Amendments to penalty point structure - what changes would you make?

Commotion Ocean

Imagine you have been asked by the Gardaí and RSA, you have been given a carte blanche to abolish or ammend one penalty point offence of your choice and to introduce a new one of your choice. What would you do?

I would amend the speeding one:
I wold introduce a rule whereby speeding only attracts penalty points for exceeding the speed limit by 10%+10km/h for N and M roads for all other roads, the motorist has to be 10 km/h over.

It's very easy to slip over the speed limits, especially on certain roads if you're focused on the road ahead of you rather than having your eyes on the speedometer all the time. Slipping a few 4 or 5 km/h over the limit happens to everyone, so don't pretend you never do it

I'd introduce a specific penalty point offence of not keeping left when not overtaking on a M or N road. This will be an on-the-spot 3 penalty point offence, or 6 if disputed in court.

What would you change / abolish or introduce and why?

Steve

First time - 0 points.

After that sliding scale to a ban.

I'd rather see the courts tackle the scroats with 100 previous burglary and drugs convictions before hammering (in relative terms, innocent) motorists.

Seth Brundle

Inappropriate lane usage

freshpopcorn

Failure to wear your seatbelt would result in six penalty points and a thirty day driving ban for first offence.
From articles I've read online and even the programme on TV the other night the amount of fatal accidents that involve people not wearing seat belts are far to high.

irishgeo

Id make it a penalty point offence for cars with bulbs gone or incorrect use of fog lights.

Isambard

kbannon wrote: »

Inappropriate lane usage

100 points......

Pete67

Aftermarket HID kit, 3 points for first offence, 6 points for second offence.

amcalester

dfeo wrote: »

Imagine you have been asked by the Gardaí and RSA, you have been given a carte blanche to abolish or ammend one penalty point offence of your choice and to introduce a new one of your choice. What would you do?

I would amend the speeding one:
I wold introduce a rule whereby speeding only attracts penalty points for exceeding the speed limit by 10%+10km/h for N and M roads for all other roads, the motorist has to be 10 km/h over.

It's very easy to slip over the speed limits, especially on certain roads if you're focused on the road ahead of you rather than having your eyes on the speedometer all the time. Slipping a few 4 or 5 km/h over the limit happens to everyone, so don't pretend you never do it

I'd introduce a specific penalty point offence of not keeping left when not overtaking on a M or N road. This will be an on-the-spot 3 penalty point offence, or 6 if disputed in court.

What would you change / abolish or introduce and why?

Hardly a speed limit then if you have built in tolerances, you'll just have people saying I was doing x kph +10% +11kph (which is a very confusing way to say I was speeding)

Topper Harley

dfeo wrote: »

I'd introduce a specific penalty point offence of not keeping left when not overtaking on a M or N road. This will be an on-the-spot 3 penalty point offence, or 6 if disputed in court.

kbannon wrote: »

Inappropriate lane usage

Isambard wrote: »

100 points......

This doesn't go far enough. This has always been a bugbear of mine but recently it has been frustrating me more and more. Years ago I suggested on here that the RSA make and ad to explain lane usage to people. Then the RSA made a very good ad. And nothing changed. People just don't care... So here's my drastic proposal:

Everyone's licence should be suspended and people's driving privilages will only be restored once they have proved they understand and will abide by correct lane usage. (I'm thinking a theory test will suffice to ensure a giant backlog doesn't develop).

Once you're back on the road, there will be mobile patrols, in tanks, who when observing anyone in an incorrect lane will immediately and permanently remove them from the road.

irishgeo

Get rid of points and back to just fines.

irishgeo wrote: »

Id make it a penalty point offence for cars with bulbs gone or incorrect use of fog lights.

It would be stupidly unfair. A bulb can blow at any time and you could come on a check point just after it happening.

SBPhoto

Parking in the opposite direction to the flow of traffic, especially at night time when some leaves their lights on, have been nearly blinded a few times.

Topper Harley

amcalester wrote: »

Hardly a speed limit then if you have built in tolerances, you'll just have people saying I was doing x kph +10% +11kph (which is a very confusing way to say I was speeding)

I think in most cases, Guards will apply common sense and allow a margin of about +10% anyway. What they could implement after that is a a €40 fine for a further +5%, then €80 and 1 penalty point for another +5% and so on with the penalty points increasing but not the fine unless it's a court summons.

