Who asked the British to 'protect' our airspace from the Russians or anyone else ?

bear1

maryishere wrote: »

But an agreement should not be so one sided that one side is providing a service and the other side is not paying for it? The agreement may be from the days when the UK and IMF bailed us out, but now the country is more prosperous again, surely its only manners we should offer to pay towards the service, or else do it ourselves?

Think of some of the comments people are currently making, the taxpayers in the UK who are paying for the monitoring and defence of Irish airspace:
There are those in the UK who say ( and I quote):
"Latvia, Lithuania etc are members of NATO, and contribute financially and materially to the common defence of the NATO alliance, Ireland does not, they are effectively freeloading off the UK taxpayer whose labour helps to fund the RAF they are apparently relying on to defend their skies."

"Instead of allowing the Irish to ponce off our resources, we should offer them some kind of deal to sell surplus Eurofighters or even armed BAe Hawk aircraft so that they can do the job themselves, if not, they ought to pay a contribution to cover the costs of any UK military assets they want to defend them."

"I would agree if they agreed to pull their weight, but I dislike the idea of Britain and its people being taken advantage of, especially by a country whose national identity is in large part defined by its historical antipathy towards HM Armed Forces."

"Ireland’s GDP per capita is higher than that of the UK. Sure they could afford to defend themselves properly if the political will was there, they just can’t be arsed, especially when they’ve got someone else next door who is willing to do it for them, even though the average income of those paying for it is considerably less ($55,000 vs $41,000 per capita)."

"They hate us. Apparently. They hate the British. They don’t want to be a part of the UK. They have encouraged and supported terrorist attacks against mainland Britain in the past. Now our armed forces. The same armed forces they have murdered in an attempt to get the “Brits out” are now expected to assist in their defence? Spitting feathers doesn’t even come close!"

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-air-force-asked-defend-ireland/

So you've got the proof that this deal includes no financial support from the government?

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

But an agreement should not be so one sided that one side is providing a service and the other side is not paying for it? The agreement may be from the days when the UK and IMF bailed us out, but now the country is more prosperous again, surely its only manners we should offer to pay towards the service, or else do it ourselves?

Think of some of the comments people are currently making, the taxpayers in the UK who are paying for the monitoring and defence of Irish airspace:
There are those in the UK who say ( and I quote):
"Latvia, Lithuania etc are members of NATO, and contribute financially and materially to the common defence of the NATO alliance, Ireland does not, they are effectively freeloading off the UK taxpayer whose labour helps to fund the RAF they are apparently relying on to defend their skies."

"Instead of allowing the Irish to ponce off our resources, we should offer them some kind of deal to sell surplus Eurofighters or even armed BAe Hawk aircraft so that they can do the job themselves, if not, they ought to pay a contribution to cover the costs of any UK military assets they want to defend them."

"I would agree if they agreed to pull their weight, but I dislike the idea of Britain and its people being taken advantage of, especially by a country whose national identity is in large part defined by its historical antipathy towards HM Armed Forces."

"Ireland’s GDP per capita is higher than that of the UK. Sure they could afford to defend themselves properly if the political will was there, they just can’t be arsed, especially when they’ve got someone else next door who is willing to do it for them, even though the average income of those paying for it is considerably less ($55,000 vs $41,000 per capita)."

"They hate us. Apparently. They hate the British. They don’t want to be a part of the UK. They have encouraged and supported terrorist attacks against mainland Britain in the past. Now our armed forces. The same armed forces they have murdered in an attempt to get the “Brits out” are now expected to assist in their defence? Spitting feathers doesn’t even come close!"

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-air-force-asked-defend-ireland/

Those in the UK need to be told what you are: the British are defending an area that is THEIR interest.

Where is this agreement by the way? I haven't seen it or it's terms.

maryishere

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Who Hates us Mary?

According to the link, The IRA hate the British. No surprise there. Visit any pub in a Republican area when England are playing and hear the comments.

TheQuietFella

Turn off Sky News Mary and go for an occasional walk!

We are not going to be attacked or invaded by anyone.



We still owe billions to those who are standing by to 'protect' us so maybe

in all reality they are really holding out for their return.

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

According to the link, The IRA hate the British. No surprise there. Visit any pub in a Republican area when England are playing and hear the comments.

