Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017 *Warnings see OP-updated 09/05/17*

LuckyLloyd

omega man wrote: »

To be honest now I want to win the cup just to throw it back at my pool supporting mates. They celebrated 4th after slagging arsenal players and fans doing likewise for years. So after been told it's all about trophies I want to remind them of that!! Oh the pettiness :-)

"What's rare is wonderful"

I doubt there would be 'celebrations' if we finished fourth each of the next two seasons and there was no serious run in Europe to accompany it.

Hunky Monster

Hunky Monster wrote: »

That's why I'm not even upset at not making it. I'm more upset about qualifying for the Europa league tbh. And yeah yeah "top players are not likely to sign now"...well that's horse sh1t as man united and Chelsea have proved recently. Show ambition and throw enough money down and the will come, neither of which arsenal are good at anyway.

Wenger has held the club to ransom for too long, it's disgusting what's happening.

Your right, the ambition argument is nonsense. Robinho signed for City back in 2008 and he didnt know where he was, he just seen the pound notes and followed them. Now he isnt the kind of calibre we are looking for but it shows that really good players will follow the money as much as the ambition. Ambition is only blurb and sh1te talk used as leverage for agents to get clubs to fork out more. The only thing is we will end up paying through the nose for players now to tempt them but ive no doubt they will come if the right offer is made.

This self sufficiency talk is a load of tosh too. The only ones winning from Arsenal is Wenger, Kroenke and the board.

Well said Chris Hudson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgVQem2uyfI

Royale with Cheese

Koscielny banned, Gabriel and Mustafi probably injured. It'll be a centre back pairing of Holding and Mertesacker, or more likely a back 3 with Monreal and Gibbs playing left wing back. The only plus point to this season will now probably end with a comprehensive defeat, I just can't see arsenal winning with that defence.

Hyzepher

tayto lover wrote: »

We got 75 points our of a possible 114. A bit less than two-thirds.
Not hectic when you consider the quality of the teams from 8th down but very telling against the teams at the top.

Against the other 6 teams in the Top 7 we got -

3 against Chelsea.
1 against Spurs.
1 against Man City.
0 against Liverpool.
4 against Man United.
3 against Everton.

That's 12 out of a possible 36. Not good enough.
It's also 63 out of a possible 78 against the rest which is not too bad but still not enough to make Top 4.
I think it's the 12 out of 36 against the Top teams that ruined our season and told in the end.

Ultimately it was the games against Liverpool that had us scrambling. Especially the opener to the season when we should have beaten them.

Skylinehead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

"What's rare is wonderful"

I doubt there would be 'celebrations' if we finished fourth each of the next two seasons and there was no serious run in Europe to accompany it.

Don't pretend your club is above any of that, we're all the same.

LuckyLloyd

Skylinehead wrote: »

Don't pretend your club is above any of that, we're all the same.

I don't know what FSG are above or below, and it is true that many fans would accept just being in the CL year after year. But, just as has been the case on this thread over the years, a significant portion of the fan base of have bigger ambitions. A platform to bigger things needs to become exactly that at a certain point, otherwise it is mere stagnation.

Skylinehead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't know what FSG are above or below, and it is true that many fans would accept just being in the CL year after year. But, just as has been the case on this thread over the years, a significant portion of the fan base of have bigger ambitions. A platform to bigger things needs to become exactly that at a certain point, otherwise it is mere stagnation.

I don't disagree with any of that - but football fans are no different, and what seems to generate the most ire was Arsenal players celebrating 4th. I've seen nothing to suggest Liverpool players do anything else.

Quazzie

Skylinehead wrote: »

I don't disagree with any of that - but football fans are no different, and what seems to generate the most ire was Arsenal players celebrating 4th. I've seen nothing to suggest Liverpool players do anything else.

Do you not think after a long season qualifying for the Champions League is something worth celebrating? It's infinitely more worthy of a celebration than a 2-2 draw at home to West Brom.

