Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017 *Warnings see OP-updated 09/05/17*

Soups123

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Champions league every year is winning in one sense. Could be a case of you don't know what you have till it's gone.

Not really it's the equivalent of going to the disco every week but never getting the bird. Some weeks you just couldn't be arsed going

BorneTobyWilde

Would be silly to sack him, has to finish in summer. Nothing to gain in sacking him now.
Players gave up tonight, but there comes a time in a tie when you ease off, maybe it was at 7-2, or 9-2, you ease up, like a horse 50 lengths behind with a furlong to go.

TimeToShine

He needs to go but at the same time I feel bad for him. I think he feels a bit trapped - he can't just walk away and leave us without a manager mid-season after everything he's done for us. And the alternative is getting sacked which may well happen in the summer.

Make no mistake his time is up but I still feel for the man, nobody deserves this sort of treatment especially from the fans.

Royale with Cheese

His position is untenable, and given that is the case then it should really just be announced now that he will be leaving at the end of the season. It'll do something to ease the poisonous atmosphere around the club right now, might even help with the run in and save his 4th place record.

Hunky Monster

Hunky Monster wrote: »

We won stuff before Wenger and we will win after him. Three league titles in 21 years is hardly stellar. The 4th place trophy does nothing for me either. Who's to say of we had any combination of managers for the last 21 years we wouldn't have won 3 or more titles? His record is frankly pathetic...And what's worse is he's proud of it.

I read up alot about Herbert Chapman who was a tremendous innovator and always liked to be one step ahead.
He would have adapted to any era such was his tendency to throw caution to the wind. I'd safely say he would turn in his grave at what Arsenal have become

wonga77

TimeToShine wrote: »

He needs to go but at the same time I feel bad for him. I think he feels a bit trapped - he can't just walk away and leave us without a manager mid-season after everything he's done for us. And the alternative is getting sacked which may well happen in the summer.

Make no mistake his time is up but I still feel for the man, nobody deserves this sort of treatment especially from the fans.

But it has to happen sometime, surely deep down he must know his time is up

gandalf

The club need to fire him with immediate effect.

Arghus

Just feel a bit numb really. No point dancing on Arsene's grave right now. We all know, apart from the utterly deluded, that his time is up, but he should be allowed some dignity and left to finish out the season.

duffman13

Watching the match tonight I genuinely felt sorry for Ox, might not be the best player in terms of talent but he gives it everything.

Looking at those players, a Simeone/Conte type manager would do wonders for Arsenal. Personally I'm not a fan of Allegri but Wenger has to be on his last legs at this stage

Jesus Wept

Absolute legend.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3009591/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-Jose-Mourinho-Harry-Redknapp-five-times-156-managers-left-Premier-League-clubs-Arsene-Wenger-took-Arsenal.html

the untitled user

****ing dismal... for all the whinging about Wenger, the way those players just give up and get stroppy when things go against them just smacks of a lack of professionalism. Wenger has protected his men for too long, they deserve a hiding tonight.

wandatowell

https://twitter.com/FootyAwayDayVid/status/839220417810280456


Hopefully the club will start to get the message.

Arghus

Arghus wrote: »

Just feel a bit numb really. No point dancing on Arsene's grave right now. We all know, apart from the utterly deluded, that his time is up, but he should be allowed some dignity and left to finish out the season.

The fans know its up but the very very worrying thing is that the arrogant board and Wenger himself do not seem to agree.

Barlett

Whenever Wenger is replaced, we will see that all these players in the team are just **** players. I hate them all.

One thing I don't have time for is this bollox of 'oh Wenger inhererited the best defence in the league' yes of course that amazing defence that managed 12th place in the league just three seasons before the double.

Read Tony Adams book, had Wenger not arrived when he did , Adams wouldn't have won a premier league.

Time for him to go, but less of the twisting history to suit a bullsh1t narrative

Barlett

Barlett wrote: »

Whenever Wenger is replaced, we will see that all these players in the team are just **** players. I hate them all.