SBPhoto

SBPhoto wrote: »

Parking in the opposite direction to the flow of traffic, especially at night time when some leaves their lights on, have been nearly blinded a few times.

Another very petty thing to complain about. It's often the only practical way to get a parking space.

Commotion Ocean

amcalester wrote: »

Hardly a speed limit then if you have built in tolerances, you'll just have people saying I was doing x kph +10% +11kph (which is a very confusing way to say I was speeding)

There will still be fines once the limit is exceeded, points should only kick in for exceeding the limit the way I said.

Other countries have a simile system, namely DE and NL.

iamtony

Id make speeding even by 1kph an automatic ban from driving for 1 year.
Then nobody would speed and you wouldnt have the pressure of other motorists pushing you on from behind and it wouldnt be a problem anymore.
Speeding is a pointless dangerous excercise and just gets you to the next set of lights quicker and also causes more polution and keep the demand for fuel higher thus increasing costs.

irishgeo

irishgeo wrote: »

Id make it a penalty point offence for cars with bulbs gone.

So it's midnight, you come out of the cinema in a well lit carpark flip on the lights and drive out into the well lit city. Only time you notice a bulb is goine is when you drive onto the darker roads. You think that should be a penalty point offence?


Or you are driving long distance, it gets dark and you flip on the lights but ony one comes on. Cops stop and give you points for this?

Commotion Ocean

iamtony wrote: »

Id make speeding even by 1kph an automatic ban from driving for 1 year.
Then nobody would speed and you wouldnt have the pressure of other motorists pushing you on from behind and it wouldnt be a problem anymore.
Speeding is a pointless dangerous excercise and just gets you to the next set of lights quicker and also causes more polution and keep the demand for fuel higher thus increasing costs.

Hi, Gay Byrne. Welcome to the motors forum of boards.ie.

iamtony

iamtony wrote: »

Id make speeding even by 1kph an automatic ban from driving for 1 year.
Then nobody would speed and you wouldnt have the pressure of other motorists pushing you on from behind and it wouldnt be a problem anymore.
Speeding is a pointless dangerous excercise and just gets you to the next set of lights quicker and also causes more polution and keep the demand for fuel higher thus increasing costs.

Speeding is a stupid term based on made up numbers that someone decided exceeding them were dangerous 40 years ago. Modern cars are very safe and comfortable at well in excess of our very low limits.

Also pull in and allow others to pass, not everyone has time for creeping along the road. It's not your job to enforce speed limits, I despise getting stuck behind people who think they
Who think they are in charge of enforcing the rules of the road.

iamtony

dfeo wrote: »

Hi, Gay Byrne. Welcome to the motors forum of boards.ie.

:-) it would also put go safe out of business hopefully.
Seriously though I drive Taxi and would love this. The amount of passengers who want me to speed cause they are late.

Destiny Witty Voice

Destiny Witty Voice wrote: »

Speeding is a stupid term based on made up numbers that someone decided exceeding them were dangerous 40 years ago. Modern cars are very safe and comfortable at well in excess of our very low limits.

Also pull in and allow other to pass, not everyone has time for creeping along the road.

I would disagree that speed limits are too low, in many city/town roads, given pedestrians traffic but yeah motorway speed limits would be too low if people would obey lane usage.

So yeah Lane Misuse would be much more of a point magnet.

DUBACC

Only if they review the ridiculous limits on some roads. Example is the four lane dual carriageway n11 heading into Dublin city being 60kph. Often see speed vans parked where it drops from 80 to 60 too, sneaky f**kers. Such a cash grab! Amazing when you see some small rural roads at 80 in comparison.

iamtony wrote: »

Id make speeding even by 1kph an automatic ban from driving for 1 year.
Then nobody would speed and you wouldnt have the pressure of other motorists pushing you on from behind and it wouldnt be a problem anymore.
Speeding is a pointless dangerous excercise and just gets you to the next set of lights quicker and also causes more polution and keep the demand for fuel higher thus increasing costs.

iamtony

Destiny Witty Voice wrote: »

Speeding is a stupid term based on made up numbers that someone decided exceeding them were dangerous 40 years ago. Modern cars are very safe and comfortable at well in excess of our very low limits.

