Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017 *Warnings see OP-updated 09/05/17*

Mickeroo

Step up, step down all meaningless if they offer enough money. Neymer just signed for the team that finished behind Monaco who have won less European trophies than we have! :pac:

keano_afc

tayto lover wrote: »

A week until our first match.
Anyone feel we are strong enough now to be contenders for the title?

Nope. We're still short. Those around us (with the exception of Middlesex, who have a pretty decent first XI anyway) have strengthened more comprehensively than us. I think we'll make top 4 purely because we wont have as distracting a European campaign, but we're well short when it comes to an assault on the league.

Dolph Starbeam

beer enigma wrote: »

Have a real gut feeling that Sunday's match could be a farewell for Sanchez, I see Monaco are now sniffing around which could well leverage a deal for Lemar.

beer enigma wrote: »

I agree, more of a swan song feeling...mind you if Monaco offer a high enough wage it's a possible. He seems cash motivated. He's apparently putting in extra training to secure his place on Sunday and maybe I'm totally wrong, as I say just a gut feeling.

Did you just respond to yourself?

Zero chance of Sanchez leaving for Monaco. I'm 99% confident he will be with us for the season and knowing Sanchez, even if there is no new deal, he will give everything until the end of the season.

GavRedKing

I've just checked, Chelsea have lost the last 3 Community Shield matches, congrats on the win this Sunday.

Quazzie

keano_afc wrote: »

Nope. We're still short. Those around us (with the exception of Middlesex, who have a pretty decent first XI anyway) have strengthened more comprehensively than us. I think we'll make top 4 purely because we wont have as distracting a European campaign, but we're well short when it comes to an assault on the league.

Won't we playing more games in this mickey mouse cup?

Harry Palmr

keano_afc wrote: »

Nope. We're still short. Those around us (with the exception of Middlesex, who have a pretty decent first XI anyway) have strengthened more comprehensively than us. I think we'll make top 4 purely because we wont have as distracting a European campaign, but we're well short when it comes to an assault on the league.

Planing on playing the kids and throwing the group stage? If taking it seriously and Arsenal really should it's two more games than the CL, and usually in harder to get to and from locations.

GavRedKing

keano_afc wrote: »

Nope. We're still short. Those around us (with the exception of Middlesex, who have a pretty decent first XI anyway) have strengthened more comprehensively than us. I think we'll make top 4 purely because we wont have as distracting a European campaign, but we're well short when it comes to an assault on the league.

I'd say the opposite, if Wenger takes the EL seriously Arsenal could easily win it with yere squad but it could be at the cost of a top 4 place. See Utd as an example the season just gone and Liverpool the one before, but Utd winning it adds a trophy tp the cabinet plus CL football.

I think the incentive to win the EL shouldnt be discounted, Arsenal should walk the group stage and it starts again in February, if Arsenal are in the mix for the title around that stage a call can be made about what squad to use but if theyre say 10-15 points off top at that stage, it could be worth putting the eggs into the EL basket, as finishing 2-4 with no trophy isnt as good as 5th or lower and winning the EL, IMO.

KaiserGunner

Quazzie wrote: »

Won't we playing more games in this mickey mouse cup?

Yeah but, I'm hoping that Wenger plays youths/reserves in that cup. No point playing any player that will be playing in the upcoming league match in the Europa League of any week.
Honestly couldn't give a toss about the Europa League, nowhere as prestigious as it was 15-20 years ago. It's further devalued when teams drop down from the champions league group stages.

beer enigma

Dolph Starbeam wrote: »

Did you just respond to yourself?

Haha No, Kaiser replied then deleted and reposted but it came in after my second post.

marvin80

We haven't strengthened enough to mount a serious title challenge. The best we can hope for is top 4.
It's between City, United and Chelsea.
4th will be tough - Liverpool will be there, hard to know what will happen with Spurs considering they've made no signings and playing in Wembley. Everton might make a good go at it as well.

Be nice to have a go at the Europa League. Hopefully the latter stages (if we get there) are as easy as United had it last season.

KaiserGunner

beer enigma wrote: »

Haha No, Kaiser replied then deleted and reposted but it came in after my second post.