One thing I don't have time for is this bollox of 'oh Wenger inhererited the best defence in the league' yes of course that amazing defence that managed 12th place in the league just three seasons before the double.

Read Tony Adams book, had Wenger not arrived when he did , Adams wouldn't have won a premier league.

Time for him to go, but less of the twisting history to suit a bullsh1t narrative

Yes i agree with this. Wenger was terrific when he arrived ill happily say that. The difference is he came in with fresh eyes and identified that the diets had to change and that the drinking culture had to be abolished and as a result he extended the careers of Adams, Keown, Dixon, Winterburn, and Bould. He was a breath of fresh air to the club. But the new generation of players are in no way (rightly or wrongly) responding to his methods and yet the Arsenal supporters pay top buck to attend a game. Something is drastically wrong here.

The scenes of protest tonight are very very sad indeed but they have been years in the making and alot of Wengers own volition.

Arsenal needs fresh eyes to come in and rejuvenate the club. We needed them back in 1996 but we need them more now because the man who changed the club in 1996 for the better is doing severe damage to it with every game.

The players are not playing for him. Love or loathe Sanchez when he is on the pitch he is giving his all. He could have a few scudetto medals in his pocket at this stage had he chosen Juve but he chose to come to us and aside from a measly cup we are further away from winning the league then we ever were over the last 11 years.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjl8OIZijjY

Wenger fixed the road. I can imagine there are older Arsenal fans telling their sons and daughters this.
That it's best to stick with what you know.

~Rebel~

I think the best thing he can do is pull a Luis Enrique.

Announce that he'll step aside at the end of the season. Then everyone can stop with the vitriol as the future will no longer be in doubt. The public rage with the aim of affecting change will no longer be no longer be required, as the job will be done. The season is effectively a write-off anyway aside from aiming for a champions league spot, and it might even help with that as the atmosphere around the ground will totally change. Players will already be performing for their next manager, knowing anyone the club talks to will be watching closely.

People can start looking back over his years at the club and recognize what he did, safe in the knowledge that change is coming. The club has plenty of time to find a top quality replacement. The whole tone can shift from "fuck you" to "farewell". Seems the best thing for everyone really.

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjl8OIZijjY

Wenger fixed the road. I can imagine there are older Arsenal fans telling their sons and daughters this.
That it's best to stick with what you know.

No, id beg to differ. Its the likes of myself, Gandalf, Tayto, etc who have been Gooners long before Wenger arrived who see this currently codology for what it is (the latter two far longer than a young whippersnapper like myself granted )

BorneTobyWilde

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I think the best thing he can do is pull a Luis Enrique.

Announce that he'll step aside at the end of the season. Then everyone can stop with the vitriol as the future will no longer be in doubt. The public rage with the aim of affecting change will no longer be no longer be required, as the job will be done. The season is effectively a write-off anyway aside from aiming for a champions league spot, and it might even help with that as the atmosphere around the ground will totally change. Players will already be performing for their next manager, knowing anyone the club talks to will be watching closely.

People can start looking back over his years at the club and recognize what he did, safe in the knowledge that change is coming. The club has plenty of time to find a top quality replacement. The whole tone can shift from "fuck you" to "farewell". Seems the best thing for everyone really.

The whole club would get behind him if he did that. Announce he is stepping down and get on with rest of season, and come the last game all the fans and club, and every other club with celebrate what he brought to the English game. He could have his perfect send off.

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

The whole club would get behind him if he did that. Announce he is stepping down and get on with rest of season, and come the last game all the fans and club, and every other club with celebrate what he brought to the English game. He could have his perfect send off.

