Gutter cleaner purposely damages roof to con my mam out of €450!

cormie

I got a call from my mam the other day who had almost given the go ahead to a Gutter and Roofing company to repair some loose ridge tiles on the roof that they showed her after they came to clean her gutters.

She got a leaflet in the door offering gutter cleaning for €49 and booked them to come. 3 guys came and started to get to work, next thing they are bringing her out to show her how the ridge tiles at the top of the roof are loose. It's an Apex roof and the tiles at the top are nowhere near the gutters. They showed her how some of the concrete holding them are loose and they said they could fix it that day for €450! She said she had no money so they came down to €300 and she said ok, but she rang me just incase and put me on the phone to the guy.

He was explaining what was wrong and that they could fix it for €300 today. I told him without being able to see what's wrong, I don't want my mam agreeing on something she doesn't know anything about and that he could take some photos, send them to her email and then I can have a look and if we want to go ahead, we can phone him back. He then started saying that it wouldn't be €300 next time that it's only €300 because he's there now and that it wouldn't be worth his while coming to do it next time for €300 after taking diesel and wages into consideration. I reminded him that he came to do a job for €49, so surely a job for €300 would be far more lucrative and he said it was only €49 because he was in the area so I said we can ring and get a price from you and if we want to go ahead then we can and for now just to leave it so he said ok.

I rang my mam back then a few minutes later and they had left by that stage and she gave them the €49 for the gutters. I told her what I was saying to him and she said that she got a flyer in the door offering it for €49 and she told me the name of the company and their website says they do it for €49 too, so it's not that they were just in the area that they could do it for €49. They also told her if she wanted them back again, it would be €400 to fix the roof, I told her she could book them for the gutter cleaning at €49 again and then get them to repair the roof for €300 and it'd be €51 cheaper than the €400 :rolleyes:

Anyway, while on the phone to her I started looking at their site and they portray themselves as having two offices, one on the Northside and the other on the Southside, but the addresses don't have any unit numbers or anything like that, it just states the business park names, but looking at these business and enterprise parks, they appear to be more silicone valley/fortune500/tech related business campuses rather than somewhere you'd find a gutter company. After a bit of digging, I think I've found 3 different guises for the same guys, all operating under different company names with different websites of similar traits,

I called to my mam since and she pointed the loose tiles to me, well I had a look and then I checked every other house I could see on the estate from where I was (at least 10, all the same and built at the same time) and none of them had the same tiles loose and only 2 or 3 of my mams were loose, so I'm pretty sure they got there and while cleaning the gutters, one of them got up and purposely loosened the tiles. It would take about 40 minutes between mixing concrete, patching it and cleaning up after to fix the loose tiles for one man, they were telling my mam it would be about 3 hours work for the 3 of them.

With there being 3 of them, cleaning a gutter for €49 is never going to be worth the time getting there, cleaning, insurance, wages etc, so I've a bad feeling that they are making their money by conning people like my mother on a daily basis.

As it is now, my mam has paid €49 and at least got the gutters cleaned, but I'm positive they damaged her roof at the same time. I'd like to demand they come back and fix it, but I don't want any trouble for my mam so thinking it might be best just to leave it, but then there's the knowledge that they are probably out there conning vulnerable people again and again ;(

Any advice or suggestions would be great!

h2005

Report them. I'd be pretty sure this is an ongoing scam. Could you mix some roof grout and refix the couple of tiles yourself? I wouldn't be inviting them back.

NickNickleby

First thing is to ascertain if the roof is now missing ridge tiles as that would probably allow rainwater in and cause a lot more damage.

I've had the pleasure of dealing with some of these "Roofing and Gutter" companies. All very professional looking, but jerry-builders to say the least. If these are the same people stay away from them. My ones had a habit of calling me "Boss".

ASk the neighbours if they know any reliable builders, someone is bound to have had this done before. Failing that, use Google.

my3cents

cormie wrote: »

...

As it is now, my mam has paid €49 and at least got the gutters cleaned, but I'm positive they damaged her roof at the same time. I'd like to demand they come back and fix it, but I don't want any trouble for my mam so thinking it might be best just to leave it, but then there's the knowledge that they are probably out there conning vulnerable people again and again ;(
....

Until you've been up on a ladder and checked yourself I wouldn't be making that statement.

cormie

Thanks folks, yup, I was trying to tell my mam only to use people she's been recommended. I mean with every house on the estate being built the same way, surely somebody has got somebody for every little thing that needs doing.

Definitely won't be getting these guys back to give them any more money, I don't want to have any future hassle for my mam and this is the worst part, that they probably get away with it in fear of such things.

