Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017 *Warnings see OP-updated 09/05/17*

jonneymendoza

[font=Roboto, sans-serif]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxNGQiAX96c this is interesting[/font]

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

United are self-sustaining, Chelsea are self-sustaining, Bayern are self-sustaining, what's the difference?

Also the Champions League money means a lot less than it did a few years ago, PL rights swamp the CL money now.

There's a big difference between how Arsenal and Chelsea are run. Dropping out of the top 4 would have a bigger impact on Arsenal than Chelsea. Chelsea have had some decent asset sales recently to help balance things, but they already had a Championship winning side. Arsenal requires further investment to improve the team, and they can't/won't/don't just turn to Kroenke and ask for it.

I'm not saying I agree with it. It is what it is.

jonneymendoza

Basil3 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

United are self-sustaining, Chelsea are self-sustaining, Bayern are self-sustaining, what's the difference?

Also the Champions League money means a lot less than it did a few years ago, PL rights swamp the CL money now.

There's a big difference between how Arsenal and Chelsea are run.  Dropping out of the top 4 would have a bigger impact on Arsenal than Chelsea.  Chelsea have had some decent asset sales recently to help balance things, but they already had a Championship winning side.  Arsenal requires further investment to improve the team, and they can't/won't/don't just turn to Kroenke and ask for it.

I'm not saying I agree with it.  It is what it is.

how?

We get all our money from sponsorships and PL.

As someone noted here you dont get much playing in the CL

Basil3

Basil3 wrote: »

There's a big difference between how Arsenal and Chelsea are run. Dropping out of the top 4 would have a bigger impact on Arsenal than Chelsea. Chelsea have had some decent asset sales recently to help balance things, but they already had a Championship winning side. Arsenal requires further investment to improve the team, and they can't/won't/don't just turn to Kroenke and ask for it.

I'm not saying I agree with it. It is what it is.

Imagine having assets to sell.

Arsenal sign players with no sell-on value. We have nothing. There's a handful of players worth anything whatsoever. Wasted money over the summer on players we might get half the money back for if we're lucky.

Again I'll make this point. United won leagues with players who weren't worth a whole lot but they never put a toe out of line. Chelsea are winning the league with Victor Moses as a mainstay.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Imagine having assets to sell.

Arsenal sign players with no sell-on value. We have nothing. There's a handful of players worth anything whatsoever. Wasted money over the summer on players we might get half the money back for if we're lucky.

Again I'll make this point. United won leagues with players who weren't worth a whole lot but they never put a toe out of line. Chelsea are winning the league with Victor Moses as a mainstay.

You're not telling me anything I don't know :P

hullaballoo

Deleted User wrote: »

Imagine having assets to sell.

Arsenal sign players with no sell-on value. We have nothing. There's a handful of players worth anything whatsoever. Wasted money over the summer on players we might get half the money back for if we're lucky.

Again I'll make this point. United won leagues with players who weren't worth a whole lot but they never put a toe out of line. Chelsea are winning the league with Victor Moses as a mainstay.

Arsenal have had a problem with not keeping on to some of their best assets in the past - the likes of RvP, Clichy and (sorry!) Cole - all of whom went on to play for league rivals and ended up as crucial players in league-winning seasons. The problem is the inability to reject a big cash offer.

gandalf

ronjo wrote: »

If Wenger announced today that he was stepping down at the end of the season do people think it would have

1. Positive effect on season
2. Negative effect on season
3. Not really make a difference

It will have either a negative effect or no effect.

If that does occur I think it would be more prudent for him to stand down with immediate effect rather than drag things out and either put a caretaker in place or appoint his successor immediately if they are available.

As regards the discussion on the team. IMHO the players we have are good enough to win the league and should have been good enough to match Bayern last night. Bayern are in decline from the team they were, the non existent challenge that we put up to them last night flattered them. If we attacked them with conviction then I believe there was a result for the taking. Instead we had absolutely no tactics at all, no idea on what to do when we went behind, got gifted a goal from a poor penalty by Sanchez and then had 15 minutes of semi decent play when Bayern began to doubt themselves until the onslaught in the second half when they capitulated. This has been the case for years.