I absolutely agree that this would be the best outcome tbh but he is too fúcking stubborn :mad:

Bobby Baccala

Growing up Arsenes Arsenal was the only one I ever knew (I'm 21), I've adored him and this club since I was 4 years old and I was given my first Arsenal jersey, (the 99 one with JVC on the front) but tonight's performance and the past 2 seasons in general have made me fall out of love with this club, can't really even be bothered to post here anymore.

It's been genuinely painful to watch us lately, seeing Wenger make a further embarrassment of himself, seeing our players disgracing themselves, seeing our fans so disheartened at matches. Something big needs to happen at Arsenal because we are up **** creek and it's only getting worse, no fa cup and top 4 finish (if we can scrape either one of them) can paper over the cracks anymore, we've become a mediocre team full of mediocre players who couldn't really give a rats about the club anymore.

As a matter of interest, do many Arsenal fans here remember that spell between 71 and 87? Was it 1 Cup win?

And that was at a time when clubs like Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City were not just buying the title.

P4DDY2K11

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Growing up Arsenes Arsenal was the only one I ever knew (I'm 21), I've adored him and this club since I was 4 years old and I was given my first Arsenal jersey, (the 99 one with JVC on the front) but tonight's performance and the past 2 seasons in general have made me fall out of love with this club, can't really even be bothered to post here anymore.

It's been genuinely painful to watch us lately, seeing Wenger make a further embarrassment of himself, seeing our players disgracing themselves, seeing our fans so disheartened at matches. Something big needs to happen at Arsenal because we are up **** creek and it's only getting worse, no fa cup and top 4 finish (if we can scrape either one of them) can paper over the cracks anymore, we've become a mediocre team full of mediocre players who couldn't really give a rats about the club anymore.

While Wenger has to be praised for his first decade, this is arguably the worst era in Arsenal's history in terms of the calibre of personnel attitude we have at the club. What is evidently abundant is that none of them care about Arsenal FC and that sadly includes many UK based players.

We've never been in this situation before. Yes Arsenal have had their struggles i wont doubt, namely the relegation battles in the 70s, but we have always had lads who would bust their balls for the club and who to this day are proud to say they played for the club.

I do have to laugh at a few pretentious idiot journalists like Oliver Kay saying that prior to Wenger's arrival in 1996 we finished 12th in 1995. Prior to Wengers arrival, we won the league 10 times, the cup six times and the league cup twice. Im not dismissing Wengers achievements but what he achieved between 1996 and 2006 just cannot be used as defence for the current situation.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

As a matter of interest, do many Arsenal fans here remember that spell between 71 and 87? Was it 1 Cup win?

And that was at a time when clubs like Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City were not just buying the title.

Its not simply the winning or losing people are upset about. Its whether we are honestly being the best club we can possibly be. Last season the title was there for the taking and Arsenal fell apart and this trait has continued at a time where the club was really under the microscope. Finances or Stadium builds is no longer an excuse. This has been a running gag for over a decade. We had collapses in 2008, 2009, 2010, losing the league cup in 2011, hammered by milan in 12, bayern in 13 and 14, monaco in 15, barca in 16 and bayern in 17.

Arsenal contested 4 finals from 1978 to 1980 and lost by the odd goal in 2 cup finals. They also lost the cup winners cup final in 1980. On that night, David o'leary marked Mario Kempes out of the game. Kempes was at the time one of the most coveted strikers in the world and was golden boot winner at the 78 world cup. Likewise we cant be too harsh on Wenger for losing the cup final in 2001 or the UEFA cup final in 2000. While we had the class to win both finals we just didnt have the luck and at the very least we went out and rectified the cup loss in 01 the following 3 out of 4 seasons. We also improved greatly in European Competition up to 2006 while admittedly we could have been alot better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KbgA3u-7RI

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Its not simply the winning or losing people are upset about.

Arsenal contested 4 finals from 1978 to 1980 and lost by the odd goal in 2 cup finals. They also lost the cup winners cup final in 1980. On that night, David o'leary marked Mario Kempes out of the game. Kempes was at the time one of the most coveted strikers in the world and was golden boot winner at the 78 world cup.