Also pull in and allow others to pass, not everyone has time for creeping along the road. It's not your job to enforce speed limits, I despise getting stuck behind people who think they
Who think they are in charge of enforcing the rules of the road.

Its nothing to do with how capable the car is its more the reaction times of drivers and the limits even on new roads are selected for many reasons and they can include all sorts like the possibility of cyclists using the road or a footpath that kids could stray from.
Its a lot more complicated that most people think.
Seriously though if your in that much of a hurry you should of just left earlier.

iamtony

DUBACC wrote: »

Only if they review the ridiculous limits on some roads. Example is the four lane dual carriageway n11 heading into Dublin city being 60kph. Often see speed vans parked where it drops from 80 to 60 too, sneaky f**kers. Such a cash grab! Amazing when you see some small rural roads at 80 in comparison.

It drops to sixty probably because theres a school nearby or something.

iamtony

iamtony wrote: »

Its nothing to do with how capable the car is its more the reaction times of drivers and the limits even on new roads are selected for many reasons and they can include all sorts like the possibility of cyclists using the road or a footpath that kids could stray from.
Its a lot more complicated that most people think.
Seriously though if your in that much of a hurry you should of just left earlier.

Leaving earlier is an inefficient use of my time.

Have you ever seen a comparison in braking distance between an modern car and one from when speed limits and braking distances were set. It will open your eyes.

Pedestrians and kids should stay off the road and cyclists should keep out of the way of cars.

SBPhoto

Destiny Witty Voice wrote: »

Another very petty thing to complain about. It's often the only practical way to get a parking space.

I wouldn't call it petty when their lights are on as they can really blind you, very dangerous in fact. without the lights on is okay.

SBPhoto

Destiny Witty Voice wrote: »

Leaving earlier is an inefficient use of my time.

Have you ever seen a comparison in braking distance between an modern car and one from when speed limits and braking distances were set. It will open your eyes.

Pedestrians and kids should stay off the road and cyclists should keep out of the way of cars.

I am glad that not everybody thinks like you do.

CiniO

Gradual speeding.

0-20% over the limit - 1 penalty point.
20%-40% over the limit - 2 penaly points.
40%-60% over the limit - 4 penalty points.
60%-80% over the limit - 8 penalty points.
over 80% over the limit - disqualification.

ikeano29

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So it's midnight, you come out of the cinema in a well lit carpark flip on the lights and drive out into the well lit city. Only time you notice a bulb is goine is when you drive onto the darker roads. You think that should be a penalty point offence?


Or you are driving long distance, it gets dark and you flip on the lights but ony one comes on. Cops stop and give you points for this?

Always carry a few spare bulbs

Woodville56

Destiny Witty Voice wrote: »

iamtony wrote: »

Its nothing to do with how capable the car is its more the reaction times of drivers and the limits even on new roads are selected for many reasons and they can include all sorts like the possibility of cyclists using the road or a footpath that kids could stray from.
Its a lot more complicated that most people think.
Seriously though if your in that much of a hurry you should of just left earlier.

Leaving earlier is an inefficient use of my time.

Have you ever seen a comparison in braking distance between an modern car and one from when speed limits and braking distances were set. It will open your eyes.

Pedestrians and kids should stay off the road and cyclists should keep out of the way of cars.

I guess you're one of those drivers who overtake cars abiding by the 50/60km limits where in force ? who overtakes on continuous white lines ? who tailgates and bullies speed limit compliant
drivers out ur way if they're impeding your progress ? who blow their horns if car in front if you even dares to slow down on an orange traffic light or who isn't out the traps like a hare when green shows ? Yep, I've encountered your type regularly on our roads and ye seem to have some kind of immunity when it comes to getting caught for your careless/reckless driving ?
Last week I was tailgated by an articulated lorry in an 80km speed zone and felt so unsafe with this truck right on my tail. Eventually he must have got tired of being stuck behind me ( although I was traveling just within the allowed speed limit ) and overtook me - on a continuous white line. I didn't feel safe there, and it's a regular occurrence. Why should anyone be bullied or intimidated while driving to facilitate speeding drivers ??

SBPhoto

SBPhoto wrote: »

I am glad that not everybody thinks like you do.

It's a pity alright, understanding the physics of speed and breaking would be very helpful to those making the rules.