I don't know what Wengers playing philosophy is any more, there doesn't seem to be any. Most other managers are able to mould their team for specific matches, Wenger doesn't seem to be able to do this and has only done it in a limited fashion in recent times. He is out of touch and I really do not see the desire in him to really win things. Given the wages that he and the players are on I literally expect them to bleed for the club and to make our opposition to bleed to beat us. Last night most of our players were doing impressions of ****ing seagulls and Bayern ran through us. That apathetic attitude is coming from the top and I do believe that a younger hungrier talented manager will make a difference to the crop of players we have with an immediate effect.

Of course for this to happen we need a board that is proactive. We don't have that. We have a board who are conspicuous in their silence.

greendom

s

hullaballoo wrote: »

Arsenal have had a problem with not keeping on to some of their best assets in the past - the likes of RvP, Clichy and (sorry!) Cole - all of whom went on to play for league rivals and ended up as crucial players in league-winning seasons. The problem is the inability to reject a big cash offer.

That was a problem during the stadium rebuild when the club was in a position where it was difficult to reject big money transfers, especially when the players were guaranteed a much higher salary at the new club.

Notice how long ago the transfers you mention happened. It's not a real problem anymore. The problem is Arsene's time is up and it seems he can't leave until he himself realises this.

Soups123

Here is how I would like to see it go from here.

I would like to see Arsene come out and say I am done and this will be my last season. Immediately the atmosphere and feeling around the club will turn from septic to emotional, we can all sit back and enjoy the last 10+ games of a great man, the players might buy into it and step up filling the stadium with high emotion and atmosphere , maybe pull in an FA Cup. This way we get to give him the respect and send off he deserves.

If he says nothing the season will stay septic until the very end and the chance supporters would like to have to give him the send off he truly deserves will pass

Mr.Micro

gandalf wrote: »

It will have either a negative effect or no effect.

If that does occur I think it would be more prudent for him to stand down with immediate effect rather than drag things out and either put a caretaker in place or appoint his successor immediately if they are available.

As regards the discussion on the team. IMHO the players we have are good enough to win the league and should have been good enough to match Bayern last night. Bayern are in decline from the team they were, the non existent challenge that we put up to them last night flattered them. If we attacked them with conviction then I believe there was a result for the taking. Instead we had absolutely no tactics at all, no idea on what to do when we went behind, got gifted a goal from a poor penalty by Sanchez and then had 15 minutes of semi decent play when Bayern began to doubt themselves until the onslaught in the second half when they capitulated. This has been the case for years.

I don't know what Wengers playing philosophy is any more, there doesn't seem to be any. Most other managers are able to mould their team for specific matches, Wenger doesn't seem to be able to do this and has only done it in a limited fashion in recent times. He is out of touch and I really do not see the desire in him to really win things. Given the wages that he and the players are on I literally expect them to bleed for the club and to make our opposition to bleed to beat us. Last night most of our players were doing impressions of ****ing seagulls and Bayern ran through us. That apathetic attitude is coming from the top and I do believe that a younger hungrier talented manager will make a difference to the crop of players we have with an immediate effect.

Of course for this to happen we need a board that is proactive. We don't have that. We have a board who are conspicuous in their silence.

Totally agree. The team we have, on paper at least is a strong team with some very good players and should have given Bayern a fight. It has to be the philosophy or lack of from Wenger. If he does not have it, why should the team care.

ronjo

Soups123 wrote: »

Here is how I would like to see it go from here.

I would like to see Arsene come out and say I am done and this will be my last season. Immediately the atmosphere and feeling around the club will turn from septic to emotional, we can all sit back and enjoy the last 10+ games of a great man, the players might buy into it and step up filling the stadium with high emotion and atmosphere , maybe pull in an FA Cup. This way we get to give him the respect and send off he deserves.

If he says nothing the season will stay septic until the very end and the chance supporters would like to have to give him the send off he truly deserves will pass

Thats my opinion aswell but based on the answers to me this morning (3 of them I think) others think it wont be like that.

wawaman

How can a team go to pieces when one player leaves the field? I remember a time when our captain went to prison and we still won the league

ronjo

ronjo wrote: »

Thats my opinion aswell but based on the answers to me this morning (3 of them I think) others think it wont be like that.