You refer to narrow cup losses from that era...but previously you referred to "measly cup wins" in more recent times?

In the 70s, within a short period of winning the double, Arsenal were finishing 16th and 17th. You refer to Leicester last season, Arsenal were overtaken by Derby and Forest and Villa and Everton and a whole host of clubs who won the league and in Europe in that era. Kempes having an off night doesn't resurrect it.

jonneymendoza

Morning all.

hows everyone feeling? I feel Hungover.

i was at the emirates yesterday and the atmosphere was rubbish. All you can hear was Bayern fans.

It was flat. The club is finished.

Dead i tell you

liam7831

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Morning all.

hows everyone feeling? I feel Hungover.

i was at the emirates yesterday and the atmosphere was rubbish. All you can hear was Bayern fans.

It was flat. The club is finished.

Dead i tell you

Take a few panadol

SlickRic

FWIW...

The club isn't dying, is not finished, or any of the other stuff that I've seen bandied around the place here and elsewhere.

Things can turn around quicker than you think. With the right manager in, there's no doubt many chancers will be thrown out, but some players will show bottle and step up. Don't write off them all under new management.

Wenger simply must go. Between the recent form, the pressure and the general malaise at the club, if it was any other big club and any other manager, they'd work out a way for him to go.

I keep seeing this argument from some Wenger sympathisers of "but look at what happened to Utd when Fergie". It's false equivalency. Fergie was winning titles until his final season. Wenger is certainly not.

Football has simply passed him by. There are no leaders at the club that are going to pull Arsenal out of this. It's ingrained now that the team fails when it comes to the really big moments. That will not change until there's change at the top IMO.

gandalf

Say what you want about the Arsenal teams of the eighties and their successes or lack of sucesses, they would never have delivered two capitulations like those Bayern games without bleeding for the club and making the opposition bleed. There are no leaders, character or backbone in this team. We all now expect a collapse in certain games against certain teams.

ronjo

SlickRic wrote: »

FWIW...

The club isn't dying, is not finished, or any of the other stuff that I've seen bandied around the place here and elsewhere.

Things can turn around quicker than you think. With the right manager in, there's no doubt many chancers will be thrown out, but some players will show bottle and step up. Don't write off them all under new management.

Wenger simply must go. Between the recent form, the pressure and the general malaise at the club, if it was any other big club and any other manager, they'd work out a way for him to go.

I keep seeing this argument from some Wenger sympathisers of "but look at what happened to Utd when Fergie". It's false equivalency. Fergie was winning titles until his final season. Wenger is certainly not.

Football has simply passed him by. There are no leaders at the club that are going to pull Arsenal out of this. It's ingrained now that the team fails when it comes to the really big moments. That will not change until there's change at the top IMO.

I fully agree with this and I would reckon the vast majority of fans do to.

I have been saying for weeks that he should announce he is leaving.
Majority seemed to disagree here when I first suggested it but I think its the only possible solution at this stage as the protests and bad feeling will grow and grow until he does announce he is leaving.

wawaman

gandalf wrote: »

The club need to fire him with immediate effect.

i think you are mixing the arsenal board up with someone who actually knows how to run a club

LuckyLloyd

gandalf wrote: »

Say what you want about the Arsenal teams of the eighties and their successes or lack of sucesses, they would never have delivered two capitulations like those Bayern games without bleeding for the club and making the opposition bleed. There are no leaders, character or backbone in this team. We all now expect a collapse in certain games against certain teams.

