Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017 *Warnings see OP-updated 09/05/17*

emmetlego

wonga77 wrote: »

Emirates is deserted

I don't blame them after the disaster of getting in!!!

Skylinehead

wonga77 wrote: »

Emirates is deserted

It is 11pm tbf, on a Thursday.

greendom

emmetlego wrote: »

I don't blame them after the disaster of getting in!!!

You can imagine lots of checking the smartphones to check the last train home

KaiserGunner

I enjoyed that second half, much better than the first. I do think that it's only a matter of time when Arsenal go back to a traditional back 4 and have that extra man in midfield. I like the three at the back against the better sides, but I think it's a waste against so called "inferior" opposition.

the untitled user

Two words. Maitland-Niles.

That second half was the most assured performance from a midfielder in an Arsenal shirt in I don't know how long. The kid didn't put a foot wrong all night, but switching him to the midfield made everything click. He tracked runs, he filled in the spaces that we left open in the first half and he moved the ball forward with composure. MOTM by a fudging country mile.

Wenger needs to give serious consideration to playing him there on Sunday.

tayto lover

KaiserGunner wrote: »

I enjoyed that second half, much better than the first. I do think that it's only a matter of time when Arsenal go back to a traditional back 4 and have that extra man in midfield. I like the three at the back against the better sides, but I think it's a waste against so called "inferior" opposition.

Especially when they can't keep their line straight and when they push up too far especially with the very slow Mert in the center like in the first half.

emergingstar

That's the end of the back 3 tonight I think

Sundays team

Bellerin. Kos. Mustafi. Kosalnic
Mo
Xhaka. Ramsey.
Ozil. Laca. Sanchez.

Skylinehead

the untitled user wrote: »

Two words. Maitland-Niles.

That second half was the most assured performance from a midfielder in an Arsenal shirt in I don't know how long. The kid didn't put a foot wrong all night, but switching him to the midfield made everything click. He tracked runs, he filled in the spaces that we left open in the first half and he moved the ball forward with composure. MOTM by a fudging country mile.

Wenger needs to give serious consideration to playing him there on Sunday.

I was going to say him moving into central midfield changed the game entirely on its head. Having one CM was bonkers in the first place but the kid was great in the second half.

the untitled user

Skylinehead wrote: »

I was going to say him moving into central midfield changed the game entirely on its head. Having one CM was bonkers in the first place but the kid was great in the second half.

And the really weird thing is I've not found a single report on the match tonight that mentions him beyond his one on one miss. One report even credited Wilshere's introduction for Arsenal's recovery!

Honestly, do English hacks bother to watch the matches any more? They probably spent their evening on twitter and just summarize whatever naff 1970s cliches the commentators spewed out.

SteM

Basil3 wrote: »

Chelsea on Sunday more important than this match.

Why? So you can scrap for top 4 at the end of the season, qualify for next seasons CL which you can get knocked out of in the quarter finals? What's the point of that? Arsenal are stuck in a massive rut, maybe winning the EL will pull them out of it. They need something to that's for sure.

CatInABox

SteM wrote: »

Why? So you can scrap for top 4 at the end of the season, qualify for next seasons CL which you can get knocked out of in the quarter finals? What's the point of that? Arsenal are stuck in a massive rut, maybe winning the EL will pull them out of it. They need something to that's for sure.

Well, winning the league would pull us out of a rut better.

jonneymendoza

Morning. What a game. I so fancied cologne to get a draw at least!

jonneymendoza

Morning. What a game. I so fancied cologne to get a draw at least!

jonneymendoza

sonic85 wrote: »

KaiserGunner wrote: »

It was his choice though I think? When he wasn't in the England squad in Sep '16 he went to Bournemouth for more first team opportunities. I think Arsenal were happy for him to stay, but he wanted to go on loan.

Is that how it went? Honestly I can't remember!