Skylinehead

Quazzie wrote: »

Do you not think after a long season qualifying for the Champions League is something worth celebrating? It's infinitely more worthy of a celebration than a 2-2 draw at home to West Brom.

Oh I've no problem with anyone celebrating that, it's the idea that it's just Arsenal players that do it that gets me.

Quazzie

Skylinehead wrote: »

Oh I've no problem with anyone celebrating that, it's the idea that it's just Arsenal players that do it that gets me.

In your professional life, do you not celebrate when you meet certain targets set out in your job?

KaiserGunner

Hyzepher wrote: »

Ultimately it was the games against Liverpool that had us scrambling. Especially the opener to the season when we should have beaten them.

Yeah we effectively threw away 5 points at the start of the season by not having the squad ready and prepared for the first two games of the season.

However even getting top 4 wouldn't have masked what an absolute failure this season was. Finishing 18 points from the top of the table is not good enough and being embarrassed against Bayern over the two legs isn't good enough. The situation that Arsenal are in as a club at this moment in time is completely self inflicted.

Talisman

Hyzepher wrote: »

Ultimately it was the games against Liverpool that had us scrambling. Especially the opener to the season when we should have beaten them.

You're fooling yourself if you think it's that simple. After the opening game, Arsenal had 37 games left in the season to make up the 3 points. There were plenty of games where the players couldn't be bothered for much of the match.

wandatowell

I haven't read any "€200M WARCHEST" stories in a while.

Skylinehead

Quazzie wrote: »

In your professional life, do you not celebrate when you meet certain targets set out in your job?

Eh I think we're broadly in agreement here - I don't have any issues with them celebrating

Pudders

Just renewed my two season tickets.

£65 discount on each ticket for 1 less cup game this year.
£185 discount on each ticket for Europa next year.

That's a c£10m hit on revenue for silent Stan.

Every cloud has a silver lining I suppose. Not as if he was going to spend it on the team.

tayto lover

wandatowell wrote: »

I haven't read any "€200M WARCHEST" stories in a while.

That was all bulls**t from Wenger and the Board to appease the fans.
Wenger is the umbilical chord attached to the Board and those trying to separate him from blame or responsibility are fooling themselves. He's just as guilty as them or even more so.

We need complete change at the club but there's not a snowballs chance in hell of us getting that.

Quazzie

Skylinehead wrote: »

Eh I think we're broadly in agreement here - I don't have any issues with them celebrating

Ooops. I read your post wrong. My bad

tayto lover

Talisman wrote: »

You're fooling yourself if you think it's that simple. After the opening game, Arsenal had 37 games left in the season to make up the 3 points. There were plenty of games where the players couldn't be bothered for much of the match.

That's not the point.
We had all summer to prepare for the start of the season but they hummed and hawed and did feck all preparation work. Fail to prepare ....etc.

Talisman

tayto lover wrote: »

That's not the point.
We had all summer to prepare for the start of the season but they hummed and hawed and did feck all preparation work. Fail to prepare ....etc.

That's a different argument.

Mertesacker, Koscielny, Gabriel, Jenkinson, Ozil, Welbeck and Giroud were unavailable for the start of the season. It's delusional to think that Arsenal should beat a team expecting to challenge for the top 4 while fielding a makeshift defence and without Ozil or the option of Giroud. Don't forget that Alberto Moreno gifted Arsenal a penalty which was saved moments before he created the opening goal. Liverpool fought back into the game and almost blew it but they held on to get the result.

tayto lover

Talisman wrote: »

That's a different argument.

Mertesacker, Koscielny, Gabriel, Jenkinson, Ozil, Welbeck and Giroud were unavailable for the start of the season. It's delusional to think that Arsenal should beat a team expecting to challenge for the top 4 while fielding a makeshift defence and without Ozil or the option of Giroud. Don't forget that Alberto Moreno gifted Arsenal a penalty which was saved moments before he created the opening goal. Liverpool fought back into the game and almost blew it but they held on to get the result.