Forget about the teams of the eighties; Wenger's own team circa 1998 - 2004 would have kicked Bayern off the pitch in final half hour last night and there's no way they would have shipped a further four goals after the penalty. That mentality is the one that carries you to leagues or to a European Cup Final. And it has been absent from Wenger's Arsenal for nigh on a decade now.

gandalf

wawaman wrote: »

i think you are mixing the arsenal board up with someone who actually knows how to run a club

Oh I am aware of that unfortunately. Kroenke doesn't want a new manager because he is using the fact that Arsenal have a pile of cash as a lever to allow him get financing for his American sports assets. The first thing a new top tier manager will want is the funds to build a squad to compete. Big Stan then loses his big financial lever. That's all Arsenal are to him. He doesn't give a rat's ass about the performance on the field once the performance on the balance book is top class.

Wenger needs to go but longer term Kroenke needs to **** off as well!

wonga77

Out of curiosity, when was the last time Kroenke was pictured at a game?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

As a matter of interest, do many Arsenal fans here remember that spell between 71 and 87? Was it 1 Cup win?

And that was at a time when clubs like Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City were not just buying the title.

We've 3 cups in 13 years so we're getting close to that.

Fox Hound

the grass is not always greener....If Wenger does leave, then what happens???...will these players be exposed for what they really are and play even worse,,,,or miraculously become league winners,???

will the board pump money into the club??? I highly doubt it...they haven't really been very cash friendly with Wenger over the last few years and if a new guy comes in I don't see things changing!!!

my advice is to be careful what you wish for!!! Loyalty is a word that is forgotten in football when clubs go through hard times!!!

ronjo

Fox Hound wrote: »

the grass is not always greener....If Wenger does leave, then what happens???...will these players be exposed for what they really are and play even worse,,,,or miraculously become league winners,???

will the board pump money into the club??? I highly doubt it...they haven't really been very cash friendly with Wenger over the last few years and if a new guy comes in I don't see things changing!!!

my advice is to be careful what you wish for!!! Loyalty is a word that is forgotten in football when clubs go through hard times!!!

All that may be very true but its pretty boring being an Arsenal fan now.
Ok we have finished ahead of United, Liverpool and Spurs every year for the last 3 years but our seasons are so predictable.

Time for change.

Nidgeweasel

Fox Hound wrote: »

the grass is not always greener....If Wenger does leave, then what happens???...will these players be exposed for what they really are and play even worse,,,,or miraculously become league winners,???

will the board pump money into the club??? I highly doubt it...they haven't really been very cash friendly with Wenger over the last few years and if a new guy comes in I don't see things changing!!!

my advice is to be careful what you wish for!!! Loyalty is a word that is forgotten in football when clubs go through hard times!!!

Thanks for that Gary Neville.

wonga77

Some of them cant play any worse really. These arent hard times, they are boring predictable times.
The only difference this year is that we didnt do the whole heroic exit from Europe thing that we always seem to do. Id also say that if things keeps going as they are then the top 4 record will be gone too

FixitFelix

Fox Hound wrote: »

the grass is not always greener....If Wenger does leave, then what happens???...will these players be exposed for what they really are and play even worse,,,,or miraculously become league winners,???

will the board pump money into the club??? I highly doubt it...they haven't really been very cash friendly with Wenger over the last few years and if a new guy comes in I don't see things changing!!!

my advice is to be careful what you wish for!!! Loyalty is a word that is forgotten in football when clubs go through hard times!!!

No half of them will be sold, Arsenal have been loyal to Wenger and he in turn has been loyal to the average players he brought in, and look where we are, a total shambles

Colonialboy

Cant be letting that sort of performance pass without comment. 
Theres another layer to the Wenger onion being exposed.
Hes been a busted flush as a top class football manager for many years, bar a few fantasists and the bulk of people late to the realisation, its clear for everyone to see now he doesnt have it anymoe and hasnt had it for probably 8 years or 9 years.
But theres another level being exposed now. WENGER THE MAN.
All this rubbish of wenger being loyal to players.. rubbish, rubbish rubbish, Wengers only loyal to one thing and thats himself. He doesnt hold onto players out of loyalty he holds onto players cos if he sold them he would have to admit he failed in having faith in them in the first place.  
Wengers a long history of not being loyal to top players.
Wenger has a long history of pushing Arsenal players, fans, ex-pros media etc out of his circle and hte Arsenal circle if they were not complementary to him.
Wengers tocuhline record is very poor.  
Wenger talks about respect and contracts, all he respects is the 6 million he gets a year, hes loyal to that. As they say in France about Wenger, he would not spit on money.   
Wenger full of excuses, blames everyone else, blaming fans , blaming media, blaming refs, how about blaming himself for a change. 