Doesn't really matter I'd always have him in or around the first team when he's fit and healthy. Hasn't hit the heights I thought he would when he first broke through but I still have a lot of time for him. I'd rate him above a lot of our midfield options at the minute anyway

Put it this way Ramsey was and still is a poor mans version of wilshere. It was Wilshere that was far superior then him up until he got injured

jonneymendoza

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Put it this way Ramsey was and still is a poor mans version of wilshere. It was Wilshere that was far superior then him up until he got injured

Totally different players. Wilshere is better in central midfield bringing the ball forward. Ramsey better further up the pitch.

SteM

CatInABox wrote: »

Well, winning the league would pull us out of a rut better.

Arsenal are as far off winning the league than they are the Champions League though.

SteM

SteM wrote: »

Arsenal are as far off winning the league than they are the Champions League though.

Sacrificing a match against Chelsea so we can field a better team in the Europa this early in the season would be crazy.

Quazzie

SteM wrote: »

Why? So you can scrap for top 4 at the end of the season, qualify for next seasons CL which you can get knocked out of in the quarter finals? What's the point of that? Arsenal are stuck in a massive rut, maybe winning the EL will pull them out of it. They need something to that's for sure.

Europa league is a nothing cup. Equivalent to the charity shield or the League cup. I'd place 4th in the league above winning the Europa league. It's a nice little distraction, but nothing more. Last night's attendance shows most Arsenal fans feel the same

SteM

Basil3 wrote: »

Sacrificing a match against Chelsea so we can field a better team in the Europa this early in the season would be crazy.

Who said you have to sacrifice one the other? It was the 5th match of the season, no need to rest players at this point surely.

What makes Arsenal fans think their club is above the Europa League? The club have done nothing to suggest that for years now.

Lets be honest here. For the top teams there are 4 trophies to play for at the start of the season. People discounted the Europa League as a mickey mouse cup, assume they say the same about the League Cup. That leaves 2 trophies to play for. The FA Cup is up in the air, one bad match and you're out. The Premier League is out of Arsenal's grasp at the moment. So why not go for the EL? It's a way back into the Champions League, it's a European trophy you've never won and you are competing against teams you are capable of beating which is not the case season after season in the Champions League.

SteM

Quazzie wrote: »

Europa league is a nothing cup. Equivalent to the charity shield or the League cup. I'd place 4th in the league above winning the Europa league. It's a nice little distraction, but nothing more. Last night's attendance shows most Arsenal fans feel the same

Because you're club is so successful domestically that it can pick and chooses the trophies it competes for. What a narrow minded view.

Quazzie

SteM wrote: »

Because you're club is so successful domestically that it can pick and chooses the trophies it competes for. What a narrow minded view.

I wouldn't class winning the Europa league as a measure of success tho. UEFA know the same, and that's why they gave a Champions league place for the winner to entice teams to take it seriously. I'd say for 75-90% of Arsenal fans who watched last nights game it's the first Europa league game they've watched in the last 5 years or more. I know personally I haven't watched one in maybe 10 years +. It's a cup that shows up on no one's radar, and no one really gives a fúck about. Good chance to blood some new talent and give some fringe players some game time, but that's it. If we somehow end up in the quarters/semis then I'm sure we'll start to pay attention but at the moment it'd be just as interested in watching the u23's or the reserves play.

SteM

Quazzie wrote: »

I wouldn't class winning the Europa league as a measure of success tho. UEFA know the same, and that's why they gave a Champions league place for the winner to entice teams to take it seriously.

But you've already said that you would prefer to come 4th than win the EL. They both have the same outcome but one has a trophy at the end of it too. Why is 4th seen as a measure of success but winning a cup and gaining access to the the CL not a measure of success? How can winning a trophy for the tournamet you have entered not be seen some measure of success? You saw what happened last season when you aim for 4th, teams fall short sometimes. Happened to United and Arsenal last season. Top 4 is getting tougher and tougher every season. Liverpool, Chelsea, United, City Spurs and Arsenal are all contenders. They can't all make top 4.