Woodville56

CiniO wrote: »

Gradual speeding.

0-20% over the limit - 1 penalty point.
20%-40% over the limit - 2 penaly points.
40%-60% over the limit - 4 penalty points.
60%-80% over the limit - 8 penalty points.
over 80% over the limit - disqualification.

I'm inclined to agree with the above - 3 penalty points for a first time offense of a minor infringement (10-15% over limit) seems harsh. And despite their supposed discretion , I've known penalty points issued for 8km over the allowed speed limit.

Woodville56

Destiny Witty Voice wrote: »

SBPhoto wrote: »

I am glad that not everybody thinks like you do.

It's a pity alright, understanding the physics of speed and breaking would be very helpful to those making the rules.

Must remember that for the Garda or Judge if I ever get done for speeding !

Woodville56

Woodville56 wrote: »

I guess you're one of those drivers who overtake cars abiding by the 50/60km limits where in force ? who overtakes on continuous white lines ? who tailgates and bullies speed limit compliant
drivers out ur way if they're impeding your progress ? who blow their horns if car in front if you even dares to slow down on an orange traffic light or who isn't out the traps like a hare when green shows ? Yep, I've encountered your type regularly on our roads and ye seem to have some kind of immunity when it comes to getting caught for your careless/reckless driving ?
Last week I was tailgated by an articulated lorry in an 80km speed zone and felt so unsafe with this truck right on my tail. Eventually he must have got tired of being stuck behind me ( although I was traveling just within the allowed speed limit ) and overtook me - on a continuous white line. I didn't feel safe there, and it's a regular occurrence. Why should anyone be bullied or intimidated while driving to facilitate speeding drivers ??

I never overtake in continuous white line (bar cyclists or tractors which everyone does) but the rest probably. Slowing down for an amber light is a particlur pet hate for me, amber to me means drop and gear and floor it. People's behaviour around traffic lights in general in very annoying, most people are half asleep rather then being stuck to the car in front and getting through as quickly as possible.

Woodville56

Destiny Witty Voice wrote: »

SBPhoto wrote: »

I am glad that not everybody thinks like you do.

It's a pity alright, understanding the physics of speed and breaking would be very helpful to those making the rules.

Must remember that for the Garda or Judge if I ever get done for speeding !

Zaph

Using a mobile phone when the vehicle is in motion (the actual phone to the ear or texting, as opposed to hands-free) will, in addition to the current points and fine, result in the phone being confiscated by the Gardaí for two weeks. Get caught a second time and the phone goes under a road roller. Actually for texting the roller gets used for the first offence, fcuking idiotic thing to be doing while you're driving.

CalamariFritti

Penalties points depending on the severity of the offence. For example speeding.

10% over the speed limit, no points, €30.
25% over, 3 points, €80.
50% over, 4 points €200.
75% over, 6 points €500.
100% over, 12 points, one year ban.

Similar with drink driving

No insurance, 6 points, €1000.
Repeat offence. 12 points, €1000, one year ban, no exception.
Repeat offence, €3000, 3 year ban, no exception.
3rd repeat offence, 1 year prison, 5 year ban, no exception, not suspended.

Caught driving while suspended. Current suspension reset and doubled.
Repeat offence ^.

Maybe needs a bit of tweaking, just written down in like 3 minutes, but something along those lines.

Woodville56

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Penalties points depending on the severity of the offence. For example speeding.

10% over the speed limit, no points, €30.
25% over, 3 points, €80.
50% over, 4 points €200.
75% over, 6 points €500.
100% over, 12 points, one year ban.

Similar with drink driving

No insurance. 12 points, one year ban, no exception.
Repeat offence, 3 year ban, no exception.
2nd repeat offence, 1 year prison, 5 year ban, no exception, not suspended.

I'd agree with the above with the exception of drink driving - I rarely ever agree with Minister Shane Ross but I'm with him on the 0% alcohol when driving proposal . The stats are there - drinking & driving causes accidents / fatalities

shar01

For anyone done for tailgating who has recently passed their driving test, I'd also name and shame the driving instructor.

K.Flyer

Driving with No Insurance should be a minimum of 8 points and minimum of 6 month ban.
Get caught again within a 5 year period from the date of same offence, the car gets seized and if you cannot prove you have correct cover it gets crushed with no room for appeal.