I wouldn't feel too comfortable up on a roof myself and don't have a ladder high enough to get up either, so if anyone has any recommendations for someone in South Dublin/North Wicklow, please share

spurious

They may well return to check if she wants anything else done. AFAIR there was a crowd of them caught in the act out Raheny way in the last couple of years. I'll see can I find the link, but it would be sweet if they came back and she called the cops to catch them.

my3cents

Double check your mams security next time you are over and without raising alarm see if you can find out what else she said to these guys. They are unlikely to be sort of people that you tell that the house is empty because you go to mass or are out to pick up a pension on certain days, if you know what I mean.

spurious

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/roofer-convicted-of-scamming-3-000-from-woman-84-1.2497046

I knew I had seen a report about it.

Riesen_Meal

spurious wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/roofer-convicted-of-scamming-3-000-from-woman-84-1.2497046

I knew I had seen a report about it.

I actually know this woman as I legitimately did work in her home, such a lovely woman for it to happen to, these scumbags don't care and will prey on the elderly at every opportunity that they can, I'm not saying it's the same guys involved but I'm sure it's one of their "cousins"....

JustAThought

This is the oldest scam in the book.

Now it also comes with a false online presence.

How many thousands of people are going to be robbed & cheated before people cop on?

I can't believe you are even vaguely entertaining this.

+ Do you remember a similar scam and the deportations that happened from Australia with an Irish gang who decided to take this common one trick
Pony on holidays with them to Oz?

Ring the local gaurds, if one exists, and tell them elderly vulnerable people are being pressure sold and badgered at their doors for no cool off period roofing jobs. Ask them if they could cruise around in their cars. ( laughs knowing the gaurds - but you may be lucky).

In the meantime tell
You mom to say a firm NO and imply her sons will look after it later. And don't let anyone back up on that roof to look at r fix or finish anything. Next thing you will have a slip & compo claim on your hands - oldest roofing scam #2.

Do They do tarmac too? #3...

Alun

Our neighbour had someone in to clean his gutters recently, although god knows why, they're all bungalows with easy access and he's fit enough to do it himself. Anyway, they do the job and then tell him that there's some cement missing from the edges of the tiles either side of a lead gully between the main roof and a dormer over the front bedroom. He had it done but then of course my doorbell rang and they were trying to persuade me to have this job done too. I had a good look at our roof, the other neighbour's roof and the opposite neighbours too, and there wasn't any sign of any cement ever being in there let alone having fallen out. Guy claimed we'd get leaks when it rains, which is patently not the case, so I told him to get on his bike. I don't think he managed to fool anyone else in the street.

Harry Angstrom

Talk To Joe 1850 715 815

PMBC

JustAThought wrote: »

This is the oldest scam in the book.

Now it also comes with a false online presence.

How many thousands of people are going to be robbed & cheated before people cop on?

I can't believe you are even vaguely entertaining this.

+ Do you remember a similar scam and the deportations that happened from Australia with an Irish gang who decided to take this common one trick
Pony on holidays with them to Oz?

Ring the local gaurds, if one exists, and tell them elderly vulnerable people are being pressure sold and badgered at their doors for no cool off period roofing jobs. Ask them if they could cruise around in their cars. ( laughs knowing the gaurds - but you may be lucky).

In the meantime tell
You mom to say a firm NO and imply her sons will look after it later. And don't let anyone back up on that roof to look at r fix or finish anything. Next thing you will have a slip & compo claim on your hands - oldest roofing scam #2.

Do They do tarmac too? #3...

Tell them to hold on a minute while she phones her son, 'the guard'; then phone the local Garda Station. What about community protection scheme.

cbreeze

The Gardai have cards and leaflets just for this kind of scam attempt. They are for handing out to people who come to your house looking for work. They are yellow with the Garda logo, and ask the person to leave their contact details and that the householder will contact them if they require their services. the householder is then advised to close the door and not engage with them.

I got one or two and then requested more for my 90 year old aunt (who has been scammed by tarmac layers). The local Community Garda came round with them.

I had a gutter scam a couple of years ago:

Man who got out of a large SUV: I was doing some work for your neighbour there and I noticed your gutters were overflowing. We can do the job for your for €50.
Me: no thanks.
I checked with the neighbour later on and he said they tried this on with him and he ran them.

Always use local reputable tradesmen for any work you need doing and never let strangers near your house.

ED E

Take a picture of their reg plate, very quickly deters the scummers.

Delacent

When the roof is done, they'll offer some carpet and of course they can also do the driveway cos they have some tarmac left from another job.

At Christmas they spin down to their relatives in Rathkeale and they are regulars at ballinasloe horse fair.

Utter scum.

madmaggie

ED E wrote: »

Take a picture of their reg plate, very quickly deters the scummers.

Not worth a damn, in my experience. They, or some of their mates will be around again in another vehicle. I found some of these gentlemen on my roof one day after I came home from town. I phoned the guards, gave the reg, waste of time.

