Who asked the British to 'protect' our airspace from the Russians or anyone else ?

darkpagandeath · 13-02-2017 11:39pm

Jawgap wrote: »

We're a bit behind the Brits, the French and the Germans......but not that far.....

Yes a Tiny unit of the Garda.... Where them the lads enda was sending to the ATM's ? Actually surprised they did not send them to get PM out of bed that time.

FrancieBrady · 13-02-2017 11:45pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who said it would stop that ?

Why have two multi billion pound air forces doing the same job? We have no other use for one.
We have an arrangement that is clearly working. The British wouldn't do it if it wasn't in their own interests.

Jawgap · 13-02-2017 11:46pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes a Tiny unit of the Garda.... Where them the lads enda was sending to the ATM's ?

That's just a few lads from one of the ASUs, there's also the ERU (which is a member of the ATLAS Network of special police units in Europe)

......and as I said, in response to the facile idea that militarisation of the police wasn't happening in Ireland, we are behind a lot of other countries, but it doesn't mean it's not happening.

darkpagandeath · 13-02-2017 11:49pm

Jawgap wrote: »

That's just a few lads from one of the ASUs, there's also the ERU (which is a member of the ATLAS Network of special police units in Europe)

......and as I said, in response to the facile idea that militarisation of the police wasn't happening in Ireland, we are behind a lot of other countries, but it doesn't mean it's not happening.

lol. :pac:

darkpagandeath · 13-02-2017 11:50pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why have two multi billion pound air forces doing the same job? We have no other use for one.
We have an arrangement that is clearly working. The British wouldn't do it if it wasn't in their own interests.

British troops on Irish soil bad... British jets in the sky's helping good...

maryishere · 13-02-2017 11:53pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have an arrangement that is clearly working. The British wouldn't do it if it wasn't in their own interests.

Why not Francie? They do not have the bitterness for us that you have for them. They have helped us out on numerous occasions when it was solely in ours or others interests over the years / had nothing to do with them.

darkpagandeath · 13-02-2017 11:55pm

maryishere wrote: »

Why not Francie? They do not have the bitterness for us that you have for them. They have helped us out on numerous occasions when it was solely in ours or others interests over the years / had nothing to do with them.

I wondering when I am expecting to be gunned down on the streets by belligerent Militarised Garda. :eek:

FrancieBrady · 13-02-2017 11:55pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

British troops on Irish soil bad... British jets in the sky's helping good...

It makes a nice change? There is no threat to sovereignty when we agree stuff with them.
I'm sure the unionists would get squeakier bums if we started muscling up though.
Think 1969, Jack Lynch, if we had had air cover, anything was possible.

Maybe we should!

Jawgap · 13-02-2017 11:59pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I wondering when I am expecting to be gunned down on the streets by belligerent Militarised Garda. :eek:

I'm not sure where you get belligerent from?

Militarisation =/= belligerence.

You said militarisation of the police wasn't happening in Ireland, you were provided with evidence and now you're twisting it on to something else in some ridiculous effort to deflect.

darkpagandeath · 14-02-2017 12:01am

Jawgap wrote: »

I'm not sure where you get belligerent from?

Militarisation =/= belligerence.

You said militarisation of the police wasn't happening in Ireland, you were provided with evidence and now you're twisting it on to something else in some ridiculous effort to deflect.

Having a response to a situation is not Militarisation. En mass like the USA would be. Every Garda station does not have a SWAT team or RIOT Police or Armed Response. Some will have RIOT gear.

darkpagandeath · 14-02-2017 12:02am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It makes a nice change? There is no threat to sovereignty when we agree stuff with them.
I'm sure the unionists would get squeakier bums if we started muscling up though.
Think 1969, Jack Lynch, if we had had air cover, anything was possible. Maybe we should!

How many do we have in the Republic to get Squeaky bums ?

FrancieBrady · 14-02-2017 12:11am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How many do we have in the Republic to get Squeaky bums ?

Unionists in the north would be very uncomfortable if we built a multi billion pound air force.
Which is what would be required to adequately do the job of protecting from a random attack. The entire US air force was useless on the day it was attacked.

