can enforce any of their threats with a UK driver.

This was all addressed in an article linked at the start of the thread.

The gardai are not going to come and seize your car. But the debt is being pursued by a debt collection agency. They can, if it becomes necessary, get a judgement against you in a NI court. That would end up with a sheriff seizing your car.

Your irish credit rating would not be effected, but of course you don't care about an Irish credit rating. If you have a British debt collection agency pursuing you through British courts then your British credit rating will suffer.

I've zero sympathy. You thought you could ignore the charge but you should have paid it.

robtri

where do you reside??

MugMugs

dudara wrote: »

I'd have to dig it out, but they can persue you for your debt. Ireland is a two-country island, do you really think that debts suddenly disappear once you cross the border?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cars-seized-from-drivers-owing-average-28-600-in-m50-tolls-1.2717290

My advice, engage with them, see if you can negotiate downwards and pay what you owe. eFlow have actually been very good to deal with IMO when I've had issues in the past and received a warning letter based on the previous owner.

I'm not arguing the toss here but can a judgement in the Republic be enforced in another country?

RayCun

MugMugs wrote: »

I'm not arguing the toss here but can a judgement in the Republic be enforced in another country?

That's not what would happen.

A judgement would be issued in the country where it is to be enforced.

EPC would go to the court and demonstrate that they are authorised to collect the debt and that the debt is valid.

MugMugs

RayCun wrote: »

EPC would go to the court and demonstrate that they are authorised to collect the debt and that the debt is valid.

In the North?

RayCun

MugMugs wrote: »

In the North?

Yeah, that's where the guy lives so that's where they'd go to court.

robtri

MugMugs wrote: »

I'm not arguing the toss here but can a judgement in the Republic be enforced in another country?

in short yes....

Recognition and enforcement of judgments
The UK is a party to treaty-based schemes for the enforcement of judgments
as a member of the European Union and the European Economic
Area. The Brussels I Regulation, Council Regulation (EC) 44/2001 (the
Regulation) on jurisdiction and the recognition and enforcement of judgments
in civil and commercial matters provides for the speedy and simplified
enforcement of judgments obtained in the courts of one member state
in all other member states. The Regulation applies to orders of courts and
tribunals of any nature, save that it specifically excludes revenue, customs
and administrative law matters. It also does not apply to orders pertaining
to matrimonial relationships, wills, succession, bankruptcy, social security
or arbitration. Judicial decisions on the Regulation by the Court of Justice
of the European Union (CJEU) are binding on member states.





also

an article from 2014 about M%) using UK debt collectors to go after Northern Ireland Drivers

http://www.thejournal.ie/debt-collectors-m50-toll-evaders-1679184-Sep2014/