Who asked the British to 'protect' our airspace from the Russians or anyone else ?

LordSutch

Stars and Stripes wrote: »

Best post on the thread by far
http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b513/dmc017/Online/chase_zpsj50nnwxr.png

I posted something similar myself, but without the visual aid
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102580625&postcount=77

darkpagandeath

Don't forget all the Drones, Been loads of occasions. Obama visit, Queen, NI with the G8 and alike. Was it not reaper and protector drones.

bear1

To be fair lads... there is a harrier parked at the back of someone's house in meath if we ever need it..

Gatling

bear1 wrote: »

To be fair lads... there is a harrier parked at the back of someone's house in meath if we ever need it..

There's a buccaneer painted in desert camo in Weston airfield

We're up to 2 jets

bear1

Gatling wrote: »

There's a buccaneer painted in desert camo in Weston airfield

We're up to 2 jets

Where did we get that?
I just did a check on the planes the air corps have had.
We had vampire jets which had a top speed of almost 900kph.
Then we had fouga magisters which had a speed of over 700 and a near 1k range.
the pc9s..... just over 500.
Why they felt the need to drop half the speed and ditch jet propulsion I don't know.
If they insist on keeping old looking planes could they not simply reinstate the vampires and fougas?
Surely it wouldn't cost too much to get them back to service.
Mind you the fougas haven't been used since 98.

Gatling

bear1 wrote: »

Where did we get that?

It's privately owned former RAF I believe ,
Dropping jets for turbo props was all about cost and reliability ,
You could buy a preowned fighter for a million but add in maintaining and fuel and parts and training your adding 10+ million per yer per aircraft (im open to correction on that )

This country doesn't like spending on defense and the military equipment

bear1

If we reduced our foreign aid then maybe it would be doable.

Gatling

bear1 wrote: »

If we reduced our foreign aid then maybe it would be doable.

First place I would start considering its been used by some countries to boost their own military capabilities.

topmanamillion

We cant even protect our own fish stocks from Spanish fishing boats, I wouldn't hold out much hope for us against one of the worlds largest armies.

darkpagandeath

Gatling wrote: »

First place I would start considering its been used by some countries to boost their own military capabilities.

Ha, Did some land locked country not buy Naval jets in Africa ? With our money.

topmanamillion

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Ha, Did some land locked country not buy Naval jets in Africa ? With our money.

It was Uganda.
They paid it back to Ireland. Seeing as it was the Ugandans themselves that flagged it up I`d no issue with it.
I do have an issue with us giving aid to a country that wanted to impose the death penalty for homosexuality but made do with life in prison instead.

Gatling

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Ha, Did some land locked country not buy Naval jets in Africa ? With our money.

Yeah ,

Maybe its time to introduce a trocraire appeal in schools for the aircorp ,
The get us Jets appeal

Meanwhile in Uganda

MiG-21 Soviet Union fighter (5)
Sukhoi Su-30 Russia multirole Su-30MKK (8) 4 on order
Transport
Cessna 208 United States utility /surveillance 2 donated by the U.S.
Helicopters
Bell 206 United States utility 7
Huey II United States multirole 5 donated by the US
Mil Mi-17 Russia utility 10
Mil Mi-24 Russia attack Mi-35 6
Trainer Aircraft
Aero L-39 Czech Republic jet trainer 6
SF.260 Italy trainer 4

darkpagandeath

Gatling wrote: »

Yeah ,

Maybe its time to introduce a trocraire appeal in schools for the aircorp ,
The get us Jets appeal

Meanwhile in Uganda

MiG-21 Soviet Union fighter (5)
Sukhoi Su-30 Russia multirole Su-30MKK (8) 4 on order
Transport
Cessna 208 United States utility /surveillance 2 donated by the U.S.
Helicopters
Bell 206 United States utility 7
Huey II United States multirole 5 donated by the US
Mil Mi-17 Russia utility 10
Mil Mi-24 Russia attack Mi-35 6
Trainer Aircraft
Aero L-39 Czech Republic jet trainer 6
SF.260 Italy trainer 4

We sent them something like 64m did we not. The same year they spent what 740m on military hardware.