Haha yeah my bad, making you look like a mad man.:pac:

keano_afc

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'd say the opposite, if Wenger takes the EL seriously Arsenal could easily win it with yere squad but it could be at the cost of a top 4 place. See Utd as an example the season just gone and Liverpool the one before, but Utd winning it adds a trophy tp the cabinet plus CL football.

I think the incentive to win the EL shouldnt be discounted, Arsenal should walk the group stage and it starts again in February, if Arsenal are in the mix for the title around that stage a call can be made about what squad to use but if theyre say 10-15 points off top at that stage, it could be worth putting the eggs into the EL basket, as finishing 2-4 with no trophy isnt as good as 5th or lower and winning the EL, IMO.

I just cant see Wenger taking it seriously enough to play a full strength XI every Thursday. His over confidence in his squad will mean the league gets priority, so I expect to see a bit of rotation for the EL.

Wonda-Boy

IMHO I think Wenger really should take the EL very seriously as for me its the only way we are getting back into the Champions League with the squad we have as I type. I really feel we will struggle to get a top 4 this season, and if Lacazette gets injured (as this team is so prone to do) then we are rightly screwed.

Really hope I am wrong all the same.

greendom

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

IMHO I think Wenger really should take the EL very seriously as for me its the only way we are getting back into the Champions League with the squad we have as I type. I really feel we will struggle to get a top 4 this season, and if Lacazette gets injured (as this team is so prone to do) then we are rightly screwed.

Really hope I am wrong all the same.

I think Wenger himself has stated that he won't be treating the europa league as seriously as the champions league.

He's also said that the league is his no 1 priority.

The Thursday/Sunday thing has screwed so many clubs that I"m happy enough with this.

Hyzepher

Sometimes I think Arsenal supporters are overly critical of the team.

Have an unbiased look at our squad, as it stands, and you can't help but see it as a strong squad - Sanchez, Ozil, Lacazette, Giroud, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Walcott, Ramsey, Cech, Mustafi, Koscielny, etc etc. With a few younger talent guys coming through.

The talent is there - it's undeniable.

Getting the best out of that talent is another question. The change of formation may be the catalyst - it really might.

Hanging on to what we have is a big part of our season and I think AW knows this and is prepared to gamble on it.

keano_afc

Hyzepher wrote: »

Sometimes I think Arsenal supporters are overly critical of the team.

Have an unbiased look at our squad, as it stands, and you can't help but see it as a strong squad - Sanchez, Ozil, Lacazette, Giroud, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Walcott, Ramsey, Cech, Mustafi, Koscielny, etc etc. With a few younger talent guys coming through.

The talent is there - it's undeniable.

Getting the best out of that talent is another question. The change of formation may be the catalyst - it really might.

Hanging on to what we have is a big part of our season and I think AW knows this and is prepared to gamble on it.

We have a good starting XI but the depth is not there. After Xhaka and Ramsey we're very light in midfield. I cant believe we're going into another season relying on Francis Coquelin. Elneny is not trusted, and Wilshere can hardly be expected to be an option there either.

L'prof

Hyzepher wrote: »

Sometimes I think Arsenal supporters are overly critical of the team.

Have an unbiased look at our squad, as it stands, and you can't help but see it as a strong squad - Sanchez, Ozil, Lacazette, Giroud, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Walcott, Ramsey, Cech, Mustafi, Koscielny, etc etc. With a few younger talent guys coming through.

The talent is there - it's undeniable.

Getting the best out of that talent is another question. The change of formation may be the catalyst - it really might.

Hanging on to what we have is a big part of our season and I think AW knows this and is prepared to gamble on it.

They've added Kolašinac and Lacazette to a team that finished 18 points off top last season. It's just not good enough to have any hope of challenging bar something like 2 seasons ago happening when Leicester won the league. I do think they can compete in Europe and finish top 4 though, I definitely don't think that it has to be either/or

Hyzepher

I think the formation earlier in the year has to account for a fair few of those 18 points - our setup earlier just didn't play to our strengths and also gave the opposition too much of an advantage.

Another CB is probably more crucial then a midfielder if we are only getting one more in. Although we could do with a replacement for Cazorla to boost creativity.

kellso81

Hyzepher wrote: »

Another CB is probably more crucial then a midfielder if we are only getting one more in. Although we could do with a replacement for Cazorla to boost creativity.