Quazzie wrote: »

I'd say for 75-90% of Arsenal fans who watched last nights game it's the first Europa league game they've watched in the last 5 years or more. I know personally I haven't watched one in maybe 10 years +.

It's a cup that shows up on no one's radar, and no one really gives a fúck about. Good chance to blood some new talent and give some fringe players some game time, but that's it. If we somehow end up in the quarters/semis then I'm sure we'll start to pay attention but at the moment it'd be just as interested in watching the u23's or the reserves play.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? Why would Arsenal fans watch it in the past? Your club has never been in it so why would you watch it.

Anyway, you answered the question 'why aren't the fans watching', that wasn't my original question though.

TimeToShine

To be honest if we don't get to at least the semi if not win the EL even with all of the player resting it will mean that our squad depth is next to useless. We should be able to win it without exerting ourselves and still challenge for 4th.

KaiserGunner

SteM wrote: »

Who said you have to sacrifice one the other? It was the 5th match of the season, no need to rest players at this point surely.

What makes Arsenal fans think their club is above the Europa League? The club have done nothing to suggest that for years now.

Lets be honest here. For the top teams there are 4 trophies to play for at the start of the season. People discounted the Europa League as a mickey mouse cup, assume they say the same about the League Cup. That leaves 2 trophies to play for. The FA Cup is up in the air, one bad match and you're out. The Premier League is out of Arsenal's grasp at the moment. So why not go for the EL? It's a way back into the Champions League, it's a European trophy you've never won and you are competing against teams you are capable of beating which is not the case season after season in the Champions League.

Arsenal have won the inter-cities fairs cup in 1970 which was eventually replaced by the UEFA cup shortly after. So in effect Arsenal have won the competition before under a different name.

The Europa League (UEFA cup) has been devalued for years now. There are too many teams competing in the champions league, there are also way too many teams in the Europa League and in February, eight teams that have failed in their champions league campaigns get a second chance in the Europa League. All these factors seriously devalue the competition.

In both the Champions League and the Europa League the group stages are a snooze fest for the majority of it.

allinthehead

Quazzie wrote: »

Europa league is a nothing cup. Equivalent to the charity shield or the League cup. I'd place 4th in the league above winning the Europa league. It's a nice little distraction, but nothing more. Last night's attendance shows most Arsenal fans feel the same

Seriously 4th place over winning a competition?. I wouldn't trade last seasons Fa cup for 4th and i'd rather finish 5th/6th and win the EL. Who would look back on a career and remember a 4th place finish? Would you as a fan look back on this season with fondness if we finished 4th? I know i would if we won the EL.
Football is all about winning things, or at least it used to be. I think once out of the group stage we should go all out to win it.

SteM

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Arsenal have won the inter-cities fairs cup in 1970 which was eventually replaced by the UEFA cup shortly after. So in effect Arsenal have won the competition before under a different name.

Sorry, I'm not up on the inter-cities fairs cup history. Bit before my time but fair enough.

Awesomeness

Maitland niles was very good when he switched to the middle. Jack also looked good when he came on.

We could use both of these guys going forward because I thought our starting mid of Iwobi and Elneny were poison

Quazzie

SteM wrote: »

Why is 4th seen as a measure of success but winning a cup and gaining access to the the CL not a measure of success?

Because it is much harder to finish 4th than win the Europa League. Finishing 4th is a definite sign of a more successful season as it is a bigger accomplishment.

SteM

Quazzie wrote: »

Because it is much harder to finish 4th than win the Europa League. Finishing 4th is a definite sign of a more successful season as it is a bigger accomplishment.

Geez, it's no wonder your club is in the state it's in.

Good luck for the coming season.

the untitled user

Awesomeness wrote: »

I thought our starting mid of Iwobi and Elneny were poison

You mean our starting midfield of just Elneny? Last night we effectively played 3 - 2 - 5 in the first half, with Sanchez regularly coming deeper than both Iwobi and Bellerin! Maitland-Niles and Elneny were the only ones who actually were trying to play their respective positions correctly.