You should have seen my local there during the French-Scotland game. We must HATE the French too.
You will be studied in years to come Mary.

maryishere

TheQuietFella wrote: »

We are not going to be attacked or invaded by anyone.

Not when we are effictively defended by the UK, same as we were in WW2 and the cold war. Interesting though that Isis have included Ireland on a list of nations they claim are a 'coalition of devils' against the terror group.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/islamic-state-include-ireland-on-coalition-of-devils-list-34234173.html

AndyBoBandy

maryishere wrote: »

You would not mind so if we gave them money towards the cost of them providing such a service for us...seems only manners, like? It may make the likes of Google, Intel etc feel safer here, not to mention the US jets at Shannon.

It's in their benefit to protect us, not ours, so yes, I would mind paying them for what they have to do to protect themselves

Barry Badrinath

maryishere wrote: »

Not when we are effictively defended by the UK, same as we were in WW2 and the cold war. Interesting though that Isis have included Ireland on a list of nations they claim are a 'coalition of devils' against the terror group.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/islamic-state-include-ireland-on-coalition-of-devils-list-34234173.html

Please try to stay up to date if you are going to use links as "evidence" to support your weak arguments.

Ireland is not a target on IS's radar anymore.

kingchess

Just curious but if the British planes did not bother to follow the Russian planes around Irish airspace-totally ignored them-what would be the result?how would it affect Ireland?(cant be bothered to read the whole thread)

bear1

kingchess wrote: »

Just curious but if the British planes did not bother to follow the Russian planes around Irish airspace-totally ignored them-what would be the result?how would it affect Ireland?(cant be bothered to read the whole thread)

Wed have loaded up the pc9s and Seamus would have been screaming "g'way ta ****"

bear1

maryishere wrote: »

Not when we are effictively defended by the UK, same as we were in WW2 and the cold war. Interesting though that Isis have included Ireland on a list of nations they claim are a 'coalition of devils' against the terror group.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/islamic-state-include-ireland-on-coalition-of-devils-list-34234173.html

Seems pointless debating with you.

maryishere

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Ireland is not a target on IS's radar anymore.

I showed you a link where we were one of 60 countries on their list. What link have you to show otherwise / that we were taken off the list?

Timberrrrrrrr

maryishere wrote: »

According to the link, The IRA hate the British. No surprise there. Visit any pub in a Republican area when England are playing and hear the comments.

So a few neanderthals hate the British but the way you are talking it's the whole nation!

Jawgap

maryishere wrote: »

I showed you a link where we were one of 60 countries on their list. What link have you to show otherwise / that we were taken off the list?

We're not a target because we've nothing 'iconic' - striking here gets them nothing, we're not a centre of power, Dublin isn't a 'world' city and there's no international institutions based here (none of consequence anyway).

BorneTobyWilde

Russia or US could land grab Ireland, Would US defend us if Russia invaded , maybe before Trump they would have, now not so sure. Trump would tell us to defend ourselves. Russia are slowly land grabbing, they have done it forever. They are creeping west acre by acre .

maryishere

Jawgap wrote: »

We're not a target because we've nothing 'iconic' - striking here gets them nothing, we're not a centre of power, Dublin isn't a 'world' city and there's no international institutions based here (none of consequence anyway).

Muslim extremists do not always target "international institutions ". I admit the risk is low, but over the next few decades I will image ISIS or like minded people may hit soft targets. Would would have thought the twin towers attack would happen? Now there is an attack or attempted attack in Europe very frequently.
A plane crashing in to an American plane at Shannon or a Google or Intel or Microsoft building would grab headlines worldwide.

riffmongous

maryishere wrote: »

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/royal-air-force-asked-defend-ireland/

Yeah not sure I'd be too worried about the people making comments from that website

They also have highest taxes, and lowest return for taxes. However, given that the indigenous, heritage Irish are being replaced 1,000 per week by jihadugees, the country towns are increasingly islamified, and the hospitals run by moslems of questionable qualification or competence, the water is ‘owned’ by saudi arabia, and Etihad now code shares with Aer Lingus, giving ME pre clearance for the USA, who do you think will be flying those jets!

maryishere

I suppose if you nit pick from hundreds of posters / comments, you get something like the above, although I did not see that particular comment.

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

I suppose if you nit pick from hundreds of posters / comments, you get something like the above, although I did not see that particular comment.