I just couldn't see it happening that way, because I think it would be a bit self-indulgent for Wenger.

grumpymunster

greendom wrote: »

s

That was a problem during the stadium rebuild when the club was in a position where it was difficult to reject big money transfers, especially when the players were guaranteed a much higher salary at the new club.

Notice how long ago the transfers you mention happened. It's not a real problem anymore. The problem is Arsene's time is up and it seems he can't leave until he himself realises this.

That is a fair point but also how many players in the Arsenal team would get a place in the Chelsea side for example - I would hazard a guess only Sanchez maybe with a huge kick up the backside Ozil but really he has not shown much this season (and I was gutted when he signed for you guys not us always been a big fan of his).

That is the sad point at the minute there are not that many players at Arsenal that will be really wanted by other sides. Rebuilding will be an issue too as there are very few really good players available for example pretty much every side needs a centre half - not that many around we are reduced to playing Cahill and Dave.

greendom

grumpymunster wrote: »

That is a fair point but also how many players in the Arsenal team would get a place in the Chelsea side for example - I would hazard a guess only Sanchez maybe with a huge kick up the backside Ozil but really he has not shown much this season (and I was gutted when he signed for you guys not us always been a big fan of his).

That is the sad point at the minute there are not that many players at Arsenal that will be really wanted by other sides. Rebuilding will be an issue too as there are very few really good players available for example pretty much every side needs a centre half - not that many around we are reduced to playing Cahill and Dave.

So the manager is awful and players aren't up to much. Team should be fighting relegation, surely ?

KaiserGunner

grumpymunster wrote: »

That is a fair point but also how many players in the Arsenal team would get a place in the Chelsea side for example - I would hazard a guess only Sanchez maybe with a huge kick up the backside Ozil but really he has not shown much this season (and I was gutted when he signed for you guys not us always been a big fan of his).

That is the sad point at the minute there are not that many players at Arsenal that will be really wanted by other sides. Rebuilding will be an issue too as there are very few really good players available for example pretty much every side needs a centre half - not that many around we are reduced to playing Cahill and Dave.

Talent wise there isn't a huge difference between the two squads imo. Tactics and team morale play massive parts in football. Chelsea were literally mid table last season with a similar squad to the one that is top now. Bringing in a top manager and tactician has worked wonders for Chelsea this season.

A new manager for Arsenal could do the same, there is a good enough squad there to compete, just needs fresh ideas and a couple of players here and there.

grumpymunster

greendom wrote: »

So the manager is awful and players aren't up to much. Team should be fighting relegation, surely ?

I don't remember saying either of them statements to be honest. Wenger is not awful (I actually quite like him he is at least steadfast and normally backs his team 100%) and any team surviving in the top 6 of the PL on a regular basis cannot be described as not up to much - so please do not try to twist my words it is not very civil.

My point was and is there are only perhaps 2 of the Arsenal players who may get into the Chelsea team you may disagree - thats fine but do not accuse me of something that I have not said.

Could a new manager beat them into shape yea of course that is possible but I happen to think it will take a little more than that. Chelsea went from being champions to chumps and now we are looking more like a proper team again, we have weak spots but I think last season was an anomaly most likely down to friction between Jose and the players.

CatInABox

Soups123 wrote: »

Here is how I would like to see it go from here.

I would like to see Arsene come out and say I am done and this will be my last season. Immediately the atmosphere and feeling around the club will turn from septic to emotional, we can all sit back and enjoy the last 10+ games of a great man, the players might buy into it and step up filling the stadium with high emotion and atmosphere , maybe pull in an FA Cup. This way we get to give him the respect and send off he deserves.

If he says nothing the season will stay septic until the very end and the chance supporters would like to have to give him the send off he truly deserves will pass

I'd love for this to happen as well, but with something added: the board are proactive, and they go out and secure a top manager before the end of the season. That'll give the new manager time to look over the player we have, so that he's ready to add the players he needs when the window opens.