You keep missing the point -- we failed to prepare just like we have done on previous occasions at the start of a season. You use the tools you have or do something different.
A year or two earlier many Arsenal fans were delighted that we got away draws in our first two games at Stoke and Sunderland when we should be beating both.

Hyzepher

Talisman wrote: »

You're fooling yourself if you think it's that simple. After the opening game, Arsenal had 37 games left in the season to make up the 3 points. There were plenty of games where the players couldn't be bothered for much of the match.

Wasn't claiming it to be simple - just responding to our performance against the top teams, Liverpool opener in particular where we went ahead and shipped 4 goals.

Hyzepher

Hyzepher wrote: »

Wasn't claiming it to be simple - just responding to our performance against the top teams, Liverpool opener in particular where we went ahead and shipped 4 goals.

Ahead against City

Ahead against Everton

Anyway.....any rumours on who we're signing for next season?

54and56

omega man wrote: »

To be honest now I want to win the cup just to throw it back at my pool supporting mates. They celebrated 4th after slagging arsenal players and fans doing likewise for years. So after been told it's all about trophies I want to remind them of that!! Oh the pettiness :-)

Didn't want to respond to this yesterday as feelings were running high but you are misrepresenting Liverpool fans celebrations by equating it to Arsenal continuously celebrating the achievement of a top 4 PL finish.

To use a well understood analogy. If you haven't had a girlfriend for a few years and after a long chase you get to first base you punch the air and are happy with your progress. That's why Liverpool fans are celebrating getting 4th in the league, it's the equivalent of getting to first base when you haven't been there for a while.

On the next date you expect to achieve first base again and if you play your cards right you've a good shot at getting to second base. It might take another couple of dates to get to third base but if you're lucky and the stars align you might actually get to fourth base within 3-4 but certainly within 7-8 dates.

If after a dozen or so dates you are still nowhere near fourth base you shouldn't really be celebrating but that is what much of the Arsenal hierarchy, team and fan base have been settling for and for a club that produced the Invincible's that's just wrong. Standards have really slipped. Vierra, Dixon et al would never have settled for being perennial runners up and neither would Wegner of the late nineties and early noughties.

If Liverpool haven't turned an initial 1st base into consistent CL qualification and a PL title within 5 years I don't think many of us will be doing a lot of celebrating when 3rd or 4th is "achieved".

eagle eye

Dixon was on teams that finished a lot further down the table than fifth, so was Adams, Keown and Winterburn.

75 points is the highest ever total of a team in fifth place since the Premier league begun.

I'm not defending Wenger here to the core but some people are going totally overboard. If he keep his job for another two years it's not the biggest shock in the world, nor the end of the world either, and he hasn't done that badly.

Basically people have become more expectant because of the standard his teams maintained for a long time.

brianregan09

Is he gone yet

Quazzie

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Didn't want to respond to this yesterday as feelings were running high but you are misrepresenting Liverpool fans celebrations by equating it to Arsenal continuously celebrating the achievement of a top 4 PL finish.

To use a well understood analogy. If you haven't had a girlfriend for a few years and after a long chase you get to first base you punch the air and are happy with your progress. That's why Liverpool fans are celebrating getting 4th in the league, it's the equivalent of getting to first base when you haven't been there for a while.

On the next date you expect to achieve first base again and if you play your cards right you've a good shot at getting to second base. It might take another couple of dates to get to third base but if you're lucky and the stars align you might actually get to fourth base within 3-4 but certainly within 7-8 dates.

If after a dozen or so dates you are still nowhere near fourth base you shouldn't really be celebrating but that is what much of the Arsenal hierarchy, team and fan base have been settling for and for a club that produced the Invincible's that's just wrong. Standards have really slipped. Vierra, Dixon et al would never have settled for being perennial runners up and neither would Wegner of the late nineties and early noughties.

If Liverpool haven't turned an initial 1st base into consistent CL qualification and a PL title within 5 years I don't think many of us will be doing a lot of celebrating when 3rd or 4th is "achieved".