Gatling

darkpagandeath wrote: »

We sent them something like 64m did we not. The same year they spent what 740m on military hardware.

They apparently repaid the government 4 million ,
5 times bigger than Ireland and yet we're financially supporting them ,

Can we have the Su-30MKK2 Flanker we paid for instead

darkpagandeath

Gatling wrote: »

They apparently repaid the government 4 million ,
5 times bigger than Ireland and yet we're financially supporting them ,

Can we have the Su-30MKK2 Flanker we paid for instead

Better than a raptor with all it's problems including lack of oxygen.

Junkyard Tom

Kinda weird that Irish people masturbate furiously to this whole NATO v Russia thing. Oddballs.

bear1

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Kinda weird that Irish people masturbate furiously to this whole NATO v Russia thing. Oddballs.

Is it a porno?

Noddyholder

Don't know why we cant stand up & be part of NATO or some sort of European air defence Battalion ? We could have French, Germany Belgian air squadrons here, & will the brits still protect our sky's when they pull out of bretix ?

This playing the neutral card is a joke imo, especially as when you chk out that we were neutral on one side of the war only.

LordSutch

Noddyholder wrote: »

Don't know why we cant stand up & be part of NATO or some sort of European air defence Battalion ? We could have French, Germany Belgian air squadrons here, & will the brits still protect our sky's when they pull out of bretix ?

This playing the neutral card is a joke imo, especially as when you chk out that we were neutral on one side of the war only.

We should have bought all the old RAF Harriers when they sold them off a few years ago. They could have done everything, from landing on trawlers to attacking suspicious drug carrying yachts! ...cool

PS How's Dave Hill?

Noddyholder

LordSutch wrote: »

We should have bought all the old RAF Harriers when they sold them off a few years ago. They could have done everything, from landing on trawlers to attacking suspicious drug carrying yachts! ...cool

PS How's Dave Hill?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Hill


For those of you Younger folk, Noddy holder was the lead singer of Slade, You can here me sing every Christmas...


Back on topic, yes LS we should have but the successive Irish government's would rather dig there heads in the sand over this & let the Brits do the minding.

There is no way we could afford fighter jets with the maintence etc etc & God forbid if we crashed one, it would bankrupt us.

bear1

LordSutch wrote: »

We should have bought all the old RAF Harriers when they sold them off a few years ago. They could have done everything, from landing on trawlers to attacking suspicious drug carrying yachts! ...cool

PS How's Dave Hill?

It's only a matter of time before the government has little choice but to go back to jet propulsion.
Playing the we've no money card won't an excuse once the pc9 become beyond obsolete.

bear1

Noddyholder wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Hill


For those of you Younger folk, Noddy holder was the lead singer of Slade, You can here me sing every Christmas...


Back on topic, yes LS we should have but the successive Irish government's would rather dig there heads in the sand over this & let the Brits do the minding.

There is no way we could afford fighter jets with the maintence etc etc & God forbid if we crashed one, it would bankrupt us.

We need to look at this in another way.
Defence budget has 900 million a year but a lot of it is pension money so hardly should be counted as the defence budget.
Reduce our aid and there is a good chunk of money that can be allocated.
What's ireland's overall current account?
Instead of flat out buying them then lease them out with a deal including ammo and maintenance built into the contract.
We were offered such a deal years ago and declined it.
Or lease nothing, sign up to nato and Base their aircraft here.
I wonder how the eu will feel about a non member (once they leave the eu) defending European airspace..

Noddyholder

The Irish Government has often used the excuse that since we are such a small country we can’t afford to spend money equipping our air corps with jets. Yet figures show that other countries with similar or smaller GPD per head can afford them.

Ireland has a GDP/per head of €42,547. By comparison, Finland, which is not in Nato, has a population slightly ahead of ours at 5.5m and a GPD/per head of €35,742. It has 127 jet fighters. We have none. Austria, which is also not a Nato member, has a population of 8.6m, a GDP of €33,900 per head, and 15 jet fighters.