It'll also give our players (namely Sanchez) a chance to say whether they'll stay with the new manager.

mansize

wawaman wrote: »

How can a team go to pieces when one player leaves the field? I remember a time when our captain went to prison and we still won the league

It's a very different league

wawaman

mansize wrote: »

It's a very different league

and a club with a very different mentality

keano_afc

wawaman wrote: »

How can a team go to pieces when one player leaves the field? I remember a time when our captain went to prison and we still won the league

That team had leaders, players to step in when Adams wasnt about. The class of 2017 are spineless. We have have 2/3 players in the squad who actually play like they give a shyte. Sanchez can only do so much, Kos got injured and Welbeck was on the bench. The fact that the captains armband was handed to Gibbs is an incredibly accurate picture of the rewarding of malaise that exists at this club.

tayto lover

There's posters on here who would try to convince you that you'd see better if you lost one eye.
Pathetic to believe that we would be better keeping Wenger. There's no proof either way but to want to continue threading water under Wenger is pathetic.
Where's the ambition?

greendom

grumpymunster wrote: »

I don't remember saying either of them statements to be honest. Wenger is not awful (I actually quite like him he is at least steadfast and normally backs his team 100%) and any team surviving in the top 6 of the PL on a regular basis cannot be described as not up to much - so please do not try to twist my words it is not very civil.

My point was and is there are only perhaps 2 of the Arsenal players who may get into the Chelsea team you may disagree - thats fine but do not accuse me of something that I have not said.

Could a new manager beat them into shape yea of course that is possible but I happen to think it will take a little more than that. Chelsea went from being champions to chumps and now we are looking more like a proper team again, we have weak spots but I think last season was an anomaly most likely down to friction between Jose and the players.

I really don't think I was word twisting just extrapolating. I certainly had no intention of being uncivil and apologies if you took it that way

I think that a lot of the Arsenal players are (like most at Chelsea last season) underperforming. The majority aren't performing at the level they could/should be.

It's unfortunate but things have gone stale at Arsenal. Get the right man in charge and a couple of clever transfers and this is a team that could be challenging for top honours once again.

grumpymunster

Yea I think stale might just be the right word.

No offence just can be easy to be jumped on at times :-) so I try to avoid that

mansize

In the eye of the blind the one eyed man is king.

Some like to see more than a zero sum game

mansize

If anyone looks at our team and Bayern's and thinks they are in any way comparable...

Bayern was a class apart

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

There's posters on here who would try to convince you that you'd see better if you lost one eye.
Pathetic to believe that we would be better keeping Wenger. There's no proof either way but to want to continue threading water under Wenger is pathetic.
Where's the ambition?

Plenty of people have ambition. Sacking a manager doesn't equal ambition, though.

tayto lover

Basil3 wrote: »

Plenty of people have ambition. Sacking a manager doesn't equal ambition, though.

It does when the manager is as bad as Wenger has become.
Last night he looked and spoke like an auld lad wandering about a nursing home. He has no longer anything to offer to this club.

Arne_Saknussem

So who trusts Gazidis & Silent Stan to pick the right man to replace Wenger?

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

It does when the manager is as bad as Wenger has become.
Last night he looked and spoke like an auld lad wandering about a nursing home. He has no longer anything to offer to this club.

Yeah, that's fair enough. Ambition is more about who is brought in than who is removed, though.

Sacking Wenger and bringing in Howe isn't really ambition to me.

ronjo

mansize wrote: »

If anyone looks at our team and Bayern's and thinks they are in any way comparable...

Bayern was a class apart

They should be comparable.
Bayern are the 4th richest club in the world. We are the 5th according to Forbes.

KaiserGunner

ronjo wrote: »

They should be comparable.
Bayern are the 4th richest club in the world. We are the 5th according to Forbes.

Exactly, the way some people go on they would swear the club were poor paupers. The club is set up for success on and off the pitch. This not being able to compete financially is nonsense.

mansize

ronjo wrote: »

mansize wrote: »

If anyone looks at our team and Bayern's and thinks they are in any way comparable...

Bayern was a class apart

They should be comparable.
Bayern are the 4th richest club in the world. We are the 5th according to Forbes.

The point was made the team should be.

If richest count assets like Emirates stadium it's difficult to say. How's their liquidity ratio?