But what Liverpool fans are doing is celebrating because they found a nice girl who was drunk enough so they got the shift, whereas Arsenal are just bored of fingerblasting the local hot bird so now they want to go out and see what else is out there. You keep plugging away tho dude, but just remember she's eventually going to sober up, and then she'll realise you're not that special and you'll back to playing with yourself looking at the big boys pulling every weekend.

sonic85

I'd be afraid now that Arsenal will go on a bit of a slide and finish even further back next season. Could be quite a while before we see top 4 again never mind win the thing

KaiserGunner

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

If after a dozen or so dates you are still nowhere near fourth base you shouldn't really be celebrating but that is what much of the Arsenal hierarchy, team and fan base have been settling for and for a club that produced the Invincible's that's just wrong. Standards have really slipped. Vierra, Dixon et al would never have settled for being perennial runners up and neither would Wegner of the late nineties and early noughties.

If Liverpool haven't turned an initial 1st base into consistent CL qualification and a PL title within 5 years I don't think many of us will be doing a lot of celebrating when 3rd or 4th is "achieved".

I hear this a lot especially from Liverpool fans on boards and real life about The Arsenal fan base settling for just top 4. That is completely wrong. The Arsenal fans want their team winning leagues and European cups just as much as any other fans. I haven't been happy for just a top 4 finish since Wenger first took charge and have never celebrated it. Top 4 is a minimum requirement and is not the marks of a successful season. The league or Champions League is what constitutes success for the big clubs these days.

tayto lover

sonic85 wrote: »

I'd be afraid now that Arsenal will go on a bit of a slide and finish even further back next season. Could be quite a while before we see top 4 again never mind win the thing

The problem now is keeping the players we have before even thinking of buying.
If Sanchez and Ozil leave then we are in deep trouble. Players like them are nearly impossible to replace. There could well be a bit of an exodus from the club. I personally have a doubt that Koscielney will stay.
We will know in the weeks just after the FA Cup final.

Panthro

sonic85 wrote: »

I'd be afraid now that Arsenal will go on a bit of a slide and finish even further back next season. Could be quite a while before we see top 4 again never mind win the thing

Chelsea fan in ( hold fire!)
Obviously no fans want to see their team slip down the table for a season or so but.. depending on the circumstances (ie say ye get a new manager in, he gets in a few players he wants, has a season to "bed in" as it were) the season after could/should see ye up pushing for a top 4 or higher spot.
Chelsea took a massive slump, Jose was shipped ( it caused heartache for many but few would disagree now in fairness)
We got fierce lucky with Conte, beginning of the season we'd have bitten the paws off anyone offering us a top 4 spot.
If Arsenal were to take a dip for a season, it might not be all that bad. A new manager has a season to bed in, get his troops in order, no European football to contend with.
It's all ifs and buts, I know but grin and bear it for the time being is what I'd say


(Annnd FIRE!)

Ardennes1944

Its ok lads, Henry is a comin http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/10889179/arsenal-in-talks-to-sign-henry-onyekuru-from-belgian-side-kas-eupen

Marcus Antonius

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

Its ok lads, Henry is a comin http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/10889179/arsenal-in-talks-to-sign-henry-onyekuru-from-belgian-side-kas-eupen

Sanchez or Ozil replacement?!

CatInABox

Panthro wrote: »

Chelsea fan in ( hold fire!)
Obviously no fans want to see their team slip down the table for a season or so but.. depending on the circumstances (ie say ye get a new manager in, he gets in a few players he wants, has a season to "bed in" as it were) the season after could/should see ye up pushing for a top 4 or higher spot.
Chelsea took a massive slump, Jose was shipped ( it caused heartache for many but few would disagree now in fairness)
We got fierce lucky with Conte, beginning of the season we'd have bitten the paws off anyone offering us a top 4 spot.
If Arsenal were to take a dip for a season, it might not be all that bad. A new manager has a season to bed in, get his troops in order, no European football to contend with.
It's all ifs and buts, I know but grin and bear it for the time being is what I'd say


(Annnd FIRE!)

