Changes to Kilkenny/Waterford county boundaries

KT Blotter

Squidvicious wrote: »

I can honestly say that all of my neighbours are against it.
....There's certainly a danger that KKCC would be forever looking over it's shoulder for another boundary move. That would be a disincentive for KKCC to upgrade infrastructure in the vicinity in the future.

Well that's good to know, I've friends living in ferrybank who are for it because of poor services and others indifferent probably because like you they don't really use council services, so it seems there is a split on the issue.

Just a thought, but could the fear of the boundary being changed be the reason that kilkenny council is supposed to not have invested in the ferrybank area all these years as I have been told? If that's the case, ferrybank, where you live, will never get upgraded infrastructure unless the boundary review happens!

I'd be surprised if KKCC would not upgrade infrastructure in the port area as you suggest, if it's "all about the money" as the people has it this week, why would the council stop investing in the port "cash-cow"?

Edit: I'm done now

road_high

KT Blotter wrote: »

Nah sorry road high I'm just not convinced.

Just because you mightn't need to visit john's green very often isn't a good enough reason to ignore those who do and who have to travel 100km to do it (50km up and back) at their own expense when it's totally unnecessary.

They might have to inspect planning permission plans, discuss their council rates or if they are a council house tenant pay their rent or apply for a council house or whatever they got to do.

It worries me that you have actually suggested that people should move their house or business from ferrybank to get closer to kilkenny local services.

Even if you are just joking, that's just not how local government should work and especially to preserve a 100 year old boundary that runs through houses, schools and GAA pitches.

It's somewhat ironic that you've suggested this given what I saw mentioned in the people about the proposed boundary "uprooting communities" as if the suggested boundary change would have people moving their homes, the bizarre thing you've just mentioned!

Anyway, I've said enough on the topic now, I agree with what the report said about the current situation being "irrational" and I've yet to see any better ideas. I hope that the local people are put first though, that's the whole point of having council offices at all.

You still never said whether you even read the report by the way.

How often do you visit a council office? Weekly? Daily? If we were to go by your "logic" again, we'd be shredding counties all over the country. There's numerous parts of country nearer to neighbouring county towns than their own. People in west Kerry could be 80 or 100 km from Tralee...What would you suggest they do? People in tallow are 70 km from Waterford.
But these people all get along fine because it's not something that ever impinges on their lives to any extent. If a 50 km journey for an irregular visit to some office affects your life that greatly, then you probably need to get out more.
The report said it was irrational but like yourself offered no reason why apart from your overdramatisation of situations that rarely arise.

I lodged a few planning apps in my time, I never had to call back to "inspect" them- they either called me re a query, wrote to me or I kept a photocopy for myself.
Indeed I do hope they are put first and don't see their local office closed down as Waterford would do.

KT Blotter

road_high wrote: »

How often do you visit a council office? Weekly? Daily? If we were to go by your "logic" again, we'd be shredding counties all over the country. There's numerous parts of country nearer to neighbouring county towns than their own. People in west Kerry could be 80 or 100 km from Tralee...What would you suggest they do? People in tallow are 70 km from Waterford.
But these people all get along fine because it's not something that ever impinges on their lives to any extent. If a 50 km journey for an irregular visit to some office affects your life that greatly, then you probably need to get out more.
The report said it was irrational but like yourself offered no reason why apart from your overdramatisation of situations that rarely arise.

I lodged a few planning apps in my time, I never had to call back to "inspect" them- they either called me re a query, wrote to me or I kept a photocopy for myself.
Indeed I do hope they are put first and don't see their local office closed down as Waterford would do.

Out of politeness I'll reply to say

1. I do use council facilities, I think they are a great facility to have

2. Your examples don't make sense because there isn't a city council office within walking distance of West Kerry or Tallow.