We have 6 CBs, I think that's one position we're well covered in.

the untitled user

L'prof wrote: »

They've added Kolašinac and Lacazette to a team that finished 18 points off top last season. It's just not good enough to have any hope of challenging bar something like 2 seasons ago happening when Leicester won the league.

We've added a 30 goal a season striker to the squad (finally) and a defender who made the Bundesliga team of the year. That's a hell of a lot better than in previous seasons and a lot better than some of those around us.

Hyzepher wrote: »

Another CB is probably more crucial then a midfielder if we are only getting one more in. Although we could do with a replacement for Cazorla to boost creativity.

You're reading the situation wrong. Everyone looks at the goals shipped but the never the reasons why. But the simple fact is Arsenal moved to 3-4-2-1 is precisely because the midfield were struggling to protect the defence and an extra body was required to plug the gaps.

Xhaka just doesn't cut it, he lacks mobility, Ramsey is too much of a roamer, Coquelin and Elneny are both too limited on the ball. None of them come close to the job Cazorla does of offering an outlet to defenders under pressure. A recruitment for the centre of the midfield has been the highest priority all window!

wandatowell

the untitled user wrote: »

You're reading the situation wrong. Everyone looks at the goals shipped but the never the reasons why. But the simple fact is Arsenal moved to 3-4-2-1 is precisely because the midfield were struggling to protect the defence and an extra body was required to plug the gaps.

I read somewhere that there were just as many chances/shots against us after we switched formation than beforehand. The difference was Cech had a much better save percentage. I'm pretty sure I read that on this thread.

On a side note I noticed the formation change allows us to get more bodies into the box on the counter. We often had 3 or 4 players flooding the box especially towards the end of games when our passing game tired teams out.

CatInABox

wandatowell wrote: »

I read somewhere that there were just as many chances/shots against us after we switched formation than beforehand. The difference was Cech had a much better save percentage. I'm pretty sure I read that on this thread.

I wonder if this may be a case where the stats don't tell the whole story. Did Cech just get a lot better suddenly, or did the change in formation result in teams not being able to get as many clear cut shots on goals, giving Cech easier saves to make?

batistuta9

CatInABox wrote: »

I wonder if this may be a case where the stats don't tell the whole story. Did Cech just get a lot better suddenly, or did the change in formation result in teams not being able to get as many clear cut shots on goals, giving Cech easier saves to make?

They actually got better chances, cech & ospina saving at unrealistic levels.

7amkickoff is good for the stats on arsenal

http://news.arseblog.com/2017/06/arsenals-back-three-myth-busted-by-the-numbers/

wandatowell

CatInABox wrote: »

I wonder if this may be a case where the stats don't tell the whole story. Did Cech just get a lot better suddenly, or did the change in formation result in teams not being able to get as many clear cut shots on goals, giving Cech easier saves to make?

Depends on if you're a glass half full/half empty kinda person. Though I do remember a couple of times Cech making saves that I genuinely didn't expect him too, so that's in my mind to I guess.

wandatowell

batistuta9 wrote: »

They actually got better chances, cech & ospina saving at unrealistic levels.

Arseblog! I should have known.

batistuta9

wandatowell wrote: »

Arseblog! I should have known.

That guy has his own site too, he's not positive on the upcoming season

http://7amkickoff.com/index.php/2017/07/31/arsenal-win-the-emirates-cup-amid-familiar-failings-but-its-only-preseason/

KaiserGunner

L'equipe are reporting that Barcelona are now in for Lemar. If it's true that they are interested, then that will be another player that got away.

Jmac24128

i think it may be time to shown some confidence and respect to wenger, if he is holding sanchez to the last year of his contract for the greater good of the team and not worrying about the finances for once. the team is stronger and should be confident after the fa cup win over chelsea, meaning we can beat anyone on our day. i do agree we need a center midfield for the lack of carzola who is the best i have seen at taking a ball no matter how many are around him, you dont just find a carzola though and i cant think of any midfielder we can get that is better then what we have is the problem.

overall getting lacazette while holding onto sanchez, giroud and ozil has been great business. will hold my judgement on kolasinac cause i havent seen enough of him but hear great things. so over all be confident. for once wenger is doing what he should

CatInABox

Jmac24128 wrote: »

i think it may be time to shown sum confidence and respect to wenger

Well, in fairness, I think everyone can agree that he's pretty amazing at Math.