In fairness, don't think you'll find many disagreeing here, you can hardly argue with the results that Chelsea have had over the last few years. You guys have a board that are motivated by trophies. We don't. Everything flows from that. I have no confidence that a year spent languishing in 6th/7th will result in the necessary changes to see us back in the top four. If Wenger is replaced, we won't get a top class manager, we'll get a "Moyes" style manager, or an up and coming one, who may need 3 years before he gets the hang of a major team, if ever.

No confidence whatsoever.

54and56

eagle eye wrote: »

Dixon was on teams that finished a lot further down the table than fifth, so was Adams, Keown and Winterburn.

Of course, but they didn't settle for or celebrate it did they?

eagle eye wrote: »

75 points is the highest ever total of a team in fifth place since the Premier league begun.

Why would a team like Arsenal who perennially finish 2nd to 4th be content at doing so? Your statement about how 75 points would normally secure at least 4th place neatly summarises the point I was making.

54and56

Quazzie wrote: »

But what Liverpool fans are doing is celebrating because they found a nice girl who was drunk enough so they got the shift, whereas Arsenal are just bored of fingerblasting the local hot bird so now they want to go out and see what else is out there. You keep plugging away tho dude, but just remember she's eventually going to sober up, and then she'll realise you're not that special and you'll back to playing with yourself looking at the big boys pulling every weekend.

Fair play Quazzie, love it

54and56

KaiserGunner wrote: »

I hear this a lot especially from Liverpool fans on boards and real life about The Arsenal fan base settling for just top 4. That is completely wrong. The Arsenal fans want their team winning leagues and European cups just as much as any other fans. I haven't been happy for just a top 4 finish since Wenger first took charge and have never celebrated it. Top 4 is a minimum requirement and is not the marks of a successful season. The league or Champions League is what constitutes success for the big clubs these days.

Glad to hear it. I know plenty of Arsenal fans who have become increasingly frustrated at the acceptance of top 4 as a successful season. As you will have noted in my post, I said "some" of the Arsenal fan base were happy with finishing in the top 4 each year. I'm glad to see that cohort is declining fast!!

cj maxx

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Glad to hear it. I know plenty of Arsenal fans who have become increasingly frustrated at the acceptance of top 4 as a successful season. As you will have noted in my post, I said "some" of the Arsenal fan base were happy with finishing in the top 4 each year. I'm glad to see that cohort is declining fast!!

Pool fan here , but I think top 4 every year meant a a chance every year to win a champions league for Arsenal fans.
Not just being top 4 in England

greendom

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Glad to hear it. I know plenty of Arsenal fans who have become increasingly frustrated at the acceptance of top 4 as a successful season. As you will have noted in my post, I said "some" of the Arsenal fan base were happy with finishing in the top 4 each year. I'm glad to see that cohort is declining fast!!

I was happy enough with much of that time as the financial constraints due to the stadium build combined with the well known increased spending power of Chelsea and City meant that league titles were always going to be very hard to achieve.

I did that in the expectation that once the financial shackles were released we would be once again challenging. There's where mine and I expect many others derive their frustration.

domrush

cjmc wrote: »

Pool fan here , but I think top 4 every year meant a a chance every year to win a champions league for Arsenal fans.
Not just being top 4 in England

I haven't thought us capable of winning the champions league in about 8 years.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Dixon was on teams that finished a lot further down the table than fifth, so was Adams, Keown and Winterburn.

75 points is the highest ever total of a team in fifth place since the Premier league begun.

I'm not defending Wenger here to the core but some people are going totally overboard. If he keep his job for another two years it's not the biggest shock in the world, nor the end of the world either, and he hasn't done that badly.

Basically people have become more expectant because of the standard his teams maintained for a long time.

Dixon, Winterburn and Adams were on teams that won two championships, one of which was snatched from right under the noses of an all dominant Liverpool in 1989.