3. Did you read the report yet?

4. If you did, you'd see it recommended that the local office in ferrybank shouldn't be closed.

5. The report actually said it could be a "game changer" for people living in Ferrybank because of the special development zone - I'm not going to stand in the way of progress in the long term or real local services for my friends in ferrybank in the short term - especially when the current situation was rightly described as "irrational".

6. Accusing me of "overdramatisation" is a more than a little ironic given the talk of court cases, resignation of TDs, wars, stealing hurlers, landgrabs and Hitler that's been plaguing my facebook the last week.

Over and out lads.

carq

It makes sense to proceed with the move.
The area is a suburb of waterford city as it is, time to bring it into the fold.

Some posters here are being over dramatic, there more to life than GAA.

road_high

carq wrote: »

It makes sense to proceed with the move.
The area is a suburb of waterford city as it is, time to bring it into the fold.

Some posters here are being over dramatic, there more to life than GAA.

Hardly anyone mentioned GAA apart from pro Waterford posters of course.
Do you have any other argument apart from it looking nice on a map? The way some posters crab on about it, you'd swear this was going to be some kind of panacea to the problems of the whole area and region- ask for actual evidence of this and it's the usual vague notions of better services etc

greenspurs

road_high wrote: »

Hardly anyone mentioned GAA apart from pro Waterford posters of course.
Do you have any other argument apart from it looking nice on a map? The way some posters crab on about it, you'd swear this was going to be some kind of panacea to the problems of the whole area and region- ask for actual evidence of this and it's the usual vague notions of better services etc

I asked for the same actual evidence from Waterford residents - they couldn't provide any .

Dunmoreroader

I'm pretty sure I've said on more than 1 occasion ' don't bring hurling into this' but it seems to be the main argument on the anti- border change side. Even Kilkenny GAA Chairman Ned Quinn is involved; http://kclr96fm.com/kilkenny-will-not-concede-an-inch/
But luckily an independent review panel have examined all the issues and concerns and make the recommendation to the minister and not the great and the good on Boards.ie!:)

carq

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I've said on more than 1 occasion ' don't bring hurling into this' but it seems to be the main argument on the anti- border change side. Even Kilkenny GAA Chairman Ned Quinn is involved; http://kclr96fm.com/kilkenny-will-not-concede-an-inch/
But luckily an independent review panel have examined all the issues and concerns and make the recommendation to the minister and not the great and the good on Boards.ie!:)

Here here!
Common sense wins out.
Surely house prices will increase and insurance costs decrease when the address moves to a more desirable location? Win win for the residents.

Michael Kavanagh

carq wrote: »

Here here!
Common sense wins out.
Surely house prices will increase and insurance costs decrease when the address moves to a more desirable location? Win win for the residents.

Why are house prices more valuable in Kilkenny than they are in Waterford, maybe it is the Waterford address that's why there insurance premiums are higher. As regards the gaa it will not effect people playing where they are all ready with.

road_high

carq wrote: »

Here here!
Common sense wins out.
Surely house prices will increase and insurance costs decrease when the address moves to a more desirable location? Win win for the residents.

LOL. Sticking "Waterford" on your address is a sure way to decrease house prices and desirability. Higher crimes rates reflective of Waterford would also raise insurance premiums.

blackcard

Squidvicious wrote: »

blue note wrote: »

What about the strategic planning aspect? The report said that the two councils have started working together in recent years at an operational level, but not at a strategic. And they don't see it as possible that they will considering county rivalries, etc. It's effectively part of Waterford city, but not included in town planning.

The reality is that good cooperation will be needed between the two Councils even if the move goes ahead. The extension isn't large enough to take away the need for close cooperation. There should be no reason why there cannot be good cooperation between the two. After all, this is what a similar commission proposed in relation to the Athlone/Roscommon boundary. A one-liner saying that this isn't possible due to county rivalries is hardly sufficient reasoning.