I actually think Elneny did well in that first half all things considered, the damage could have been a lot worse if it weren't for him and a few good recoveries from Rob Holding.

GavRedKing

Quazzie wrote: »

Because it is much harder to finish 4th than win the Europa League. Finishing 4th is a definite sign of a more successful season as it is a bigger accomplishment.

Until the start handing out trophies for finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th, the EL is a far more succesful way to get to the CL and any big team in the EL should be aiming to win it as well as pushing on in the domestic competition.

If club is willing to throw away trophy opportunities to finish in the top 4 then we might as well pack it all in and just play 38 league games.

IMO the club football hierachy goes

1) Win CL (if applicable)
2) Win Domestic league
3) Win EL (if applicable)
4) Finish inside the CL places
5) Domestic Cups

The above should ring through for any big club across Europe with ambitions of being succesful for some reason the English mindset is that its a burden but if the K/O rounds are managed correctly, a club the size of Arsenal should win the competition.

Chelsea did, Liverpool nearly did, Utd did last season, Fulham nearly did a few years back, if you feel its beneath Arsenal so be it but no club should throw away a serious chance of silverware and celebrations to finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th and win nothing but the opportunity to be dumped out of the CL.

KaiserGunner

GavRedKing wrote: »

Until the start handing out trophies for finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th, the EL is a far more succesful way to get to the CL and any big team in the EL should be aiming to win it as well as pushing on in the domestic competition.

If club is willing to throw away trophy opportunities to finish in the top 4 then we might as well pack it all in and just play 38 league games.

IMO the club football hierachy goes

1) Win CL (if applicable)
2) Win Domestic league
3) Win EL (if applicable)
4) Finish inside the CL places
5) Domestic Cups

The above should ring through for any big club across Europe with ambitions of being succesful for some reason the English mindset is that its a burden but if the K/O rounds are managed correctly, a club the size of Arsenal should win the competition.

Chelsea did, Liverpool nearly did, Utd did last season, Fulham nearly did a few years back, if you feel its beneath Arsenal so be it but no club should throw away a serious chance of silverware and celebrations to finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th and win nothing but the opportunity to be dumped out of the CL.

Why do you have the domestic cups below finishing inside the cl places? As you say it's all about winning silverware and you don't get that for finishing 2nd,3rd or 4th.

keano_afc

Lets not get carried away with Maitland-Niles. Starting him against Chelsea would be suicide, Kante would eat him.

GavRedKing

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Why do you have the domestic cups below finishing inside the cl places? As you say it's all about winning silverware and you don't get that for finishing 2nd,3rd or 4th.

I dont rate the domestic cups, you'll get into the EL for winning them anyway so they should be bottom of the priority list, IMO.

Just look at the squads that teams usually put out in the early rounds, most of the big teams dont play full strength sides until round 6 or later.

If the EL is the 3rd biggest prize in football and you cant win the CL, it becomes the second biggest prize of your season, adjust upwards for the rest. :pac:

Skylinehead

keano_afc wrote: »

Lets not get carried away with Maitland-Niles. Starting him against Chelsea would be suicide, Kante would eat him.

Ah I don't think anyones saying that!

I'd go with Xhaka-Elneny in a 4-2-3-1. Not very creative but a solid base, and there should be enough ahead of them in attack

---

Cech
Bellerin-Mustafi-Kos-Kola
----Xhaka--Elneny

---

Welbeck?--Ozil--Sanchez

---

Lacazette

---

Not sure on Welbeck but he'll probably start after his good showing last week.

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

Ah I don't think anyones saying that!

I'd go with Xhaka-Elneny in a 4-2-3-1. Not very creative but a solid base, and there should be enough ahead of them in attack

---

Cech
Bellerin-Mustafi-Kos-Kola
----Xhaka--Elneny

---

Welbeck?--Ozil--Sanchez

---

Lacazette

---

Not sure on Welbeck but he'll probably start after his good showing last week.