CatInABox

CatInABox wrote: »

Well, in fairness, I think everyone can agree that he's pretty amazing at Math.

Indeed. He knows that £40,000,001 is bigger than £40,000,000.

Arne_Saknussem

Basil3 wrote: »

Indeed. He knows that £40,000,001 is bigger than £40,000,000.

Don't understand the stick Wenger gets for this. Suarez had a clause in his contract for £40m, Liverpool illegally refused the offer, did people expect him to bid £50m? It needed Suarez to kick up a stink to respect the clause.

Bayern bid €1 above Gotze's clause when they took him from Dortmund for example.

Royale with Cheese

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Don't understand the stick Wenger gets for this. Suarez had a clause in his contract for £40m, Liverpool illegally refused the offer, did people expect him to bid £50m? It needed Suarez to kick up a stink to respect the clause.

Bayern bid €1 above Gotze's clause when they took him from Dortmund for example.

It was a ploy by Liverpool to detract attention and keep hold of their player, and it worked. Didn't they come out after he left and admit there was some kind of a clause there that they more or less ignored? You know Arsenal in that situation would have bent over and taken the money... and not spend it.

Arne_Saknussem

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

It was a ploy by Liverpool to detract attention and keep hold of their player, and it worked. Didn't they come out after he left and admit there was some kind of a clause there that they more or less ignored? You know Arsenal in that situation would have bent over and taken the money... and not spend it.

Yeah John Henry's admitted it multiple times, Gerrard too and he spoke about having to convince Suarez to stay for one more year then leave for a bigger club.

Henry: "Luis Suarez is the top scorer in the English Premier League, which is arguably the top soccer league in the world. He had a buyout clause of £40m. Arsenal, one of our prime rivals, offered £40m plus £1. What we've found … is that contracts don't seem to mean a lot in England – actually, in world football."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/mar/02/liverpool-john-henry-luis-suarez-clause

the untitled user

wandatowell wrote: »

I read somewhere that there were just as many chances/shots against us after we switched formation than beforehand. The difference was Cech had a much better save percentage. I'm pretty sure I read that on this thread.

batistuta9 wrote: »

They actually got better chances, cech & ospina saving at unrealistic levels.

But I was talking about Arsenal with Cazorla vs. Arsenal without. With all due respect to 7am, I like his stuff usually but that article was lazy. He missed a big part of the story by not comparing the 4-2-3-1 stats with and without Cazorla.

The seven EPL games Cazorla started for Arsenal last season tell an entirely different story about the 4-2-3-1, we won 6 out of 7 games, drawing the other. More importantly we only shipped 5 goals and while scoring 16.

Extrapolated over the course of the season that would have been 87 goals scored and 27 conceded. Hypothetically speaking, had Arsenal maintained that form it would have seen them finish comfortably above Chelsea and potentially pushing the 100 point barrier. But then Cazorla got injured so we'll never know

Still, it's as good an argument as any as to why we need another ball playing midfielder over any other position. As 7am rightly points out, we still concede far too many shots with the 3-4-2-1 and I don't think it'll be long before other teams nullify it by adopting a similar shape.

Arne_Saknussem

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Don't understand the stick Wenger gets for this. Suarez had a clause in his contract for £40m, Liverpool illegally refused the offer, did people expect him to bid £50m? It needed Suarez to kick up a stink to respect the clause.

Bayern bid €1 above Gotze's clause when they took him from Dortmund for example.

It was just a joke....

the untitled user

the untitled user wrote: »

But I was talking about Arsenal with Cazorla vs. Arsenal without. With all due respect to 7am, I like his stuff usually but that article was lazy. He missed a big part of the story by not comparing the 4-2-3-1 stats with and without Cazorla.

The seven EPL games Cazorla started for Arsenal last season tell an entirely different story about the 4-2-3-1, we won 6 out of 7 games, drawing the other. More importantly we only shipped 5 goals and while scoring 16.

Extrapolated over the course of the season that would have been 87 goals scored and 27 conceded. Hypothetically speaking, had Arsenal maintained that form it would have seen them finish comfortably above Chelsea and potentially pushing the 100 point barrier. But then Cazorla got injured so we'll never know

Still, it's as good an argument as any as to why we need another ball playing midfielder over any other position. As 7am rightly points out, we still concede far too many shots with the 3-4-2-1 and I don't think it'll be long before other teams nullify it by adopting a similar shape.