The reason that there has not been cooperation has been acknowledged as been a lack of effort on the Waterford side. They thought it would militate against the chances of a land grab if it was shown that there already was cooperation in the affected area. So much for Waterford having the interest of the people in mind. This along with their proposal to shut the existing area office shows the truth. Waterford Council is debt ridden and not in a position to improve services.

holyhead

The logical thing to do is make County Waterford begin at the river Suir. So what is the railway station is in County Kilkenny. On what practical level does it matter. This thing of counties crossing rivers and occupying a small bit of land is farcical. You have this situation in Athlone and Carlow town.

robbok

Ireland already has WAY too many councils , why does Dublin need 4 ? 
Why do the smaller counties have their own at all ? 
There really should be no more than 4 councils for the whole of Ireland. One for the Dublin area and one for the rest of Leinster, one each for Munster and  Connacht /Ulster combined . Each administrative area is catering for approx  1-1.2 million people , The duplication of functions by 31 councils is crazy. there is no reason we cannot still have the same number of Councillors but streamline the other council functions . I know there would be mad parochial arguments over where the bigger council would actually sit but all that can be sorted out ( most Councillors would probably love the increase in expenses :-) 
We used to have 61 bodies administering the SUSI grants and it made obvious sense to streamline that into one body , the same is true of all the other council functions , in a tiny country like this , do we really need 31 different library boards !!!
That way the county boundaries can stay exactly as they always were and arguments like this thread are moot.

road_high

robbok wrote: »

Ireland already has WAY too many councils , why does Dublin need 4 ? 
Why do the smaller counties have their own at all ? 
There really should be no more than 4 councils for the whole of Ireland. One for the Dublin area and one for the rest of Leinster, one each for Munster and  Connacht /Ulster combined . Each administrative area is catering for approx  1-1.2 million people , The duplication of functions by 31 councils is crazy. there is no reason we cannot still have the same number of Councillors but streamline the other council functions . I know there would be mad parochial arguments over where the bigger council would actually sit but all that can be sorted out ( most Councillors would probably love the increase in expenses :-) 
We used to have 61 bodies administering the SUSI grants and it made obvious sense to streamline that into one body , the same is true of all the other council functions , in a tiny country like this , do we really need 31 different library boards !!!
That way the county boundaries can stay exactly as they always were and arguments like this thread are moot.

Well then let's do that- I'm all for merging Kilkenny with the rest of Leinster as one Council, the province Kilkenny is part of, historically, economically and socially. That would create a level playing field for all, not the current proposal which is a ridiculous game of one up man ship and oppurtunism with zero costs savings (as the so called "Independent" report committee have already admitted).

Stopitwillya

blackcard wrote: »

The majority of people in the area want it to remain in County Kilkenny.

This is definetly not true. Without a doubt if there was a vote amongst the people who would be actually affected by the proposed boundary change the vast majority of them would vote to be part of Waterford. Most of Ferrybanks many housing estates is made up of Waterford people who have moved across the bridge and bought houses in the area.

road_high

Stopitwillya wrote: »

This is definetly not true. Without a doubt if there was a vote amongst the people who would be actually affected by the proposed boundary change the vast majority of them would vote to be part of Waterford. Most of Ferrybanks many housing estates is made up of Waterford people who have moved across the bridge and bought houses in the area.

Oh right so Waterford people moved to Kilkenny and want to stick a waterford sign over their new address...if the services were so awful and lacking, why would they move there?
It's a free country, if living in Waterford means something to you live under that local authority. No point moving outside of there and not being happy it's "not Waterford".

CalamariFritti

As someone who is neither from Waterford nor from Kilkenny but living in Waterford, this seems a lot of emotional and irrational poppycock. I mean who gives a ****, seriously?

road_high

CalamariFritti wrote: »

As someone who is neither from Waterford nor from Kilkenny but living in Waterford, this seems a lot of emotional and irrational poppycock. I mean who gives a ****, seriously?

Indeed but this non sense certainly was never iniatated by the Kilkenny "side".

