Is this age discrimination?

jty0yt

So there's a hotel/spa/restaurant near my home and it's known that if you're under 18 you won't be allowed in, they also ask this at the gate.
Now I presume that they don't have a club license so therefore they can't refuse entry if you're under 18, that would be age discrimination right?

CPTM

Isn't it their property and so their right to allow whoever they want onto it?

jty0yt

CPTM wrote: »

Isn't it their property and so their right to allow whoever they want onto it?

That's true but the law states that you can do that as long as you aren't discriminating against them, I.E not letting them in because of their age/sex/religion

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

If they have. good reason to discriminate, its legal - most likely the activities are not open to minors. But this is simple age-restricton, not discrimination. Cinemas are required to do it for certain movies, as are pubs at certain times.

njs030

jty0yt wrote: »

That's true but the law states that you can do that as long as you aren't discriminating against them, I.E not letting them in because of their age/sex/religion

This is one of those laws you've been told isn't it?
On private property it's up to the owner to decide who is welcome for whatever reason he/she decides is warranted.

Quazzie

jty0yt wrote: »

That's true but the law states that you can do that as long as you aren't discriminating against them, I.E not letting them in because of their age/sex/religion

Can you quote which law this is so I can show it to the people who stop me walking into the ladies showers at my local gym.

Winterlong

You are trying to argue that all 'no children allowed' rules are age discriminatory?

jty0yt

Turns out Section 3 Subsection 3 of the Equal Status Act, 2000 states "Treating a person who has not attained the age of 18 years less favourably or more favourably than another, whatever that other person's age, shall not be regarded as discrimination on the age ground."

So you can discriminate based on age if one is under 18.. thats odd.

jty0yt

Winterlong wrote: »

You are trying to argue that all 'no children allowed' rules are age discriminatory?

Yes I was 😂 I'm over 18 myself but I just wanted to find out more about it

nhunter100

jty0yt wrote:

So you can discriminate based on age if one is under 18.. thats odd.

If alcohol is served on the premises you can refuse entry to under 18's.

Peregrinus

Actually, jty0yt is correct, up to a point. The law in question is the Equal Status Act.

Under section 5 of the act "a person shall not discriminate in disposing of goods to the public generally or a section of the public or in providing a service . . .". So if you're running a hotel, for example, that's the provision of a service and you may not discriminate. "Discrimination" happens where one person is treated less favourably than another person on the grounds of gender, marital status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the traveller community. So if you admit the person who is over 18 while turning away the person who is under 18, your treating the second person less favourably than the first on the grounds of age; that's discrimination.

But. (There's always a but.)

While the Act does lay down a general rule that you may not discriminate in the providing goods or services, it also creates many, many exceptions - circumstances where discrimination, or particular kinds of discrimination, are permitted. One of the exceptions (set out in section 3(3)) says that affording less favourable treatment to people on the grounds that they are under 18 is not unlawful. Another, in section 5(g), allows the provision of separate toilet, changing facilities etc to people of different genders.

njs030

jty0yt wrote: »

Turns out Section 3 Subsection 3 of the Equal Status Act, 2000 states "Treating a person who has not attained the age of 18 years less favourably or more favourably than another, whatever that other person's age, shall not be regarded as discrimination on the age ground."

So you can discriminate based on age if one is under 18.. thats odd.

Why do you think it's odd? Most people would find it more odd if children were allowed the same entry rights as adults given their lack of understanding and safety concern.

jty0yt

notjustsweet wrote: »

Why do you think it's odd? Most people would find it more odd if children were allowed the same entry rights as adults given their lack of understanding and safety concern.

Its the premise that just because you're x age that you can be discriminated against. The law says you can be so that's the way it is. I know it may seem petty but I just wanted to know

Delacent

jty0yt wrote: »

Yes I was 😂 I'm over 18 myself but I just wanted to find out more about it

Someone under 18 is a child.

They cannot be held responsible for many things and the duty of care for allowing unaccompanied children is quite substantial.