Countries which are Nato members have the following number of fighters: Belgium (57) Denmark (47), Norway (57), and Portugal (30).

Countries of comparable population and national income to Ireland have an average of 8.6 combat aircraft per million population.

The Government doesn’t have to buy Typhoons like the ones scrambled by the British to intercept the Russian bombers to be effective, especially as they cost over €70m each. Jets are available much cheaper.

If the Government wants to penny-pinch, it could buy the Czech-made Aero L159 or ex-Korean AF BAE Hawks.

The L159 is a subsonic aircraft with similar speed to an airliner, but, critically, it can go much higher than commercial aircraft, is faster than the Russian TU95, and has an integrated radar.

If we wanted something a bit more prestigious, the KAIT50-Golden Eagle fighters could be picked up for €20m each.

However, it’s estimated in some military circles that an €80m investment in the air corps would be sufficient to provide the force with proper jets and radar defence capabilities.

For this, it could get six jets, all auxiliary equipment, support services, armaments, and proper ground radar capabilities.

Generally an air defence aircraft (interceptor fighter) should be capable of operating at high speeds and altitudes, and be equipped with suitable air-to-air weapons and sensors (radar, etc) to guide the interceptor onto its target.

Apart from the navy, Defence Forces currently rely on an archaic military radar system which has a range of 74km, while Irish Aviation Authority radar for tracking commercial aircraft has a range of 130km.

Sources within the aviation industry say it’s common for military aircraft to enter Irish-controlled airspace.

When such situations occur, aircraft usually switch off their transponders, as the Russian Bear bombers did as they tried to evade the British fighters.

They are unidentifiable on the radar screens, just emitting squawks, which show their direction and flight level.

“We should be looking at operational aircraft, because if we don’t we will be completely dependable on the British and Nato for air defence. We have very much out-of-date equipment because governments have eroded the Defence Forces,” Dr Clonan said.

“It’s very strange that we have no proper combat aircraft and the lack of them represents a training deficit for air corps pilots as well,” he said.

Taken from article in cork examiner cant post link.

TheQuietFella

Aren't we getting along just fine as we are!

I hold the belief that we couldn't afford it or maybe it's the excuse that our neighbours will look after the problem should one arise. And if one does arise what in all seriousness are we going to do about it?

All the keyboard warriors would die in their thousands!

maryishere

bear1 wrote: »

I wonder how the eu will feel about a non member (once they leave the eu) defending European airspace..

We have been sheltering under someones elses umbrella, and both begging and whinging, for a long time...even think back to ww2.

Noddyholder wrote: »

There is no way we could afford fighter jets with the maintence etc etc & God forbid if we crashed one, it would bankrupt us.

Quite right. We gave the army old rifles and what was there a few decades ago but about 16,500 claims, resulting in payouts totalling about €300m.
If we had fighter jets I doubt we could fly them or maintain them without some big balls up.

maryishere

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Aren't we getting along just fine as we are!

Until a hijacked passenger plane with a few ISIS on board start heading towards a few grounded US military planes at Shannon, or O'Connell st during the St. Patricks day parade.

TheQuietFella

maryishere wrote: »

Until a hijacked passenger plane with a few ISIS on board start heading towards a few grounded US military planes at Shannon, or O'Connell st during the St. Patricks day parade.

You've just let the cat out of the bag!!

But back to reality, the country isn't that big in scale and any potential threat however ridiculous sounding as those suggested above would be dealt with comprehensively by her Majesty's RAF.

AndyBoBandy

At least if they do attack, Putin will have the decency to do the dirty deed himself

maryishere

TheQuietFella wrote: »

any potential threat however ridiculous sounding as those suggested above would be dealt with comprehensively by her Majesty's RAF.

I suppose over the generations they have been used to rescuing our sailors and those in distress at sea, out of the range of our own services. Looking after us is nothing new to them, they are good neighbours.

TheQuietFella

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

At least if they do attack, Putin will have the decency to do the dirty deed himself

The Russians are going to attack us???
They'll annex Munster and make Cork it's capital!
Now that would start a real revolution!!!