Perez may leave to chase first team football may upset people here

http://m.goal.com/s/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2017/02/16/32747482/lucas-perez-ready-to-leave-arsenal-in-search-of-regular?ICID=HP_BN_1&utm_referrer=https://t.co/vL74xLzXkq

To compare Wenger to an old person in a nursing home is ageist, derogatory and disgusting.

farna_boy

ronjo wrote: »

They should be comparable.
Bayern are the 4th richest club in the world. We are the 5th according to Forbes.

Well when you consider that they bought in Muller off the bench for their second sub and our second sub was Walcott, can you please explain to me how the **** we are comparable?

mansize

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Totally agree. The team we have, on paper at least is a strong team with some very good players and should have given Bayern a fight. It has to be the philosophy or lack of from Wenger. If he does not have it, why should the team care.

On paper we're nowhere near as strong. This is the point I was referring to, not the club's potential ability to compete

tayto lover

Basil3 wrote: »

Yeah, that's fair enough. Ambition is more about who is brought in than who is removed, though.

Sacking Wenger and bringing in Howe isn't really ambition to me.

Howe is being used as the disruptive pawn in this.
Nobody has mentioned his name as a certain replacement.
He couldn't be any worse but we can do a lot better. We're supposed to be a big club.

KaiserGunner

farna_boy wrote: »

Well when you consider that they bought in Muller off the bench for their second sub and our second sub was Walcott, can you please explain to me how the **** we are comparable?

Should be comparable he said. Apparently our squad last night cost more than Bayern Munchen one.

mansize

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Should be comparable he said. Apparently our squad last night cost more than Bayern Munchen one.

"The team we have on paper is at least as strong"

Nowhere near

mansize

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Should be comparable he said. Apparently our squad last night cost more than Bayern Munchen one.

FCB have a very different supply model to most clubs tbf

KaiserGunner

mansize wrote: »

"The team we have on paper is at least as strong"

Nowhere near

And who assembled this squad? Why isn't it as strong seeing how it cost more? Especially since you've been playing the whole we can't compete financially with our rivals card.

ronjo

KaiserGunner wrote: »

farna_boy wrote: »

Well when you consider that they bought in Muller off the bench for their second sub and our second sub was Walcott, can you please explain to me how the **** we are comparable?

Should be comparable he said. Apparently our squad last night cost more than Bayern Munchen one.

Exactly!

Absolutely no excuse

mansize

KaiserGunner wrote: »

And who assembled this squad? Why isn't it as strong seeing how it cost more? Especially since you've been playing the whole we can't compete financially with our rivals card.

I specifically reffered to that post as nonsense

As pointed out above, they operate two in very different player markets for one

mansize

ronjo wrote: »

Exactly!

Absolutely no excuse

No. We won't examine how FCB can cherry pick the best players in the German leagues to play for them

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

You'd swear Wenger had no control over who he bought... Jesus if you can't see it's his fault well then I just don't know.

Name ONE player in that's squad Wenger isn't directly involved in buying or selecting to be in the team. It's his f*cking team. All f*cking his.

farna_boy

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Exactly, the way some people go on they would swear the club were poor paupers. The club is set up for success on and off the pitch. This not being able to compete financially is nonsense.

In fairness trying to compare us to Bayern is ridiculous. Bayern might be 4th but the next closest to them in Germany is Dortmund who have a quarter of the wealth that Bayern have.

Compare that to Arsenal, who are the second richest in England but City and Chelsea are actually quite close in terms of wealth.

So what does that actually mean? Well if a fantastic player is playing in Germany and wants to progress, Bayern are the obvious choice for him. It is also clear, looking at the rich list, that Bayern can outbid anyone else and are the clear favourites to attract and sign anyone the want or anyone who might want to play in Germany.

If the same player was in England (or wanted to play in England) though, it is a far different story. Instead of one club, there are four massively rich clubs, one of which is Arsenal. The player could go to any. At Arsenal he may be guaranteed CL football, but the wage structure is far lower for the top players there than in any of the other 3 clubs.

If Arsenal were to change the wage structure, then I have no doubt we would be as attractive, if not more so than any other club. But that would mean less profits for the board and Kronke and Stan so I don't see it happening soon because as soon as one player gets an increase, every player will need an increase accordingly.