In 1990/1991, Arsenal lost 1 league game all season and conceded only 18 goals. They also played some scintillating football throughout the season and won home and away at both Anfield and Old Trafford.

Dixon, Winterburn and Adams also done a cup double in 1993 and beat the holders Parma in the 1994 Cup winners cup final. A team littered with internationals such as Brolin and Asprilla.

Not everything was rosy and they weren't the greatest Arsenal team that ever was but at the very very least they were ambitious and the very best they could be. And they knew what it meant to wear the shirt and what victory meant to the fans.

Remember who you are, where you are and who you represent - David 'Rocky' Rocastle

Did the fans ever sing 'your not fit to wear the shirt at Dixon, Winterburn, Adams?? Did they ever call for George Grahams removal??

54and56

Deleted User wrote: »

Dixon, Winterburn and Adams were on teams that won two championships, one of which was snatched from right under the noses of an all dominant Liverpool in 1989.

In 1990/1991, Arsenal lost 1 league game all season and conceded only 18 goals. They also played some scintillating football throughout the season and won home and away at both Anfield and Old Trafford.

Dixon, Winterburn and Adams also done a cup double in 1993 and beat the holders Parma in the 1994 Cup winners cup final. A team littered with internationals such as Brolin and Asprilla.

Not everything was rosy and they weren't the greatest Arsenal team that ever was but at the very very least they were ambitious and the very best they could be. And they knew what it meant to wear the shirt and what victory meant to the fans.

Remember who you are, where you are and who you represent - David 'Rocky' Rocastle

Did the fans ever sing 'your not fit to wear the shirt at Dixon, Winterburn, Adams?? Did they ever call for George Grahams removal??

Super post, you can feel the passion and that's what is sadly lacking in many clubs and indeed amongst many players these days. Well said tipp-Gunner.

BTW, I remember watching that match with some Arsenal pals and was sick as a pig when Mickie Thomas scored in the last minute.

Gas that he later joined Liverpool making almost as many appearances (124) as he had originally done for Arsenal (163). Always liked him as a player despite breaking my heart that day!!

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Super post, you can feel the passion and that's what is sadly lacking in many clubs and indeed amongst many players these days. Well said tipp-Gunner.

BTW, I remember watching that match with some Arsenal pals and was sick as a pig when Mickie Thomas scored in the last minute.

Gas that he later joined Liverpool making almost as many appearances (124) as he had originally done for Arsenal (163). Always liked him as a player despite breaking my heart that day!!

I remember being very saddened when Michael Thomas scored for Liverpool in the cup final in 1992 v Sunderland (brilliant goal) and nothing against Liverpool but i absolutely loved him as a player for Arsenal. We took Jimmy 'Peanut' Carter as part of that deal in 1991 and while he was a decent player he wasn't a patch on Thomas who had energy in abundance.

I think while he played well for the Pool his best days were probably in the red and white of Arsenal. Its possible that similar to Rocky he may have incurred an injury and perhaps never recovered full form and so was sold off. Its possible that George might have thought Ray Parlour (The Romford Pele) and Ian Selley were ready to make the step up.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Dixon was on teams that finished a lot further down the table than fifth, so was Adams, Keown and Winterburn.

75 points is the highest ever total of a team in fifth place since the Premier league begun.

I'm not defending Wenger here to the core but some people are going totally overboard. If he keep his job for another two years it's not the biggest shock in the world, nor the end of the world either, and he hasn't done that badly.

Basically people have become more expectant because of the standard his teams maintained for a long time.

It's a shock if he doesn't stay.
Also the expectation comes from being one of the biggest, richest clubs in the world, not because we've been 4th for years. Expectations have been lowered for a good while because of all the 4th places.

54and56

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Expectations have been lowered for a good while because of all the 4th places.

I just don't get that. If you are consistently finishing 2nd to 4th should the expectation and pressure not be to bust a gut to go the final step and win the bloody thing? Signing Sanchez looked like that was about to happen but then instead of offloading poorly performing squad players and recruiting the 2 or 3 key players who would have turned that team into PL winners a load of cosy squad players were retained and a bunch of middle of the road players were recruited who haven't improved things at all.