Yourself isit

road_high wrote: »

Indeed but this non sense certainly was never iniatated by the Kilkenny "side".

You are the ones that care though. If that part of Kilkenny is a dormitory for Waterford and the people there are happy to be in Waterford it shouldn't mean anything to you.

Dunmoreroader

You're right Road_high; the editorial line of the Kilkenny People, the various pronouncements if Messrs Bobby Awlyard TD, JP Phelan TD, Cllr.Ger Frisby etc...so measured and reasonably argued.🙄

Stopitwillya

road_high wrote: »

Oh right so Waterford people moved to Kilkenny and want to stick a waterford sign over their new address...if the services were so awful and lacking, why would they move there?
It's a free country, if living in Waterford means something to you live under that local authority. No point moving outside of there and not being happy it's "not Waterford".

People living in housing estates such as Belfield, the beeches, Aylesbury, etc already view there estates as being in Waterford. Even though the present boundary says different.
Personally think it's much ado about nothing. What should be more important is that something is done with the Ferrybank Shopping Centre before it gets further rundown.
What's your view on the Ferrybank Shopping centre Road High?

Fairdues

McGaggs wrote: »

May I ask why anyone would care?

To be fair, county loyalties/rivalries are always very strong, no matter which county people live in. It always seems to be that those closest to the border are particularly adamant, one way or the other. I would imagine that Kilkenny people being told they are now in Waterford, would not go down well, especially for people whose family have lived in a particular county for generations, supported a county team for generations and so on.

FrankCummins

Why with Waterford are they on about Ferrybank shopping centre when it is in Co Kilkenny they don't seem to see the ghettoes around Waterford city which were built during the boom and are no go areas now, that hotel on the hill is a disgrace it has layed idle there for years.
Did Dunnes stores not pull out of that shopping centre can people in glass houses throw stones god bless ye down there they seem to think so.Have the Dubs tried to put there flag over Ashbourne no because they have respect to where they are.

gw80

FrankCummins wrote: »

Why with Waterford are they on about Ferrybank shopping centre when it is in Co Kilkenny they don't seem to see the ghettoes around Waterford city which were built during the boom and are no go areas now, that hotel on the hill is a disgrace it has layed idle there for years.
Did Dunnes stores not pull out of that shopping centre can people in glass houses throw stones god bless ye down there they seem to think so.Have the Dubs tried to put there flag over Ashbourne no because they have respect to where they are.

Hahahahaha,😂 "ghettos, no go areas" GTFO.
What are you talking about, you.are getting a bit carried away with yourself there,
Jurys hotel straddles the boarder so doing anything with it would be a logistical nightmare having to deal with two councils, even so someone has just bought it so there may be progress on that site soon enough,
Maybe if your going to make comments on the matter you should probably educate yourself first in the history and the dynamics of the area first,
Either that or your just taking the piss,


"Ghettos"😊 good one.

FrankCummins

gw80 wrote: »

Hahahahaha,😂 "ghettos, no go areas" GTFO.
What are you talking about, you.are getting a bit carried away with yourself there,
Jurys hotel straddles the boarder so doing anything with it would be a logistical nightmare having to deal with two councils, even so someone has just bought it so there may be progress on that site soon enough,
Maybe if your going to make comments on the matter you should probably educate yourself first in the history and the dynamics of the area first,
Either that or your just taking the piss,


"Ghettos"😊 good one.

The type of reply you would expect from down there, I suppose what you are used to living in you except it as part of the course.

Supra lover 87

Talk about this for years but will never happen. Just leave it the way it is.

gw80

FrankCummins wrote: »

The type of reply you would expect from down there, I suppose what you are used to living in you except it as part of the course.

Your cracking me up, really

Gaspode

I'll just leave this here....

Waterford armed forces bombard Kilkenny rebels in battle for Ferrybank/

Autosport

So nothing is changing

FrankCummins

gw80 wrote: »

Your cracking me up, really

You must really be cracking up with what the minister said last night.