I have let it be known to these type of 'tradesmen' that I am legally licenced owner of a firearm, and know how to use it. There haven't been that many around lately, funny that. :rolleyes:

kbell

It's pretty easy to tell the difference of a tile which has been loose for a length of time from a tile which has "suddenly" become loose,due to the weathering around it.
Anyone who has experience with roofs, tv,satellite people etc.. can tell you this.

the_pen_turner

Take a pic and let us tell you

frank8211

I have at least circumstantial evidence that the Australian scammers are back in business here, but in a much more sophisticated way. I had a gutter job done recently and looked for a firm to do it that would be respectable and well established. One with a website, and addresses in two business parks looked very solid. They agreed to take a cheque but on the day insisted on cash (in bad way to settle suppliers and staff for the holidays etc). Lo and behold the receipt book was empty. Since then they have failed to issue a receipt or guarantee. It now transpires that they are not listed as tenants on the websites of either business park. It also transpires that there is a resemblance - cant be sure - between the main man on the team and one of the people photographed in connection with the Australian scam. So now they are duping people into giving them work by possibly using fake business park addresses to give the impression of a solid operator Any advice from fellow boards members about what to do to highlight this

cormie

My sister sent me a screenshot she took of some post on facebook with someone holding up a flyer of another roofing and guttering co, looks kinda similar, but they don't appear to have a website, but same kinda thing on the flyer including a "30% discount for senior citizens" 30% is a huge amount to just wildly give as a discount so guessing they might be trying to attract these most of all, ****ing horrible if so.

I looked up the name and there's a similarly names place down the South West and the website and set-up is again similar, but the whois at least has a full address, but the address from a Google is a bit of a notorious one and brings back results connected with brawls at christenings etc.

I don't know, from what I've seen and all the stories here, just seems like there's loads doing the same thing.

Tow

cormie wrote: »

they portray themselves as having two offices, one on the Northside and the other on the Southside, but the addresses don't have any unit numbers or anything like that, it just states the business park names,

This brings back memories, this was on the their flyer?

Run by a youngish lad who dresses on work gear, without a mark/stain on them and gives the hard sell. A few years back they did a job for a neighbors and wanted to do my house... I tracked them down to his registered office address, AKA his home address, which is an apartment.

kathleen37

Just had similar today visited my Mum. Wanted to charge €450 to "wash the roof" - they had a leaflet, with only a mobile tel number on it, no company name/address etc.

Mum said no she would need to speak to me, and they said they would come back tomorrow. Mum is nearly 80 so I'm worried now if they do come back.

She's on her own during the day till I get back from work, and we're very rural. Would she be better just not answering the door if they return?

Samuel T. Cogley

Print up a label an put it on the door.

We do not buy and sell at this door. Do not knock, please go away.
Failure to comply with this polite request will result in an immediate call to the local Garda Barracks.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Print up a label an put it on the door.

We do not buy and sell at this door. Do not knock, please go away.
Failure to comply with this polite request will result in an immediate call to the local Garda Barracks.

That was fine until the piece about calling the Gardaí. People would just laugh at that. And the Gardaí wouldn't come just because someone knocked on your door.

Samuel T. Cogley

Brayden Plain Theoretician wrote: »

That was fine until the piece about calling the Gardaí. People would just laugh at that. And the Gardaí wouldn't come just because someone knocked on your door.

See section 10 Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act.

The guards are there to follow up on crimes. The sign makes it obvious the person does not want to be disturbed satisfying the intention/recklessness requirement of the Act.

The guards will be all too happy to respond to a OAP who has people knocking on the door looking to work, as they probably have a list of other issues they need to discuss and I suspect the people concerned would rather not take the risk, not least given the low probability of the van being taxed or insured.

Persistently has been held to be a single continuous act in a previous case.

SteoL

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

See section 10 Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act.

The guards are there to follow up on crimes. The sign makes it obvious the person does not want to be disturbed satisfying the intention/recklessness requirement of the Act.

The guards will be all too happy to respond to a OAP who has people knocking on the door looking to work, as they probably have a list of other issues they need to discuss and I suspect the people concerned would rather not take the risk, not least given the low probability of the van being taxed or insured.

Persistently has been held to be a single continuous act in a previous case.

Ah come on Sam. The Gardai barely come for serious crimes like burglary or assault, they'll hardly come for a knock on the door.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

See section 10 Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act.

The guards are there to follow up on crimes. The sign makes it obvious the person does not want to be disturbed satisfying the intention/recklessness requirement of the Act.

The guards will be all too happy to respond to a OAP who has people knocking on the door looking to work, as they probably have a list of other issues they need to discuss and I suspect the people concerned would rather not take the risk, not least given the low probability of the van being taxed or insured.

Persistently has been held to be a single continuous act in a previous case.

I am an OAP in a rural area and I know when the Gardaí react and how long it takes to respond from a part time station 18 miles away when the car is quite a distance the other side of the station.

kathleen37

Thanks for the replies.

We don't want to antagonise anyone, so if they come back, I'll just say to Mum to not open the door.

frank8211

absolutely. People, and elderly people in particular should be very sparing about answering the door to strangeers. I may well have an encounter with the same people. Id be interested to hear any specifics

Atlantic Dawn

Never ever conduct business at your front door with anyone, best advice to avoid scams of all kinds.