Separately, for licenced premises (maybe others too) they may set an age limit and refuse entry to anyone under that set limit as long as they apply it to all people. So a pub can have an age limit of 35 and legally not allow someone under 35 on the premises, but it must apply equally to all people, so no-one under 35 could be admitted in that case.

stevek93

What would a minor be doing at a hotel/spa

jty0yt

stevek93 wrote: »

What would a minor be doing at a hotel/spa

They could be getting a facial!!

stevek93

jty0yt wrote: »

They could be getting a facial!!

Ehhh Ok.. Go elsewhere maybe?

njs030

jty0yt wrote: »

Its the premise that just because you're x age that you can be discriminated against. The law says you can be so that's the way it is. I know it may seem petty but I just wanted to know

You're missing the point though op. It's not about x age it's because under 18s are children, not legally allowed to drink and the premises sell alcohol. They've obviously decided not to let anyone in at all rather than relying on bar staff to check ID.
Perfectly legal and protecting their licence.

It's quite important you see the whole story rather than homing in on what you see as discrimination as it makes sense when you look at it fully.

AndrewJRenko

notjustsweet wrote: »

On private property it's up to the owner to decide who is welcome for whatever reason he/she decides is warranted.

That's not true.

Sleeper12

jty0yt wrote:

That's true but the law states that you can do that as long as you aren't discriminating against them, I.E not letting them in because of their age/sex/religion

Have you ever been to a teen dance /Disco? There always an age limit. Must be 12 or 14 or 16 etc. Facebook I think the limit is 12. Cinema, leisure centres. None of this is discrimination. It's a major selling point to some adults knowing that children won't be allowed in.

njs030

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's not true.

Erm....the thread shows it is? In terms of the ops question of age.
Did you just jump on my post rather than read further....oh dear.

AndrewJRenko

notjustsweet wrote: »

Erm....the thread shows it is?

Erm, the Equal Status Acts kinda trump the thread;

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/blind-nun-wins-discrimination-case-against-pub-1.1185227

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/travellers-awarded-4500-in-pub-discrimination-case-26037919.html

njs030

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Erm, the Equal Status Acts kinda trump the thread;

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/blind-nun-wins-discrimination-case-against-pub-1.1185227

http://www.thejournal.ie/travellers-jd-wetherspoon-london-2110143-May2015/

Read the thread. All of it.

jty0yt

The question was answered a while back by myself (the OP) haha. I didn't read the equality act fully and it does state that age based discrimination doesn't apply to unde 18's

nhunter100

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Erm, the Equal Status Acts kinda trump the thread;

Erm... if alcohol is served on a premises, said operators have a right to refuse entry to under 18's. Not discrimination it's actually child protection.

AndrewJRenko

notjustsweet wrote: »

Erm....the thread shows it is? In terms of the ops question of age.
Did you just jump on my post rather than read further....oh dear.

The OPs question of age is not the point that I responded to.

Did you just jump on my post rather than read further? Oh dear....

Delacent

jty0yt wrote: »

So there's a hotel/spa/restaurant near my home and it's known that if you're under 18 you won't be allowed in, they also ask this at the gate.
Now I presume that they don't have a club license so therefore they can't refuse entry if you're under 18, that would be age discrimination right?

What's a "club" licence?

If they sell alcohol for consumption on the premises, then they have a licence to sell and serve alcohol for consumption on the premises.

Please don't suggest that because they don't have a night club that a different "licence" with different rules applies. The license is the same, only difference is clubs apply for an extension to the serving time of their licence, but it does not change any of the key regulations of the licence.

Sleeper12

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Erm, the Equal Status Acts kinda trump the thread;

None of the links have anything to do with children?
Did I miss something?

AndrewJRenko

Sleeper12 wrote: »

None of the links have anything to do with children?
Did I miss something?

Yes, you missed the point. Read the post that I pointed out was not true - which also has nothing to do with the age of children.

nhunter100

AndrewJRenko wrote:

The OPs question of age is not the point that I responded to.

You didn't respond to anything, you just said 'thats not true' without offering an explanation as to what was not true.

Sleeper12

Ops question is about age yet everyone seems to be talking about discrimination of adults