Be shocked if it's Elneny ahead of Ramsey after he just played Elneny and rested Ramsey.

gitzy16v

One thing for sure is that we wont get away with a first half like last night against Chelsea...No matter whos playing...Jesus we were awful until Kolasinac came on and we went to a back 4.

gandalf

Can't believe people rank finishing fourth over winning silverware specifically the EL!

Skylinehead

Basil3 wrote: »

Be shocked if it's Elneny ahead of Ramsey after he just played Elneny and rested Ramsey.

Yeah I expect the same, just what I'd prefer. Or Ramsey on the right maybe?

keano_afc

Skylinehead wrote: »

Ah I don't think anyones saying that!

I'd go with Xhaka-Elneny in a 4-2-3-1. Not very creative but a solid base, and there should be enough ahead of them in attack

---

Cech
Bellerin-Mustafi-Kos-Kola
----Xhaka--Elneny

---

Welbeck?--Ozil--Sanchez

---

Lacazette

---

Not sure on Welbeck but he'll probably start after his good showing last week.

There was a post a couple of pages back saying he should keep his place against Chelsea.

emmetlego

I wouldn't be surprised if he went to a back 3 again for the Chelsea game.

the untitled user

keano_afc wrote: »

There was a post a couple of pages back saying he should keep his place against Chelsea.

I was saying he should be considered for the squad, not that he should be nailed on starter.

Though in fairness, his defensive positioning in midfield in the second half was vastly superior to what we've seen this season from all of Ramsey, Xhaka and Coquelin. Whether he can cope with the urgency of the PL yet is another question, but I'd be tempted to try and blood him into the starting 11 sooner rather than later. If our midfield ends up being overrun again like it was at Pool it may be worth giving him a bit of game time on Sunday to see if he can have an impact.

greendom

emmetlego wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if he went to a back 3 again for the Chelsea game.

It worked pretty well against them in the cup final and again in the Community Shield

tayto lover

the untitled user wrote: »

I was saying he should be considered for the squad, not that he should be nailed on starter.

Though in fairness, his defensive positioning in midfield in the second half was vastly superior to what we've seen this season from all of Ramsey, Xhaka and Coquelin. Whether he can cope with the urgency of the PL yet is another question, but I'd be tempted to try and blood him into the starting 11 sooner rather than later. If our midfield ends up being overrun again like it was at Pool it may be worth giving him a bit of game time on Sunday to see if he can have an impact.

He's been on the bench previously but not used.
There's not a chance he'll start against Chelsea.
He could be given run outs against lesser teams when we're well ahead in future games but one swallow and all that ...

the untitled user

tayto lover wrote: »

He could be given run outs against lesser teams when we're well ahead in future games but one swallow and all that ...

Still, one swallow could be better than all that space...

tayto lover

the untitled user wrote: »

Still, one swallow could be better than all that space...

Not a chance Wenger will play him in the big games. He's never done that.

Quazzie

tayto lover wrote: »

Not a chance Wenger will play him in the big games. He's never done that.

Sanogo and Bayern springs to mind

tayto lover

Quazzie wrote: »

Sanogo and Bayern springs to mind

Wenger said that was a necessity as he had nobody else to choose from on that occasion (madness that he hadn't). He has plenty for DM with Xhaka, Elneny, Coq, Ramsey and Wilshere all fit so he's hardly going to put in a rookie with those available.

Quazzie

tayto lover wrote: »

Wenger said that was a necessity as he had nobody else to choose from on that occasion (madness that he hadn't). He has plenty for DM with Xhaka, Elneny, Coq, Ramsey and Wilshere all fit so he's hardly going to put in a rookie with those available.

Giroud was on the bench that night.

As was Podolski

LINK

tayto lover

Quazzie wrote: »

Giroud was on the bench that night.

As was Podolski

LINK

Well that's just mad from Wenger if they were fit. My recollection must be way off too.