Too small a sample size to read anything from.

Cazorla is/was a great player, but to me he's also a symbol of the lightweight midfield that didn't work for us for so long.

beer enigma

Call me a mad man (thanks Kaiser) but I think where we are really lacking is the fact that we haven't had a strong captain for years. I know I hark back to the days of Adams and Vieira, but I'd be damned sure that even with last years squad they would have got more out of them. From a few autobiographies that I've read, players saying they're were literally afraid of underperforming because of the roasting they'd get from the skipper.

I just don't see that in the team today.

TimeToShine

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Don't understand the stick Wenger gets for this. Suarez had a clause in his contract for £40m, Liverpool illegally refused the offer, did people expect him to bid £50m? It needed Suarez to kick up a stink to respect the clause.

Bayern bid €1 above Gotze's clause when they took him from Dortmund for example.

I think it was down to it being seen as an insulting offer to a club with the pride and history that Liverpool has. I'm inclined to believe they would have been a lot more cooperative if we bid 45 or 50 million. The difference could have swung things in our favour and we all know how much of a weapon Suarez would have been if we'd signed him.

L'prof

TimeToShine wrote: »

I think it was down to it being seen as an insulting offer to a club with the pride and history that Liverpool has. I'm inclined to believe they would have been a lot more cooperative if we bid 45 or 50 million. The difference could have swung things in our favour and we all know how much of a weapon Suarez would have been if we'd signed him.

I can't believe people are still talking about this. Every bloody transfer window. It's boring. I don't care any more that they didn't accept the bid, I don't care any more what the bid was and I really don't care anymore who was right and who was wrong

tayto lover

L'prof wrote: »

I can't believe people are still talking about this. Every bloody transfer window

A Back to the Future kind of thing

L'prof

tayto lover wrote: »

A Back to the Future kind of thing

More like one of those awful rehashes of Groundhog Day

the untitled user

Basil3 wrote: »

Too small a sample size to read anything from.

Cazorla is/was a great player, but to me he's also a symbol of the lightweight midfield that didn't work for us for so long.

The same pattern exists since 2014/2015, coinciding with the period when Cazorla started playing in central midfield for us. Lightweight he may be, but Arsenal's win ratio with him starting in the centre certainly is not.

the untitled user

the untitled user wrote: »

The same pattern exists since 2014/2015, coinciding with the period when Cazorla started playing in central midfield for us. Lightweight he may be, but Arsenal's win ratio with him starting in the centre certainly is not.

That's true. You could also find stats on how much having Ramsey in the team influences our win percentage, even when he's having a rubbish season.

The point is, that Cazorla has hardly played for us for 2 seasons. He will never be the player he was, and it's very hard to see a place for him in our current formation....unless we go back to having someone like Ramsey or Ozil on the flank to assist him with an extra outlet, which was always a key to Caz getting the ball forward. He hasn't offered any goal threat for years, either. His last goal from open play in the league was probably 3 years ago.

Anyway, roll on 2pm.

L'prof

So no Hazard, Bakayoko and possibly Pedro. Matic sold. Slight advantage to Arsenal even if Sanchez doesn't feature?

https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/894166615494930433

Sanchez, Özil, Kos and Ramsey not involved.

Will be interesting.

Alfred Borden

Our four best players not even in the squad

L'prof

Chelsea win

Ol' Donie

Been telling myself all week I'm not going to bother with this silly friendly.

Just though I'd check the line ups, out of curiosity.

Now I've a knot in my stomach, really hope we best these. (Although I'll say right now, as long as the title doesn't go to Manchester this season, I'll be okay-ish).

Really want to see this Kolasinic (sp?) though.

tayto lover

I know it's a nothing game and Wenger has selected a nothing team which is probably the way to go for this.
I'd prefer to see our best team out against Leicester next friday and hopefully we get off to a good start in the league for a change.

L'prof

tayto lover wrote: »

I know it's a nothing game and Wenger has selected a nothing team which is probably the way to go for this.
I'd prefer to see our best team out against Leicester next friday and hopefully we get off to a good start in the league for a change.

Friday definitely more important but still disappointed with the lineup