I think we should understand that the British need to protect THEIR area of interest and continue to be non belligerent, non imperialist members of the world.
It has worked perfectly fine in the face of bigger threats than IS.

Jawgap · 14-02-2017 12:12am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Having a response to a situation is not Militarisation. En mass like the USA would be. Every Garda station does not have a SWAT team or RIOT Police or Armed Response. Some will have RIOT gear.

Ok, your mixing up public order and armed support units.

The guys on the right of the photo I posted are sporting HK416 carbines - which may be more quickly recognised as a variant of the AR-15, in other words assault weapons more usually seen in the hands of soldiers. Likewise, the MP7s the other two have fire body-armour piercing rounds......

......don't get me wrong, if the cops have to pull a weapon I'd prefer if they had the biggest gun at the fight, but weapons that fire high velocity rounds are military weapons......police weapons for obvious tactical reasons tended to fire heavier, lower velocity rounds.

And that's even before you get to considering the rest of their tactical gear including the combat pattern helmet.

Reati · 14-02-2017 12:17am

Stars and Stripes wrote: »

And the British and French were going to beat the Nazi's in no time and the war would be over by Xmas Funny enough Adolf invaded a few smaller countries such as Greece, Yugoslavia etc and it took a lot more than 48 hours. Sure that war criminal Churchill could have resurrected the Black and Tans to put some manners on Paddy , only problem was, with a British invasion the German's might have took the chance to give the British a good ar$e kicking again like they did in Norway.

You're assuming we would have fought back... Pretty sure we would have let them take over for our common defence benefits.

FrancieBrady · 14-02-2017 12:21am

When 3 jets hit targets on 9-11.

darkpagandeath · 14-02-2017 12:21am

Jawgap wrote: »

Ok, your mixing up public order and armed support units.

The guys on the right of the photo I posted are sporting HK416 carbines - which may be more quickly recognised as a variant of the AR-15, in other words assault weapons more usually seen in the hands of soldiers. Likewise, the MP7s the other two have fire body-armour piercing rounds......

......don't get me wrong, if the cops have to pull a weapon I'd prefer if they had the biggest gun at the fight, but weapons that fire high velocity rounds are military weapons......police weapons for obvious tactical reasons tended to fire heavier, lower velocity rounds.

And that's even before you get to considering the rest of their tactical gear including the combat pattern helmet.

So you expect the Irish defence force to be a buffer for civilian threats ? Soldiers have no jurisdiction in such matters. The Garda need these capabilities. You cant send in the Military to arrest drug dealers or go after Gangs. That's madness and would lead to chaotic scenes in the dail. Unfortunately even In Ireland the Bad Bad guys have guns and AK 47s as seen in Dublin. Sure even down in Limerick some lad was running round with an AK in a housing estate was he not ?

darkpagandeath · 14-02-2017 12:22am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When 3 jets hit targets on 9-11.

Jets were scrambled a airliner was shot down.

FrancieBrady · 14-02-2017 12:27am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Jets were scrambled a airliner was shot down.

Air defences of the worlds superpower were useless in preventing the loss of almost as many people that were killed in our 40 year conflict.

So much for multi trillion defence spending.

darkpagandeath · 14-02-2017 12:29am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Air defences of the worlds superpower were useless in preventing the loss of almost as many people that were killed in our 40 year conflict.

So much for multi trillion defence spending.

So don't bother having a military or defence ? They were not useless they prevent further deaths. You advocating shooting down those plans already in a area of mass human habitation ? That could have lead to even more deaths than that was caused by the air strikes ?

FrancieBrady · 14-02-2017 12:35am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So don't bother having a military or defence ? They were not useless they prevent further deaths. You advocating shooting down those plans already in a area of mass human habitation ? That could have lead to even more deaths than that was caused by the air strikes ?

Not what I said.
We have an arrangement with a multi billion pound air defence, which sees our air space as THEIR area of interest.
Why would we need to spend what would have to be similar money for a single use?

Reati · 14-02-2017 12:47am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Jets were scrambled a airliner was shot down.