Look at him he cant even manage to create a proper legacy or transisiton of his position. 
Hanging on like the selfish egoist he is. 
Wenger has been exposed as a poor manager in the top flite world and european level of football.
Wenger is now also being exposed as the petty, conniving, sneaky , mean spirited, egoist money grabbing person that he is too.

by the way I see the usual suspects jumping on the Coq is crap bandwagon... how long did it take ye to figure that one out .

Mr.Micro

It's over and done with now, it was after the first leg against Bayern. To lose is one thing, but 2-10, a tennis score, deeply embarrassing. To my mind if Wenger cannot see how awful we are, then he must just be there for the salary?

It's probably better that he stays there until the summer. I think it might be better if we do not get CL football next season if he continues at the club, as another such humiliation would be unbearable.

brianregan09

The gas thing is people saying wenger had no money to spend he spent 90 bloody million in the summer and no one of note left and we've gone massively backwards.

There just isn't any excuses left would any of the other 19 premier league teams threw in the towel as quickly as we did last night

SteM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I think it might be better if we do not get CL football next season if he continues at the club, as another such humiliation would be unbearable.

Problem is, if Arsenal miss out on CL football they'll probably get Europa League football instead which I probably won't help them in the short term to medium term. They almost need to fall to Liverpool levels where they're not qualifying for Europe, that might allow them to focus on the league.

brianregan09

brianregan09 wrote: »

The gas thing is people saying wenger had no money to spend he spent 90 bloody million in the summer and no one of note left and we've gone massively backwards.

There just isn't any excuses left would any of the other 19 premier league teams threw in the towel as quickly as we did last night

He did a Liverpool and spent decent money on generally no-marks. But hold on, we have to give them til next season to "bed in".

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You refer to narrow cup losses from that era...but previously you referred to "measly cup wins" in more recent times?

In the 70s, within a short period of winning the double, Arsenal were finishing 16th and 17th. You refer to Leicester last season, Arsenal were overtaken by Derby and Forest and Villa and Everton and a whole host of clubs who won the league and in Europe in that era. Kempes having an off night doesn't resurrect it.

I'm not buying this 'were lucky to have Wenger' shít anymore just because we weren't flying on all cylinders in the 70s. That's no excuse. Since 2014 we've suffered many batterings and prior to that in 2011 we suffered an 8-2 hammering at United's hands. He's overseen many many hammerings against the big teams and yet we continue to be the most expensive team in England to buy a ticket

Rikand

ronjo wrote: »

All that may be very true but its pretty boring being an Arsenal fan now.
Ok we have finished ahead of United, Liverpool and Spurs every year for the last 3 years but our seasons are so predictable.

Time for change.

A few relegations would really spice things up!

monkey9

Fox Hound wrote: »

the grass is not always greener....If Wenger does leave, then what happens???...will these players be exposed for what they really are and play even worse,,,,or miraculously become league winners,???

will the board pump money into the club??? I highly doubt it...they haven't really been very cash friendly with Wenger over the last few years and if a new guy comes in I don't see things changing!!!

my advice is to be careful what you wish for!!! Loyalty is a word that is forgotten in football when clubs go through hard times!!!

I honestly can't see things getting so bad in this regard that it wouldn't justify a managerial change. It's not like they'd be relegated or even finish mid table. They'd still be up there, but possibly more competitive.

Royale with Cheese

So who goes in the summer clear out then? An awful lot of mid table dross in that squad.