New Build 2018 - €1,000/sqm

jiminho

Hi folks. I'm at the conceptual design stage so only figuring out rough costs right now. The aim is E1,000/sqm for the building itself and I'm wanting to know if a) is it even possible and b) if yes, what can I do to attain this value? e.g. direct labour build method, install flooring yourself, kit house etc.
Some assumptions and exclusions which will hopefully take the edge of the saying "how long is a piece of string.
Exclusions:
Professional fees
Council contributions
Utility connections
Landscaping (inc. driveway, gates, etc.)

Assumptions:
Location: South County Dublin
Level site with no major drainage issues
Water table is low. Soil bearing capacity is good etc. So essentially perfect site conditions.
Will mostly use direct labour route. I'm a civil engineer PM so have experience and I'm not useless at DIY

Thanks

Should also say that I'm pretty obsessed with building a passive house but realise that it's prbably not attainable with my budget. But if I were to go down that route, I'd be very interested in a prefab house,  something like what Viking House do. Anybody any experience with them? From what I can tell they basically get the house to first fix and the rest will need to be done by others but what would their average per/sqm cost to first fix be?

BryanF

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Gumbo

Passive at 1000 a meter I would say not a chance. The skill set to achieve this would put you over budget.
1000 a meter might get you the fabric of the building. No skirting, painting, doors, lights, windows, sanitary ware etc etc and if you do direct labour.

If been mortgaged then you have to be careful as final payments can be held off if not complete and habitable and in compliance with planning and building regs

jiminho

kceire wrote: »

Passive at 1000 a meter I would say not a chance. The skill set to achieve this would put you over budget.
1000 a meter might get you the fabric of the building. No skirting, painting, doors, lights, windows, sanitary ware etc etc and if you do direct labour.

If been mortgaged then you have to be careful as final payments can be held off if not complete and habitable and in compliance with planning and building regs

So what your essentially saying is a E1,000/sqm for a first fix house via direct labour? Really? If you add on, say, E400/sqm (ball parked value) for second fix and 20% for contractor and PM markup, that totals nearly E1,700/sqm!! I can't obviously doubt you because nor do i have experience in building a house, I don't even currently live in the country but can i ask what you're basing your statement on.

Appreciate the reply.

Gumbo

jiminho wrote: »

So what your essentially saying is a E1,000/sqm for a first fix house via direct labour? Really? If you add on, say, E400/sqm (ball parked value) for second fix and 20% for contractor and PM markup, that totals nearly E1,700/sqm!! I can't obviously doubt you because nor do i have experience in building a house, I don't even currently live in the country but can i ask what you're basing your statement on.

Appreciate the reply.

Every tender since mid 2016 has been 1600-1850 per square meter in Dublin. One was 2046 per square meter just before Christmas.
You don't have to believe or agree me, just get 3 quotes when you are in the country.

BryanF

Best of luck with your build. Please keep us informed of your progress. As a civil Eng, how will you deal on BCAR and sign Off ?

jiminho

kceire wrote: »

Every tender since mid 2016 has been 1600-1850 per square meter in Dublin. One was 2046 per square meter just before Christmas.
You don't have to believe or agree me, just get 3 quotes when you are in the country.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just a little taken a back. From looking at other threads in here, doing some researching and talking to friends (albeit not in the reseidential sector) I was thinking it would be more around €1400/sqm for building costs but you're saying not. Are you a builder or an architect do you mind me asking?

And yes, I will be tendering the job if only to weigh up my options but there is a conceptual/prelim stage before all that where high level costs are factored in

jiminho

BryanF wrote: »

Best of luck with your build. Please keep us informed of your progress. As a civil Eng, how will you deal on BCAR and sign Off ?

Thanks, early days yet though! I'm not sure tbh. While I'll be treating this as my dream home I'd be foolish in saying I'll be living there forever but then costs come into play. How much does certification/sign off cost for an average house? My opinion is a self build, which usually has a different design to surrounding buildings (if only internal), sell on price will not be affected by whether I opted in or out of certification. Now, if there was a row of terraced houses and 1 out of the 5 didn't then logically I would assume it would but come sell on I don't think my estate agent will tell me to lower the price by 20k as I didn't opt in and I don't think a buyer will come look at my house, and hopefully like it, but decide not to buy because the house around the corner which has a completely different layout did. Of course I'm speculating and opinions will differ but that's mine. I am an engineer so I know the importance of these regulations but whether I would get a sign off on something I know I've done...well I don't know yet.

Over here in Canada the certification is free and supplied by the municipality. Why can't we just do that!