Woodville56

K.Flyer wrote: »

Driving with No Insurance should be a minimum of 8 points and minimum of 6 month ban.
Get caught again within a 5 year period from the date of same offence, the car gets seized and if you cannot prove you have correct cover it gets crushed with no room for appeal.

I wonder if the Garda did a sustained nationwide blitz on uninsured drivers and the law amended to put them of the road for a defined period , would the cost of motor insurance for compliant drivers fall ? At least the insurance companies always blame the high level of uninsured for the cost of car insurance here ? Ban uninsured and call their bluff ?

SBPhoto

Woodville56 wrote: »

I guess you're one of those drivers who overtake cars abiding by the 50/60km limits where in force ? who overtakes on continuous white lines ? who tailgates and bullies speed limit compliant
drivers out ur way if they're impeding your progress ? who blow their horns if car in front if you even dares to slow down on an orange traffic light or who isn't out the traps like a hare when green shows ? Yep, I've encountered your type regularly on our roads and ye seem to have some kind of immunity when it comes to getting caught for your careless/reckless driving ?
Last week I was tailgated by an articulated lorry in an 80km speed zone and felt so unsafe with this truck right on my tail. Eventually he must have got tired of being stuck behind me ( although I was traveling just within the allowed speed limit ) and overtook me - on a continuous white line. I didn't feel safe there, and it's a regular occurrence. Why should anyone be bullied or intimidated while driving to facilitate speeding drivers ??

Couldn't have said it better myself, exactly what i was thinking, Too many of these aggressive drivers on the roads

Woodville56

shar01 wrote: »

For anyone done for tailgating who has recently passed their driving test, I'd also name and shame the driving instructor.

I've once called the company named on the truck that tailgated me - they were apologetic and said they would speak to the driver. As I see their trucks on my journey regularly , I told them next time it happens to me I will be passing the details to the gardai. Tailgating always makes me nervous , it's not that I drive slowly but it seems some would happily bully me into exceeding speed limit or pulling if the road so that they can get there faster

amcalester

dfeo wrote: »

There will still be fines once the limit is exceeded, points should only kick in for exceeding the limit the way I said.

Other countries have a simile system, namely DE and NL.

Fair enough, I didn't realise fines would still be applicable under your suggestion.

Can we apply this retrospectively so my 61kph in a 50 is wiped?

Woodville56

Is it just me or does anyone else feel stupid driving at limit in 50-60km/hr zone any everything else whizzing past at higher speeds ? Accepted , some of those lower speed limits seem too low but if it's signposted 50km or 60km ? Easy revenue collection points for the Garda more like

iamtony

Woodville56 wrote: »

Is it just me or does anyone else feel stupid driving at limit in 50-60km/hr zone any everything else whizzing past at higher speeds ? Accepted , some of those lower speed limits seem too low but if it's signposted 50km or 60km ? Easy revenue collection points for the Garda more like

Exactly my point! If it was a no tolerance approach everyone would be obeying the limit and you wouldn't feel forced to speed up to the next red traffic light for no reason except the feeling you are progressing faster.

ikeano29

ikeano29 wrote: »

Always carry a few spare bulbs

So stop on the motorway hard shoulder when a bulb blows, or a dangerous country road?

iamtony

I think its a case of experience which way you go on this. I'd bet the guys here thinking its OK to break amber lights and overtake when the driver ahead is on the limit haven't had the experience of crazy insurance hikes because you've had a tip. The last time I had a small crash in the sboe of 2009/2010 my premium went from €1200 a year to €5000 1st year €4700 2nd year €4000 3rd yes and so on and let me tell you that puts road manners on you very fast.

K.Flyer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So stop on the motorway hard shoulder when a bulb blows, or a dangerous country road?

In some other countries it the law that you must carry spare bulbs and if stopped by police you go to a nearest lay-by or service station and change them.

JPF82

Taking a Snapchat or Selfie while driving on your owns in the car. 6 Penalty points.

Taking a Snapchat of your kids while driving. 12 points on the spot.

I have friends who do this regularly. Nuts.

Comhrá

ikeano29 wrote: »

Always carry a few spare bulbs

And a tool kit to remove the bumper or other parts to access the blown bulb? On a wet night on the side of the road?

Comhrá

driving while wearing earphones - 2 penalty points.