Your tinfoil is showing

darkpagandeath · 14-02-2017 12:59am

Reati wrote: »

Your tinfoil is showing

Yes the evidence shows there was none shot down.

Gatling · 14-02-2017 1:03am

Just looking at coasts Canada was recently offered 65 Saab Gripens multirole fighters for 6bn with maintenance and parts included ,
Not a bad deal ,

We would end up paying twice that for for 1980s hand me downs by some minister thinking we would be getting something amazing,

What's slightly ironic about us relying on the RAF for protection the RAF are reliant on the US ,Canada and France (if I'm correct) for dedicated maritime patrol aircraft since they never replaced the aincient Nimrod

prinzeugen · 14-02-2017 1:15am

Gatling wrote: »

Just looking at coasts Canada was recently offered 65 Saab Gripens multirole fighters for 6bn with maintenance and parts included ,
Not a bad deal ,

We would end up paying twice that for for 1980s hand me downs by some minister thinking we would be getting something amazing,

What's slightly ironic about us relying on the RAF for protection the RAF are reliant on the US ,Canada and France (if I'm correct) for dedicated maritime patrol aircraft since they never replaced the aincient Nimrod

The Nimrod was being replaced.. With another Nimrod. Best plane for the job.

The **** Blair left the UK in meant it was scrapped along with the Harrier overnight.

There are pictures of the brand new airframes being scrapped.

darkpagandeath · 14-02-2017 1:18am

prinzeugen wrote: »

The Nimrod was being replaced.. With another Nimrod. Best plane for the job.

The **** Blair left the UK in meant it was scrapped along with the Harrier overnight.

There are pictures of the brand new airframes being scrapped.

Who made the deal with the Americans for the stupidly expensive F35s ?

prinzeugen · 14-02-2017 1:29am

maryishere wrote: »

The agreement referred to here? http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/raf-tornado-jets-could-shoot-down-hijacked-planes-in-irish-airspace-414646.html?utm_source=recirc&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=recirc

There must be truth in that as they agreed that Tornados would shoot down planes.

The RAF retired the Tornado F3 many, many years ago.

Also I remember people being warned about low flying RAF jets here about 10 years ago.

They were doing familiarisation training of Irish terrain to aid QRA missions should the get the call.

Fratton Fred · 14-02-2017 1:37am

prinzeugen wrote: »

There must be truth in that as they agreed that Tornados would shoot down planes.

The RAF retired the Tornado F3 many, many years ago.

Also I remember people being warned about low flying RAF jets here about 10 years ago.

They were doing familiarisation training of Irish terrain to aid QRA missions should the get the call.

I remember something similar being discussed a good few years ago.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055843459/1

Jawgap · 14-02-2017 6:42am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So you expect the Irish defence force to be a buffer for civilian threats ? Soldiers have no jurisdiction in such matters. The Garda need these capabilities. You cant send in the Military to arrest drug dealers or go after Gangs. That's madness and would lead to chaotic scenes in the dail. Unfortunately even In Ireland the Bad Bad guys have guns and AK 47s as seen in Dublin. Sure even down in Limerick some lad was running round with an AK in a housing estate was he not ?

Oh, stop deflecting. I've already said I've no problem with them being the best armed people in an armed confrontation. You denied there was militarisation of the police, now you seem accept that there is - that they now have capabilities that previously and exclusively resided with the military.

And yes the Defence Forces can and do assist the Garda - it's called their "Aid to the Civil Power" mission......and it was that type of support that allowed a single Guard to arrest an entire SAS team.......

Maximus Alexander · 14-02-2017 11:26am

You'd think the Irish government could spring for a handful of older F16s or something. As an island nation it's pretty pathetic that we don't have even a token air defense.

jimgoose · 14-02-2017 11:33am

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

You'd think the Irish government could spring for a handful of older F16s or something. As an island nation it's pretty pathetic that we don't have even a token air defense.

Well, in fairness there is a "token" effort - the little Pilatus PC-9M aircraft carry 2.75'' rockets and a couple of .50-cal FN machine-guns.

Who asked the British to 'protect' our airspace from the Russians or anyone else ?

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