Gumbo

jiminho wrote: »

Thanks, early days yet though! I'm not sure tbh. While I'll be treating this as my dream home I'd be foolish in saying I'll be living there forever but then costs come into play. How much does certification/sign off cost for an average house? My opinion is a self build, which usually has a different design to surrounding buildings (if only internal), sell on price will not be affected by whether I opted in or out of certification. Now, if there was a row of terraced houses and 1 out of the 5 didn't then logically I would assume it would but come sell on I don't think my estate agent will tell me to lower the price by 20k as I didn't opt in and I don't think a buyer will come look at my house, and hopefully like it, but decide not to buy because the house around the corner which has a completely different layout did. Of course I'm speculating and opinions will differ but that's mine. I am an engineer so I know the importance of these regulations but whether I would get a sign off on something I know I've done...well I don't know yet.

Over here in Canada the certification is free and supplied by the municipality. Why can't we just do that!

Can you certify your own house?
Can you offer certificates of compliance with building and planning regulations on your own house?

Engineers ireland code of ethics may state otherwise but I suppose if there's a conflict of interest you should step back. You could design it and have someone else check on your design.

Also bearing in mind to offer these certs you need to be registered and have a minimum PI insurance policy in place.

But then, it comes back to the finance, if you are not getting a mortgage then you may be free to do as you please but as a future buyer, seeing a house built by Joe bloggs and certified by Joe bloggs, that might make them question it.

jiminho

kceire wrote: »

Can you certify your own house?
Can you offer certificates of compliance with building and planning regulations on your own house?

Engineers ireland code of ethics may state otherwise but I suppose if there's a conflict of interest you should step back. You could design it and have someone else check on your design.

Also bearing in mind to offer these certs you need to be registered and have a minimum PI insurance policy in place.

But then, it comes back to the finance, if you are not getting a mortgage then you may be free to do as you please but as a future buyer, seeing a house built by Joe bloggs and certified by Joe bloggs, that might make them question it.

I would imagine the answer is no, right now anyway. I wouldn't want to be signing off on the design drawings. I will have a conceptual design laid out but I will be consulting an architect for the final design package. While I'm confident I could get something on paper, an architects recommendations and advice will be invaluable. I don't plan to skimp on design. From then on though, inspections and sign off, I may not get certification.

http://www.iaosb.com/Information%20Note.pdf

Page 9 of the link lays it out well. I'm sure you've seen it before but it looks like you need to get a professional to complete your drawings regardless if you opt in or out.

Gumbo

jiminho wrote: »

I would imagine the answer is no, right now anyway. I wouldn't want to be signing off on the design drawings. I will have a conceptual design laid out but I will be consulting an architect for the final design package. While I'm confident I could get something on paper, an architects recommendations and advice will be invaluable. I don't plan to skimp on design. From then on though, inspections and sign off, I may not get certification.

http://www.iaosb.com/Information%20Note.pdf

Page 9 of the link lays it out well. I'm sure you've seen it before but it looks like you need to get a professional to complete your drawings regardless if you opt in or out.

Will you be building from your own personal cash reserve or getting a bank mortgage?

jiminho

kceire wrote: »

Will you be building from your own personal cash reserve or getting a bank mortgage?

I know where your next question is going. A mortgage so would a mortgage lender require full certification and sign off? How much does it all cost?

Gumbo

jiminho wrote: »

I know where your next question is going. A mortgage so would a mortgage lender require full certification and sign off? How much does it all cost?

Yes. Mortgage providers require certification before, during and after the build. Some require Assigned Certifier engagement, some are happy with an architect, engineer or surveyor once adequate PI is in place but you have to see what your bank requires with regards to this/BCAR.

The banks require a cert signed on application from the person you are using outlying costs and certifying that they will be supervising the works. Then stage payment certs. Then the final payment is not released until certs of compliance are issued.

UB for example require a min of €350k PI in place.

jiminho

kceire wrote: »

Yes. Mortgage providers require certification before, during and after the build. Some require Assigned Certifier engagement, some are happy with an architect, engineer or surveyor once adequate PI is in place but you have to see what your bank requires with regards to this/BCAR.

The banks require a cert signed on application from the person you are using outlying costs and certifying that they will be supervising the works. Then stage payment certs. Then the final payment is not released until certs of compliance are issued.

UB for example require a min of €350k PI in place.

Ok so ballpark how much would all that cost for 300kish build?

Dudda

jiminho wrote: »

kceire wrote: »

Ok so ballpark how much would all that cost for 300kish build?

I presume if you're building a house in Ireland you'll be moving to Ireland and if talking about a mortgage you must have a job lined up or have one in mind. As an engineer will you be working in an office that could sign off for you? That's what I have. I could sign off myself but the bank won't allow so someone else in the office signs the stage payment certs for me.

Gumbo

jiminho wrote: »

Ok so ballpark how much would all that cost for 300kish build?

Assuming they take control of all areas, building regs, bcms, air tightness, Energy design and certify, I'd say north of 10k again all the people are paid.