If we want to push on, that is what needs to change, because if it doesn't change, it won't matter if Wenger stays or goes, we won't be able to get the best talent in.

mansize

farna_boy wrote: »

In fairness trying to compare us to Bayern is ridiculous. Bayern might be 4th but the next closest to them in Germany is Dortmund who have a quarter of the wealth that Bayern have.

Compare that to Arsenal, who are the second richest in England but City and Chelsea are actually quite close in terms of wealth.

So what does that actually mean? Well if a fantastic player is playing in Germany and wants to progress, Bayern are the obvious choice for him. It is also clear, looking at the rich list, that Bayern can outbid anyone else and are the clear favourites to attract and sign anyone the want or anyone who might want to play in Germany.

If the same player was in England (or wanted to play in England) though, it is a far different story. Instead of one club, there are four massively rich clubs, one of which is Arsenal. The player could go to any. At Arsenal he may be guaranteed CL football, but the wage structure is far lower for the top players there than in any of the other 3 clubs.

If Arsenal were to change the wage structure, then I have no doubt we would be as attractive, if not more so than any other club. But that would mean less profits for the board and Kronke and Stan so I don't see it happening soon because as soon as one player gets an increase, every player will need an increase accordingly.

If we want to push on, that is what needs to change, because if it doesn't change, it won't matter if Wenger stays or goes, we won't be able to get the best talent in.

Excellent points.,well made

KaiserGunner

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Should be comparable he said. Apparently our squad last night cost more than Bayern Munchen one.

I wish we could get a £50m+ striker for free.

tayto lover

Basil3 wrote: »

I wish we could get a £50m+ striker for free.

Maybe we're not attractive enough.

tayto lover

farna_boy wrote: »

In fairness trying to compare us to Bayern is ridiculous. Bayern might be 4th but the next closest to them in Germany is Dortmund who have a quarter of the wealth that Bayern have.

Compare that to Arsenal, who are the second richest in England but City and Chelsea are actually quite close in terms of wealth.

So what does that actually mean? Well if a fantastic player is playing in Germany and wants to progress, Bayern are the obvious choice for him. It is also clear, looking at the rich list, that Bayern can outbid anyone else and are the clear favourites to attract and sign anyone the want or anyone who might want to play in Germany.

If the same player was in England (or wanted to play in England) though, it is a far different story. Instead of one club, there are four massively rich clubs, one of which is Arsenal. The player could go to any. At Arsenal he may be guaranteed CL football, but the wage structure is far lower for the top players there than in any of the other 3 clubs.

If Arsenal were to change the wage structure, then I have no doubt we would be as attractive, if not more so than any other club. But that would mean less profits for the board and Kronke and Stan so I don't see it happening soon because as soon as one player gets an increase, every player will need an increase accordingly.

If we want to push on, that is what needs to change, because if it doesn't change, it won't matter if Wenger stays or goes, we won't be able to get the best talent in.

You attract the best talent when you're successful. We're not and haven't been for 12 years. The player would go to any one of the other three before he'd come to a team that everyone knows is going nowhere.

Albert_Camus

farna_boy wrote: »

In fairness trying to compare us to Bayern is ridiculous. Bayern might be 4th but the next closest to them in Germany is Dortmund who have a quarter of the wealth that Bayern have.

Compare that to Arsenal, who are the second richest in England but City and Chelsea are actually quite close in terms of wealth.

So what does that actually mean? Well if a fantastic player is playing in Germany and wants to progress, Bayern are the obvious choice for him. It is also clear, looking at the rich list, that Bayern can outbid anyone else and are the clear favourites to attract and sign anyone the want or anyone who might want to play in Germany.

If the same player was in England (or wanted to play in England) though, it is a far different story. Instead of one club, there are four massively rich clubs, one of which is Arsenal. The player could go to any. At Arsenal he may be guaranteed CL football, but the wage structure is far lower for the top players there than in any of the other 3 clubs.

If Arsenal were to change the wage structure, then I have no doubt we would be as attractive, if not more so than any other club. But that would mean less profits for the board and Kronke and Stan so I don't see it happening soon because as soon as one player gets an increase, every player will need an increase accordingly.

If we want to push on, that is what needs to change, because if it doesn't change, it won't matter if Wenger stays or goes, we won't be able to get the best talent in.

Thank you!