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I just don't get that. If you are consistently finishing 2nd to 4th should the expectation and pressure not be to bust a gut to go the final step and win the bloody thing? Signing Sanchez looked like that was about to happen but then instead of offloading poorly performing squad players and recruiting the 2 or 3 key players who would have turned that team into PL winners a load of cosy squad players were retained and a bunch of middle of the road players were recruited who haven't improved things at all.

If there was an actual title challenge, but that's a long time ago now. There were 10 years without finishing in the top 2, then a 2nd place in a season when it was wide open and it was over well before the end of the season. Watch Arsenal Fan TV, there's still plenty fully behind Wenger. Hell, there's some on here. "What he's done" etc. etc. Hell, look at certain people on here. Though I do find it funny that similar other fans who "Lolled" at Arsenal constantly finishing top 4 are the type who now try to tell us it's a great achievement and we should be happy.

domrush

Deleted User wrote: »

If there was an actual title challenge, but that's a long time ago now. There were 10 years without finishing in the top 2, then a 2nd place in a season when it was wide open and it was over well before the end of the season. Watch Arsenal Fan TV, there's still plenty fully behind Wenger. Hell, there's some on here. "What he's done" etc. etc. Hell, look at certain people on here. Though I do find it funny that similar other fans who "Lolled" at Arsenal constantly finishing top 4 are the type who now try to tell us it's a great achievement and we should be happy.

The last real title challenge was the 2007/08 season. Its a dismal return on 10 years, two fa cups.

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I just don't get that. If you are consistently finishing 2nd to 4th should the expectation and pressure not be to bust a gut to go the final step and win the bloody thing? Signing Sanchez looked like that was about to happen but then instead of offloading poorly performing squad players and recruiting the 2 or 3 key players who would have turned that team into PL winners a load of cosy squad players were retained and a bunch of middle of the road players were recruited who haven't improved things at all.

The ironic thing is we sold off Henry, Pires, Vieira and Freddie as well as getting rid of Campbell, Edu, Cole and Lauren from 2005-2007. Bergkamp also retired in 2006. All of those great players who brought us to great heights were gone with little fuss but down the line we had a job getting rid of rubbish who sat on massive contracts

The fact is while we had some talent to compensate for the mass departure of the invincibles such as Cesc, Clichy and Van Persie but the problem is we also had the likes of Bendtner, Adebayor and Nasri who while talented were trouble makers. Gallas could be also put into that category and perhaps Cesc is also listed in the intersection of that Venn diagram. And then you have the Chamakhs, the Gervinhos, the Andros Santos, Almunia.. middle of the road and mediocre players. This is why im not grateful for 'all' Wenger has done. Ashley Cole was let off for the sake of an extra €5000 a week but yet no questions asked when it came to increasing Wenger's wage. Rewarding mediocrity as Chris Hudson said.

EDIT: ill also add that this current iteration of Arsenal Wenger has built on the promise that this 'british core' will lead from now on. There isnt a leader amongst them and none of them have delivered. The best of them has legs like biscuits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naQSBLUf9mM

Mr.H

I think the issue is that when arsenal fans celebrated a top 4 finish it was when they should have been pushing on for a title challenge. Finishing top 4 was not an achievement when they were a top 4 side.

Liverpool have not been a real top 4 side as of late. They have been competing for top 4 but that's all. Finishing top 4 is an achievement for Liverpool.

Arsenal need change and have done so for a long time now. I'm not trying to kick while ye are down. I truly sympathise and remember Rafa's Liverpool team who were the biggest coefficient side in Europe to falling away into the wilderness of only hoping to finish in the top 4.

It's bigger than wenger though. If wenger goes and the board stay nothing will change. If the board goes and wenger stays again nothing will change. Arsenal need major surgery right now before teams like spurs and liverpool push on. With Chelsea and city already ahead of us all in reality and united trying to buy every player in the world in vein.