:D:D:D

Seriously, do you have this agreement you clearly have seen?

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D:D

Seriously, do you have this agreement you clearly have seen?

The agreement the Healy Raes have to provide plant hire for the new secret military airport in Kerry? . T'is secret, boy. :D:D:D:D

FrancieBrady

maryishere wrote: »

The agreement the Healy Raes have to provide plant hire for the new secret military airport in Kerry? . T'is secret, boy. :D:D:D:D

No, the agreement you referenced between the Irish and UK govs.

maryishere

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, the agreement you referenced between the Irish and UK govs.

I never saw it, or claimed to have seen it, but if its good enough for the Examiner...
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/raf-tornado-jets-could-shoot-down-hijacked-planes-in-irish-airspace-414646.html

Jawgap

maryishere wrote: »

Muslim extremists do not always target "international institutions ". I admit the risk is low, but over the next few decades I will image ISIS or like minded people may hit soft targets. Would would have thought the twin towers attack would happen? Now there is an attack or attempted attack in Europe very frequently.
A plane crashing in to an American plane at Shannon or a Google or Intel or Microsoft building would grab headlines worldwide.

Lone wolves attaching themselves, rather than being recruited, hit targets of opportunity......ISIS are, like all terrorist organisations, interested in the "propaganda of the deed" - there's no propaganda value to striking a damp Atlantic island on the edge of Europe

Fratton Fred

kingchess wrote: »

Just curious but if the British planes did not bother to follow the Russian planes around Irish airspace-totally ignored them-what would be the result?how would it affect Ireland?(cant be bothered to read the whole thread)

They fly through Irish controlled airspace, criss crossing commercial air lanes, without their transponders on and without logging a flights path, so it becomes difficult for Irish Air traffic control to monitor them and for commercial airlines to see them.

The RAF typically send up two Typhoons to shadow them, with their transponders on so their whereabouts can be tracked. Before entering UK airspace the Norwegian Air Force do the same and then the French take over when they hit their area of control.

It's a game and because of the various air forces, there is no real danger.

kingchess

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They fly through Irish controlled airspace, criss crossing commercial air lanes, without their transponders on and without logging a flights path, so it becomes difficult for Irish Air traffic control to monitor them and for commercial airlines to see them.

The RAF typically send up two Typhoons to shadow them, with their transponders on so their whereabouts can be tracked. Before entering UK airspace the Norwegian Air Force do the same and then the French take over when they hit their area of control.

It's a game and because of the various air forces, there is no real danger.

If there is no real danger then just ignore them?.if commercial aircraft cant see them but they can see commercial aircraft they will avoid them unless they are suicidal?

maryishere

maryishere wrote: »

I suppose if you nit pick from hundreds of posters / comments, you get something like the above, although I did not see that particular comment.

Er, that's what you exactly did from that particular website and then proceeded to attack the Irish stance on neutrality using it as some sort of back up.

AndyBoBandy

kingchess wrote: »

If there is no real danger then just ignore them?.if commercial aircraft cant see them but they can see commercial aircraft they will avoid them unless they are suicidal?

ATC still need to know where they are, hence the various air forces shadowing them with transponders on.

They also probably don't want to rely on the Russians keeping themselves clear of civilian AC.

Jawgap

kingchess wrote: »

If there is no real danger then just ignore them?.if commercial aircraft cant see them but they can see commercial aircraft they will avoid them unless they are suicidal?

2 jets cruising have a closure rate of about 1200 kph - at 20 nm (the best visibility you could hope for) that gives pilots about 60 seconds to spot the opposite aircraft, discern their intentions and react accordingly......

......once they've done that they can go clean their jocks

darkpagandeath

Jawgap wrote: »

Lone wolves attaching themselves, rather than being recruited, hit targets of opportunity......ISIS are, like all terrorist organisations, interested in the "propaganda of the deed" - there's no propaganda value to striking a damp Atlantic island on the edge of Europe

Really ? The damage a lone would could do here in Dublin for example before being killed would be insane. Remember we are white infidels.

AndyBoBandy

kingchess wrote: »

If there is no real danger then just ignore them?.if commercial aircraft cant see them but they can see commercial aircraft they will avoid them unless they are suicidal?

https://youtu.be/P7DygPsJ_sA

https://youtu.be/qLVtstYAZLY